Cast accuracy possible at 500 yds from 30-06?

[arlon]

I'm curious if anyone has gotten any sort of reasonable accuracy at that range with a cast bullet in a 30-06 (1-12 twist)? I have a number of 30 caliber moulds and a decent rifle to try it with. I just don't see how you could keep a cast bullet stable at that range. Thoughts, specific loads appreciated.

Also have a decent .243 and .270, not much else that would even be worth an attempt.

[Outpost75]

NOE version of #311299 cast 15-16 BHN, 92-6-2 "hardball" alloy is fine. Lubricated 50-50 Alox-beeswax, sized .311" with Hornady GC and 40 grains IMR4064, RL15 or Varget, GI match cases, WLR primer, 1.0 grain weighed of Dacron loose fill tucked into case neck. Cycles M1 Garand reliably. More accurate than HXP 75 Ball ammo back to 600 yards. A 12" twist will give better accuracy with this load than common 1:10", in a Model 70 boltgun with 10x Unertl should be about as good as M72 match with well cast and weight sorted bullets.

[waco]

I have had some success out to 500 with a .308 using the NOE 30CXB with IMR4831
RL15 and 4064 are my next tests as Outpost75 suggested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-rsMrbxQb0&t=1s
My RL15 loads are going 200fps faster than the ones in the video. I think these will be more consistent at those distances.
2475fps in a 10 twist barrel.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Go for it. On a calm day, I was able to easily hit a 6 inch plate at 300 yards with 13 grains of Red Dot and a tumble lubed Lee 170. I'd try for farther, but that's all I have for range. You could also consider paper patching.

[centershot]

Larry Gibson posted his success story with his 30 XCB at 500 or 600 yards, can't remember for sure. Seems like he was right around 1 MOA and he was pushing those boolits at full speed. I'll see if I can find the link and post it.

The problem you'll have with an "outta' the box"" '06 is the 10" twist. That's almost surely going to limit you to 2000 fps, maybe less. Buy a new barrel with a 14" twist and get it mounted and now you got something!

Waco - I'd love to know how you got to 2475 fps with that boolit - inquiring minds want to know!


OK, found that link to Larry's post, it's a good read!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356607-NOE-30-XCB-30x60-XCB-600-yards

[waco]

Centershot. Here is how I loaded that ammo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV3iaBvgomE

[waco]

The only thing I did different to get 2475fps was to use 40gr of RL15

[waco]

225749
I guess it was 2489fps not 2475.
This load shows a lot of promise with a 1:10 twist factory Rem. 700 barrel.

[arlon]

Larry Gibson posted his success story with his 30 XCB at 500 or 600 yards, can't remember for sure. Seems like he was right around 1 MOA and he was pushing those boolits at full speed. I'll see if I can find the link and post it.

The problem you'll have with an "outta' the box"" '06 is the 10" twist. That's almost surely going to limit you to 2000 fps, maybe less. Buy a new barrel with a 14" twist and get it mounted and now you got something!

Waco - I'd love to know how you got to 2475 fps with that boolit - inquiring minds want to know!


OK, found that link to Larry's post, it's a good read!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356607-NOE-30-XCB-30x60-XCB-600-yards



As posted, I have a 1:12 twist 30-06. Not so spinney as the 1:10 but not 1:14 either.

[arlon]

NOE version of #311299 cast 15-16 BHN, 92-6-2 "hardball" alloy is fine. Lubricated 50-50 Alox-beeswax, sized .311" with Hornady GC and 40 grains IMR4064, RL15 or Varget, GI match cases, WLR primer, 1.0 grain weighed of Dacron loose fill tucked into case neck. Cycles M1 Garand reliably. More accurate than HXP 75 Ball ammo back to 600 yards. A 12" twist will give better accuracy with this load than common 1:10", in a Model 70 boltgun with 10x Unertl should be about as good as M72 match with well cast and weight sorted bullets.

Great info thanks. Sound like there is hope.

[waco]

.30-06
12 twist
5-600 yards
simple......

[waco]

Any number of bullets, any number of powders

[Larry Gibson]

I do suggest the NOE 30 XCB (310-165-FN) for use in your 12" twist 30-06. You should be able to get excellent accuracy at 2300 - 2400 fps. For best results care must be taken in casting using a correct alloy (I recommend #2 alloy) and selection of bullets. Slower powders in the RL17, 4350, H4831SC, RL19 and RL22 range will be best. I shoot long range to 600 yards with my 12" twist M70 Match rifle in 308W with the 30 XCB over AA4350. No reason you can't do the same with your '06.

[arlon]

I do have a Lyman's 311467 mould that has been pretty accurate in most of my 06 rifles. I'd sort of forgotten it and buried it in the back of the pile. I'd read somewhere that bullet had been used for 1000 yd shooting successfully. Wish I could find that article again. I think I might try casting a few and see how they run with some slower powders. I have never loaded cast with anything slower than 2400.. Always used Blue Dot with 311467 in the past but that was never more than 100yds. New range I joined just has some nice long range ranges set up with metal plates. Nothing serious but seems like it would be fun to try.

[Larry Gibson]

The 311467 design should do well at 500 yards from your 12" twist '06.

A few tips to get the best possible accuracy;
Cast them of #2 alloy, visually sort for no defects (no matter how small) and then weight sort correctly.
Size the bullets to fit the throat (probably .311 or .310) and lube with 2500+ or 2700+.
Seat the GCs firmly in a separate step after trimming of any excessive sprue.
Use well fire formed cases that are "match prepped" and neck sized giving .002 - .003 neck tension.
Start at 43 gr of any of the powders previously posted (RL17, 4350, H4831SC, RL19 and RL22) and use a 1/2 to 3/4 gr Dacron filler.

A 2300 fps load will need 13 - 15 moa +/- elevation to go from a 100 yard zero to a 500 yard zero. The BC will not be all that great so a 5 mph wind out of 3 or 9 o'clock can deflect the bullet 25" +/-. Thus you must watch the wind conditions carefully. Still some very good shooting can be done at 500 yards.

[arlon]

Larry, thanks for that. Saving that bit of info!

[gunarea]

Hey arlon

My unrepeatable success was done using a Remington Kodiak in 30-06, fitted with a Shilen replacement polygonal barrel. Specified twist rate was 1 in 15". The projectile was a Lyman 311291 sized @ .310, copper checked and lubed with "Best Lube", 100% filled grooves. Alloy composition was my standard Lyman #2 with 20% lino enriched. All done and ready to be put into a carefully prepared match REM brass casing, the projectile weighed 169gr. no plus, no minus. My best 500m accuracy came using 52.5gr. of IMR 4350 with a chrono speed 2550fps avg.. Using only the very best hand picked slugs I could produce from a single cavity mould. Our range could accommodate 800m and had 12"X12" gongs. On a calm morning it was easy to ring them over and over, although there is a noticeable delay in the sound of the hit. This particular worked up load, won me a Florida state title that year. While I am no longer capable of even firing a load like this, I am quite sure competent shooters can do 500yd 30-06 very accurately with cast projectiles.

Roy

[sharps4590]

What waco said. It's been close to 30 years ago but I had a Remington 03-A3, (it and a Winchester Garand are the only two -06's I ever owned, both long since gone), and with not much work hits on a 5 gal bucket at 500 yards were boring. I never did group the rifle at that range....probably wouldn't remember if I did as neither military arms nor the -06 are very high on my list of interest. I have no idea what I loaded back then but it wasn't hot, probably around 1700-1800 fps. I do remember it being either a 190 or 200 gr., cast, gas checked bullet. It doesn't take 3000+ fps to be accurate at distance.

[rintinglen]

Back when I was very young lad, there were a great many shooters who used cast for 600 yard matches. There were many articles back in the 50's in The Rifleman describing steps to take to produce better scores. Jacketed Bullets in those days were not as precise as they are now, and competitors desiring top accuracy and minimal recoil worked up loads that would allow them to shoot competitively out to 600 yards with common 30-06 Military rifles like the M-1 and 1903. Lyman's 311-299 had a following as did several other 200-220 grain boolits, especially the 311-284. Judging wind becomes more important, and your dope had better be correct, but guys shot great scores on that 12" ten ring using cast.

[evoevil]

lots of playing with that. I'm good to 300 ............ so far

[Larry Gibson]

Back in the '70s there was quite a supply of the old 5V high powder targets at a range we shot at. The 5Vs (A & B targets, 200 - 600 yard) had been replaced in '67 by the SR Decimal targets so they were just gathering dust. The 1000 yard C 5V target was replaced in '75. Back then (mid '70s) there were a few of us who liked to shoot cast bullets out of M1903s, M1903A3s and M1917 milsurps so we decided to make use of the 5V targets. Sometimes there was a mix of Mausers and SMLE milsurps used also. The most popular .30 cal bullets used in the '06 were the 311284 and the 311299. Most were loaded at 1850 - 1950 fps (yes I had an Oehler chronograph back then).

Mostly we just shot prone position and started at 600 yards. The bull on the 600 yard 5V target was 20" in diameter. At 600 yards we quickly found accuracy using NRA HP prone unsupported position wasn't that good, at least not good enough to hold the bull. Many shots just weren't going to "call" either. Some loaded to 2000 to 2100 fps but results did not prove any better at 600 yards. Moving to the 500 yard line we quickly found the cast bullets would "hold the black" with much improved accuracy. Shots were also "going to call" with shots called good. Thus we continued to just shoot at 500 yards with our cast bullet milsurp "matches". Holding the black is 4 moa which, again, was from the prone unsupported position. A sling was used as per NRA Service Rifle rules. A few times when the wind wasn't blowing too much the winner was determined by "V" count. The "V" was 10" in diameter. A few times we shot a string with cast then with M2 Ball. Most often scores were better with the cast bullets until the wind came up.

As good as the cast bullets were shooting they were not anywhere near as accurate as match M72 bullet let alone Sierra 168 or 180 gr MKs. If the Decimal target (600 yard B target) was used the cast bullets could not compete with jacketed bullets. Even most lots of M2 ball proved to give higher scores on the Decimal target.

[arlon]

Might have to mess with some of the milsurps. I have a Garand, several 03A3s, 1917s and an old Ideal 308284 mould. As long as it has an aperture sight I can still do ok with them. Krag is fun to shoot but I just can't see the sights like I used to. Wish the Krag had an aperture sight on it.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Bump. Our range is adding a 500 yard berm. I think I might try it with cast. I'm getting 2 moa or better accuracy out of my 30-06 using the Lee 170 RNFP and 21 grains of 2400. I'm out of scope adjustment at 300 yards and I'm thinking a 20 or 30 MOA base might be enough to get me on at 500. If I decide to give it a go with the 03A3, I'm already at 700 yards of elevation at 100 yards with cast to shoot POA. What do people do, file the front sight?

[Larry Gibson]

"What do people do, file the front sight? "

With a M1903A3 shooting cast bullets that's what you do. Most get a replacement front blade though, file it, and keep the original intact. That's what I did anyway. As mentioned in a previous post I did a lot of 500 yard shooting with the 311299 at 1900 - 1925 fps using 4895 and a dacron filler out of my M1903A1 in years past. I used a spare front blade which was filed to give a center POI on the 200 yard V-Bull target with 6 o'clock hold using the aperture sight on the sight leaf set at 100 yards. I preferred the M1903A1 as the stock was better and the rear sight offered much finer adjustment than that on the M1903A3.