.38 leading in first 2 inches of barrel

[Mauser48]

Finally shot my first bullets I cast myself and experienced some leading. I know, shocking right? Load was a .38 case, a lee 158 swc tumble lube, and 3.4 grains of 700x. They were tumble lubed with straight liquid alox. I experienced fairly light leading mostly in only the first couple inches of barrel. The bullets were .358-.359. By taking the back end of my calipers to the cylinder throats I was getting .3565-.357. I believe this is my problem. That was in my gp100. There was also a little bit of leading throughout the rest of the barrel (very minor) so I think next time I will try using more lube. My question is, should I plan on reaming the cylinder throats? If I do ream the cylinder throats, will my performance with jacketed go down? Thoughts?

[Hannibal]

Dial calipers are not accurate enough for measuring cylinder throats. You need pin gauges to do it correctly.

Having said that, I personally don't have good luck with liquid aalox. I know others use it without trouble, but it doesn't work well for me. If I were you, I would try a different lube before I did anything else. If you are still having problems, checking the diameter of your cylinder throats with pin gauges and slugging your barrel would be the next things to do.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[John McCorkle]

I don't know I would consider tooling your pistol till many many other options are exhausted. Leading is a very common thing to do not get discouraged.

More lube may or may not be the thing to try. How much was on them? Do you have a pic? Unless it was very very light the lube amount is likely just fine with lla. It does not take much at all.

What is your alloy and how hard are they? (Generally...you may not have specific data but it's a more likely culprit than not enough lla)

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[Mauser48]

http://i.imgur.com/DKjjxCv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lgqsQto.jpg

Here's the bullet and the barrel after the range session. I think you guys might be right about the lube because I also shot them through my blackhawk and they leaded that in the first couple inches of barrel and also a little towards the muzzle end. The blackhawk has looser cylinder throats too, I can push the bullet through the cylinder without too much force. In the gp100 they are pretty darn tight getting through and leave a lot of lead in the front cylinder face. No lead deposits on the blackhawk cylinder face whatsoever. Is there another lube alternative besides liquid alox that doesn't require me to buy a lubersizer?

[John McCorkle]

http://i.imgur.com/DKjjxCv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lgqsQto.jpg

Here's the bullet and the barrel after the range session. I think you guys might be right about the lube because I also shot them through my blackhawk and they leaded that in the first couple inches of barrel and also a little towards the muzzle end. The blackhawk has looser cylinder throats too, I can push the bullet through the cylinder without too much force. In the gp100 they are pretty darn tight getting through and leave a lot of lead in the front cylinder face. No lead deposits on the blackhawk cylinder face whatsoever. Is there another lube alternative besides liquid alox that doesn't require me to buy a lubersizer?I'm sold on shake and bake powder coat. Been a boon to my castings, absolutely great experience with it so far

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[Hannibal]

I've always used a lubesizer, so I don't know exactly how the technique works, but pan lubing and the 'cookie cutter' method is about the only other option I'm aware of. Essentially, you place your cast bullets base down in a metal pan and pour in melted stick lube until it's over the lube grooves. Then use a fired .38 case that will fit over the bullet to cut it free from the lube once it's cooled and hardened.

Apart from powder coating, that's about the only other method I'm aware of. Perhaps someone else will offer another option. (?)

[GhostHawk]

Well I like Alox but I thin mine "BLL" style. (Ben's Liquid Lube, alox thinned with floor wax)

If it was me I would try easing load up a bit, make sure you are going nothing to cause the brass to swage those bullets down. Maybe try going up a thousandth or 2 on bullets.

Reaming throats would probably be my option of last resort.

It has been my experience that Fit is king, everything else after that, but get that right first.
That includes anything that is shrinking your cast in the loading process.

Best of luck to you. I would say do LOTS of reading and start playing with one variable at a time. Take notes!

[MT Gianni]

As a broad generalization, leading in the front of the bbl is fit or hardness problems, in the rear it is lube.

[Mauser48]

Alloy is air cooled wheel weights. I really dknt think this would be a hardness issue for this light of a load. I've also shot this same exact load but with a commercial 158 swc moly coated bullet and experienced no leading.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

a light load like that should have a softer alloy, so the boolit has a better chance to Obturate.

[Mauser48]

Think I'll try pan lubing next and see where that gets me. If it works better I'll consider a lubersizer. Where can I get some beeswax for a decent price. Is 50/50 beeswax and vaseline a good lube for what I want to do?

[Silverboolit]

Are you running your loaded rounds through a LEE factory crimp die? If you are, pull a loaded round and see if the case has swaged it down. I have a GP100 and it helped a lot to have the cylinders measured with a pin guage. You cannot manage what you cannot measure.

[Mauser48]

Are you running your loaded rounds through a LEE factory crimp die? If you are, pull a loaded round and see if the case has swaged it down. I have a GP100 and it helped a lot to have the cylinders measured with a pin guage. You cannot manage what you cannot measure.

Nope, just roll crimping in the rcbs seating die. I'll measure the throats with gauge pins this week.

[RedHawk357Mag]

I ran into a problem with some dies swagging my bullets down during the crimping operation. But sometimes the brass can swag it down if alloy isn't hard enough as well. Mixing headstamps might have some cases with different thickness of case walls doing odd stuff to your bullets. Good luck in finding a solution.

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[Bookworm]

I have a GP 100 that leads the same way; the first inch or so of the barrel. I shoot a very similar boolit, the Lee TL RN for 38/357. I played with lead hardness, seating, load, etc.

I've pinned the chamber throats, and determined that the throats are too tight. As soon as I save a few shekels, I'll purchase a reamer set to relieve the throats. Until then, the GP100 is on the shelf. I have several other 357 revolvers from which to choose, so I won't suffer withdrawal symptoms.

[gwpercle]

Alloy is air cooled wheel weights. I really dknt think this would be a hardness issue for this light of a load. I've also shot this same exact load but with a commercial 158 swc moly coated bullet and experienced no leading.

Sounds like an upgrade in lubricant just might be the easy answer.

The best money I ever spent was on a Lyman 450 lube/sizer.

[Hannibal]

Think I'll try pan lubing next and see where that gets me. If it works better I'll consider a lubersizer. Where can I get some beeswax for a decent price. Is 50/50 beeswax and vaseline a good lube for what I want to do?

I have had excellent results from BAC from White Label Lube Co. It is not expensive and as I'm guessing you'll be like most of us and move on to casting for rifles, the same lube has given me excellent results with rifle cartridges as well. White Label makes several different formulas should you decide to try something different. I just like having one 'do-all' lube myself.

[tranders]

If you decide to have the cylinder reamed, contact DougGuy on the forum. He has done two revolvers for me and does an excellent job. His prices are very reasonable and quick turn around time.

[mdi]

As noted above, leading at the cylinder end of the barrel is "normally" from small/hard bullets and leading at the muzzle end is from too little or poor lube. Also, calipers aren't good for measuring small IDs and you can try slugging the cylinder to get a more accurate measurement. While the cylinder throats could be that small, calipers by their jaw design will "normally" give smaller than true measurements (or you could try the "drop through", "push through" checks).

If it were my gun, I would slug the throats, slug the barrel (to make sure the groove diameter is smaller than the throats) and measure with micrometers. Many shoot the tumble lube bullet design as cast, but make sure they are at least the same size as the throat diameter. Alox tumble lubing works for many (me too. I dip lube with alox and 45-45-10) and there are other tumble lubes available, check the Lube sub forum...

[Char-Gar]

I used a 60/40 mix of beeswax to Vaseline and it should work find for you.

[Echo]

I use the Recluse formula of 45/45/10 - carnauba wax, Alox, mineral spirits. See the sticky. and there is a forum member who sells beeswax, but the handle eludes me at the time...

[fredj338]

ID micrometer or pin gage the cyl throats. It will only take one or two small throats to cause that early leading IMO. I doubt any lube tinkering is going to fix it. If the bullet is small going into the bore, it's gonna lead some.

[Mauser48]

I have had excellent results from BAC from White Label Lube Co. It is not expensive and as I'm guessing you'll be like most of us and move on to casting for rifles, the same lube has given me excellent results with rifle cartridges as well. White Label makes several different formulas should you decide to try something different. I just like having one 'do-all' lube myself.

Yeah I was looking at white label, would BAC be a better choice than their 50/50 for what I'm doing? Will a pound be enough to do 100 bullets at a time in say a pie plate?

[Hannibal]

I have not tried 50/50 personally, but for .38, I think it would work just fine. As I stated earlier,
I prefer BAC because it works well for my rifle bullets as well, where as 50/50 may not if I choose to push them a bit faster. Saves me from cleaning out my lube sizer. I'm lazy. 8-) And yes, a pound is many times more than enough to do 100 bullets at a time, especially if you use a smaller pan so you won't have unnecessary volume to fill.

[gnostic]

Alloy is air cooled wheel weights. I really dknt think this would be a hardness issue for this light of a load. I've also shot this same exact load but with a commercial 158 swc moly coated bullet and experienced no leading.

I've had leading with LLA and BLL as well. When I size and Lube with Super Moly the leading goes away real quick. My S&W .357's don't seem to lead with tumble lube.

[Mauser48]

I picked up a pound of bac lube and a lee 358-158 rnfp mold so now I will have a bullet with a traditional lube groove. I look forward to trying this out, thanks for the suggestions everyone!

[Hannibal]

Sounds like a good plan! Let us know how it goes.

[rintinglen]

http://i.imgur.com/DKjjxCv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lgqsQto.jpg

Here's the bullet and the barrel after the range session. I think you guys might be right about the lube because I also shot them through my blackhawk and they leaded that in the first couple inches of barrel and also a little towards the muzzle end. The blackhawk has looser cylinder throats too, I can push the bullet through the cylinder without too much force. In the gp100 they are pretty darn tight getting through and leave a lot of lead in the front cylinder face. No lead deposits on the blackhawk cylinder face whatsoever. Is there another lube alternative besides liquid alox that doesn't require me to buy a lubersizer?

I suspect you have a 6 chambered sizing die that is making your bullets too small for your barrel. When your chamber throats are too small, they squeeze your carefully crafted boolits down. Undersized lead boolits almost always will lead the bore.

I had a similar problem with my S&W M-69 44 and Doug Guy came to the rescue. For $65.00 He opened my cylinder throats from .4285 to .432, which worked better with my .429 Barrel.

[Dieselhorses]

I'll second what mdi said. I did the exact same with my 500 Smith and I can either use lubed OR powder coat = NO leading! Also no issues for my 686-6 shooting either 38's or 357mag. Also make sure crimp is not too heavy. 700x is a pretty fast burning powder. I use the same hardness (15-18BHN), with the exception of using a gas check under the 500's 440 GR SWC's. (I tend to fancy powder coating over anything else though!) Remember the "Choir Boy" to get the lead out.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Meanwhile, there's a little kit called the Lewis Lead Remover that could help you get it clean again.

[Hannibal]

I'll second what mdi said. I did the exact same with my 500 Smith and I can either use lubed OR powder coat = NO leading! Also no issues for my 686-6 shooting either 38's or 357mag. Also make sure crimp is not too heavy. 700x is a pretty fast burning powder. I use the same hardness (15-18BHN), with the exception of using a gas check under the 500's 440 GR SWC's. (I tend to fancy powder coating over anything else though!) Remember the "Choir Boy" to get the lead out.

I believe you meant 'Chore Boy'. (?)

Getting difficult to find the copper stuff as opposed to the steel, so be cautious of what you're buying.

Too many unscrupulous characters using copper wool for nefarious purposes, so I hear.

[Dieselhorses]

Duuh yea, Chore Boy. "Choir Boy" is the singing version LOL

[mdi]

Duuh yea, Chore Boy. "Choir Boy" is the singing version LOL

I think I got a CD of theirs somewhere...

[Mauser48]

I'm happy to report that both my bores look like mirrors after the range day! This load was 3.4 grains of 700x with the lee 158 rnfp and the white label lube. This load felt a little warmer than my 158 grain swc loads with the same powder charge. I think it's because I had to seat the rnfp a little deeper than the SWC so it built up more pressure. I'll probably back off to 3 grains. Thank you to the experts for the suggestion that worked like a charm! I have an rcbs lube-a-matic 2 on the way! Pan lubing was a pita but it was a cheap way for me to try out the lube.

[Hannibal]

Excellent! Always nice to hear about a happy ending and glad your problem has been solved.

[sutherpride59]

If you aren’t going to buybablube sizer I wouldn’t bother with pan lining. Just do the shake and bake with powder coat and you will get more bullets faster than with pan lubing. Pan lube is a PITA. I bought a star sized and I couldn’t be happier.