Slugged my 1894 Marlin 45 Colt...Seemed wrong

[Stopsign32v]

Well here is a pick of the ball. All I can say is I think it was WAY too easy to get this .457 ball into the bore and I could basically push it down the barrel with arm strength. So what is to learn from this? Looking to find out what type mold to buy for it.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1849/43530300184_04872db1ef_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/29jCaEY)

[Outpost75]

What does it measure now?

[Stopsign32v]

Looks like .4525

Measured it again and now it's .4515

Measured it a 3rd time and it's .449

I swear I'm not an idiot and know how to use a mic... But what the ****

Just to make sure I'm not a complete fool I measured my commercial .452 bullets and sure enough they measure .452

Should I maybe melt some round balls in a .45 Colt case and try that?

[DocSavage]

Do you have a mold for 45/70 maybe a bullet at .460 will give you a better result or maybe a.490 dia round ball that would be even better.

[Stopsign32v]

This is all I have as I'm just starting out. I can buy another batch of round balls at Cabelas, they had .490s.

[RPRNY]

The grooves in my Marlin Cowboy LTd 45LC are .453

Round ball would not be my choice for slugging the bore. Too narrow a surface band. If you don't want to buy a kit, a Hornady swaged "cowboy" boolit would be best.

[Outpost75]

Would be worthwhile to take another much larger ball, like a .490 suggested above, and force it ahead of the case and measure that. Get the diameter for the unrifled portion ahead of the case mouth before the rifling starts and size to that!

Probably .456-.457...

[Catshooter]

And there's no real need for a round ball or the proper caliber. I've used a .452 boolit in a 40 caliber bore when I had no .40 boolit. I just hammered it in to get it started and then drove it down the bore. Of course I was careful with the hammer/muzzle no-touching-rule. It left a ring of lead around the rod. Worked fine.


Cat

[am44mag]

If I ever need to slug a barrel and the only bullets/mold I have are a bit too small, I just smack the bullet on the nose a few times with a hammer (on a hard, flat surface) until it's oversized for the caliber I'm slugging. As Catshooter said, if the bullets are a bit too big, they'll just shave off a ring of lead when you hammer it down the bore.

You need an actual bullet though, not a round ball.

[CastingFool]

I made my own slugs for .30 cal rifles, by drilling a 5/16" diameter hole in a piece of oak. Then, I melted some pure lead, and poured it into the cavity. To remove the resulting slug, I split the "mold" I did use a rough file on one end of the slug, to taper the end slightly. Make sure you oil both the bore and slug.

[dondiego]

Take you mic to the bait store and by a fishing weight of the right diameter with the hole in the middle...............

[Stopsign32v]

Take you mic to the bait store and by a fishing weight of the right diameter with the hole in the middle...............

I almost bought a sinker just like this in Cabelas instead of the balls but after searching there are a lot of concern over if the sinkers are pure lead or not. No way of knowing

[Stopsign32v]

Well I melted 3 lead balls in a 45 Colt case. Worked great to slug the bore! To my surprise the bore is dead on at .450

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1853/43355926555_9d573ded75_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/294dst6)

[Dan Cash]

How are you getting the micrometer to measure bore diameter on your slug? The high ribs on the slug represent the groove diameter and .450 seems very small for a .45 rifle.

[odette]

can you take a fired brass case and fill with lead, file the lead so it is flush with the brass and use that to force the .490 rd ball into the chamber using the rifles lever? Or would that damage the rifles action?
As far as slugging the barrel, I prefer the softest lead and just over sized enough where I have resistance but can still use arm strength to push down the barrel. This way I can feel for rough spots in the barrel and determine if or how much to lap a barrel. There is a kit you can get that has either 8 or 12 slugs for slugging a barrel before and after lapping.
I have a Marlin 1895LTD that I intend to slug and lap as soon as I get a chance. I hope to get it from a 3.5" group to at least a 1.5" group at 100 yds

[Stopsign32v]

How are you getting the micrometer to measure bore diameter on your slug? The high ribs on the slug represent the groove diameter and .450 seems very small for a .45 rifle.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1878/44262889321_9f4f5bc331_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2armSUa)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1841/30396365558_17c06f70f9_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Nj2juf)

[Harry O]

I have never had much luck trying to get a measurement like you are doing. You took a soft ball very little oversized and just pushed it through. That gives me undersized measurements.

Nowadays, I put a wooden dowel in the barrel, then hammer the oversized ball in, then put another dowel on top of the ball and hammer the last dowel. This forces the lead between the dowels outward, to the full size of the barrel. Then remove the ball and measure it. The two ends of the slug will be pretty much flat, not rounded like shown in your photograph. If it has an odd number of grooves, you cannot get a true measurement without a lot of math.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Looks like .4525

Measured it again and now it's .4515

Measured it a 3rd time and it's .449

I swear I'm not an idiot and know how to use a mic... But what the ****

Just to make sure I'm not a complete fool I measured my commercial .452 bullets and sure enough they measure .452

Should I maybe melt some round balls in a .45 Colt case and try that?



https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1841/30396365558_17c06f70f9_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Nj2juf)

A digital caliper isn't a Mic.

A Micrometer (0-1") is the correct tool for the job, because to get a repeatable measurement of a soft lead slug, you need to be able to apply a repeatable amount of pressure on the Lead slug. A Mic has a clutch to do that. A digital caliper doesn't, unless you have a calibrated thumb, LOL.

[Stopsign32v]

Would this be a good tool to use? https://usa.palmettostatearmory.com/rcbs-mechanical-digital-micrometer-0-87322.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-sbJ8uqK3QIVENbACh3EngmaEAQYASABEgKla_D_BwE

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

It should be.
When I started casting, I bought a Chinese Mic just like that, it worked fine for cast boolit purposes. I have since upgraded to a used Mitutoyo which has a much better feel, but in all honesty, for boolit purposes, the Chinese Mic gives the same results. I've seen the Chinese Mics as cheap as $15.

[mdi]

I have used the "fill a case with lead" slug method several times. Soft alloy is nice, but not entirely necessary as I've used my WW alloy and range lead. I've also used oversize bullets (I have some 435" bullets I used for my 44 revolvers.). I like to have a slug .005"-.010" larger than groove diameter and a brass rod and standard 1" mics., and once is not enough, do at least three, and more is better...

[Cherokee]

I use .452 sized bullets I my JM 1894 45 Colt. Never measured because my first try with the bullet worked so great, accurate and no leading.

[cwlongshot]

I have not seen the need to do this. I simply load some at a given dia and shoot them, up the size repeat when It shoots good I stop. I don't mean to be a smart ****, but bigger is almost always better with lead bullets. I have five 45 Colt marlins, twice that in handguns and all shoot .454 sized bullets best.

I know a revolver is a very different animal as it comes to proper bullet sizing. Cyl dims are a more critical measurement. But we are speaking about a rifle here correct?

There is zero danger or harm shooting a .454 lead bullet thru a .451 bore.

CW

[mdi]

I like to know as much about my guns as I can. So, I slug the barrels, slug/measure the cylinder throats and occasionally do chamber casts. I don't have to guess at anything or go through a trial and error test. I could size all my bullets as large as I can fit them in a chamber, but for my revolvers sizing via the cylinder throat makes my guns a bit more difficult to clean and "throat sizing" is not necessary. When I fire lead bullets much over throat diameter(.002"+) I get lead spray on the cylinder face and frame/top strap and forcing cone.


For my rifles shooting cast I like to keep the bullets close or just a bit larger (.001"-.002") than throat diameter. Also when slugging rifle barrels and measuring, I've found many guns to be different than what they are "supposed to be"...

If you don't care and just want your bullets to come out the end of the barrel intact leaving little lead behind, then just go with the biggest bullet you can find and hope for the best...

[cwlongshot]

I like to know as much about my guns as I can. So, I slug the barrels, slug/measure the cylinder throats and occasionally do chamber casts. I don't have to guess at anything or go through a trial and error test. I could size all my bullets as large as I can fit them in a chamber, but for my revolvers sizing via the cylinder throat makes my guns a bit more difficult to clean and "throat sizing" is not necessary. When I fire lead bullets much over throat diameter(.002"+) I get lead spray on the cylinder face and frame/top strap and forcing cone.


For my rifles shooting cast I like to keep the bullets close or just a bit larger (.001"-.002") than throat diameter. Also when slugging rifle barrels and measuring, I've found many guns to be different than what they are "supposed to be"...

If you don't care and just want your bullets to come out the end of the barrel intact leaving little lead behind, then just go with the biggest bullet you can find and hope for the best...

Knowledge is power. NO DOUBTS and I do not mean to suggest its wrong in any way. Knowing these things can be beneficial! Its just many times its more superfluous. While at the same time being NO LESS TRUE.

IE, I know cheap gas makes my GMC motor ping. But when high test is in it, it doesn't ping. SO, if I don't like the ping I spend more ka-ching. [smilie=1:
I don't really need to know the ins and outs of the internal combustion engine. Follow me?

Also I did specify speaking to rifles not hand guns esp revolvers as this is entirely a different scenario.

CW

[Stopsign32v]

Knowledge is power. NO DOUBTS and I do not mean to suggest its wrong in any way. Knowing these things can be beneficial! Its just many times its more superfluous. While at the same time being NO LESS TRUE.

IE, I know cheap gas makes my GMC motor ping. But when high test is in it, it doesn't ping. SO, if I don't like the ping I spend more ka-ching. [smilie=1:
I don't really need to know the ins and outs of the internal combustion engine. Follow me?

Also I did specify speaking to rifles not hand guns esp revolvers as this is entirely a different scenario.

CW

I’d probably just save money and fix the GMC. Unlikely GM made any production GMC vehicle that requires high test.

[cwlongshot]

This particular GMC hasn't been close to "production" in over 30 years. :roll::mrgreen: Runs just fine on proper fuel... Much like a 45 Colt with a properly sized bullet. :drinks:

CW

[Stopsign32v]

This particular GMC hasn't been close to "production" in over 30 years. :roll::mrgreen: Runs just fine on proper fuel... Much like a 45 Colt with a properly sized bullet. :drinks:

CW

A 1988 anything GMC was not rated for 93 octane. So either you changed something making it require a slower burning fuel or something is wrong creating pinging with lower octane. Either way your theory is wrong.

[cwlongshot]

Its OK we don't agree here ya know.

Cheers brother.

CW

[Wayne Smith]

I have used the "fill a case with lead" slug method several times. Soft alloy is nice, but not entirely necessary as I've used my WW alloy and range lead. I've also used oversize bullets (I have some 435" bullets I used for my 44 revolvers.). I like to have a slug .005"-.010" larger than groove diameter and a brass rod and standard 1" mics., and once is not enough, do at least three, and more is better...
If you are knowingly using a mike soft (pure) alloy is necessary. Bi- and Tri- alloys all have spring back, and you don't know how much.

[bedbugbilly]

+1 - JonB in Glencoe

Use a micrometer to measure, not digital or dial calipers

The mic is going to give you consistent pressure on your slug due to the way it works - you can;t give consistent pressure on an object with a set of calipers.

Don't get frustrated with it, you'll get it and you have already worked hard at it.

You said you measured some commercial boolits that you have and they measured .452. My first question would be, "so how do they shoot out of the rifle?". If they feed and shoot well, then I'd be looking at a mold to duplicate them.

Example: I have a 45 Colt SSA (revolver and not a rifle but still applies). It has generous chambers and throats and the bore measures at .452. I like to use the traditional 255 grain round nose flat point. I have shot commercial of the 452/454-190 Lyman/Ideal RNFP style out of it that were sized .452 and I have shot my own cast out of my 454-190 Ideal mold as dropped at .454. Both seem to shoot equally well out of the SAA. If you have the style and grain weight figured out that you want to shoot, a mold in .454 allows you to use an oversize boolit (if your rifle ends up slugging at .452 or .452) if your rifle chamber will allow it to. If not, then you can size it down to what you need - .452 if that is it or if your bore is .453, you can open up a Lee .452 push through sizer die by polishing it out to the dimension you need.

Just random thoughts . . . .

[mdi]

Knowledge is power. NO DOUBTS and I do not mean to suggest its wrong in any way. Knowing these things can be beneficial! Its just many times its more superfluous. While at the same time being NO LESS TRUE.

IE, I know cheap gas makes my GMC motor ping. But when high test is in it, it doesn't ping. SO, if I don't like the ping I spend more ka-ching. [smilie=1:
I don't really need to know the ins and outs of the internal combustion engine. Follow me?

Also I did specify speaking to rifles not hand guns esp revolvers as this is entirely a different scenario.

CW

I understand. It's like when I asked my wife where the starter was in her car, "It's right here" as she pointed to the ignition lock on the side of the steering column. And some even say ignorance is bliss...:mrgreen:

[1bluehorse]

Take you mic to the bait store and by a fishing weight of the right diameter with the hole in the middle...............



dondiego has the answer..........easy to use. Big enough surface area for a good measurement. Size 6 or 8, can't remember for sure. Have slugged many barrels using them.

[ironhead7544]

Get the slugs from Lead Bullet Technologies. Well worth the money.

[OldBearHair]

"Mdi.... at least three, and more is better..." How do you decide on which one? Or do you hope for all three to match? I will use your advice and not stop at one slug. I need to know more about the outcome actions. Is it a common thing for all the slugs to be the same? Good for the mention of spring-back of alloys.

[mdi]

Normally, when I slug a barrel with 3 or more slugs (and not necessarily all at the same time) the slugs will be very close, within .001" of each other. If I find one that looks like it got started crooked or felt a different "pressure" to force the slug through, I might discard that one. If I measured three slugs and two measured .431" and one measured .433" I'd figger something was off/askew for that slug and try another (.431" is 44 Magnum rifle groove diameter. I only have one 45 Colt revolver and the bbl slugs at .451" for two tries and may do more at anther time. I ave slugged many barres and have a "feeling" for a good slug and I use micrometers). If you run one slug through you'll have a good idea, but I prefer to get a better result with more slugs (lifelong machinist/mechanic with a light touch of OCD [smilie=1:).