Closed:502-440-KT A keith for the 500 S&W [Archive]

happy7

09-23-2008, 06:12 PM

This boolit was originally the idea of 475/480 who decided not to run it himself and is very happy for me to take it over. This is a group buy for a 437 Grain Keith type bullet for the 500 S&W. The objective for me was to make a keith as true to the original Keith principles as possible. However there was no original in a 500 caliber, as far as I know, and due to the high velocity potential, I have opted to include a gas check. Heresy; I know Keith designs did not have gas checks. Those not wanting a gas check can always have it removed. From the feeler thread it seemed that about 440 Grains was a desired weight. Hopefully that will work for those interested.

It will be a Lee six cavity with a target diameter of 0.502". Many thanks to Blammer for his drawing. He was very patient as the design has already gone through a few revisions.

I want to do this one a little different. I am confident we can get at least five participants. That works out to $80 a mold including shipping to USA and Canada. If we can get 10 then it will be 70 a mold. I will set the price at $80 a mold. If we get to eight then I will refund the the extra money, or if less than eight I will donate to the site. Payment is by personal check, money order or paypal. Add $4 for paypal fees. PM me for payment info. Shipping other than USA or Canada is an extra $5. Due to the anticipated low volume of this buy I will not use the group buy site. I will post zip codes.

I will issue a last call before I close this, but I hope to close in about six weeks, depending on response.

Lloyd Smale

09-24-2008, 04:35 AM

does anyone know if this bullet has a short enough nose to run in a 50we FA gun? I dont have one but its about at the top of my wish list and probably will in the near future.
This boolit was originally the idea of 475/480 who decided not to run it himself and is very happy for me to take it over. This is a group buy for a 437 Grain Keith type bullet for the 500 S&W. The objective for me was to make a keith as true to the original Keith principles as possible. However there was no original in a 500 caliber, as far as I know, and due to the high velocity potential, I have opted to include a gas check. Heresy; I know Keith designs did not have gas checks. Those not wanting a gas check can always have it removed. From the feeler thread it seemed that about 440 Grains was a desired weight. Hopefully that will work for those interested.

It will be a Lee six cavity with a target diameter of 0.502". Many thanks to Blammer for his drawing. He was very patient as the design has already gone through a few revisions.

I want to do this one a little different. I am confident we can get at least five participants. That works out to $80 a mold including shipping to USA and Canada. If we can get 10 then it will be 70 a mold. I will set the price at $80 a mold. If we get to eight then I will refund the the extra money, or if less than eight I will donate to the site. Payment is by personal check, money order or paypal. Add $4 for paypal fees. PM me for payment info. Shipping other than USA or Canada is an extra $5. Due to the anticipated low volume of this buy I will not use the group buy site. I will post zip codes.

I will issue a last call before I close this, but I hope to close in about six weeks, depending on response.

happy7

09-25-2008, 04:05 PM

Lloyd,

I had a look at the FA site. It looks like the allowable bullet nose is 0.400 as far as max length for the cartridge. Whether the cylinder will handle longer bullets, I kind of doubt it, but you could check. I did not realize you were interested in this for a non 500 S&W cartridge. Making the nose 0.100 shorter makes it look more like a SWC than a keith.

happy7

09-25-2008, 04:06 PM

Of course if you seated the bullet to the top edge of the front band, it would fit. Or even crimp it over.

dk17hmr

09-25-2008, 05:10 PM

When would we see this? Any target time frame?

happy7

09-25-2008, 05:14 PM

Lee is saying six to eight months currently. Of course that is after we submit it in six weeks time.

xr650

09-26-2008, 08:43 PM

Damitol Hap!
You're killin me man!
It'll be a minute, but I'm in.

DUKE NUKEM

10-05-2008, 07:35 PM

Hmmmmm

happy7

10-06-2008, 07:39 AM

Its only money Duke. Come on and join us.

Seriously, I'm hoping we can get a couple more to join in. We need five and I know we will get them, but the sooner we do, the sooner we can get the order in.

DUKE NUKEM

10-06-2008, 10:40 AM

I was just hoping I would live long enough to recieve the mould. lol
Looks like a different design than the other one you Honcho'd Hap. Looks real good though.

Johnch

10-12-2008, 01:55 PM

I will have a check in the mail in the AM

John

wilddog45

10-15-2008, 08:34 AM

PM the info and i'm in.

wilddog45

10-15-2008, 05:45 PM

Checks in the mail Mat

happy7

10-15-2008, 08:40 PM

That makes two checkes in the mail and XR650 saving up for one. That's three plus me is four so we just need one more person. This one is coming together.

wilddog45

10-15-2008, 10:10 PM

This is one hell of a design folks. A gas checked Elmer Keith with the square cut lube grooves.This one will hold a lot of bear grease or lyman orange. What more can you ask for?:Fire:

REDDUTCHMAN

10-16-2008, 05:31 PM

The sales pitch got me......put me in ..give me a shout when it's "last call" time that will give me time to put funds together.....if that will work

happy7

10-16-2008, 07:17 PM

Hey that's great Dutch. That makes five of us. As the checks come in I will post the zip code. I know these are tough times, so take the time you need to get the money together, but the sooner I get the funds, the sooner we can get this big boy ordered.

DUKE NUKEM

10-16-2008, 08:28 PM

Yea that's just like the RCBS 255 grain GC. I'm still thinkin Hap. 9 months is a long time.
Running the dimensions through my head looks like it would come out to 465 to 475 with the gas check out of WW's. Good weight.

DUKE NUKEM

10-16-2008, 08:40 PM

does anyone know if this bullet has a short enough nose to run in a 50we FA gun? I dont have one but its about at the top of my wish list and probably will in the near future.
My NEI 480 grain run .503 to the crimp grove Lloyd.

happy7

10-17-2008, 06:58 AM

The 437 weight takes the gas check and lube into consideeration. I would not expect it to run heavy.

happy7

10-17-2008, 07:01 AM

The thing about the wait, five months after we order, we could be only a month away from getting it. But if you didn't order, then you are still 6-9 months from getting one.

DUKE NUKEM

10-19-2008, 04:32 AM

Just to play the devils advocate, is the bullet weight vs. rate of twist compatible with the S&W brand revolvers?

wilddog45

10-19-2008, 05:35 AM

I think about 38 gr of H110 should solve that physics question.

DUKE NUKEM

10-19-2008, 05:59 AM

I think about 38 gr of H110 should solve that physics question.

What would be the velocity?

happy7

10-19-2008, 06:22 AM

According to Hornady, 1654 fps.

69daytona

10-19-2008, 08:28 AM

I want one but have to wait until the middle of next month to send you the funds. Love the gas check for shooting it fast will have to see about making 3 of them plain base for just slow target shooting. If you ever want to do a 600 grain WFNGC let me know, if not I will keep buying them from RR. those things shoot great out of my 4 and 10 1/2 inch 500s at over 1800fps. Send me a PM with info on where to send the money. trying to sell a few rare antique car parts to fund a new gun and this right now.

DUKE NUKEM

10-19-2008, 08:34 AM

I was told the block is not tall enough for even a 500 grainer.

69daytona

10-19-2008, 09:21 AM

I dont know how tall the Lee blocks are but the 440gr GC I have are .888 long and the 600gr WFNGC are 1.248 long it doesnt matter as I want these just for plinking and cheaper target practice, I will buy Ranger Ricks big Bullets for the serious stuff. I used 36.2 grains of lilgun behing a 440gr GC and got 1573fps average with 1740ftlbs and it was a very managable load could go up probably 2 more grains and be safe. these gins were tested to 90,000 PSI with just a split in one cylinder. this load was well under the 60,000psi these guns were designed for.

happy7

10-19-2008, 12:06 PM

The six cavity mold can accomodate bullets of one inch in length according to Lee.

DUKE NUKEM

10-19-2008, 02:57 PM

Any chance of adding a 500 grainer then?

happy7

10-19-2008, 03:19 PM

Well, this is the second buy for the 500 I have just run so I think that is enough for me for awhile. I do think that you could design a boolit of 500 grains that would fit the mold but I'm not too interested in running it right now.

happy7

10-20-2008, 09:54 AM

Checks came today from

43445
64734

So we have two confirmed orders!

happy7

10-20-2008, 10:11 AM

I know times are tough right now and all of us are feeling it and it looks like we need some extra time. I am going to set a deadline of November 15 for this mold. If you who still want one can get your money into me by then, that would be great. If you need more time than that, PM me and I will try to accomodate you. I don't want to exclude anyone. But we also need to try to get this order in so we can secure our place in line.

xr650

10-21-2008, 04:28 PM

I scratched and scrimped and saved and arrived at my intended goal.
I caught twotrees pack mule before it left town. :-D

So...........

The check is on the mule.

Thanks hap,
Larry

happy7

10-21-2008, 04:44 PM

Payment came from

95662

That makes three payments received.

wilddog45

10-21-2008, 07:14 PM

I have shot Rangerrick's 525 gr. Keith style boolits and they were my overall favorite Rangerrick boolit design and I told him so. I think I will like this weight alot better for my hunting area and needs.I have about all of the old Ideal Keith molds for my .357 and .44 in SWC & HP Cant wait to try this big boy out. And yes duke ,this WILL put a hole on both sides,LOL.:castmine:

DUKE NUKEM

10-21-2008, 09:22 PM

DUKE NUKEM

10-22-2008, 06:33 AM

Give me a holler on last call and I'll be in.

happy7

10-22-2008, 07:16 AM

Duke,

I have sort of made last call already when I said deadline is November 15. I will send the order in then so I need to have payment bofore that, if possible. Let me know if that will be a problem.

happy7

10-23-2008, 12:10 PM

Payment came from

82901

15bobcat

10-24-2008, 11:10 AM

Count me in, PM sent.
-Harold

happy7

10-24-2008, 04:24 PM

Payment received from

12586

So the current list now is

12586
82901
95662
43445
64734

Total to date: 5

wilddog45

10-29-2008, 08:07 PM

Eom Booooooooooooooooo!!

DUKE NUKEM

10-30-2008, 02:47 AM

Where do I send funds too?

happy7

10-30-2008, 09:42 AM

Duke, PM sent

happy7

11-04-2008, 11:59 AM

Only about 10 days left to get in on this one. I need to have the money by the 15th.

happy7

11-05-2008, 02:27 PM

Payment came from 63010

Calehedron

11-06-2008, 08:01 PM

Times are tight but hopefully some of my overflow bullets will sell well in the next few months. I will send via paypal if you PM your email/account info.

happy7

11-06-2008, 10:20 PM

Recieved payment today from

85243

Current list is

12586
82901
95662
43445
64734
63010
85243

REDDUTCHMAN

11-10-2008, 03:10 PM

Happy 7

pm sent

happy7

11-13-2008, 01:59 PM

This group buy order will be placed Monday. Here is the current list.

I have recieved payment from the following zip codes.
12586
82901
95662
43445
64734
63010
85243

plus
26264
is supposed to be in the mail.

Others of you have expressed interest, but if you are not on the zip code list, I did not get your payment and will not be able to order a mold for you. I will also not be ordering any extras on this one. If you wanted in and are not on the list, contact me ASAP and I will see what I can do to help you.

All the paperwork has already been submitted on this order. Monday I will give them the final number and our order will be active.

Matt

happy7

11-15-2008, 10:13 AM

Payment came today from 26264

xr650

11-15-2008, 01:29 PM

Hap,
In your first post you stated that if 8 moulds were reached you would refund money. If this is the case I would much rather you donated to the site. I DO NOT want a refund.
Thank you,
Larry

happy7

11-15-2008, 01:39 PM

Well we have reached eight molds so I will send yours into the site. Thanks.

Hap,
In your first post you stated that if 8 moulds were reached you would refund money. If this is the case I would much rather you donated to the site. I DO NOT want a refund.
Thank you,
Larry

15bobcat

11-15-2008, 03:41 PM

Well we have reached eight molds so I will send yours into the site. Thanks.
Matt,
Please send my refund to the site also.
Thanks
-Harold

69daytona

11-15-2008, 03:59 PM

Mine too.
Thanks Happy

wilddog45

11-16-2008, 09:04 AM

If you can bribe the guys at Lee to move this order to the front of the line with my refund, do that!! If not, donate mine to the site too. :bigsmyl2:

happy7

11-16-2008, 10:28 AM

Requests dully noted. I will note each of your names with the contribution. I will be sending my refund in as well.

happy7

11-16-2008, 10:29 AM

Very last call. Paypal payments will still be accepted till about 8am central tomorrow when I call in this order to Lee.

Calehedron

11-16-2008, 01:02 PM

As with the others, donate the leftovers to the site.

wilddog45

11-16-2008, 04:51 PM

Boy , I cant wait for this one.This is is a cross between Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skeltons best designs and I thank whoever had a hand in it other than Mat.:-)

happy7

11-17-2008, 07:08 AM

I placed the order this morning. Here is the final list

12586
82901
95662
43445
64734
63010
85243
26264

Lee is currently working on molds for May. A nice spring or early summer casting session is in our future is what it looks like.

happy7

05-08-2009, 01:59 PM

I called Lee today. We are now number 21 on the list. Unfortunately, I think that translates to a good long wait. My other group buy placed two months before this one is still probably a month out, but I am not going to speculate how long it will take.

wilddog45

05-10-2009, 04:48 AM

Thanks for the update. I just hope they come in before this next hunting season. Looks like MiHec will have to take some load off of Lee so they can finish their orders in a timely manner :twisted:

happy7

07-02-2009, 10:38 AM

wilddog45

07-02-2009, 03:18 PM

Damn, I was going to use this boolit on deer this year. Maybe miha will save the day!! Thanks for the heads up!!

happy7

07-16-2009, 09:37 PM

My other group buy order placed two months before this one came in today. They were supposed to be 13 orders between them, so who knows at this point, but it is progress.

Johnch

07-17-2009, 05:41 AM

Gentlemen,

Latest communcation with Lee was that this time I spoke to one of the mold guys. He said he predicts November is when we will get this mold. I know, I know, that is a full year. Aaaaand another 5 months. So I am not a happy but also can't do anything about it either.

Not a darn thing you can do

IF I was going to complain
It would be to / about LEE
As you have done a great job IMO

John

happy7

08-04-2009, 09:05 PM

I happened to be on the phone to Lee today and spoke to Pat. He says we are about two weeks from delivery. So great news, and I am pretty sure that this is reliable as well. I will post again as soon as they arrive.

happy7

08-04-2009, 09:22 PM

BTW, I am running another 50 cal group buy on a spire point mold. Anyone interested please see this link (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=629692#post629692)to join us. This one will be run by our own NOE mold maker and will a lot faster than this one.

happy7

08-24-2009, 12:26 PM

The molds arrived today!!!!! They look real nice. I will try to cast with mine soon and get back to you with dimensions. Unfortunately I am commited this afternoon and tomorrow. Might be Thursday before I can cast. If the dimensions check out I will get these shipped out pronto.

happy7

08-24-2009, 12:29 PM

As an intersting point, I also recieved my copy of the infamous 358-75-WC group buy today. Now that is about as far divergent as you can go in a lee six cavity. Tiny little 75 grainers in one mold that hardly intrude into the block of aluminum and huge 440 grainers in the other that almost go through to the other end.

wilddog45

08-24-2009, 04:43 PM

I had some of Ranger Rick 535gr boolits in this same similar design and really liked them.I also thought I would like them better in a lower grain weight so I am real anxious to get this one and get a load worked up.

happy7

08-26-2009, 12:35 PM

So i cast some today. Bottom band was around .500. Top bands .5005-.5015 or so. Anyway, they are undersize. I am going to send them back and see if we can get some on spec this time. Sorry guys. I kept casting and measuring, hoping they would grow as I sure wanted them to be right, but there is nothing for it. They just aren't big enough.

However, they make a really handsome bullet!

wilddog45

08-26-2009, 02:41 PM

Lee guarantee's these to be within -0.00 to +0.003. Hope they can fix them fast.

happy7

08-26-2009, 03:41 PM

Here is something to whet the appetite! I melted most of these down already, but put a gas check on this one to look at till the fixed ones come in.

I did get them in the mail today, so the wait is on again.

Blammer

08-26-2009, 04:20 PM

I like the "halo" around the base.. :)

wilddog45

08-26-2009, 04:42 PM

If only ol' Elmer were alive to see this.

wilddog45

08-26-2009, 04:46 PM

I got a feeling that this one is going to be my "go to" boolit!!

xr650

08-26-2009, 08:17 PM

Hap,
Again, Thanks for your efforts.
Lee did right by the last one. High hopes for this one also.
Sure is a pretty rascal.

wilddog45

10-05-2009, 08:30 AM

Mat,
Have you heard anything from Lee yet? I hope they didn't put it on a back shelf and forgot about it.

happy7

10-05-2009, 09:19 AM

Well, they called end of last week. They are not keen to remake the molds. This is the third mold in a row that I have returned to them for being undersize and they feel I am contributing the the backlog they have on custom molds. My feeling is they could just make them right the first time. I am not very fond of having to return them every time. This mold was the least undersize of the three. Lee cast with them and claim that they are .501 or .502 but with Linotype. Unfortunately none of us can afford linotype which casts larger. So they are sending me a mold back to look at again complete with bullets cast in the mold. They want me to reevaluate it, which I will do, but I don't expect to get different results as before. I am pretty sure from what I can find out that the difference in linotype and WW will put us back at .500 on the bottom band.

Anyway, I am prepared to stick to my guns, but let me know. If you want, I can acccept these as they are. What we have is a bullet that casts the top band at .501 or so and the bottom band at about .500. See, the bottom bands cast smaller. However, a gas check is the actual bottom band and it will be normal size of course. So we have a slightly undersize middle band in effect, since the gas check is really the bottom band. I will post again after I get the mold and cast with it. Let me know what you think.

wilddog45

10-08-2009, 08:32 PM

I really got to thinking about this and my opinion is to stick to your guns as their website guarantees a tolerance of .000 to +.003. Linotype, in my opinion, is not used in large boolits as it is to brittle and most or all of us in this buy are probably casting with WW or alloys of. We have waited this long and if they think that you have contributed to a backlog then others have been sending them back as well.I really want this one to work out for me as I do think it will be a usefull boolit for me and I want it to be able to size round. If they send you examples cast with lino, I say send it back as we have a better selection of mold makers now..

happy7

10-14-2009, 08:36 AM

I recieved the mold back from Lee last week. The bullets they sent cast with Linotype were indeed of correct size, but I was unable to duplicate those results with wheel weights. So I returned the mold to Lee and asked them again to remake them. We will see what happens.

xr650

10-18-2009, 06:30 PM

Thanks for the update.

wilddog45

11-09-2009, 05:11 PM

We are on the back shelf now!!! BUMP!! LOL!!

happy7

11-09-2009, 05:55 PM

Yes, dissapointing. I guess maybe they figure if we are going to make them remake it, they will make us wait. I hope they get around to it soon.

happy7

11-26-2009, 09:37 AM

Happy Thanksgiving!

Well, good things come to those that wait. The molds arrived yesterday, and I managed to get some time this morning to cast a few up. Good news. They are the right size. Again, the top band is at least a thousandth bigger than the bottom band, but the bottom band is mostly .502, and never smaller than .501 and the top band running about .503. Bullets with gas check but unlubed weighed just over 450 grains.

This is a real handsome bullet and now it is very close to perfectly on spec. As I said, good things come to those that wait. The wait was exceedingly long, but now that it is over, I am pleased with what we have. I hope you all will be too.

I will get these out to everyone as soon as I can, but am overrun with family and special times together, so please have a little more patience. I will do the best I can, but cannot also sacrifice special time with family.

wilddog45

11-26-2009, 10:32 AM

Boy, this IS a HAPPY Thansksgiving. I was getting to wonder if Lee was going to make us wait 2yrs as punishment for not accepting their product. Sounds like you did well my friend. I can't wait to try this one.

happy7

11-27-2009, 06:20 PM

I got some time this morning and mailed all molds out.

Calehedron

11-27-2009, 07:59 PM

Thank you very much, Happy. Been just over a year and I am itching to add this bullet to my arsenal. I appreciate your perseverance and commitment to getting a quality product. I tip my hat to you.

wilddog45

11-28-2009, 06:09 AM

You da man, Mat. Looks like it will be an early Christmas. High Fives!!!

xr650

11-29-2009, 03:49 PM

Well this sounds good. :smile:

wilddog45

12-04-2009, 11:21 AM

Got my mold today. Can't wait to clean it up and try it out.

wilddog45

12-04-2009, 01:45 PM

Mine came out spot on .502 on all three bands as cast with water dropped ww's. This will work. I think ole Elmer might have even approved of the gas check,maybe not, but I like it. And a handsome boolit it is!!

Johnch

12-05-2009, 08:31 PM

Mine arrived today ( 43445)

Now all I need is to cast a few

John

xr650

12-06-2009, 06:04 PM

82901 arrived 12/05/09.
Looks good. Should be able to cast some this eve or on the morrow.

THanks for your efforts Hap.
Looks like a winner.

Calehedron

12-07-2009, 06:19 PM

85243 arrived today. Looks nice but I have never owned a Lee and I didnt realize how small the moulds are for being a 6 cavity.

Thanks for your dedication.

happy7

12-07-2009, 06:39 PM

For those who weren't in on the PB .502 group buy I ran before this one, here are some tips I posted on that thread for casting these big pills in these molds. If you guys come up with any tips please post them!

These bullets are bigger than ideal for this size mold blocks. I ran my temps between 650-700 on the melt. I cannot go any lower on my pot or the spout will freeze. I still needed to use up to a count of five on a wet washcloth to keep from frosting too bad.

Turn the mold upside down to dump the bullets. If you don't, the bullet from the cavity nearest the handle hinge bolt can fall against the opposite mold half due to the length of the bullet and jam there. Upside down works very well and I had no problems dumping this way. The bullets drop very well from the mold due to the weight. A light tap was all that was needed.

You are going to need a lot of lead heated. This mold empties my 22 pound pot in no time flat. I have a piggyback setup I will use if I want to really go for quantity.