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.45Cole
09-22-2008, 12:51 PM
first off, lets redesignate unique as semi-smokeless. Use it in .45colts and it's a little smoky. Tried it for 230gr .45autos and it was bad smoking (dusted it off our shirts). Anybody have a good replacement (looking at AA 5 but not good for 1000fps 200gr loads in colt or 230gr in auto). I saw thatunique's rate is around 231/hp-38, but i think that the density of 231 is greater (need low density for colt) Also, herco and power pistol are listed as close burn rate, but no data. Used for 230gr, 200gr, and 255gr colts at about 1000fps and 230gr autos at about mild recoil. Any input helpful, loads better, total solution praised

spurrit
09-22-2008, 03:16 PM
I really like Trail boss. A double charge will overflow, so it's got the safety factor built in.

With my .45 Colt, I can load it to where it's uncomfortable to shoot, if I want, but it's just not necessary, even for service loads. If you go above the recommended loads, you get diminishing returns. (More recoil for not much gain)

It's NOT a magnum powder, but will get you up into The 900+ FPS range. If you want to break 1,000 FPS, you're gonna have to go with little bitty bullets.

jimkim
09-22-2008, 03:27 PM
Have you thought about Universal Clays? Check out the Hodgdon websight.

spurrit
09-22-2008, 04:00 PM
Also, forgot to mention; Trail Boss isn't as filthy as Unique, and doesn't stink.

Treeman
09-22-2008, 05:23 PM
Unique is unique. No powder has a wider breadth of tested and proven applications. .....However, there are a number of powders of similar burning rate that will function over a wide spectrum as well. ADI's comparitive burning rate chart shows SR7625 is within 5% of Unique's burning rate as well as Universal and Vihtavouri N330. Others have mentioned that AA 5 is close also....but it is rated as fasterand 231 is faster still. Herco is slower but lots of people report using virtually the same loads as Unique in many cartridgesand getting the same velocities. Just goes to show that burning rate is somewaht relevant but things change from cartridge to cartridge and component combo to component combo. For what ever it may be worth I have come to really like PB for general handgun target work. It is much cleaner than the Alliant powders and meters very very well. Old but never enormously popular... Who knows why? I think Hercules not only got into the biz early but they captured a big distribution early enough that lots of stores never sought to stock much else and people kept on learning on Bullseye and Unique. BTW, PB is faster than Unique, similar to Red Dot and 231

felix
09-22-2008, 05:35 PM
PB is a single base version of GD (GreenDot). ... felix

Potsy
09-22-2008, 05:51 PM
Universal Clays Rocks!!
Low extreme spreads, tight groups, and clean burning is the name of the game!!!

.45 Colt-Lyman 454424-Starline Brass-CCI 300 Primer-9.0 Grn. Universal Clays.
This load give 1000 fps out of my 5-1/2" Bisley. The cylinderfull I chronied gave a 13fps extreme spread!! With a wheelweight bullet, I don't have much trouble keeping them all in
3" at 25 yards, and I'm no great pistolero. Off a rest, I can usually keep 4 or 5 out of 6 in one ragged hole. As far as mid-range loads that I would point at about anything within reason, this load is tough to beat!!! Bear in mind, this load is fine out of a Ruger Bisley, but I might back off to 8 grains in an old colt or imported model. It does not take up so much room that it cannot be double-loaded!

.45 ACP-Lee 200 grn SWC-Anybody's brass-CCI 300 Primer-6.5 Grn. Universal Clays
This load runs 880-950 out of mixed brass, I've never chronied a magfull of loads with the same headstamp. Mixed brass not withstanding, 3" @ 25 yards offhand is the norm. If your brass is all one headstamp, you might fine tune for about 900 fps.

.45 ACP-Lee 230 TC-Anybody's brass-CCI 300 Primer-6.0 Grn. Universal Clays
I only ran a few of these before I discovered a 200 grn mould, but the few I chronied ran around 850 fps (my notes on this load aren't real great). Groups were in the 3" range (offhand), which, again, is about the best I can do.

Take care not to confuse Universal Clays with the faster Clays and International Clays. The burn rate is extremely close to Unique, which is handy. For lighter loads, clays is good stuff, but I've not used near as much as the slower Universal Clays. I don't think Universal makes a great light load powder, nor do I use it when revving up a .45 colt, but for mid range loads, I've quit experimenting with anything else.

missionary5155
09-22-2008, 06:21 PM
The first cartridge I loaded was with Unique and I still think it is Fantastic. Works well in everything I have ever tried 32 Colt through 12 Bore Round ball. The lower the chamber pressure the sootier it is. I shoot it in 38 special, +P , 357 mag , 41 Long Colt ; and 44-40 down south here. Up the pressure and it burns better. Magnum 357 loads (8-9 grains) with 158 + grain projectiles and I do not see any offensive ugly smelly results. Unique is like most powders... they all have there Quirks...

Maven
09-22-2008, 07:06 PM
missionary...., I was going to suggest Hodgdon CLAYS (not Universal Clays), but having just read an article on Alliant Red Dot in the Nov. 2008 "Handloader" magazine, I'd recommend taking a good look at it and Alliant's loading data for it.

35remington
09-22-2008, 09:25 PM
Not to be a wet blanket on the Universal Clays love in, but those who use it should try the following test in .45 ACP:

With 200 or 230, position powder near bullet, level gun slowly and fire.

Powder near primer, level gun slowly and fire.

I find up to 100 fps extreme spreads in so doing. Unique will be half that at equivalent velocities. Which is why I don't consider Universal Clays to be an improvement over Unique in .45 ACP.

As loads approach ACP operating levels, Unique is quite sufficiently clean. Considering the "cleanliness" of many cast bullet loads using low pressure charges of rifle powders, any pistol powder, Unique included, is quite sufficiently clean burning when run in its operating range.

Those that think Unique is smoky and dirty in .45 ACP in standard velocity equivalent loads ain't seen dirty, really. I can shoot my 1911 all day using Unique and it cleans up easily. Smoke is primarily from the lubricant on cast bullets, and is almost nil with jacketed.

Maximilian225
09-22-2008, 10:12 PM
I'm planning on testing some titegroup soon the reloading data looks good for it, especially for 45 colt and 45 Auto. Best part is I can get it locally for 16.89 a lb.

Treeman
09-22-2008, 11:58 PM
PB is a single base version of GD (GreenDot). ... felix

Felix that pegs PB fairly closely...though technically I think GD is a tad slower. Red Dot is about 2 tads faster than PB. May I presume that you were trying to give a relative speed/application reference rather than a reference to the powders actual manufacture?

felix
09-23-2008, 01:14 AM
True with what you said. No two lots of powder are the same, even with the same number. V_V powders are the most consistent from lot to lot of any that I have used to date, starting in 1955. Some of these lots with the same number have shown to be within one tenth grain of difference in performance, and even that is by speculation because of other variables. So, let's say with 100 percent confidence every powder lot, and every can for that matter when bought in different locations and time, are different. ... felix

missionary5155
09-23-2008, 08:06 AM
[QUOTE=Maven;400144]missionary...., I was going to suggest Hodgdon CLAYS (not Universal Clays), but having just read an article on Alliant Red Dot in the Nov. 2008 "Handloader" magazine, I'd recommend taking a good look at it and Alliant's loading data for it.[/QUOTE

Howdy Maven I would be thrilled to have any other powder available here.. Pickens are real slim... Thatīs why I use Unique for near everything. Next year we return to the world of "Organised Traffic... and Supplies"... What a joy it is to "Have to decide" which powder.... But I am happy to have my meager supply of Unique.

.45Cole
09-23-2008, 01:08 PM
I guess I'm asking too much of a powder to do 45 autos and light and heavy colts. Unique is great for the loads, but is dirty (everything costs something). I DID read that the Ultramax(or something like it ) I bought at Sportman's were"loaded with accurate powder" 230gr RN. Does anybody know if it's #2 or #3. Box is usa, red whit blue colored.

spurrit
09-23-2008, 01:13 PM
Not to be a wet blanket on the Universal Clays love in, but those who use it should try the following test in .45 ACP:

With 200 or 230, position powder near bullet, level gun slowly and fire.

Powder near primer, level gun slowly and fire.

I find up to 100 fps extreme spreads in so doing. Unique will be half that at equivalent velocities. Which is why I don't consider Universal Clays to be an improvement over Unique in .45 ACP.

As loads approach ACP operating levels, Unique is quite sufficiently clean. Considering the "cleanliness" of many cast bullet loads using low pressure charges of rifle powders, any pistol powder, Unique included, is quite sufficiently clean burning when run in its operating range.

Those that think Unique is smoky and dirty in .45 ACP in standard velocity equivalent loads ain't seen dirty, really. I can shoot my 1911 all day using Unique and it cleans up easily. Smoke is primarily from the lubricant on cast bullets, and is almost nil with jacketed.


When I switched from usig unique, I was using the same components as before, just a different powder. Most of the smoke and nastiness disappeared.

kir_kenix
09-23-2008, 02:29 PM
I really like unique, and have used it in just about everything I've ever reloaded. I've found that it sometimes takes some tweaking to find a load that burns cleanly, but it is usually achiavable. I don't think there is any other powder that can be used satisfactorily over such a wide range of cartridges and applications.

I will always keep a few lbs of unique around, it's always such a handy powder. You might just have to play around with your loads a bit to get it burn cleaner.

Potsy
09-24-2008, 11:00 AM
I still having my Universal Clays "Love In" (that was pretty good). But I went over my notes and I'll throw in a few "qualifiers".

First, my experience with Unique is limited to a couple of pounds worth in a .45 Colt only, several years ago. Since then it is my understanding that they have cleaned the powder up somewhat and lowered extreme spreads. Futher, I wasn't casting back then, I was using commercial cast bullets, that and practice and experience would probably have more to do with tighter groups than the difference between Universal & Unique.

Also, thus far I've had little luck with Universal in the .38 Special.

Further, my cast loads with Universal & Unique "smoke". They do smoke less with Universal, but most of any smoke is because of the lube, as .35 Remington pointed out, jacketed loads smoke hardly at all with either powder. And even as clean as Universal is, because of the lube, my .45 Auto is pretty nasty after a few hundred rounds.

Also, even though burn rates are similar, I don't know that Universal shares any rifle applications with Unique. But I don't have any rifle loads that would call for either powder.

As much as I love Universal, I realize that it would be silly to knock Unique considering that there only been several hundred tons of it burned in .45 Colts and .45 ACP's with excellent results.

spurrit
09-24-2008, 01:03 PM
The same could be said for black powder, but there are better choices than either.

35remington
09-24-2008, 09:47 PM
In fairness, I'm not down on Universal, really, as it has applications such as in light charges (3.0 grain range) where Unique cannot meter adequately - or any flake powder for that matter that has relatively large flakes. What happens in the flakes bridge in the small cavity (Lee Auto Disk, etc.) and light charges get thrown - read squibs. Also applies to 700X, Red Dot, etc.

I am finding it odd that Universal shows such large velocity variations in some instances, and would appreciate it if those using it in various calibers would report their results from powder position variances.

In .45 ACP, it was repeatable with bullet weights from light to heavy in two different lots of powder. Same in a few other cartridges, but of course I haven't tried them all.

As far as ability to detect "smokiness" I'm certainly not insensate, but I wonder if some shooters are either hypersensitive or shoot in rather stagnant, windless indoor ranges? I've done such with Unique indoors and really can't say I was bothered by it in loads producing pressures in the standard range. Hell, it was designed to work in shotshells at low pressures - handgun pressures of even mild cartridges like .380 and .45 ACP are much higher. Clean burning in .45 ACP is not an inaccurate term to describe it in standard velocity loads. My experience.

It seems to be plenty clean enough. At least for me.

runfiverun
09-24-2008, 10:06 PM
i like titegroup for a lot of reasons and w-231 for the same ones.
it goes a long way, it burns clean, meters nicely, isn't really position sensitive.nor temp sensitive, works with jacketed or cast boolits.
they also cover a large range of calibers from 9mm to 44 mag.
if i need more in the revolvers i change to 2400, still more 296 or 110.
if i need more in the auto's i get a bigger caliber out.
plus the price is pretty good and at from 3gr for 38 special to 8 for the big ones.
to4 or so in the 44special and 5 in the 41mag/special load.to 6 in the colt c-boy load.
they are pretty darn flexible.

GMW
09-26-2008, 07:58 PM
Hi, I am a Newbie here, but have been having fun loading up my own bullits for about 35 years. My latest project is for a G20 with 155gr SWC's and 175gr SWC. They are made by Trueflight and I got them cheap. The powders I have on hand is Bluedot, Reddot, 2400, 231, HP38 and some Unique. I also have a new " lead friendly" barrel on order. Could someone get me staterd with some loads that will cycle the stock Glock and not deposit too much lead in the bore. I have no idea how hard these bullits are. Thankyou for your time.
Gerry


opps.......how did this happen? I meant to start a new post!

Potsy
09-26-2008, 10:54 PM
.35Remington,
In the next couple of weeks I'm going to get to make some trips to the range (finally!!!work has been wide open for about 2 months now and I've not pulled the trigger on anything, and its really starting to bore me).

I don't enjoy running long strings over the chrony, but would be happy run a few for our own amusement and education.

I'm assuming you would want extreme spreads with the powder at the rear of the case, the front of the case, and shooting "normally". I'm figuring 6 rounds, per string, 1 string per powder position. That may not be a big statistical cross section, but we'll have an idea.
I will be running this test in a Kimber Eclipse target .45 ACP and a Ruger Bisley .45 Colt for those interested. Loads will be those mentioned above, I'll be using Winchester instead of mixed brass in the ACP.

Give me a few details on what you want to know and hopefully I'll have some results in a week or two.

missionary5155
09-27-2008, 10:32 AM
Would everyone who is "Fed up " with dirty ,nasty smelling, smokey Unique bring it down to me here in Peru.... I will safely and humanely dispose of it for you. :)

35remington
09-27-2008, 06:55 PM
"I'm assuming you would want extreme spreads with the powder at the rear of the case, the front of the case, and shooting "normally"."

(In reference to powder position testing with Universal).

Exactly.

Hopefully with mid range to standard velocity loads with 185-230 grain bullets in .45 ACP, and 200 to 255 in .45 Colt.

Just to see if my information is duplicated by others.

Thanks for the effort. We'll see.

Lloyd Smale
09-28-2008, 07:57 AM
I love unique and herco. they both shoot so well that i can live with a little smoke and mess. Two powders that will burn at the same rate are power pistol a powder i use alot too and have had great luck with and universal clays, a powder i use sometimes but have never had the luck with working up accuate loads with that i have the other 3. I could care less if a powder is a little dirty as long as it shoots well.

James C. Snodgrass
09-28-2008, 08:20 AM
HS-6 is what I started using instead of Unique there isn't as much data but it is available . As far as clean goes it ain't that . But it is a good alliterative. James

RNyogi
04-15-2009, 10:33 PM
would everyone who is "fed up " with dirty ,nasty smelling, smokey unique bring it down to me here in peru.... I will safely and humanely dispose of it for you. :)
amen!

spurrit
04-15-2009, 11:19 PM
I'm just happy to not buy any of it.

Rocky Raab
04-16-2009, 10:31 AM
Not creating an argument in any way, but who the heck actually shoots by carefully positioning the powder? In real life, the normal cycling of the gun (ANY gun), recoil and holding the gun nearly horizontal for almost all shots will pretty much result in the powder laying evenly level in the case. When I shoot it normally (cycling the gun without any odd positioning gymnastics) Universal gives me very low variation in velocity or group, in handgun or rifle.

Universal (they changed the name due to confusion with the other two "Clays") is as near to Unique as one can find - deliberately so by Hodgdon. I use it in handgun as well as rifle loads at the same charge levels and get almost identical results. I would not blithely substitute one for the other at absolute maximum load levels, but up to mid-range, it is perfectly safe to do so.

All powders have a preferred pressure range at which they burn best. Very light loads of any powder are liable to burn poorly, resulting in unburnt kernels, smoke and dirty cases. All that goes away when charges reach that powder's "happy place" of pressure.

spurrit
04-16-2009, 03:09 PM
There are THREE Clay's powders? I thought there was just universal and regular! They really oughta use better naming/labeling practices. When I first got into reloading, I went through several pounds before I realised I was using the wrong Clay's data!

oldhickory
04-16-2009, 04:07 PM
All I will say is, if I had only one pistol powder to load with...It would be Unique.

Rocky Raab
04-17-2009, 10:19 AM
Hodgdon originally introduced three powders using new Australian manufacturing technology: Clays, Universal Clays and International Clays. They were all designed primarily for shotgun target sports, hence the "Clays" part of the name.

They soon also listed handgun load data for Clays and Universal Clays, but still do not list handgun applications for International Clays.

Almost immediately, however, near-accidents started being reported due to name confusion - as one might well realize after the fact! So within a year or so, they changed the names to Clays, Universal and International, but elsewhere on the label also included "Using Clays technology."

Application-wise, Clays can be used wherever RedDot works, and Universal where Unique does, although not always with the exact same charge weights.

35remington
04-17-2009, 07:12 PM
Rocky, IPSC shooters will shoot from the "surrender" position with a holstered gun. And may chronograph the gun from the muzzle down position or muzzle up position to "make major" for the shoot - and the unknowing may run too close to the "edge" and find the chronoed average lower than they desire (disqualified), or conversely, higher than they desire (more recoil than necessary when a more consistent powder could run closer to the major cutoff) .

I find no downside to a powder that produces lowest possible velocity variation if accuracy is a wash, as it often is. Deliberately testing for it is something I regularly do, and I find it covers all possible situations. Choosing between a powder that produces variations of 50 fps rather than 100 fps with positioning extremes is often a tiebreaker. If two powders produce similar accuracy, similar velocities with the same charge, and one is half as position sensitive, guess which one I pick?

It's a personal choice, but for myself a very relevant one as it's a clearly distinguishing, repeatably different characteristic. And I look for it.

With pistols, "odd positioning gymnastics" is the name of the game, more often than not. As are tip barrelled single shots and loads run smartly into a bolt action chamber rather than gently. We often don't run the gun exactly the same way each time, (for example, hunting versus a bluebird day at the range) and I like a powder that is less sensitive to variation due to conscious or unconscious decisions on the part of the shooter.

Rocky Raab
04-17-2009, 09:04 PM
I also find no downside to a powder that doesn't exhibit variation with positioning.

That said, except for unusual circumstances or forced situations like IPSC, I'd contend that normal cycling results in pretty much level distribution of powder in most firearms and in most circumstances.

Recoil of a revolver shoves powder forward, but the rising muzzle brings it back. Cycling the cylinder levels it again.

There isn't enough room in most semi-auto rounds to make powder position pertinent, but the violent slamming about likely levels it nonetheless.

Recoil in a rifle slams the powder forward, but then shoving the cartridge forward shoves it back again. The gun is fired horizontally most of the time, and so the powder is usually level.

Tip-ups are loaded with the cartridge down, but are snapped closed, forcing the powder back again. Again. most are fired horizontally.

The only time I can envision that a gun would be fired straight down would be at a snake between your feet, and in that event, slight loss of velocity is the least of your worries - and the range makes it meaningless.

If you fire straight up, the added velocity is a bonus!

35remington
04-17-2009, 09:42 PM
Except that it does vary, and it isn't always level. As the saying goes, stuff happens. Normal cycling doesn't always account for it, and to me it is a very valid criteria to use to evaluate a powder.

Tip a single shot down. Insert cartridge. Snap it closed gently, as I usually do, or point it muzzle down, when hunting, then raise to level for the shot. Powder near bullet. I don't snap a single shot closed with anywhere near enough force to fling the powder backward, as I'm not closing a bear trap. Velocity testing of typical closing effort reveals (with position sensitive powders) that the powder does not move markedly away from the bullet after tip down and closing, as the velocity is notably different than when the powder is level or positioned near the primer in many cartridges. I'm a very avid Contender carbine shooter and small game hunter.

Or, hold it at port arms when seeking game and level for the shot. Powder near primer. Or when shooting at an up angle, as squirrel hunting. I do a lot of that, too.

Cycle the boltgun slow, on a rest. Powder distributed through case.

Now, cycle it fast, as when hunting, and close the bolt abruptly. Powder near bullet, well away from primer.

I know there "theoretically" isn't enough room for the powder to move in the automatic pistol case, but do me a favor, as I was asking for others to try this. Try a 200 LSWC of the HG 68 pattern in the 45 ACP, using standard charges of 6 to 6.5 grains of Universal. Try it with the 230 lead roundnose of 2 ogive radius, if you prefer, with the 6 grain charge.

Try it with powder near bullet and also near primer. I get over 100 fps variation in a ten shot string. Unique runs to half that. Which means, apparently, there's too much room for Universal. Unique does bulk better and this likely accounts for some of it.

It's a tiebreaker for me.

I find the position sensitivity of Universal in the stubby 45 ACP case to be curious, but quite repeatable, and of course as the loads are lightened things theoretically get worse. But, it is present with up to 6.8 grain charges with the 200 LSWC, producing spreads of 100 fps there also (950 to 1050 fps in a five inch 1911).

If you don't care about such things, don't. But I find them relevant, and avoid powders that are sensitive to variations with powder positioning extremes. As I said, I look for it, which is probably why I'm concerned about it.

Most don't. But I'm not most guys and look for such differences to narrow my selections.

I'm not particularly looking to convince anyone. I'm mentioning it for those who may wish to see if it happens to them with Universal.

However, you're not going to convince me that such testing is foolish. I handle guns in such a way that past and current testing reveals that velocity variations due to powder position can and do happen, if I choose the wrong one.

My powder selection lets me concentrate on the shot rather than be concerned with how the powder is oriented, no matter what.

Rocky Raab
04-17-2009, 10:08 PM
Oh, I didn't say your testing is foolish. Rigorous testing always shows something.

I actually think we cannot say just where the powder is in a cartridge 99.99% of the time. We can't see it, and even the slightest tipping or jostling will cause at least some of it to slide towards level. Fill a dipper with powder and tip it over. No matter how slowly you go, the powder doesn't stay in the dipper; some tumbles out. It is reasonable to assume that this behavior does not change within a cartridge. So powder is never uniformly against either the bullet or the primer.

As to effect in the field, it is as I said: shots downward are never at a range where it matters, and shots upward would benefit from any slight velocity boost. Net relevance? None.

I'll happily admit it might matter to IPSC shooters - but that's about as inclusive as saying it matters to left-handed orphans who drive DeLoreans.

Good discussion. I'm enjoying it, my friend.

35remington
04-17-2009, 11:32 PM
Not surprisingly, I do often fire shots upward in the field (I'm an avid squirrel hunter, and like light fast powder loads in my 25-20 as well as other calibers) and in other cases I raise the gun from a muzzle down position to fire the shot at game I kick out when traipsing about (and I'm not about to tip the barrel up to position the powder near the primer before shooting, as I don't have time to dink around).

I also carry it level or at port arms, as I mentioned. It would perhaps not surprise you that I often use dacron with powders of 2400 speed and slower in light loads for rifle cases, so I ensure this position sensitivity thing is moot for me with those powders as well despite how the gun is handled.

So, I'm consistently concerned with it, and take steps to avoid it, whatever they may be. At least you can say I'm on the same page, all of the time. My philosophy is to avoid variation if possible, and I do. Do such things matter? Certainly to me they do or I wouldn't do this.

I'm pretty well convinced that pointing the gun muzzle down or up positions the powder at the extremes of the case space, and leveling it, while possibly allowing some of the powder to move, doesn't move most of it to the other end nor is it entirely level, at least while I'm handling the gun. The chronograph says so with some powders.

I think I've spoken my piece about it.

cephas53
04-18-2009, 08:29 AM
I
" You might just have to play around with your loads a bit to get it burn cleaner."

Although I'm new to casting I've been reloading and using Unique for about 3 decades now. Wanted cleaner burning, tried other powders but had a stash of Unique to use. After some effort I found what kir_kenix says is true. This winter I've experimented trying to see if I could get a cleaner load with it. All else the same, 45apc, Lee 452-228-1R I used several lubes. Was about ready to give up. Last effort was pan lube, found the recipe in your sticky section for lubes. Was very pleased with the results.

spurrit
04-18-2009, 10:14 PM
Hodgdon originally introduced three powders using new Australian manufacturing technology: Clays, Universal Clays and International Clays. They were all designed primarily for shotgun target sports, hence the "Clays" part of the name.

They soon also listed handgun load data for Clays and Universal Clays, but still do not list handgun applications for International Clays.

Almost immediately, however, near-accidents started being reported due to name confusion - as one might well realize after the fact! So within a year or so, they changed the names to Clays, Universal and International, but elsewhere on the label also included "Using Clays technology."

Application-wise, Clays can be used wherever RedDot works, and Universal where Unique does, although not always with the exact same charge weights.

The dumb #######s should at least make the labels look noticeably different. I'd bought some of both without knowing better when I first started reloading.

Boondocker
04-18-2009, 11:51 PM
I love just plain clean Clays in my 45 acp,I am going to use my Unique in my new cast rifle loads, I have some 3030 loaded up allready.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/boondocker6/DSCF3823.jpg

spurrit
04-19-2009, 02:30 AM
Since I ended up with Large rifle magnum primers by accident, I'm using them up in cast bullet loads. They work fine.

Heavy lead
04-19-2009, 06:44 AM
IMO Clays (just plain) is the absolute best target 12 gauge powder I've ever used. Now with that said I have burned some Universal, but have since gone back to Unique, I like Unique better for three reasons. First it is bulkier, takes up more space and if there should be a double charge I can see it much easier, second IME Unique is cleaner, yes I really said it is cleaner, I don't shoot light loads, only medium power loads with Unique and my pressure is high enough to not get sooting and/or gunk, three, it shoots great, very accurate in almost everything I load in.
I have never had an issue with the labeling.

dougader
04-19-2009, 07:50 PM
Are these the old labels, or the new ones? I think these are fairly easy to distinguish.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/ClaysPowders.jpg

Rocky Raab
04-19-2009, 10:56 PM
They appear to be new - or at least they match the shots on the Alliant website, as best as I can see.

On the other hand ... I just checked my own cans/labels. I have sample bottles of Clays and Universal from their first month of introduction and they look the same to me. Hmmmmm.

(Trivia note: When they introduced Clays, they made up sample bottles with just enough Clays to load one box of 12-ga trap loads. I was at a shoot where they handed out a truckload of those little bottles. When the shoot was over they had grundles of them left, and because I was driving home and not flying, they gave me a bunch of them. I still have some - unopened.)

spurrit
04-20-2009, 04:27 PM
Are these the old labels, or the new ones? I think these are fairly easy to distinguish.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/ClaysPowders.jpg

They used to look like the one on the left. They should put a label o top of the lid, in plain text, stating which iteration it is.

joedapro
05-11-2009, 09:36 PM
There are THREE Clay's powders? I thought there was just universal and regular! They really oughta use better naming/labeling practices. When I first got into reloading, I went through several pounds before I realised I was using the wrong Clay's data!

why? do you get confused by the red ,green, blue or clay "dot" powders from aliant too.:roll::roll:

joedapro
05-11-2009, 09:47 PM
All I will say is, if I had only one pistol powder to load with...It would be Unique.

actually it is all i load with for paper punching and clays; 357, 45 colt, 223, 300 whisper, 300 wby mag, 35 remington and 12 gauge it works for all of them. i use unique in service rifle competition in the ar, bullseye competition, and in skeet. it wins, so i have no need for any other powder.:drinks:

spurrit
05-11-2009, 11:09 PM
why? do you get confused by the red ,green, blue or clay "dot" powders from aliant too.:roll::roll:

if the labels look the same, I generally don't look too close. After the incident I mentioned, I started double checking.

JustSomeGuy
06-11-2009, 04:17 AM
actually it is all i load with for paper punching and clays; 357, 45 colt, 223, 300 whisper, 300 wby mag, 35 remington and 12 gauge it works for all of them. i use unique in service rifle competition in the ar, bullseye competition, and in skeet. it wins, so i have no need for any other powder.:drinks:

Hmm... I would love to see what bullet and what amount of Unique you are using in your AR Joedapro. That would make for an interesting experiment. I havent used Unique in a rifle since I had a 243 years ago and it worked very well indeed in that 7grns of it would put a 90 grn bullet through a 1/4 steel plate at 100 yards if I remember correctly. I wonder about cycling the action of the AR with a Unique load... please elaborate!

spurrit
06-11-2009, 09:07 AM
NExt, we'll see a thread on cleaning lead and carbon out of your gas tube.

Papa smurf
06-11-2009, 02:58 PM
I'm with joedapro and oldhickory---------------maybe thats why its called UNIQUE !!!!!!!!
good shooting-------------------------Papa Smurf