the low lifes are stealing gas from me!

[mozeppa]

twice in 2 nights back to back 2 months ago ...gotta lock gas cap ...this time they cut through the rubber hose from the goose neck to the tank ...each time they got 25 gallons.


whats a decent infrared trail camera that is easy to use with emphasis on very clear pictures

motion detected ...but doesn't break the bank.

[ShooterAZ]

I got a pretty decent one from Cabelas about a year ago. I think it was somewhere around $80. There are cheaper ones out there though, starting around $40. A good investment though, especially if it helps you nab the thieves.

[bob208]

hook a electric fence controller to your truck. I did that to my shop and they have not broke in again.

[kungfustyle]

Cheaper than 25 gallons a few times...Get the camera and lock it down.

[Petrol & Powder]

For 25 gallons they must have a vehicle nearby, if not right there. I would recommend two trail cams, one in a position to get a license plate number and another to capture faces.

For the license plate cam you want a choke point, like a narrow spot in a driveway that that have to pass through slowly and in the center of the lane.

The second camera should be low and point up, not high and point down. A simple baseball cap brim will defeat a high mounted camera. The best setup would be a small camera with an infrared illuminator and a motion sensor near the gas tank and triggered by a motion sensor.

The camera must be well hidden or they'll just steal the camera too.

[Walks]

Bed your Rottweiler down in the seat of your vehicle and leave the window down.

[osteodoc08]

For 25 gallons they must have a vehicle nearby, if not right there. I would recommend two trail cams, one in a position to get a license plate number and another to capture faces.

For the license plate cam you want a choke point, like a narrow spot in a driveway that that have to pass through slowly and in the center of the lane.

The second camera should be low and point up, not high and point down. A simple baseball cap brim will defeat a high mounted camera. The best setup would be a small camera with an infrared illuminator and a motion sensor near the gas tank and triggered by a motion sensor.

The camera must be well hidden or they'll just steal the camera too.


Agree with this and add a camera facing the camera. They’ll steal the first one. Add 2 more facing the camera in a triangle.

[Omega]

Just place one of these where they can only trigger it when approaching your tank. I put magnets behind my sensor so I can just stick it on any metal surface. I also put some tape over the led light and painted it brown to blend in better.

https://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-driveway-alert-system-93068.html
228041

[Dieselhorses]

I have a series of perimeter alarms installed down my driveway, some hi-tek, some not so hi-tek.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Rock salt is so light that it usually doesn't work too well unless you power the round with Black Powder, is the rumor I've heard.

And I've never really liked rock salt as a concept; If it was a LEO walking up to your vehicle, say looking for a blood trail from someone who'd attacked someone, and you step out with a 12Ga loaded with rock salt, you can become a STATISTIC. Shotgun's a lethal weapon, IDK if we civilians are too wise using it for non lethal purposes? Just a consideration. (Plus if you hit someone in an eye with a chunk of rock salt, the civil law suit could be BAD. Don't know how rock salt patterns, should look into that - Oh great, ANOTHER project!)

I do like the Passive Infrared (PIR) alarm idea though; I was thinking of another alarm that's possible, they make capacitive sense alarms (so a human walking near your vehicle will set it off.) PIR works though! Maybe 2-3 of those so they cover each other (so someone can't sneak up on the sensor and steal it without firing the other.)

Other fixes I've heard are putting a 5 gallon gas can with sugar syrup-sweetened gas in it out to let them steal it (& ruin their engine), or full of water; IDK on those as the sort of unethical twit who'd steal from you would likely also be vindictive enough to do damage if you did those.

And, as always, in some ways it's better to catch them in person instead of chasing them after the fact; Some prosecutors aren't too interested in "petty" crimes, sadly.

A family member used to stay up at night watching the neighborhood; They had a guy known for burglaries who was let out on parole, who would "walk his dog" at night - as an excuse to test every door he walked past, to see if it was unlocked. Guy proceeded up to a house across the street one night, and the owner had left a door unlocked (or they were carrying a pry bar this time, IDK) so the guy got in - and proceeded to steal anything he could; Meanwhile the family member was calling 911. 3-4 police officers came, with a K9 unit showing up second, then they "invited" the guy to come out; He didn't so they sent the dog in. He then came out - A little worse for wear. They handcuffed him and put him in a police car, at which point this "wise person" decided to kick the door off the hinges on that police car; The K9 officer let him start to run, then told his dog to GET him. I was told the K9 officer may have been a little slow to call his dog off... Understandable as the paperwork for a door being kicked off a police car, has to SUCK. For some reason this "wise person", who was out on parole for previous burglaries & had a long record, didn't show up again for many years; Suspecting they were in prison, somehow! Moral of the story there is, never seriously tick off a K9 officer.

[ThomR]

We had the same problem when I was a little kid. We lived way off in the country with no neighbors for a couple miles in either direction.

Someone had been stealing gas from one of our cars. Dad got tired of it and tied the doberman up to the bumper of the car they had been stealing it out of. Woke up the next morning with the little AMC Hornet having been drug several feet. We never had any more gas stolen.

[oldred]

Whatever you do DON'T heed advice to set ANY kind of trap even an electric fence charger! Although it may seem like a good idea it can get you in much more trouble with the law than they would be if caught stealing gas! Most states look upon booby traps that are meant to cause harm even to a thief (and yes an electric fence charger falls into that description) as a serious offense and in some circumstances you could be even charged with a felony. Likewise a shotgun with salt or anything else, if you shoot someone with a shotgun no matter what it's loaded with you could again be in a heck of a lot of a lot more trouble than the thief unless you have another reason (such as self defense) for using a deadly weapon. I would not hesitate to use a firearm if need be nor would I want to confront a gas thief unarmed but stealing gas is not a capital crime and if you must use a shotgun even with something like rocksalt you had better have much more reason than simply stealing gas from a vehicle.

[Tatume]

Whatever you do DON'T heed advice to set ANY kind of trap even an electric fence charger! Although it may seem like a good idea it can get you in much more trouble with the law than they would be if caught stealing gas!

I'll add to that. Setting a camera trap won't do much good in many jurisdictions either. Your loss isn't enough to get the police interested, at least where I live. I caught a business clerk copying credit card numbers and then making purchases and having them shipped to his home. Absolutely had the right guy, and the cops said "take it up with your bank." They couldn't have been less interested.

Another time I found a camera hidden inside an ATM booth. The cops couldn't have been less interested. They said "take it up with your bank." The bank did take an interest this time, and thanked me for the report.

[gpidaho]

I agree with oldred. You don't want to be the one behind bars and we all know what a felony will do for your gun rights. The idea is to gather proof that the police can use on the thieves not what they can use on you. Cameras are the best solution in my opinion. Gp

[ShooterAZ]

In my jurisdiction cameras will absolutely work. The police would be ALL over it, and pounding on some doors IF they were able to make an ID on the culprits.

[Mr_Sheesh]

At least if you have camera footage and can ID the thief, you can then sue them in Small Claims court; Once you win, go to the Sheriff's office and put a bond up and you can get the Sheriff to seize property to pay your winnings, if they won't or can't pay. That'll get you paid and should stop them from pestering you? And they can't much like the spotlight on their behavior.

[Big Tom]

You could fill the tank with gas saturated with sugar. Does not help the stealing, but will teach them something...

[Hickory]

Whatever you do DON'T heed advice to set ANY kind of trap even an electric fence charger! Although it may seem like a good idea it can get you in much more trouble with the law than they would be if caught stealing gas!

We live in a artificial world of play nice to wrong doers while they rob, rape and murder you and there is not much you can do about it.

[Bmi48219]

The booby trap idea is appealing but 35 years ago it backfired on a guy I worked with. He was storing material in the garage while building a rural home. Twice thiefs stole materials at night. His solution was to put 3 sheets of 3/4 inch plywood across the driveway, with 2 inch nails spaced every 6 inches sticking up from the sheets. Next night the crooks struck again, someone saw them & called the state police. Crooks got away, state police got 3 flat tires, builder got a $2,000.00 fine & court costs. Life isn't always fair.
Nowadays you'd have to have the perp & his license on film and some kind of unique additive in the gas that would positively prove it could only have came from your tank. But Doubtful the police would bother testing it.

[Stephen Cohen]

Sorry for off topic,this reminds me of a low life in Western Australia who was syphoning fuel from a motor home and got a gullet full of the septic tank instead. The owner did not press charges when the Police arrived as he said it was worth loosing fuel to see the thief throwing up the whole time. I am not suggesting you fill your tank with sewerage but its a thought. Regards Stephen

[Gewehr-Guy]

I'll bet they spent all their gas money on car insurance , and had to borrow your gas to get to church:p

[marlin39a]

I've got a small Browning I put out. Catches rabbits at night, so should have the capability to catch those guys.

[Minerat]

Get a picture of their face with a trail cam and
post it on your gate and fuel tank and around town like a wanted poster. Just say gas thief beware. Bet it stops, worked for us.

[Finster101]

Don't be surprised if it's someone you know.

[wgr]

most likely some of the 13% if in indie.

[oldred]

We live in a artificial world of play nice to wrong doers while they rob, rape and murder you and there is not much you can do about it.

The problem with booby traps is that they couldn't care less who they trap! An innocent person can get caught due to circumstances the owner of the trap could not foresee so there is much more to it than fairness. Obviously it would take a very strange set of circumstances to catch an innocent person stealing gas but something like that fence charger could easily get someone who was nowhere near the gas cap and had no intention of stealing anything, even a child could easily get caught in it. Ok so it's not likely a the charger could actually do any real harm but it has happened and someone startled by such a thing could get hurt from a secondary occurrence, every situation is different and ANYTHING can happen! But that's only part of it, the perp (deserving as he may be) is still protected by the law from vengeful retaliation for a wrongful act upon someone, that is to say we have no right to take the law into our own hands -protect ourselves yes but mete out punishment NO! On top of that most booby traps get the perp before he has even committed the crime!

[oldred]

Get a picture of their face with a trail cam and
post it on your gate and fuel tank and around town like a wanted poster. Just say gas thief beware. Bet it stops, worked for us.

You had better be able to prove the charge unless it has been to court and a conviction obtained, doing something like that could easily backfire BIG TIME and get you slapped with a defamation suit that could cost you a bundle even if you win (I know of a case where this actually happened!). You may have him red handed in your mind but no matter how incriminating or even irrefutable the evidence if he is not charged and convicted then legally he has done nothing and you have no right to accuse him publicly, you may have gotten away with it that time but doing that could be extremely risky.

Fellas the fact is that no matter how mad we get going after someone in any vengeful manner, physical or public humiliation, is not legal and for a good reason, we are a nation of laws and it's up to the courts to charge, convict and deal out punishment. The laws simply do not give us the right to take out vengeance on someone, we may have good reason to do so and the person may be well deserving of everything they get but until they are tried and convicted they are INNOCENT in the eyes of the law and subject to protection the same as anyone else! Short of self protection taking it upon ourselves to inflict pain or public humiliation on someone else that has not been charged and convicted is a serious matter and can result in serious consequences!

[MaryB]

5 gallon gas can in the truck filled with methanol... will overheat and seize their engine!

[smokeywolf]

Be careful about trying to protect yourself and your property. Anywhere near a major metropolitan area, courts are gaining a reputation of favoring crooks over honest folks.

[tomme boy]

Call down to the Police and ask to talk to the det. Ask if they have loaner cameras. They do here. They let you sign them out for just this type of use. And if not, do you know anyone that has a small sporting goods store? There are all kinds of them still around. Or any friends deer hunt? Someone you know has got to have one.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Oh that's a beautiful "Instant Karma" thing LOL - But here in the US I'd bet the perp would sue the motor home's owner for endangering their help and in some areas, might even win - This is a CRAZY country right now, things're BROKEN. Hoping we make it better.

[corbinace]

Fellas the fact is that no matter how mad we get going after someone in any vengeful manner, physical or public humiliation, is not legal and for a good reason, we are a nation of laws and it's up to the courts to charge, convict and deal out punishment. The laws simply do not give us the right to take out vengeance on someone, we may have good reason to do so and the person may be well deserving of everything they get but until they are tried and convicted they are INNOCENT in the eyes of the law and subject to protection the same as anyone else! Short of self protection taking it upon ourselves to inflict pain or public humiliation on someone else that has not been charged and convicted is a serious matter and can result in serious consequences!

I can't help but think of the current fiasco in the confirmation hearing arena. Kind of what you are talking about here. Not exactly but many parallels. Thanks for posting this viewpoint.

[Mr_Sheesh]

You know - The other thing is that a 5 gal can full of Diesel put in their car's gas tank will mess their catalytic converter up some, whole tank becomes unusable for much. And they'd leave a smoke trail and likely be pulled over for THAT.

Also; If you have video of the "perp" on your property, siphoning gas, you could post that on YouTube with a title like "Does anyone know who this is?" or "I wonder what this guy was up to on my property, siphoning gas from my vehicles?"; That's not accusing them of anything, but it'd warn your neighbors. Might do the job. May be best to ask a lawyer though (I'm not a lawyer. And you don't want to be sued if avoidable.)

It's pretty annoying, but imagine if traps WERE legal; Kid gets lost and blunders onto your property and gets killed by your booby trap? Or you have a house fire and a firefighter is hurt by it? That'd be totally unfair and WRONG. That's what can happen tho, so it's why they're illegal.

[fatelk]

Some years back a friend had some thieves steal anything brass and copper that they could carry from his farm in the middle of the night. The county cop told him he knew exactly who the thieves were and where they sold their loot. He went to the scrap yard and sure enough there was his stuff, and sure enough there was the name of one of the thieves' girlfriend on the receipt.

Nothing the police could do; his name wasn't on the parts, no way to prove anything. The cop was angry because he'd caught the guys before, red handed stealing, and all they got was a slap on the wrists. They had been caught again and again, and went right back to stealing with little or no consequence.

Now I don't believe in karma as such, but what goes around does come around, and as you sow, so shall you reap. A couple months later there was a story on the news of two guys in a stolen car, with a couple cans of stolen gas in the back. It seems they took a corner too fast and ended up upside down in a ditch. The car caught fire and they were trapped inside. Passersby tried to help but couldn't because of the flames, so they had to listen to them screaming in agony as they burned to death. You guessed it, the same two thieves.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I've seen that Karma happens. (There are other ways of naming that - God's wrath being one.) You just don't want to go there unless you plan to die...

I've heard of a meth-head in one state near here, who kept stealing everything that was nailed down AND everything that wasn't too, they knew exactly who he was but could never pin it on him...

He vanished at one point; No one really looked for him as he wasn't THAT popular.

Someone else drown in the local lake; Dredging for them, they found him - The story that was told was that "Somehow, he stole about 200 pounds of tire chains, and wrapped them around himself, then tried to swim across the local lake... And failed, sank, and drowned." Which story NO ONE bought, but the local Sheriff basically said "OK I'll let THIS one pass, but if it happens again someone's going to jail - forever."

That would get you very bad Karma, but I can understand (if not approve) someone doing it. A LOT of people don't like thieves. AT ALL.

[oldred]

Oh that's a beautiful "Instant Karma" thing LOL - But here in the US I'd bet the perp would sue the motor home's owner for endangering their help and in some areas, might even win - This is a CRAZY country right now, things're BROKEN. Hoping we make it better.

Well it's also an old joke and well known "urban legend", known as the "dreaded unleaded" story it has been around for many years,

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dreaded-unleaded/

I even remember the commentator Paul Harvey telling that one as far back as the 70's or early 80's! Like most Urban legends it "may" have happened somewhere at some time but that old tale is a well worn old joke that has made the rounds for years in many versions.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Being an "urban legend" doesn't mean it's untrue; I am a character so I'll insist on enjoying it - no matter what :)

[Petrol & Powder]

The purpose of installing cameras is to identify or at least attempt to identify the thieves.

The police likely know the suspects or can use the images to identify the suspects. Once the identity of the suspects is established the next step is to prosecute them for the theft. The police may have reports of other thefts in the area and will want to clear those cases and make multiple arrests if possible. The images will not only assist in identifying the thieves, the images will be valuable evidence in court.
By obtaining images and providing those images to the police you are helping yourself and more important- you are helping your neighbors. It is a civic duty to combat crime and the police cannot do it alone.

The goal of obtaining images isn't to make Youtube videos or "wanted" posters to shame the perpetrators; the goal is to gather evidence to assist in arresting and prosecuting the thieves.

[Gray Fox]

Be happy they just took your gas. Thieves siphoned most of a tank of diesel in my nearly new Ford 7.3 Powerstroke diesel, then poured water back into the tank. Didn't know until I cranked it up--or tried to--as the gauge showed I had fuel. $2,500 later I got it back from the dealer. They did keep part of what they drained and I paid to have it analyzed--87% water! At least this way my insurance paid for the repair. Good old USAA. I'm a retired owner of a small PI company and I guess I must have really PO'd somebody who executed that little exercise. BTW, this is a formerly nice community suburban area with a population demographic that is completely reversed from what it was 20 years ago. Progress. GF

[oldred]

I guess I must have really PO'd somebody who executed that little exercise. GF


That's one problem with the "feel good" methods of getting back at the perp, it might work and that might be the last of it but then they just might get the last laugh and often do! If a person can't catch them in the act and resorts to revenge how can we expect to catch them in their retaliation for such revenge? It's usually not a good idea to play games with people like this because like it or not they will often win in the end, a local old time drive-in restaurant here found that out the hard way! These people who would steal gas usually are just kids or some local dope-head but one never knows for sure and a lot of those guys actually enjoy a good game of revenge, remember the old admonishment to never pick a fight (argument) with a hog, when it's over you will both be muddy but the hog loves it!

[oldred]

The purpose of installing cameras is to identify or at least attempt to identify the thieves.

The police likely know the suspects or can use the images to identify the suspects. Once the identity of the suspects is established the next step is to prosecute them for the theft. The police may have reports of other thefts in the area and will want to clear those cases and make multiple arrests if possible. The images will not only assist in identifying the thieves, the images will be valuable evidence in court.
By obtaining images and providing those images to the police you are helping yourself and more important- you are helping your neighbors. It is a civic duty to combat crime and the police cannot do it alone.

The goal of obtaining images isn't to make Youtube videos or "wanted" posters to shame the perpetrators; the goal is to gather evidence to assist in arresting and prosecuting the thieves.

Right on!

A clear level headed approach is always the best, a person trying to take the law into their own hands or tying to exact revenge on the perp will often cause more trouble than it stops, many times with very expensive repercussions. Some of these things to get even might seem like a good idea at the time but a lot of these feel good moments can come back to bite someone in ways they might never expect!

[Handloader109]

Look, trail cam wont really do any good even if clear face pic
Police wont di anything unless you catch in the act. I'd install photo sensitive light. And I've got the hf, 10 dollar Alarm at end of my drive, it works well. Dont set Booby trap...

[oldred]

Look, trail cam wont really do any good even if clear face pic
Police wont di anything unless you catch in the act. I'd install photo sensitive light. And I've got the hf, 10 dollar Alarm at end of my drive, it works well. Dont set Booby trap...

You're right about the pic, I ran into that very thing while trying to catch some dumpers at a secluded spot along a back road here that was becoming an illegal garbage dump. We finally caught enough of them in the act to put a stop to it but until they were actually caught in the live act of doing the deed an arrest could not be made as the trail cam pictures were not enough. HOWEVER, as pointed out by someone else those pics can be a very valuable asset in court and while alone they might not be enough for an arrest they can help very much in obtaining a conviction when the perp is finally arrested.

The trail cam pictures by themselves may not be enough but they are a valuable asset in the process and a darn good start.

[country gent]

They used to make a spring that went in the filler which was a closed end tapered coil that wouldn't allow hoses past it. It was like the battery spring in a flashlight. Once installed its there and dosnt affect any thing. Simple effective and cheap I believe they were less than $10.00 years ago. Nice thing with them is they protect wherever the car is not just in the driveway.

[swheeler]

The wife's vehicle and mine do not have gas caps or locking gas doors, they have built in anti-siphon features but without a locking gas door something could be poured into the tank.

[Handloader109]

I had a $2k mower stolen from me and same day officer said to my face unless you stop them in the act, they couldn't not wouldn't do anything but write me a report. Photo is only good if you use to buttress your case. Had a guy drive off with boy scouts trailer with over 10k of their kayaks and camping gear. Too bad.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[DocSavage]

Side note sugar and sugary syrups don't dissolve in gasoline so that trick is a waste of gas and sugar. Mythbusters had a segment on ways to destroy a car engine,they dumped quite a bit of sugar in the tank ran the engine for quite a while and no stoppage. Trail cameras and motion detectors linked to your cell phone or computer are your best bet.

[oldred]

They used to make a spring that went in the filler which was a closed end tapered coil that wouldn't allow hoses past it. It was like the battery spring in a flashlight. Once installed its there and dosnt affect any thing. Simple effective and cheap I believe they were less than $10.00 years ago. Nice thing with them is they protect wherever the car is not just in the driveway.

The problem with that kind of deterrent is the thief can then resort to cutting the hose to the tank, a lot easier to do than it might seem on some cars and on most trucks it's quite simple.

[Petrol & Powder]

* Report the theft.
* Provide the images to the police.

The police CAN investigate a past crime and do it ALL of the time. The only question is; "is the past crime worth investigating"?
The police are not going to divert resources and spend days investigation a minor crime that is likely to go unsolved. HOWEVER, the police will investigate a theft, or a series of thefts, that will likely result in arrests and convictions.

If some officer says he/she will not investigate a past larceny, he or she is just lazy. Make the report and follow up with his/her supervisor.

There's no requirement that the person committing the crime must "be caught in the act" in order to be prosecuted. Any officer that claims a person cannot be prosecuted for a past larceny is either ignorant of the law or just plain lazy.

The police WILL investigate a past larceny, particularly one with videos or still images that make identification of the suspect possible.

[oldred]

Side note sugar and sugary syrups don't dissolve in gasoline so that trick is a waste of gas and sugar. Mythbusters had a segment on ways to destroy a car engine,they dumped quite a bit of sugar in the tank ran the engine for quite a while and no stoppage. Trail cameras and motion detectors linked to your cell phone or computer are your best bet.

Right and I also don't understand all these posts suggesting diesel fuel, methanol, sugar, etc???????? What are you folks suggesting, putting that stuff in the tank in the hopes the thief will then steal it????? I mean how else would the thief get it if they didn't siphon it from the tank? This just makes no sense, why on Earth would someone pour junk into their own tank in an attempt to retaliate against a thief? First of all would the thief even come back? Then the owner would be faced with draining and flushing their own tank and for what, the chance the thief might strike again before the vehicle is needed again? If I am missing something then please explain just how folks are supposed to get these perps to steal the junk that is supposed to "get even with them"? Do you think even a gas thief wouldn't know the difference between diesel or methanol and gasoline? I seriously doubt any thief could be ticked into siphoning diesel, methanol etc and be made to think he had stolen gasoline since they are so different. All of those have a VERY strong odor that would be highly unlikely to go unnoticed and all but the dumbest of the dumb would instantly know he wasn't stealing gasoline! If I am missing the idea behind the methods of those suggestions then someone please enlighten me.

[jsizemore]

Can you park the vehicle so close to a structure that they can't get to the gas cap? That should also reduce crawling under to cut the hose. You may have to crawl over to the passenger side to get out. If they can still crawl under the vehicle and get to the hose then an infrared sensor could send a signal to a siren or light in the house. Keep it completely in the vehicle with a hidden on/ off switch.

[Houndog]

I had a problem with thief stealing diesel fuel out of my road tractor one winter so I shut off the tank transfer line and dumped about 25 gallons of gas in the diesel tank he was siphoning fuel from. A day later his furnace exploded and burned his trailer to the ground. End of problem!

[clintsfolly]

Years ago we had someone stealing gas off a job site and so one Friday the boss had me fill the tank with water. Monday we had two local guys not come in to work both had a bad case of water in their truck tanks. When they finally showed up the boss told both of them “If one gallon of gas comes up missing you two are fired and give me your keys!”we never lost any more gas.

[Stephen Cohen]

Well it's also an old joke and well known "urban legend", known as the "dreaded unleaded" story it has been around for many years,

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dreaded-unleaded/

I even remember the commentator Paul Harvey telling that one as far back as the 70's or early 80's! Like most Urban legends it "may" have happened somewhere at some time but that old tale is a well worn old joke that has made the rounds for years in many versions.

And I believed it when I heard about it, Now I am so heart broken that Karma didn't happen. Regards Stephen

[oldred]

And I believed it when I heard about it, Now I am so heart broken that Karma didn't happen. Regards Stephen

Of all the common urban legends out there that one was one that it seems everyone wanted to be true! :sad:

When you actually think about it however and see how the sewer tank is accessed on just about any of those motor homes and where the access port is located it would be highly unlikely that a person would get them confused, oh well it's still fun to think that yes it just "could have" really happened somewhere at some time.

[Thundarstick]

I worked with a young lady who grew up in Georgia (The USSR one). She made lots or observations about America, one being, that she was shocked at all the car ports full of junk here, while the cars were parked in the drive and on the street. She said if you'd have done that over there you would'nt have a car very long! I guess that's where were heading!

[lightman]

Stories like this make me feel fortunate to have a closed in garage and a shop to park my vehicles in. I agree, the best thing probably would be to get a camera that sends pictures to your phone.

[MaryB]

Right and I also don't understand all these posts suggesting diesel fuel, methanol, sugar, etc???????? What are you folks suggesting, putting that stuff in the tank in the hopes the thief will then steal it????? I mean how else would the thief get it if they didn't siphon it from the tank? This just makes no sense, why on Earth would someone pour junk into their own tank in an attempt to retaliate against a thief? First of all would the thief even come back? Then the owner would be faced with draining and flushing their own tank and for what, the chance the thief might strike again before the vehicle is needed again? If I am missing something then please explain just how folks are supposed to get these perps to steal the junk that is supposed to "get even with them"? Do you think even a gas thief wouldn't know the difference between diesel or methanol and gasoline? I seriously doubt any thief could be ticked into siphoning diesel, methanol etc and be made to think he had stolen gasoline since they are so different. All of those have a VERY strong odor that would be highly unlikely to go unnoticed and all but the dumbest of the dumb would instantly know he wasn't stealing gasoline! If I am missing the idea behind the methods of those suggestions then someone please enlighten me.



The suggestion is leave a 5 gallon gas can of contaminate next to the car like you had to gas it and didn't have time. Scum steals it and pours it in their fuel tank...

[MaryB]

My former meth head neighbor was stealing gas from my truck. I rigged a switch and small tank and hose facing out the gas tank door. Ope door switch fired up a high pressure mini pump and sprayed him with purple dye.. He had a hard time facing me for a month...

[Johnch]

Dad had someone stealing gas from his farm truck 1 or 2 times a week a few years back

He borrowed my brothers truck and parked it where his truck was always parked

The next morning he found a car along the road 2 or 3 miles from his place
My brothers truck used diesel and the best I can guess the car was almost empty when they filled the tank LOL

I agree no traps , but around here a picture and the police take interest if you say you want to press charges

John

[oldred]

The suggestion is leave a 5 gallon gas can of contaminate next to the car like you had to gas it and didn't have time. Scum steals it and pours it in their fuel tank...


Uh, do you really think someone would steal a can full of something and not check to see what's in the can before pouring it into his tank? No matter what label is on a can I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone would be dumb enough not to at least sniff it before pouring it into his tank, on second thought there are some dumb hombres that "might" do such a thing but they would be the rare exception.

[JimB..]

I think a thief would take a 5 gal gas can out of the back of a pickup and assume that it is gas. If it’s 75% methanol and 25% gas he’d likely never notice.

Parking two vehicles very close together to block access would help. Putting a trip wire between them that sets off the car alarms would end the problem pretty quickly.

I do like Mary’s purple die!

[oldred]

I do like Mary’s purple die!

Unfortunately that too is a booby trap and unfair that it may seem (unfair it is actually) it would be illegal and a very dangerous thing to do. If the perp is injured in any way, hit in the eyes for instance, or even just wanted to try and collect for damages he could cause the owner a world of hurt! You might even be able to get a conviction based on the dye but likely only for trespassing (remember he will be hit BEFORE he actually commits the crime!) while the owner would be liable for any sustained injuries, phony or otherwise, plus they could be charged with setting the booby trap.

Fellas all these get even feel good stories are all a recipe for disaster, like it or not setting a trap, any kind of trap that could potentially cause injury (and yes dye or ink would be an injury) is just not legal and would likely cause the owner far more trouble than the perp would suffer. Some of these guys are very much aware of how the law is written pertaining to traps and if you catch one of those guys he could very well take you for a ride -a very expensive ride! All these suggestions of traps such as even the dye are REALLY BAD ideas no matter how much someone wants to believe otherwise, don't believe me? Just talk with a lawyer or call the county prosecutors office, calling the police could get you some really poor advice so go higher than that and at least call that prosecutors office.

[MrWolf]

Make sure you post current No Tresspassing signs up. Bought a place that had them up and when broken into knowing who did it cops said I didn't put the signs up so don't matter.

[oldred]

Make sure you post current No Trespassing signs up. Bought a place that had them up and when broken into knowing who did it cops said I didn't put the signs up so don't matter.

No trespassing signs are a very good idea as is "private property" in addition but whatever else DON'T post any "at your own risk" warning signs anywhere on your property! "enter at your own risk", "Warning Guard dog", etc can and will get a person in a lot of trouble if someone gets hurt on the owners property even if the perp is trespassing! Again, just like some of the seemingly good idea traps and pranks to spring on an unsuspecting perp a warning sign can cause the owner more trouble than the trouble maker! The problem is that the law does NOT consider a warning sign as a fair warning that shifts the burden of responsibility to the intruder it instead considers such signs as an admission by the property owner that they are aware that a danger exists and have not taken proper steps to protect anyone who might be exposed to such danger. An example that is commonly used goes like this, if you have a dog that bites someone but you DO NOT have a warning sign in place warning the person of the danger of a biting dog then you can at least claim you didn't know the dog bites and thus you might lessen your liability or even shift all the burden of reliability to the victim depending on the circumstances (suspected thief, etc). However if you DO have a sign such as "warning biting dog" or even worse "warning attack dog" then the law again does not consider that a fair warning that relieves the owner of liability but rather it considers it as proof that the owner was aware that the dog was dangerous but did not sufficiently restrain it from biting!

The bottom line is the courts do not look at warning signs as a warning but rather as proof that the owner failed to take sufficient steps to prevent potential injury, whether or not the person was on the property legally or not it in a sense is based on the same thinking as setting booby traps.

[toallmy]

Let your neighbors know something is going on so they will keep a eye out for strangers cruising the neighborhood and , contact the local police go through the trouble of reporting the crime . The squeaky wheel gets the grease so start squeaking .

[oldred]

Let your neighbors know something is going on so they will keep a eye out for strangers cruising the neighborhood and , contact the local police go through the trouble of reporting the crime . The squeaky wheel gets the grease so start squeaking .

More very good level headed advice!

This is the way these things need to be dealt with, pranks and such directed at the perp usually don't even work, despite the feel good stories, and can very easily cause even more unwanted headaches from things such as revenge retaliation to law suits or even criminal charges against the owner. As frustrating as it may seem the law expects the owner to rely on it to deal with these situations and anything we do that could in any way cause harm to the perp, even minor injury such as dye, ink or paint for instance, can backfire on the owner in ways they might never imagine. Whether we agree with it or not a perp is just as entitled to protection from injury or humiliation as the next guy until he has been formally charged, tried and convicted and even then we as the aggrieved still have no legal right to exact any retribution upon that individual except as pursued through the courts!

Some of the suggestions so far have ranged from comical to dangerous but before doing anything other than calling the police and maybe trying to get identification of the perp it's a good idea to take a REALLY good look at what's being considered and the possible consequences of such actions! My wife is a retired paralegal and she can tell of cases that would curl your hair from the seeming unfairness to the victim(s)! These laws are not without sound reasoning and are meant to protect everyone, even the perp is entitled to the same protection until they are convicted, until then they have the same rights as anyone else which in the overall scheme of things is as it should be. We have no right to vengeance, period! We may not like it but it's the law and it's meant to protect EVERYONE, imagine how it would be if it were legal to take vengeance on someone you THINK has done you wrong? Thank God we are ALL entitled to a presumption of innocence until convicted in a court of law and not subject (legally) to the wrath of vengeful individuals or vengeance committees (vigilantes). This is why these seemingly unfair laws exist and while they may seem to favor the perp they actually are meant to guarantee as much as practical that the wrongfully accused will not have to suffer undeserved punishment.

[bob208]

if you post no trespassing and not responsible to accidents signs then it is on them. if you think not just tell me how do you keep what you have ? I had a eye witness and the cops knew who the thieves were and where they lived and still would do nothing. I even had the tag number of the truck they drove.

[toallmy]

We have a good Sheriff and reasonable Deputies here in Northampton County .

[oldred]

if you post no trespassing and not responsible to accidents signs then it is on them.

Unfortunately it is not on them, the no trespassing sign is a very good idea because it makes it illegal for them to be on the property and they can even be charged with that. The "not responsible for accidents" sign however is a real no-no, first the law does not allow you to shuck responsibility just by posting a sign! In fact such a sign does nothing at all to shift the liability of an accident from the owner to the other person, rather than shifting the liability "to them" it is instead seen by the courts as an admission by the property owner that they are aware a dangerous condition exists or might exist and still they took no steps to prevent an unsuspecting person from getting hurt, it matters not in the least if the victim was trespassing or not that would be a different matter.

Under the law a property owner has the liability of reasonable protection of anyone on the property and such a "not responsible" sign does not in any way relieve the owner of such liability. Without the sign the property owner might reasonably claim they had no such knowledge of any danger and this could help a great deal in a liability suit. WITH such a sign posted however the owner is in the eyes of the law posting reasonable admission of an awareness of danger but took no other or insufficient steps to protect someone on the property. It's just another variation on the "biting dog" warning sign I used in the post above, signs meant to protect a property can cause them serious problems instead sometimes!

[Moleman-]

I still chuckle thinking about Marys dye pump. What does that setup look like?

[gwpercle]

That security camera footage in court is hard to refute and chances are it will solve some other cases in the area....they don't just steal from you. Talk to the local law , they might just lend you a camera to help solve the crimes. Camera footage and DNA will send you straight to jail .

[georgerkahn]

A janitor in building I worked in had similar, if not identical problem, with petrol siphoned out of his GMC truck, followed by perps actually drilling a hole in (I don't remember) either his fuel tank or a line to it after he purchased and installed a locking tank cap. In summer time, he elected to leave his push lawn mower out adjacent to his garage, with an almost full fuel can adjacent to it. (He had mixed a goodly amount of cane sugar in with petrol) Just a few days later, he saw his grandson on side of road with grandson's friend's truck having hood up trying to determine what made his engine seize. It put the janitor in an awkward spot, albeit I doubt if he ever owned up to what he had done. And... the petrol pilfering ceased.

[toallmy]

I have setup trail cameras around my shop in the past , all I got were pictures of stray cats .:-P

[ThomR]

I had a problem neighbor a couple years ago, called the police and the problem was solved.
The officer I spoke to said someone a couple blocks away had some high school students that kept stealing from their carport. He said they put up trail cameras and that was enough to put a stop to it. I don't remember if they were fined, jailed, or anything.

[Grmps]

Cheap motion sensitive car alarm, add a light under the vehicle for effect.

and/or https://picclick.com/Chrome-Fuel-Gas-Door-w-lock-07-13-Gmc-371829720203.html

[jsizemore]

Unfortunately that too is a booby trap and unfair that it may seem (unfair it is actually) it would be illegal and a very dangerous thing to do. If the perp is injured in any way, hit in the eyes for instance, or even just wanted to try and collect for damages he could cause the owner a world of hurt! You might even be able to get a conviction based on the dye but likely only for trespassing (remember he will be hit BEFORE he actually commits the crime!) while the owner would be liable for any sustained injuries, phony or otherwise, plus they could be charged with setting the booby trap.

Fellas all these get even feel good stories are all a recipe for disaster, like it or not setting a trap, any kind of trap that could potentially cause injury (and yes dye or ink would be an injury) is just not legal and would likely cause the owner far more trouble than the perp would suffer. Some of these guys are very much aware of how the law is written pertaining to traps and if you catch one of those guys he could very well take you for a ride -a very expensive ride! All these suggestions of traps such as even the dye are REALLY BAD ideas no matter how much someone wants to believe otherwise, don't believe me? Just talk with a lawyer or call the county prosecutors office, calling the police could get you some really poor advice so go higher than that and at least call that prosecutors office.

You may think it's not okay for the banks to do it but they do:

https://science.howstuffworks.com/question671.htm

So much for that opinion.

[oldred]

You may think it's not okay for the banks to do it but they do:

https://science.howstuffworks.com/question671.htm

So much for that opinion.
Not even close to the same thing!

There is a world of difference between a legal and approved device designed to stain stolen money and only in a controlled situation, controlled in that it is manually passed to a robber and done so in full view and control of just who is receiving it vs a rigged booby trap that is designed to HIT THE PERSON (ANY PERSON) and in an uncontrolled autonomous way that could easily involve an innocent person as an unintended target. Believe what you will and I fully expected someone to point at that but it is an entirely different thing than a rigged booby trap!

Rig up a dye gadget like what was suggested and it is AN ILLEGAL booby trap that could easily get you in serious trouble, call that county persecutor and see what they tell you! It's easy to argue such a point here on an internet forum but that comparison would get shot down in a heatbeat in a court of law!


For a true comparison a bank would have to, for example, rig up a dye bomb in ATM machines set to go off and hit the robber if the machine were to be tampered with or broken open! ATM machines are often a target but have any been set up to do such a thing or in any other way harm a thief? Obviously not and it would not be legal for them to do so just as the suggested dye trap is not legal and could easily lead to the person who set it being in deep trouble!

[MaryB]

Unfortunately that too is a booby trap and unfair that it may seem (unfair it is actually) it would be illegal and a very dangerous thing to do. If the perp is injured in any way, hit in the eyes for instance, or even just wanted to try and collect for damages he could cause the owner a world of hurt! You might even be able to get a conviction based on the dye but likely only for trespassing (remember he will be hit BEFORE he actually commits the crime!) while the owner would be liable for any sustained injuries, phony or otherwise, plus they could be charged with setting the booby trap.

Fellas all these get even feel good stories are all a recipe for disaster, like it or not setting a trap, any kind of trap that could potentially cause injury (and yes dye or ink would be an injury) is just not legal and would likely cause the owner far more trouble than the perp would suffer. Some of these guys are very much aware of how the law is written pertaining to traps and if you catch one of those guys he could very well take you for a ride -a very expensive ride! All these suggestions of traps such as even the dye are REALLY BAD ideas no matter how much someone wants to believe otherwise, don't believe me? Just talk with a lawyer or call the county prosecutors office, calling the police could get you some really poor advice so go higher than that and at least call that prosecutors office.


No chance of eyes, went off as soon as the door was opened and painted his hands

[MaryB]

I still chuckle thinking about Marys dye pump. What does that setup look like?

Small 3 oz tank, tiny 12v pump, door pin switch, piece of tubing and a homemade nozzle. Went off as soon as the door was opened and painted his hands.

[MaryB]

Not even close to the same thing!

There is a world of difference between a legal and approved device designed to stain stolen money and only in a controlled situation, controlled in that it is manually passed to a robber and done so in full view and control of just who is receiving it vs a rigged booby trap that is designed to HIT THE PERSON (ANY PERSON) and in an uncontrolled autonomous way that could easily involve an innocent person as an unintended target. Believe what you will and I fully expected someone to point at that but it is an entirely different thing than a rigged booby trap!

Rig up a dye gadget like what was suggested and it is AN ILLEGAL booby trap that could easily get you in serious trouble, call that county persecutor and see what they tell you! It's easy to argue such a point here on an internet forum but that comparison would get shot down in a heatbeat in a court of law!


For a true comparison a bank would have to, for example, rig up a dye bomb in ATM machines set to go off and hit the robber if the machine were to be tampered with or broken open! ATM machines are often a target but have any been set up to do such a thing or in any other way harm a thief? Obviously not and it would not be legal for them to do so just as the suggested dye trap is not legal and could easily lead to the person who set it being in deep trouble!

In MN anyone injured during commission of a crime can NOT sue the homeowner.

[Blammer]

sugar does not dissolve in gas.

You must first dissolve the sugar in water you can then add it the gasoline.

2 cups of water will hold at least one cup of sugar dissolved, you may have to warm it a bit to make a good syrup.

This is what I use to feed my bees in the winter, sugar water.

2 cups of sugar water is sufficient to ruin an engine.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Good creativity there, MaryB :)

[Moleman-]

Small 3 oz tank, tiny 12v pump, door pin switch, piece of tubing and a homemade nozzle. Went off as soon as the door was opened and painted his hands.

Still funny. I'd thought you'd gone high tech with a photo eye or something. Heck I think I could wire that up between laughing fits.

[flyingmonkey35]

You had better be able to prove the charge unless it has been to court and a conviction obtained, doing something like that could easily backfire BIG TIME and get you slapped with a defamation suit that could cost you a bundle even if you win (I know of a case where this actually happened!). You may have him red handed in your mind but no matter how incriminating or even irrefutable the evidence if he is not charged and convicted then legally he has done nothing and you have no right to accuse him publicly, you may have gotten away with it that time but doing that could be extremely risky.

Fellas the fact is that no matter how mad we get going after someone in any vengeful manner, physical or public humiliation, is not legal and for a good reason, we are a nation of laws and it's up to the courts to charge, convict and deal out punishment. The laws simply do not give us the right to take out vengeance on someone, we may have good reason to do so and the person may be well deserving of everything they get but until they are tried and convicted they are INNOCENT in the eyes of the law and subject to protection the same as anyone else! Short of self protection taking it upon ourselves to inflict pain or public humiliation on someone else that has not been charged and convicted is a serious matter and can result in serious consequences!Wanted information leading to the arrest of this suspect insert photos. Suspect Ed crim theft if gas. Contact loacl pd with infromtaion. Cash reward upon conviction.

This is legal in all 50 states but checK with your local city / county Sherri D/A office.

Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk

[oldred]

In MN anyone injured during commission of a crime can NOT sue the homeowner.

I bet they can if injured by a booby trap!

BTW, you dye device is still a booby trap and it doesn't matter where the perp is hit! Like I said in another post it's easy to dispute me but in court it would be another matter.

[oldred]

Wanted information leading to the arrest of this suspect insert photos. Suspect Ed crim theft if gas. Contact loacl pd with infromtaion. Cash reward upon conviction.

This is legal in all 50 states but checK with your local city / county Sherri D/A office.


That would probably work as long as you didn't identify by name, address, etc and called them a suspect and not a thief.

[Mr_Sheesh]

If you made one that sprayed them with Mercaptans (skunk oil) it'd be hard for them to prove much, but, still risking a lawsuit. The laws in this country're just plain in favor of the bad guys, seems like.

[oldred]

I suppose the dye or Mercaptans would likely be considered more of a prank than a booby trap and while not likely to cause legal problems unless someone was injured, every situation is different with many unknowns until the event actually happens so there will always be a risk.

All this talk of clever ways to "get even" with the thief might sound and feel good here but when a person takes a really objective look at it and see it as it is in the real world without the emotional attachment and desire for revenge then things change a lot. Short of becoming involved in a lawsuit the more real danger is retaliation or simply someone ending up with more harm to themselves than to the perp. Some people are going to argue against common sense simply because of the desire to believe in a "feel good" result even when deep down they know better but that won't change the real world. They can believe what they like if it makes them feel better but setting a gas can full of "something" is likely to do no more than cost them the price of a gas can (Priced one lately? Do they think the thief will return it?) and the cost of whatever contents are in it and all for what? It would take someone really stupid to steal a can and pour the contents into their tank without checking to see just what it is they have stolen. Even if they didn't intentionally check diesel fuel would be instantly identifiable when the perp starts to siphon or even pour it, that stuff STINKS and both gas and diesel have a very strong odor so it would be extremely unlikely the perp wouldn't know the difference, ditto with methanol, again a person can argue the point but those of us who have been around diesel and methanol (by the gallon as air line antifreeze) know better! In reality you simply lose a gas can and the perp would just pour the contents on the ground, oh but I would use a junk can someone might say! Well that would all but guarantee the perp would check to see what he's got! THINK about it!

The dye trick is also far more likely to backfire than result in getting the last laugh on the perp, would the perp who had just been sprayed with dye, ink, etc just back up and say "well I guess they got me" and then meekly leave or would he be more likely to be highly PO'ed and say something like "Ok wise guy you think you're smart then take this" and then kick in the car door, break the windshield or do some other act of revenge? I mean really, think these things through! Bashing me for raining on the parade does not change what is likely to happen, arguing the point might make some feel better because of what they would LIKE to believe but deep down most folks really know better or at least they would if they forget the fantasies and feel good stories and look objectively at the true possibilities (probabilities).

[blackthorn]

Based on the above and my own observation over the years, if you want the protection of the law these days you have to break it first! So??? I honestly do not know what I would do if I had a thief problem, but I really doubt I would be likely to just pat it on its back and say "go forth and steal no more". Much more likely to wind up admitting oldred was right! At my age, just would not care!

[sureYnot]

Nail thief. Don't talk about what happened to him. Sleep well.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[smokeywolf]

Not sure what I'd do. Certainly put up "NO TRESPASSING" signs. I won't however, adopt a victim mentality as oldred quite obviously ascribes to.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I had friend (neighbor) who apparently was fixated at my two newer cars and decided to write to the headquarters of the Nassau County Police Department alledging that I was on the take. Well Nassau PD did not have me listed as their own so the sent it to Suffolk PD. They also denied have me in their employ and then they sent it to the NYCPD. Of course the NYCPD jumped all of that and passed me over for my overdue promotion to Sergeant for 8 months and of course they would never reveal the source of the allegation.

However I had a friend working in the Internal Affairs Bureau and I confirmed my guess that it was my neighbor. The next week he got a brand new Cadillac and someone jammed a few Idaho potatoes enema style into this cars' exhaust pipes. The car sat for a few days then it was towed off. It reappeared a week later and someone did it again! Then someone collected all the doogie solid and smelly waste possible and put it in a brown paper bag, placed it quietly on the cement porch, set it afire, rang the bell 3 times and ran off. The neighbor naturally stomped on the bag to put out the fire and made quite a mess. I got a chuckle out of that one. The someone got the bright idea to enrich and enlighten our neighbor by purchasing subscriptions to a few interesting magazines. A few of them (actually all) explore different approaches to life.. Man loves Boy is a nice one, along with Hot 9 year olds, a few gay magazines and a few more wherein he was taken to the world of transgenders and their ilk ad nausea . The thoughtful neighbor also included a few lesbian publications for the Mrs. Then one day a very large dump truck pulled into our neighbors driveway and deposited 18 cubic yards of crushed stone on the drive behind the Cadillac which again was constipated. The driver stepped down and presented the invoice for the product to our unsuspecting neighbor. My neighbor became unglued to put it mildly and I was LMAOTF.

There are about 9 different food delivery companies which will no longer accept any custom from our neighbor. One night during a dinner party with live music and dancing etc a Dominoes Pizza driver appears with 4 pizzas and seeking payment. Then a few minutes later 3 Pizza guys want to lay off their products at idiot neighbor and he is now screaming and pulling out hunks of hair from his head. I also took the opportunity to also enrich my neighbor's lifestyle by having him join various groups espousing causes pretty much opposite to his leftish leaning dufus personality via the interweb. I just got him a great gift from the NRA. All he has to do to get it is to pay for a lifetime membership. He is now registered as a Republican, a strict constitutionalist, loves coal, his bible, his flag and Trump. He also volunteers a lot but seldom leaves his house. He has changed his phone number pretty much every month and hark! I see the Seven Santini Brothers moving van pulling up in from of his house and he runs out of the house to hug the driver.

I don't get PO'd any more, now I get even. His false allegations were investigated and during this process which took almost two years my promotion to the rank of Sergeant in the NYCPD was delayed. This delay cost me well over $12,000 in wages and seniority down the road.

[oldred]

I won't however, adopt a victim mentality as oldred quite obviously ascribes to.


How am I adopting a victim mentality? Because I am not going to set my self up for a possible lawsuit and even a possible felony by setting a booby trap? Because I am not going to simply PO a perp by pulling silly pranks on him when I'm not around to stop him from retaliating? Or is it because I simply pointed out common sense reasons why pranks such as the dye setup is likely to cause far more problems than it solves? Where did I say to just give in? No where did I suggest anyone just throw up their hands and give in to these guys, I have suggested to use COMMON SENSE as some others also have by taking a sensible approach and doing something like taking pictures and working with the police. Another thing I personally would do, and I have been surprised it has not been mentioned yet, is that I would confront the perp while he was in the act!

No I am NOT taking a victim mentality but I'm not going to do anything stupid either!

[labradigger1]

Just sit in a lawn chair in the shadows near the truck with a nice ole ball bat or a piece of 500mc copper wire and teach him some manners his daddy should have taught him.

[Thundarstick]

Oldred, I'm afraid you are in the same position I was in during a thread about a dog being abused. Just let them go and move on to something else. BTW, I agree with you on these traps and revengeful schemes.

[oldred]

Just sit in a lawn chair in the shadows near the truck with a nice ole ball bat or a piece of 500mc copper wire and teach him some manners his daddy should have taught him.

Depending on the perps size I am a bit too old and broken down to attempt that but my hat is off to you, a real good butt kicking is the one thing the owner is likely to get away with!

When I said I would confront them I meant (in my case anyway) that I would confront them with that aforementioned shotgun and it wouldn't be loaded with rock salt! However I have to be realistic about even that, while I certainly would not be bluffing if the perp decided to escalate the situation and I would not hesitate to do whatever necessary to protect myself there is little we can do (legally) if they decided to do the opposite and run away. We can try to hold them at gunpoint until the law arrives but if they decide to just give you a one finger salute and laugh at you as they turn and walk away we have few (legal) options other than to just let them go. It sucks, it really does but the fact is shooting a fleeing burglar, especially an unarmed one, will land a person in the big house so fast their shadow won't be able to keep up, unfortunately a lot of these guys are all too aware of that!

[NoZombies]

There sure is an awful lot of legal (and some illegal Ha!) advice in this thread.

It's interesting to see the differences in police attitudes in different areas.

We've been having a rash of robberies in the neighborhood here, mostly petty stuff going missing from cars, a scooter got stolen, I think a lawnmower as well. The police have been out canvasing the neighborhood after every crime. I've got security cameras, but we haven't been hit. (Our super long driveway may be a deterrent... or our crappy old cars) The cops have asked me to keep an eye on the camera footage and let them know if I find anything suspicious. They were very clear that having video footage of the criminals would be helpful in both solving the crimes, and in prosecution.

[oldred]

Oldred, I'm afraid you are in the same position I was in during a thread about a dog being abused. Just let them go and move on to something else. BTW, I agree with you on these traps and revengeful schemes.

It usually goes that way, people like feel good stories and tend to get a bit ruffled if someone points out possible flaws, however in real life that kind of thing usually doesn't go so smoothly. We have probably all heard of cases where a normally law abiding person was charged while a low life that was injured got off scot-free and maybe even sued for damages but the law is what it is for a reason and we can't just ignore it. We may not agree with it and not like it but that doesn't change the way things are, feel good stories and advice can conveniently ignore the law and following advice such as that is one way those law abiding victims can end up in more trouble than the perp!.

Just one example of how this kind of talk can backfire when people follow through with it, I think it likely that most everyone here has at one time or another heard the old line (or some variation of it) that if you have to shoot someone outside your house, in your yard, etc then drag them in the house because no jury will convict someone for shooting an intruder. About 10 or so years ago that very thing happened not 5 miles from where I live, two neighbors got into an argument over loud music and one of them came over to the music player's home armed with a piece of metal pipe. The argument escalated into the music player confronting the neighbor who had come into his front yard and was yelling obscenities at him and threatening him with a beating, a fight ensued and to prevent the music player from being beaten with the pipe a relative stepped out of the house and shot the aggressor who died from the wound. In the panic that followed that old BS advise came up about dragging the body inside, these folks learned the hard way about listening to old tales! Suffice it to say that it was quite clearly a justified shooting and all would have ended well had they just called the police and told the truth, as it was for various charges one of them was sentenced to 12 years IIRC and two others involved got 2 years each for their part.

Sometimes when feel good fantasy and reality collide the result is all too often not what some folks might expect!

[fatelk]

I have to admit that's a dose of reality, Oldred.

This reminds me a bit of one of the things I try to teach my kids about driving in particular, and life in general. As it relates to driving, there have been times in my life when I've really been taught a lesson. It's usually when some idiot does something rude or crazy. For example, I was in a line of traffic passing a truck one day when a car comes flying up on the right, behind the truck, obviously intending to cut in. I was close to passing the truck so he was clearly intending on cutting in front of me.

It ticked me off so I closed the gap with the car in front of me, figuring I'd teach the jerk a lesson and he'd be stuck behind the truck until it was his turn. He sped up, tailgating the truck, then pushed over into my lane, with me in it! I stepped on the brake to barely avoid an accident, letting him cut in and go on his merry little way.

Who was taught a lesson? ME! I learned to stay away from crazy. I learned that whoever that dirtbag was, my safety was more important to me than his safety was to him. I was tailgating the car in front of me to keep him from cutting me off. I could have and probably should have gotten a ticket for that, and if there had been an accident I would have shared in the blame.

I've had to learn that lesson more than once over the years, but now I just let them go. Protecting my own physical and legal safety sometimes means letting a jerk get away with something. Personally I wouldn't even consider doing anything legally risky. It could easily end up costing a lot more than a few gallons of gas. I don't say that lightly either. I absolutely despise a thief, and hate seeing them get away with it, but the world is full of jerks and thieves. Always has been, always will. You'll never "teach them a lesson", the best you can do is to just protect yourself, and sometimes that really means just letting it go.

[fiberoptik]

In 70’s our neighbors cut the line to our gas tank spilling 100’s of gallons on grass and drive after stealing a tankful. Back in high school in 1980’s we had a few thieves from school breaking into garages. My friends dad put a metal grate under the metal door. Wires both wires from an old extension cord to each and made sure the grass was wet. Heard some really nice screams that night. I used a .410 with rock salt for Target practice at 3:00 am on a well known rear end. He was rubbing it a lot while waiting for the school bus. Informed him next time would be lead. No more break ins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldred]

In 70’s our neighbors cut the line to our gas tank spilling 100’s of gallons on grass and drive after stealing a tankful. Back in high school in 1980’s we had a few thieves from school breaking into garages. My friends dad put a metal grate under the metal door. Wires both wires from an old extension cord to each and made sure the grass was wet. Heard some really nice screams that night. I used a .410 with rock salt for Target practice at 3:00 am on a well known rear end. He was rubbing it a lot while waiting for the school bus. Informed him next time would be lead. No more break ins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is exactly the kind of dumb, and both suggestions are REALLY dumb, advice we have been talking about, both suggestions you just made could easily cost you everything you own and quite likely land you in jail! Both the booby trap and the shotgun/salt would be felonies in any state in this country and you most certainly would be liable for any injuries the perp sustained! Did it occur to you how much trouble you could have been in had the perp died from electrocution? Doing either of those tricks is just plain stupid!

Ok I see you say it was a friends dad who rigged the booby trap but the point remains the same!

[bob208]

ed you whatg to do. but all you come up with is what we can't do.

[oldred]

ed you whatg to do. but all you come up with is what we can't do.


"ed you whatg to do" ??????? I'm going to assume you are using a phone?

If that's aimed at me then no it's not a case of "all I can come up with is what we can't do"! I have been addressing problems likely encountered from "feel good" reactions that are likely to backfire with results ranging from retaliatory damages caused by pranking a perp when no one is around to stop him him from revenge to jail time for setting highly illegal traps!

I have repeatedly suggested, the same as several other posters, to avoid doing anything that is likely to cause even more harm and use some common sense in dealing with these kinds of situations! Common sense such as obtaining photos, videos and working with the police!

THINK about some of the things suggested here! Why would I be against that dye trap some seem to like so much? Well think OBJECTIVELY about it! Take a look at what might be a highly likely example of how that might go down,

The perp opens the gas cap door and gets sprayed with the dye, AHA, got'em didn't we! Well did you? Maybe so up to that point but is he just going to sheepishly walk away spending the next few days embarrassingly making it plain to everyone because of the dye stains that he was the thief? Well in the feel good version that some would like to believe and laugh about that's what would happen and it very well could BUT, it's much more likely the perp/victim would not be so co-operative! Picture this low-life getting hit with that dye, is he going to be embarrassed like the fantasy version suggests or highly (and likely violently) po'ed? He knows who did this to him and that person's car or truck is right in front of him, it's likely dark with the owner who set the trap nowhere around nor is there anyone else except for a couple of his buddies who by this time are laughing their butts off at him making him even more angry! THINK about this, is he just going to walk away or is he going to take a parting shot before he leaves? The owner discovers the next morning that his trap worked but what else does he see? Who got the last laugh?

Both versions of the results of that silly feel good prank are of course just made up fantasy but REALLY which one is more likely? All I am saying is that these kinds of things are likely to backfire in ways the owner never expected and are not likely to have the funny ending as depicted in the "feel good" version. All I am saying is to use common sense and OBEY THE LAW first then don't do silly pranks that are going to infuriate the perp when you are not going to be there to stop him from getting even which is very likely the first thought that will go through his head, consider the kind of people you are dealing with here! These "feel good" pranks may seem like a good idea here just talking about them but they won't seem so funny when it backfires, as it's likely to do, and the perp gets the last laugh!

[sureYnot]

Sometimes it's worth standing up for what's right.... Even when you know your government will unjustly punish you. This is how injustice is brought to light.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[oldred]

Sometimes it's worth standing up for what's right.... Even when you know your government will unjustly punish you. This is how injustice is brought to light

No one anywhere suggested not standing up to them, if so please point out where? Just use common sense and don't do something dumb that instead let's the perp come out on top, plus possibly subjecting someone to civil liability and/or possible jail time like some of these ill-thought out suggestions and "feel good" stories could easily do! That's all I have been suggesting but apparently some folks want to bash me for that -not that I care in the least.

[fatelk]

Sometimes it just brings more injustice that you can’t do anything about.

A guy I worked with years ago told me what happened to him. Someone was breaking into cars at night and stealing stuff. He just happened to hear something and got the jump on a couple of young punks, caught them red handed in his work van robbing him blind. He snuck up on them and fired a 12ga round into the air.

He called the cops, who arrested him for shooting his gun. He said the thieves got off scot free and he got a big fine. He was furious and not a thing he could do about it.

I suspect that a person might have been able to get away with these kind of things (traps and tricks) more in decades past. I think that in some ways people are more savvy now. For example, I knew a guy who was hassled on the street by some punks one evening. He said they were messing with him and physically threatening, so he pulled his shirt back in case he had to draw his gun. They got a glimpse of his pistol and left.

Later that night cops were at his door to arrest him. Apparently they had got his license plate number or something and called the cops to say he pulled a gun on them for no reason at all. The cops told him since they reported it and he didn’t, they had to assume he was the bad guy. It was he said/she said, so he didn’t get charged, but he did lose his CHL over it.

In both of those cases the bad guys got the last laugh. What the first guy did wrong was firing his gun when there was no imminent threat. What the second guy did wrong was to not report the altercation to the police asap. It stinks, but nowadays you have to not only know how to protect yourself physically, but also CYA legally by knowing exactly what you can and can’t get in trouble for.

[oldred]

Sometimes it just brings more injustice that you can’t do anything about.

A guy I worked with years ago told me what happened to him. Someone was breaking into cars at night and stealing stuff. He just happened to hear something and got the jump on a couple of young punks, caught them red handed in his work van robbing him blind. He snuck up on them and fired a 12ga round into the air.

He called the cops, who arrested him for shooting his gun. He said the thieves got off scot free and he got a big fine. He was furious and not a thing he could do about it.

I suspect that a person might have been able to get away with these kind of things (traps and tricks) more in decades past. I think that in some ways people are more savvy now. For example, I knew a guy who was hassled on the street by some punks one evening. He said they were messing with him and physically threatening, so he pulled his shirt back in case he had to draw his gun. They got a glimpse of his pistol and left.

Later that night cops were at his door to arrest him. Apparently they had got his license plate number or something and called the cops to say he pulled a gun on them for no reason at all. The cops told him since they reported it and he didn’t, they had to assume he was the bad guy. It was he said/she said, so he didn’t get charged, but he did lose his CHL over it.

In both of those cases the bad guys got the last laugh. What the first guy did wrong was firing his gun when there was no imminent threat. What the second guy did wrong was to not report the altercation to the police asap. It stinks, but nowadays you have to not only know how to protect yourself physically, but also CYA legally by knowing exactly what you can and can’t get in trouble for.

That covers it pretty well, as I have been saying all along just use common sense. A person is within their right in most locations to confront even a gas thief while armed (as long as the gun was legally owned) and also to use that gun as a means of self defense if attacked by the thief. HOWEVER it pretty much ends there, we can try and hold the perp at gunpoint until the cops arrive and it might very well work if the low life thinks you just might be mad enough to actually shoot but as said before if they just decide to laugh at us and walk off there's not much we can do legally. Tough talk about having them become a missing person might be fun to discuss here but in the real world it had better be taken very seriously! While it just might work and a person might get away with it we have to consider a few things, first the prisons are full of people who thought they could "get away with it" but every situation is different and it's too easy to overlook something that can get a person caught. Besides shooting someone for stealing gas is a bit extreme and some folks could very well come to serious grief after they have calmed down and realized what they have done even if within their legal rights, I am not saying it should never happen, that would depend on the circumstances, but it is an extremely serious matter that should take extremely serious consideration before doing something like that. Personally I would never shoot someone purely over a tank of gas, I might go to great lengths to stop them and see that they pay for their crime but I know that eventually I have to answer to a much higher authority than any of man's laws. For those who might scoff at such a reason that's Ok but they will still have to deal with what they have done as far as the law is concerned. That has been my whole point all along, do what we can within the law and use common sense, don't play silly games with these idiots because most likely they will win in the end no matter how much we might like to see funny endings to feel good stories here on these forums, in real life it rarely works out that way!

The bottom line is first obey the law, a person should never prod the perp into taking retaliatory action against them when they are not going to be around to prevent it despite the desire one might have to get "even", it usually will just end up being a case of needing to "get even" twice! And of course NEVER do anything as stupid as setting a booby trap that could land a person in jail!

There is a lot of wisdom to the old adage of "don't cut off your nose to spite your face" but that's exactly what some of these pranks and traps can easily become.

[hanleyfan]

I guess its where you live, around here in the hills if you rob people they shoot first and ask question second, in fact my neighbor told me the sheriff told him if he shot someone make sure he is dead because dead men tell no tales.

[oldred]

I guess its where you live, around here in the hills if you rob people they shoot first and ask question second, in fact my neighbor told me the sheriff told him if he shot someone make sure he is dead because dead men tell no tales.

Here we go again with another well worn tale! "The Sheriff told me to shoot" is one of the most common but that too is utter nonsense! In the first place no law officer nor the Sheriff can give you the right to shoot someone and a Sheriff who would say something as dumb as that old worn out line would have to be pretty stupid himself! Every situation is different and killing someone is obviously an extremely serious matter so any lawman, Sheriff or whomever that would say something that stupid could be in serious trouble if it could be proven against them!

This a good example of the old nonsense tales that some people actually believe and is exactly the kind of nonsense that ended up causing that guy I mentioned earlier and two others to go to prison when otherwise they would have been in the clear! Folks we need to be adults here and if discussing something as serious taking someone's life it should be discussed in a serious manner without referencing old tales and total nonsense such as the above!

[danthman114]

so did you find out who was stealing gas?

[Petrol & Powder]

Can we stop beating this dead horse ?

[Riverpigusmc]

Actually the police in Arlington Texas (after my truck was broken into) told me if it's after dark, shoot 'em then call. He showed me the Texas statutes about protecting property after dark. So, no, the above advice is NOT hard and fast

[oldred]

Actually the police in Arlington Texas (after my truck was broken into) told me if it's after dark, shoot 'em then call. He showed me the Texas statutes about protecting property after dark. So, no, the above advice is NOT hard and fast

I bet you can't find any such statute!


:EDIT: Ok I will have to take back water on that one, it actually is a law in Texas! Ya just gotta love them Texans!

[rl69]

In Texas, one can use deadly force not just to protect a person, but also to protect personal property, including to “retrieve stolen property at night,” during “criminal mischief in the nighttime” and even to prevent someone who is fleeing immediately after a theft during the night or a burglary or robbery, so long as ...Jul 24, 2013
Three Self-Defense Laws That Could Be Even Worse Than Stand ...

[rl69]

The acquittal of George Zimmerman has reignited the national conversation about so-called “Stand Your Ground” laws that authorize deadly force in self-defense anywhere a person has a legal right to be, without a duty to mitigate the harm by attempting retreat. The Trayvon Martin killing and many other fatal shootings are raising deeply troubling questions about what sort of civilian vigilantism, discrimination, and arbitrary judgment is authorized by laws that put discretion into the hands of civilians.

But the notorious Stand Your Ground provision is one of several that give broad discretion to civilians to use inordinate force in self-defense. Below are three other force-empowering provisions that are just as, if not even more, expansive:

1. Texas: Deadly Force In Defense Of Personal Property.
Stand Your Ground laws authorize deadly force not just when an individual has reasonable fear of death; but also for fear of great bodily harm or a “forcible felony.” In many states, these provisions are potentially authorizing disproportionate force in response to a fear of crimes as low-level as third-degree assault or robbery. But even these crimes involve injury to a person.

Advertisement

Texas is different. In Texas, one can use deadly force not just to protect a person, but also to protect personal property, including to “retrieve stolen property at night,” during “criminal mischief in the nighttime” and even to prevent someone who is fleeing immediately after a theft during the night or a burglary or robbery, so long as the individual “reasonably” thinks the property cannot be protected by other means. This law recently garnered attention when lawyers used the provision to defend a man acquitted in the deadly shooting of an escort who refused to have sex with him. In other cases, the law has been the basis for not pressing charges against individuals who shoot and kill suspected car burglars, and an individual suspected of stealing copper wiring from a car. It is worth noting that some other states authorize the use of force to protect personal property, but not deadly force.

2. Indiana: Right To Shoot The Police.
Last year, Indiana became the first and only state to enact an NRA-backed law that specifically allows civilian force against law enforcement officers and other “public servants” when they are engaging in “unlawful activity.” The statute came in response to a court ruling that held the exact opposite — that individuals could not use deadly force to protect against a police intrusion, even if they questioned the legality of the intrusion.

The law authorizes “reasonable force” against any unlawful entry or trespass by police, and even deadly force to prevent serious bodily injury and what the shooter deems unlawful activity. While the allowance for deadly force is narrow, police have expressed serious concern that an occupant of a home confronting a police break-in will not be able to properly assess, in the heat of the moment, whether or not the officer entered the home pursuant to a lawful warrant or other public safety exception authorized by the U.S. Constitution, and whether that officer poses a legitimate danger.

3. Majority Of States: The Expanded Castle Doctrine.
Stand Your Ground laws and other expanded self-defense provisions all derived from the old English common law concept that individuals have a right to defend their homes. The original “Castle Doctrine” gave individuals a right to protect their home against intruders, even if that meant using deadly force. Because they were protecting their home, courts carved out an exception to the general rule that individuals protecting themselves must first attempt to mitigate the harm, or “retreat,” so that an individual would not be forced to retreat from their own home.

Advertisement

Stand Your Ground laws that expand that “no duty to retreat” concept to anywhere an individual has a right to be have been described as an expansion of the Castle Doctrine. But they are not the only expansion passed in countless states. Many states have also incorporated into their laws similar authority to use deadly force in protection of their “occupied vehicles” or offices, and have expanded the conception of the home to include not just the house but the curtilage — a legal term for the property surrounding the house. While Stand Your Ground laws confer the right to use deadly force to protect against a forcible felony anywhere someone has a right to be, individuals can use deadly force against much less when one is defending their home, vehicle, or office. In a number of states, the law presumes a reasonable fear of imminent peril or death if an individual is unlawfully entering an occupant’s home, car, or office. The expanded Castle Doctrine has been used to justify a shooting against a burglary of a neighbor’s home, and the fatal shooting of a 20-year-old who walked onto a neighbor’s porch to escape a potential police bust of underaged drinking. And just this week, a Virginia woman shot at a car that used her driveway to turn around on the highway — an intrusion she argues is an unlawful entry onto her property.

https://thinkprogress.org/three-self-defense-laws-that-could-be-even-worse-than-stand-your-ground-b425742ff724/

[rl69]

Diferent sight
https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/texas-sec-9-42-deadly-force-to-protect-property/

[fatelk]

A little off topic, or at least going in a little different direction: a lot of people seem to think that things like petty theft and vandalism are "kid stuff" that young people will do, and it's relatively harmless stuff that they'll outgrow.

Growing up on the farm we saw it all. Every small farm typically has a fuel tank or two. As least a couple times that we know of, someone was helping themselves to it. Once my dad caught a guy walking up the driveway in the dark with a gas can. He surprised the guy and he took off, leaving the gas can. A couple other times we got our mailbox smashed in the middle of the night. My dad was talking to a neighbor one time and the guy dismissed this kind of stuff as "kid stuff", no big deal. He said, heck, he used to do the same kind of stuff when he was young. Need gas for your car? A farmer won't miss a few gallons.

My dad told me later how he instantly lost some respect for that neighbor, and that if he ever heard of me doing any of that kind of "kid stuff", I would be in major trouble. Not that I ever would have. I was raised better than that.

[bob208]

pa. is a stand your ground state also protect your castle.

[Riverpigusmc]

I hate it when people refer to police as anything other than "civilians". They are neither commissioned or enlisted in the military.

[Down South]

When I was working away from home for 8 yrs not so long ago. "Retired last week" I was worried that thieves would break into my house when away for weeks on end.
I started out with a Canary in my living room then added two more, one on my back patio and one in my boat house.
You don't have to worry about someone stealing the camera because before they can spot it, the footage has already been uploaded to the Cloud for your viewing from any place at anytime.

I removed the boat house cam and replaced it with a Ring floodlight cam. I had video of people coming up to my boathouse at night, getting out on the boathouse and fishing around my underwater green light.
I realized that these people didn't know they were being recorded so that's the reason for the floodlight cam. I also posted signs on three sides of my boat house stating "WARNING: 24 HR VIDEO SURVEILLANCE VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED" I've had no problem since I did that. Actually hardly anyone even fishes around my boathouse anymore which is legal.

I moved the Canary camera from the boat house to one side of my house then, I added a Ring Doorbell cam. I've got five cameras up and operating now and I catch some weird stuff.
All of my cameras record voice and I can speak through any of my cameras too. The one in my living room and the one at the boat house have audible alarms if I choose to set them off.
If anyone comes near this place, I have a video of them. The drawbacks are the cameras are sensitive. I have videos of spiders, bugs flying past the camera, etc.

Oh, if I have a power outage, all of my cameras are on battery backup except the floodlight cam at the boathouse. My WiFi is on battery backup as well.

Now getting back to your idea of a game cam. I had one set up at my RV in Houston. It was camo and I mounted it about 7' up in a tree looking down at an angle. It lasted until I left and worked well but all you get is pics unless you set it up for video. The problem with just pics is the person may have their head turned when it takes the pic.
If you plan to check it often, Vid will work best but it will use a lot more memory and power. You can now get game cams that upload to the cloud but they could be pricey plus you would need some sort of wireless plan and signal.

[smokeywolf]

I hate it when people refer to police as anything other than "civilians". They are neither commissioned or enlisted in the military.

Riverpigusmc,
Not to put too fine a point on it, but in law enforcement organizations and departments, you have "sworn personnel" and "non-sworn personnel". That's where the distinction between police or deputies and "civilians" comes from.

As a one time police officer and now just an old fart, as militarized as some of the departments have become and having a few conversations with some of the youngsters who run around my town in deputy's uniforms and combat boots, I kind of share your feelings.

[tomme boy]

A lot has changed over the years. My better half's father was telling me about when they would "mark" a car or truck. This would come straight from the sheriff. They lived out in the country and they did not have 911 at the time. They pretty much relied on neighbors to protect each other.

Several times he told me that had to go to other farms to look why he seen cars or trucks at night driving around. At that time lots of the farms were just barns that machinery were stored where he was at. Well all of these places also had large tanks of gas also. And everyone knew this. So he would call the Sheriff and tell them someone was snooping around at such and such place and he was going to take a look. Well the Sheriff told him if it was not the owner to "mark" the car or truck. That was to put a hole in it! He said he probably shot 4 or 5 over the years.

So it just depends on the time frame and area of the country. This would NEVER fly today!

[lightman]

I still think the best move would be to set up cameras and get Law Enforcement involved. It would be very satisfying to catch them in the act and work them over with a ball bat. But they probably would eventually come back and damage your car or property. And like oldred stated several times, the homeowner will get in trouble, not the crook.