NOE Announces More Pellet Moulds

[rsterne]

I have been working with Al Nelson at NOE Moulds to increase the number of pellet moulds available so that airgunners can cast their own pellets, reducing the cost per shot.... These designs are based on the successful .25 and .30 cal moulds that NOE already have available, with a round-nosed design with a 60% meplat that makes the pellet hit harder, and is required for the nose-pour style moulds that NOE is producing.... They are using their proven "RG" pin system to provide three different depths of base cavity so that you can fine tune the weight and CG location for what works best in your gun.... As part of this major entry into supplying Diabolo style (waisted) pellets, NOE have decided to name the pellets to make their use clear.... The existing .25 and .30 cal moulds, because they were designed at the heavy end of the spectrum within each caliber will be called "Magnum Hunter" pellets, and that series will now be expanded to cover .22, .35 and .45 calibers.... There were requests for shorter, lighter pellets in .25 and .30 cal, and that will be available in the new "Hunter" series, covering those calibers, plus .22 cal as well.... In addition, a .22 cal Wadcutter design will complete the line-up, dubbed a "Target" pellet....

First of all, here are the two existing designs, currently available in the NOE Online Store....

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2025%20cal%20Magnum_zpspc4kobh9.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2025%20cal%20Magnum_zpspc4kobh9.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2030%20cal%20Magnum_zpswkkt02zd.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2030%20cal%20Magnum_zpswkkt02zd.jpg.html)

Here are the new lighter weight offerings in these two calibers....

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2025%20cal%20Hunter_zps4zzxpacd.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2025%20cal%20Hunter_zps4zzxpacd.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2030%20cal%20Hunter_zpscwrppghz.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2030%20cal%20Hunter_zpscwrppghz.jpg.html)

and here are the new .35 and .45 cal designs.... It is planned to offer the .45 cal in 0.452" and 0.457" head diameters....

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2035%20cal%20Magnum_zpsopkmug3g.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2035%20cal%20Magnum_zpsopkmug3g.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2045%20cal%20Magnum_zpscykndwkx.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2045%20cal%20Magnum_zpscykndwkx.jpg.html)

Finally, here is the new .22 cal line-up of NOE pellets....

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Target_zpsfvejpdht.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Target_zpsfvejpdht.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Hunter_zpse83blix7.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Hunter_zpse83blix7.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Magnum_zpswxf0vlqf.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Magnum_zpswxf0vlqf.jpg.html)

As I understand it, Al plans to produce these designs ASAP and place the moulds in the store without using Group Buys.... This will reduce the time required for the new pellets to proceed through the NOE system.... I will of course keep you informed as each new pellet mould is ready for purchase....

Bob

[Hickory]

There seems to be a lot of options and opportunities for light centerfire loads for pest dispatch.

[MUSTANG]

A .177 mold/s would be nice for those of us who feed Grand Kids Air Rifles.

[HollowPoint]

The .22 caliber offerings are great news to me. I've made by own pellet molds and pellet swaging dies with some success but that success is short lived when you consider that beyond 25 yards my DIY pellets tend to loose their accuracy pretty fast.

The twenty grain hunter pellet looks interesting. I'm wondering if this same design can be had with a shallow hollow point so as to possibly bring the weight down to 18.5 or even 19 grains or maybe having a slightly deeper skirt-hollow depth the those pictured?

I'll have to visit that website again just to get caught up on what's new with cast pellets. Any idea exactly when these new pellet offerings will be available? My Umarex Gauntlet can stack the 18 grain pellets one on top of another at the slightly higher velocity I've gotten it to shoot at so I'm thinking that the midsized domed .22 caliber pellet might be just the ticket for me not having to buy any more 18 grain pellets from vendors.


HollowPoint

[rsterne]

NOE have found making the tooling to cut the cavities for .22 cal pellets "challenging", so the even narrower waist on a .177 pellet is likely not going to happen....

These pellets are a "nose-pour" design in order to incorporate the hollow base.... so HP is not possible when casting.... Combining both a HP and HB is something you will have to continue to swage....

Bob

[HollowPoint]

As long as they'll shoot as accurately as the 18 grain jumbo heavies I can live without the hollow point. I just thought it would be nice if I could get the domed NOE offerings down to 18 or 18.5 grains it might duplicate the accuracy I'm getting now with the store bought pellets. I don't think the 18.5 grain wadcutters would be as accurate out beyond fifty yards; especially traveling in the high 900fps range.

Who knows, it may be that the 20 grain pellets might be even more accurate than the 18 grain pellets.

How long before these pellet molds start selling? Any idea?

HollowPoint

[35 shooter]

rsterne

Thanks for your involvement in all of this in making easy to get moulds for air gunners a reality. Looks like exciting times ahead.
I really am pleased to hear all this.

[rsterne]

They won't all appear at the same time.... I think the .22 cal Magnum Hunter will be next.... I understand Al plans to make all the tooling one after the other, then it will depend on the availability of the mill when they make the moulds....

Bob

[HollowPoint]

It sounds like it will be a long time before we see anything on their shelves for sale. I guess I jumped the gun then. I told all of our Umarex Octane shooters group about these molds being in the pipe line. I may have sounded like it was just a short matter of time before they were available.

I'm thinking that if or when they do become available they should be a real hit; assuming they produce accurate pellets. We have a little over three hundred members in our Umarex Octane shooters group and some of them have begun venturing into the Umarex Gauntlet PCP arena. Virtually everyone there who has tried the 18 grain jumbo heavies has reported stellar accuracy with them compared to the lighter weight pellets so if the NOE offerings can match their accuracy even those who are presently not bullet casters will then have an incentive to start casting their own pellets.

Just think of it; never having to buy pellets again. This is of course if you have a good source of lead with which to make your pellets. My stash of Lead ingots would equate to maybe two life times worth of pellets. That's if I were only using my stash to make pellets.

HollowPoint

[35 shooter]

Will the skirts on the .22 .25 and.30 noe pellets be the right fit for the run of the mill pump or break bbl. air rifles?

[Fly]

That sounds great if there accurate. My problem would be shelling out the cash for a mold & it not group. I cast all my bullets & have
for years. I would jump on a good pellet mold if they shoot with R&S, H&N & JSB,s.

Fly

[rsterne]

The skirt and head sizes on these pellets are the same as what JSB uses.... As you all know, not every pellet groups in every airgun, some prefer JSB, some H&N and some Crosman…. While we would hope that these pellet will work well in every airgun.... not even JSB manages that....

Bob

[HollowPoint]

"Will the skirts on the .22 .25 and.30 noe pellets be the right fit for the run of the mill pump or break bbl. air rifles?"

This was my concern as well. I did notice the dimensions in the diagrams. It would be a simple matter for me to build a pellet skirt sizer. The head of the pellets appears to be similar to what my air guns prefer but, on some of the lighter pellets that I've had to size the skirts down on, they sometimes don't seemed to group quite as consistently as those pellets with skirts that needed no altering. Since these diagrams are just that, diagrams, perhaps the final product will reflect a skirt diameter that fits a more generally dimensioned air gun than maybe some specific lines of high end air guns. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

"That sounds great if there accurate. My problem would be shelling out the cash for a mold & it not group. I cast all my bullets & have
for years. I would jump on a good pellet mold if they shoot with R&S, H&N & JSB,s."

My sentiments exactly. I own three different NOE bullet molds and each one of them has delivered the goods in terms of accuracy after some fine tuning. I'm hoping that these .22 caliber pellet molds will also live up to the NOE quality. Still, I'm wondering if maybe we can get hold of some sample pellets before laying out the cash for the going price for these pellet molds. I'd love nothing better than to be able to make my own high quality, high accuracy pellets.

I suspect that in reality (and just like with bullet molds used for powder burning guns) the pellets produced by these molds will work extremely well in some air guns, mediocre in others and poorly in a certain percentage of air guns. I think since it will be a while till their available, I'll start saving my spare change for a possible purchase. I'll never know if they're going to work unless I try them in my air guns. Even then I think it might be wise to wait till the reviews are in. I love the idea of .22 caliber pellet molds of this type. It's been a long time coming. I hope it turns out to be a real money maker for NOE. This way we can look forward to more pellet mold ideas down the road.

HollowPoint

[rsterne]

The skirts on all airgun pellets are from 0.007-0.010" larger than the head diameter.... This is intentional, and the way all pellets are designed.... The skirt is thin and easily conforms to the bore of your barrel.... When fired, it expands, and the pellet no longer resembles what it did when you loaded it.... Here is a picture of what happens on firing....

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Ballistics/Pellet%20Obturation_zpsyzq1fbkq.png (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Ballistics/Pellet%20Obturation_zpsyzq1fbkq.png.html)

The pellets on the left have been fired, the ones on the right were pushed through the bore with a dowel.... These are JSB Exacts.... The shape of the skirt after firing depends on the peak pressure of the firing pulse, and the diameter of the bore.... and there is no standard diameter for airgun barrels.... Pellets are designed to compensate for the wide range of diameters and tolerances in the industry.... This is the reason that the same pellet may have a radically different BC when fired from two different guns.... It is also the reason that guns are "pellet picky" and prefer one pellet over another....

Bob

[Fly]

Bob I,m thinking as HP in if we could buy a tin or small amount of pellets to try it would help.

Fly

[mortarfire]

Good idea. I will try the 25 and maybe the 22. Any idea what the mold will cost? (ballpark figure)

[rsterne]

2 cavity moulds are $103 and 4 cavity moulds are $133.... They come with 4 sets of pins to make the 4 different weights....

Bob

[35 shooter]

The 22 mag. moulds are for sale now, so some reports should be coming out soon. Lol, regardless of that though, i’ll be one of the first to try the 22 hunter moulds to come out.
I just wish he would add round ball moulds to his list one day for those that like them.

[HollowPoint]

I guess I'll be holding out till they get the midweight pellet molds ready to ship. The ones that are ready now are the heavier of the bunch. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that 24 grains is a little heavier than I need for my preferred shooting environment. (my back yard)

Incidentally, I measured the skirts of a random sampling of my store bought pellets and it averaged out to approximately .222". In the grand scheme of things a skirt diameter that is .002" larger than this may not amount to much. It may effect velocities if you shoot an air rifle with a chocked bore. The smallest skirts I measured came in at .217" and the largest came in at the .222" I mentioned before.

The chamber of my Umarex Gauntlet must be tight compared to other Gauntlets cause with the larger skirt diameter it requires a bit more effort to get the pellets into battery. This leave a slight accumulation of lead shavings at the mouth of the chamber over time. As long as I stay on top of it there's no problem; and I get excellent accuracy to boot.

When compared to the price of the regular bullet molds, I think the prices being asked are kind of steep but if they'll put out some accurate shooting pellets I'll still be buying one. I'll just have to wait and see.

HollowPoint

[rsterne]

The additional cost is because of the RG pins required to form the hollow base.... The prices are the same as for bullets with a hollow point from NOE....

Bob

[Boolseye]

this is very cool. I believe the "hunter" style, lighter-weight pellets will work in non-magnum springers, which happen to be my choice for target and small game. The .22 target mould also interests me.

[HollowPoint]

NOE have found making the tooling to cut the cavities for .22 cal pellets "challenging", so the even narrower waist on a .177 pellet is likely not going to happen....

These pellets are a "nose-pour" design in order to incorporate the hollow base.... so HP is not possible when casting.... Combining both a HP and HB is something you will have to continue to swage....

Bob

Just curious about this dilemma. I can see how the thin wasp-waist of these pellet geometries would make designing the cherries for such a mold kind of difficult. I can also envision that cutter snapping clean off due to its' very small diameter at the waist. So how did they arrive at a solution?

In order to mitigate the chance of breakage it seems that they either had to make two separate cherries, one to cut the head of the pellet and one to cut the skirt in order to get around the potential breaking of that narrow waisted cherry/cutter or, they had to take some ultra shallow depths of cut in order to dish out the shape of these pellets; or both of the above. This is one of the reasons that the pellet making attempts I tried only got me as far as being able to cut my cavities in more of a spitzer shaped hollow based pellet.


HollowPoint

[idahoron]

There seems to be a lot of options and opportunities for light centerfire loads for pest dispatch.

I was asked to gun on 7 farms this year. Not one of them would allow a powder burner of any kind. One farmer told another and he told another. I had more rock chuck shooting than I had time for. I shot 250 this year with my Air Arms TX200.

https://i.imgur.com/Iwqnj7T.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/joVMsSD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/17BMDzJ.jpg

[rsterne]

I understand the pellet cherry is one piece.... In the case of the .22 cal pellet, the waist is 0.164" and the head is 0.217", so the difference is 0.053".... If you subtract that from the waist you get 0.111", so if the waist of the cherry is 0.100" (just a guess), the nose of the cutter would be 0.153", and you could drill a 5/32" hole (0.156") nearly through the mould block and the nose of the cherry would clear that hole when inserted from the bottom.... and then interpolated (spiralled) outwards to the finished diameter.... I'm pretty sure these pellet cavities are machined from the bottom, through the hole for the RG pin.... which is probably machined first to the diameter of the RG pin (which is larger than the pellet skirt diameter)….

At least that is how I think they are made.... :roll:

Bob

[clodhopper]

These molds will be a great asset to the air gun industry. Suddenly a 30 cal springer could be in my future.
I would pay handsomely for a 30 cal rifle incorporating mechanical recoil cancellation.

Right now, a 22 caliber hunter mold would make me wave my credit card at Al.

[GARD72977]

This is going to push me over the edge on a 30 cal or 35 cal air gun.

[HollowPoint]

I understand the pellet cherry is one piece.... In the case of the .22 cal pellet, the waist is 0.164" and the head is 0.217", so the difference is 0.053".... If you subtract that from the waist you get 0.111", so if the waist of the cherry is 0.100" (just a guess), the nose of the cutter would be 0.153", and you could drill a 5/32" hole (0.156") nearly through the mould block and the nose of the cherry would clear that hole when inserted from the bottom.... and then interpolated (spiralled) outwards to the finished diameter.... I'm pretty sure these pellet cavities are machined from the bottom, through the hole for the RG pin.... which is probably machined first to the diameter of the RG pin (which is larger than the pellet skirt diameter)….

At least that is how I think they are made.... :roll:

Bob

That makes sense.

HollowPoint

[MT Chambers]

I shoot a lot of airguns and felt that I had to comment, I have 3 molds for the airguns, 2 are pellets and 1 is a slug. The NOE plans are great and I am waiting to pick up a short .25 cal. mold from them. Only one small fly in the ointment, none of the molds show equal accuracy to the std. pellets that are from the big names(usually JSB or H&N), close but no cigar. I have played with diff. weights, alloys, etc. I will carry on playing with the cast pellets because they have the potential to save a lot of money, esp. with the .25 and the .30.

[HollowPoint]

I shoot a lot of airguns and felt that I had to comment, I have 3 molds for the airguns, 2 are pellets and 1 is a slug. The NOE plans are great and I am waiting to pick up a short .25 cal. mold from them. Only one small fly in the ointment, none of the molds show equal accuracy to the std. pellets that are from the big names(usually JSB or H&N), close but no cigar. I have played with diff. weights, alloys, etc. I will carry on playing with the cast pellets because they have the potential to save a lot of money, esp. with the .25 and the .30.

I don't want to come off sounding like a smart-alec but, having the hands on experience that you have with your 2/3 pellet molds, can you offer up any ideas as to why you don't seem to be getting the kind of accuracy alot of us get with some of the store bought heavy pellets? Is it a "Swaged" versus "Cast-Pellets" thing that's possibly giving you unequal accuracy?

I don't have the answers. I'm just wondering. It seems that the store bought pellets are swaged more often than not and I'm wondering if this is a critical difference. Also; might it be the quality of the molds? Again, I'm just asking cause I don't have a clue if your present pellet molds were made by NOE or some other maker. All the mold makers I know of offer quality products so, I'm just wondering out loud.

I always thought that because my home made pellet swaging dies or molds were made by an inexperienced maker like myself I had only myself to blame for not getting more accuracy out of the pellets I've made with them. These NOE molds are said to be "Nose-Pour" molds. What this means to me is that because the critical dimensions of the pellet skirts will be formed at the bottom of the mold, the fragile pellet skits won't be subjected the kind of dinging or distortion like that of the skirts of my home made pellets. Mine are made tail-up and the pellet heads down. This means I have to cut the sprue/tails with a sharp razor blade. This process yields pellet bases with many microscopic differences.

With cast bullets it's said that the base of the bullet is the critical part of the bullet in terms of accuracy. The nose of the bullet, not as much but still important. I have to believe that in a sense, pellets are no different.

Are the pellet molds you're using now of the "Nose-Pour" type? Overall my questions are an attempt at figuring out if these upcoming NOE pellets molds are maybe to good to be true or if they'll live up to the performance levels that my three NOE bullet molds have delivered. If the molds you're using now are NOE pellet molds of some type then perhaps this is to good to be true. If they are not made by NOE, then there's still a very good chance that they'll live up to the NOE quality reputation.

HollowPoint

[MT Chambers]

There's no question that the NOE molds including the pellet ones I have are top notch molds and prolly couldn't be made any better, I think that the swaged pellets made by the better outfits, have been made and tested for accuracy for many years, including Olympic competition. My HWs, Daystate, and Air Arms guns, both PCPs and springers can shoot one hole groups with their preferred pellets, they won't do the same with anything that I cast(yet).

[HollowPoint]

It's just mind bending that with quality being equal, the manufactured and store bought pellets seem to outshoot what we can make on our own or what we cast from high tolerance professionally made pellet molds.

There has to be some hard to see or discern details of one versus the other that makes some better than others in terms of performance. I have only two break barrels and one budget PCP and all three will shoot the 18 grain store bought pellets more accurately than any other pellets I've tried. I'll still be watching with interest what comes of these NOE offerings. Hopefully it will surprise all of us in a positive way.

HollowPoint

[Boolseye]

Idahoron, that is some impressive work.

[melloairman]

This might give some insight on some of the problems .Marvin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur6iIcVhHmM&index=13&list=WL&t=679s

[idahoron]

Idahoron, that is some impressive work.

That was about half of them for that day. I shot 250 Rock Chucks this year on several farms. 190 came off of one farm alone. That farmer lost $10,000 in beans last year. I increased his income this year.

https://i.imgur.com/Iwqnj7T.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/17BMDzJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YnVzYnh.jpg

[mattw]

Wow, that looks like so much fun! I used to shoot a bunch of groundhogs at our farm when I was young. They make a hole that can break an axle and they eat beans like nothing I have seen.

[rsterne]

I just got off the phone with Al, and he asked me to supply him with drawings for .25 cal and .30 cal Target pellets, similar to what I did above in .22 cal (based on the Hunter design but a wadcutter).... Looks like he is really committed to producing a variety of moulds for airgun pellets.... 8-)

Bob

[35 shooter]

Sounds like more good news to me!

[GARD72977]

Alright I just ordered a Hatsan carnivore in 30 Cal. Any ideas about Which molds will be the right length for the magazine. I'm going to be shooting mostly at 50 yds so pellet weight should not be much of a concern (within reason)

I love the idea of casting 30Cal pellets. I can retain all my lead so endless fun!

My neighbor called the police because I was shooting an airsoft pistol. I expect the swat team to show up when I fire this big boy off. Can't wait!

[rsterne]

All three of the .30 cal pellets are designed to fit in the Hatsan mags.... I would suggest you try the Hunter when it comes out, the Magnum Hunter at 59-66 gr. may be a bit heavy for the Carnivore.... unless you tune it up....

Bob

[35 shooter]

Alright I just ordered a Hatsan carnivore in 30 Cal. Any ideas about Which molds will be the right length for the magazine. I'm going to be shooting mostly at 50 yds so pellet weight should not be much of a concern (within reason)

I love the idea of casting 30Cal pellets. I can retain all my lead so endless fun!

My neighbor called the police because I was shooting an airsoft pistol. I expect the swat team to show up when I fire this big boy off. Can't wait!
I was thinking of doing the very same thing. Looking hard at the new Hatsan 130.... i’ve Seen reports of a bit over 600 FPS. with the 46 gr. pellets in that one.
Not bad for a break bbl. 30 cal.

Please give a report on it when you get it! Especially the 50 yd. accuracy.

[Boolseye]

I’m thinking that .25 wadcutter at 22 grains may be the best bet for my Hatsan 1000x. Opinions? I think it would be very effective squirrel medicine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rsterne]

Certainly hit hard at closer ranges.... but it will lose velocity and energy faster than the Hunter, of course....

Bob

[GARD72977]

I’m thinking that .25 wadcutter at 22 grains may be the best bet for my Hatsan 1000x. Opinions? I think it would be very effective squirrel medicine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My experience with wadcutter pellets is limited to 177. They seem to do better at lower velocity. I had a PCP silhouette pistol that would shoot pretty accurrate to 40yds , but trajectory was really bad.

[LongRangeAir]

I Lurk here, to learn better casting methods, and new innovations. However, I would strongly suggest taking a good look at the link provided by Mello.
I was excited to see an Airgun section here a long time back, and was wholly disappointed to see it was then discouraged, even scoffed at, to even think about casting for airguns. Even though a member here had been successfully shooting long range (hundreds of yards) for years. A And willing to share his knowledge as to how and why.

The Link provided by Mello will hopefully turn a light on in what seems to be a complete misunderstanding of what airguns and projectiles are capable today. I was shocked at the lack of practical knowledge on the subject here.

For instance. Why are NOE molds over priced for a pellet mold. Well, it is the construction.

Why aren't the NOE castings as accurate as store bought pellets. In the first place, there is no such thing as a premium store bought pellet available much of anywhere in the US that is a true premium pellet. The top hunting and long range pellets are from JSB. Period. Not Crosman, Not Benjamin, (Same company, Not Gamo.

We all know how hard it is to cast very small bullets. Pellet are much-much harder due to the very thin skirt. If you can cast a good quality pellet, regardless from what, you are a True Pro Caster!

To expect the everyday caster to match the top, most researched, most tested pellets from the top pellet swaging company in Europe, is folly. Come on Guys!

I suggest often, budding pellet and slug casters for High power AirGuns to come to Cast Boolits to learn the craft. I would advise the same to the airgunners here.
Take a Trip over to the GateWay to Airguns and open your minds. Lots to learn there. For Instance, just for an eye opener, there is no such thing as a high power, high velocity springer airgun that works for anything much past 1- 20 yards A pellet cannot by design stay stable in the transonic range for more than a few yards. Much less at anything approaching a decent distance. Break the sound barrier, and all bets are off.

A good PCP can shoot under an inch at 100 yards. Shoot a good bbl, with a good bullet, and 1/2" and under are very common. Not even the most expensive springers can do this. You will also note that none of the top quality airguns advertize velocity. None. They all know that hyped velocity numbers are for trappint the unwarry at the typical Big Box Stores. Such guns are pure junk. Pure an simple.

Read, research, listen, and don't assume anything is magic. It's not.

One thing that always bothered me. I love the Blackout. Why have so many had such a lackluster accuracy from them. If I can shoot regularly 3/8# at 100 yards, and 1/4" ctc from my custom Talon/Dor look!/Dor .257 with 110 NOE spire point bullets, Lyman/Ideal .257 338, and 3/4 from the 84 grain NOE Ranch dog bullets. Is there still an issues with the Blackout?

A good friend of mine who shoots long range with both bullet shooting ag's and his black out, has no issues what so ever shooting 1/2 moa at 200 yards with his Talon/Dor or 1 moa and less at 100 yards.



Haven't looked at the Black out results in over a year here. Would assume it has been conquered here?

Everybody can learn! As Mello suggested,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur6i...list=WL&t=679s

[LongRangeAir]

For better visuals of what happens whe a wasted pellet is shot in excess of 880 to 930 fpe, this can be eyeopening. The faster the pellet is fired, the worse the unstability.

although not shot at the speeds of many from the big box store ag's, the effects are already horrendous. You can imagine what the results are going to be like with them. Can you hit a tin can at 10 yards withone. Probably. With some pellets. Can you take out the O in a Tomato soup can at 30 to 50 yards. No. At 60 yards, be lucky to hit the bag the can come in from the store. LOL!

Now who here depends solely on luck in their loads and shooting?

For your viewing pleasure, go to minute 4.35 and beyond for an eye opening education into the merits or lack thereof in high velocity pellet shooting. And its tomfoolery. Linky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z3YNLBs8Lo

[LongRangeAir]

For insight as to what happens with too much velocity with pellets at 100 yards,

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFou_4VqLBY

[HollowPoint]

Your comments and the comments on the video are generally true but not true across the board. The video in question showcases a .177 caliber shooting ultra high velocities with very light weight pellets. My .22 caliber PCP shoots the 14 grainers with velocities hovering around the 950fps range. I get consistent accuracy out to 75 yards without any of the cork-screwing flight paths that are depicted by some as worse-case-scenario high velocity pellet shooting.

My shooting range near the inner city is limited to 75 yards tops so I cannot attest to my accuracy beyond that distance. At any rate; because I too have believed the assessment of the high-velocity equals low-accuracy theory, this is really why my interest was peaked when I heard of the pellet molds being offered by NOE.

There are a few things you can do to counter the loss of accuracy if that lack of accuracy can truly be attributed to your velocity being to high. One, if possible, is to lower the air output on your regulator so as to in effect, lower the velocity of the pellet. (like it was done in the video) The other, if possible, is to switch to a heavier pellet. This too will lower the velocity; and in many instances it may increase the accuracy of the pellets being shot. At least that's what I'm hoping for if or when NOE finally releases the mold that produces the 20 grain pellet. I have no intention of lowering the velocity of my PCP, especially after all the time it took to figure out how to safely raise the velocity. I'm already getting good reliable accuracy with the lighter cheaper Crosman Premier 14 grainers.

I'm hoping to be able to shoot the 18-20 grain pellets in the 900fps range. If I can get them to shoot in the mid-900s, that would be even better.

HollowPoint

[Anschutz]

Interesting. My grandmother used to have a huge problem with squirrels getting into her bird feeders. Wadcutters were excellent at those close ranges with a match air rifle. I probably killed 30-50 in high school with it. All headshots and no cripples getting away. No exits either but my thinking was with as little energy as I had, I needed full transfer of energy. It was accurate enough to kit out to 40 yards or so but on the one time I did shoot at one that far it only gave it a headache. I've never tested wadcutters out of more powerful, accurate airguns. I'd imagine that a 25 cal wadcutter would ruin a raccoon size animals day at close range. Reduction of overpenetration would also make it viable when you don't want to damage things behind it like sheds and playgrounds.

[MT Chambers]

I have used a new .25 cal. hunter mold and results are premature but accuracy equals my bought pellets. I def. recommend this mold, the blocks are std. size and of course the pellet is comparatively small so it requires a thorough heat up before you start casting

[35 shooter]

I have used a new .25 cal. hunter mold and results are premature but accuracy equals my bought pellets. I def. recommend this mold, the blocks are std. size and of course the pellet is comparatively small so it requires a thorough heat up before you start casting Now that is good news.

[HollowPoint]

Let's hope the rest of the upcoming molds will rival the accuracy of store bought heavies.

HollowPoint

[camp]

Looking forward to the .30 cal pellets, i have been shooting pellets out of my 30 06 with a shotgun primer and this will make it really cost effective

[nvreloader]

There is some good info, of a person that is casting and shooting 22 cal/25 caliber pellets,
using the NOE molds, and having very good results with them, see the info here,
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148717.0
He goes by the GTA forum name of Wayne52,
I do not know if he is a member here.

I am getting the lighter hunter 22 cal, as I know it will fit all 22 cal mag/AR I have,
and will have to learn to cast pellets, a new chapter in my book. LOL

HTH,

Tia,
Don

[steveoh]

Hey Bob,

Is Noe going to offer the .45 pellet? I roamed around Noe and their forum but found no mention.

Steveoh


I have been working with Al Nelson at NOE Moulds to increase the number of pellet moulds available so that airgunners can cast their own pellets, reducing the cost per shot.... These designs are based on the successful .25 and .30 cal moulds that NOE already have available, with a round-nosed design with a 60% meplat that makes the pellet hit harder, and is required for the nose-pour style moulds that NOE is producing.... They are using their proven "RG" pin system to provide three different depths of base cavity so that you can fine tune the weight and CG location for what works best in your gun.... As part of this major entry into supplying Diabolo style (waisted) pellets, NOE have decided to name the pellets to make their use clear.... The existing .25 and .30 cal moulds, because they were designed at the heavy end of the spectrum within each caliber will be called "Magnum Hunter" pellets, and that series will now be expanded to cover .22, .35 and .45 calibers.... There were requests for shorter, lighter pellets in .25 and .30 cal, and that will be available in the new "Hunter" series, covering those calibers, plus .22 cal as well.... In addition, a .22 cal Wadcutter design will complete the line-up, dubbed a "Target" pellet....

First of all, here are the two existing designs, currently available in the NOE Online Store....

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2025%20cal%20Magnum_zpspc4kobh9.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2025%20cal%20Magnum_zpspc4kobh9.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2030%20cal%20Magnum_zpswkkt02zd.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2030%20cal%20Magnum_zpswkkt02zd.jpg.html)

Here are the new lighter weight offerings in these two calibers....

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2025%20cal%20Hunter_zps4zzxpacd.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2025%20cal%20Hunter_zps4zzxpacd.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2030%20cal%20Hunter_zpscwrppghz.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2030%20cal%20Hunter_zpscwrppghz.jpg.html)

and here are the new .35 and .45 cal designs.... It is planned to offer the .45 cal in 0.452" and 0.457" head diameters....

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2035%20cal%20Magnum_zpsopkmug3g.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2035%20cal%20Magnum_zpsopkmug3g.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2045%20cal%20Magnum_zpscykndwkx.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2045%20cal%20Magnum_zpscykndwkx.jpg.html)

Finally, here is the new .22 cal line-up of NOE pellets....

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Target_zpsfvejpdht.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Target_zpsfvejpdht.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Hunter_zpse83blix7.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Hunter_zpse83blix7.jpg.html)

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Magnum_zpswxf0vlqf.jpg (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/NOE%2022%20cal%20Magnum_zpswxf0vlqf.jpg.html)

As I understand it, Al plans to produce these designs ASAP and place the moulds in the store without using Group Buys.... This will reduce the time required for the new pellets to proceed through the NOE system.... I will of course keep you informed as each new pellet mould is ready for purchase....

Bob

[rsterne]

My understanding is that the .22 Hunter and Target moulds are being manufactured, to be followed ASAP by the .30 cal Hunter and Target, and then the .35 cal Magnum Hunter, with the .45 cal Magnum Hunter being last on the list, but Al is still planning to produce it.... It's a matter of available machine time while cranking out all the new bullet designs and reruns to replenish inventory....

Bob

[HollowPoint]

I'm still waiting for word on the 20 grain hunter pellet molds. I think that will be just the ticket for my PCP.

HollowPoint

[rsterne]

I was expecting them to hit the store this week.... so any day now....

Bob

[rsterne]

The NOE .30 cal Hunter pellet moulds are now in the store.... 46-51 gr.... http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=30_585

Bob

[crankycalico]

Any chance they can be convinced to make pellet molds for .223 Remington or .308 win

[rsterne]

Interestingly, pellets of the sizes we are running seem to work fine in PB barrels when mounted on a airgun.... I know the .30 cal JSBs work amazingly well, even though the head diameter is 0.300" and the skirt 0.308".... The head is bore riding, the skirt is groove diameter, but obturates out even larger, depending on the pressure used....

I think the biggest problem using them in a PB would be blowing out the thin skirt.... Airguns max. out at about 4500 psi, and most of the ones shooting pellets are 3000 psi or less.... Additionally, we cast from pure lead or at most 40:1 alloy (2.5% tin), which is BHN 8.... Depending on the velocity, that may lead badly in a PB....

Bob

[crankycalico]

switch to 50/50 and just use large rifle primers you shouldn't have much of an issue if you use at least lla

[rsterne]

I'm not familiar with shooting pellets using a primer in a PB.... but that sounds like it might work.... You may not need to go to anything other than WW lead.... Please let us know how it works....

Bob

[nvreloader]

Bob
I have shot lots of pellets using primers in PB cases,
I made several versions, starting with just a neck sized cases,
using just the primers for that case, ie 22 Hornet case = small rifle or pistol primers etc,
then I tried using what ever case I was using at that time, 22 Hornet, 221 FB, 222, 22-250, 256 Win Mag, 257 Roberts cases etc,

I had the best accuracy using the above cases, filled with lead, with a 1/8" pilot hole from the primer to the case mouth,
then the cases were neck sized only, to hold the pellets securely.
I removed enough of the lead inside the neck that a pellets could be seated flush with the case/neck end.

Then I drilled the primer areas out to use large rifle/pistol primers, or .210 standard shotgun primers,
I made a simple "L" shaped tool, (mild steel nail) long enough for which ever case being used,
this "L" tool was 1/8" dia, which was used to push out the fired primer, then a live primer could be hand seated and a pellet loaded etc.

I also made some cases that were drilled with a taper pin reamer to the primer pocket, using the #1, #2 taper pin reamers etc.
I did not have a chrono at that time, but would estimate the fps was around 650+ fps,
which corresponded to the rifle (PB) POA at 25 yds, and I could use the standard HP rifle loads, when needed,
and switch back and forth for what ever game being found etc.

The accuracy of these cases/primers was good enough, that inside 25 yds, lots of small game, rabbits/squirrels etc were added to the game bag,
without the noise of a PB etc.
Before I found out about air rifles now, which were not available in the early 70's etc.

Do not use any powder, as the accuracy results are sadly lacking, ie TOO much psi for the pellets skirts etc.

HTH,

Tia,
Don

[rsterne]

Thanks for the education, Don.... I have heard of the practice, but never any concrete results from it.... I can see the advantage to filling the case with lead to reduce the volume inside.... Great information for those interested....

Bob