Veggie wad??

[Knarley]

I shoot BP and APP. Does one need to use a veggie wad over APP like one does with BP?

[Dave T]

I've had a lot of years of BP cartridge loading and shooting and never used a veggie wad in anything. Sure you can use them, and I guess lots of people do, but you sure don't have to. As for APP (which I'm told is the same as the newer Black M-Z) they claim you don't even need lubricant on the bullets. The Black M-Z rounds I've shot didn't seem to foul all that much and I was shooting cast bullets lubed for smokeless. No wads, veggie or cardboard, were involved.

Dave

[2ndAmendmentNut]

We talking about shotshells, muzzleloaders, cartridges or cap guns here?

I shoot SASS with several guys that use APP. They swear the stuff is "self-lubing" and they shoot cartridges loaded with either no lube or commercial lube still on the bullets. They also use APP in shotshells with regular plastic wads. It works for them and they claim it is very convenient to simply be able to use commercially cast bullets and plastic wads. Personally, I did not much care for any substitute when compared to real BP. Without lube or with commercial lube accuracy was terrible, maybe fine for SASS, but I went back to real BP, soft lead, and natural lubes. I also use a vegetable fiber wad in my shotshells because I did not like the bad residue the plastic ones left behind.

[Knarley]

I was thinking more in the lines of cartridges, 56-50.
I don't use them for Cowboy loads. We use fiber wads in the shotguns, I don't like those plastic shotcups for cowboy shooting. 1 for the plastic residue, 2.Pattern opens up quicker with out. 3 I don't like raking them up every spring.

[indian joe]

I was thinking more in the lines of cartridges, 56-50.
I don't use them for Cowboy loads. We use fiber wads in the shotguns, I don't like those plastic shotcups for cowboy shooting. 1 for the plastic residue, 2.Pattern opens up quicker with out. 3 I don't like raking them up every spring.

Knarley
I dont know about wads with this powder and I guess it depends what you want from that rifle - I have been shooting a 1876 Uberti of late trying for accuracy and my groups at 100 yards with that rifle have shrunk from 3" -4" down to under 2" if I can do my bit (doing my bit at that level is a way lot harder than it used to be) the major difference has been working on wads - I have gone from no wad, to 30 thou juice box, to 60thou HDPE plus one newsprint, I would much rather just fill with powder and jam a boolit in on top however I just now shot a couple of three shot clusters that would make most blokes happy if they did it with a scope sighted bolt gun - maybe I lucked it and pulled a couple shots into the group instead of out - dont usually do that though - can I do it again ?? dont know but am starting to think yes.
All that said I dont use wads in my 44/40 - fifty yards offhand - somethin to lean on would be more help than a complicated load :-D
I reckon try some juice box wads in that spencer with a single newsprint wad over it - see if it likes em.

I have previously been resistant to the idea of wads - reckon it takes up good powder space - takes extra time in loading .......but .....half size group? thats a useful payoff.

[rfd]

for black powder loads their will be no air space 'tween the powder column and the bullet base and a wad card (or wads) is need to protect the bullet base.

for smokeless loads there is no need for a wad card and it serves no purpose.

[indian joe]

for black powder loads their will be no air space 'tween the powder column and the bullet base and a wad card (or wads) is need to protect the bullet base.

for smokeless loads there is no need for a wad card and it serves no purpose.

I was assuming APP being a BP sub was a full case load ? not so ? dont gain anything from a wad ? great ! one less thing for him to do.
Ifn I had a Spencer I would run it on black powder - just what I would do - have had plenty of time with smokeyless gunz - they are / were always tools to get a job done, BP is fun.
Joe

[rfd]

IF the case is full up with a sub, i'd prolly use a wad. depends on the sub and it's requirements.

[Knarley]

APP is a BP sub. I am going to work up some Black loads, but was wondering if it
would be a good idea to use a wad with the APP. It heats the barrel as would BP. APP states that the bullet should be touching the powder, but very little compression, if any. So that is how I have been loading. Haven't really sat down and worked with the gun, just been enjoying making it go boom. I have no idea how accurate it will be, time will tell. I plan on using a wad for black, was just curious if it would be needed for the other powder. I guess the only way to find out is to well, find out.

[rfd]

best to contact the manufacturer first.

[Knarley]

Yup, the 56-50 with APP powder shoots noticeably better with a veggie wad. Just got back from the range, and the target says so....