The new 8.6 creed

[John McCorkle]

Well, got to visit with Kevin brittingham from "Q" today at our local gun shop. They have developed a new bolt action design that is fantastic called "the fix". Super light weight... fantastic design. Pricey but fantastic.

Also up and coming is the 8.6 creedmoor. These guys were on the design team that worked on the 300 blk. This is the same concept but in a larger platform. Shorten the case and neck up a 6.5 creedmoor to .338 caliber and you can shoot heavies for hunting ranges very well. The design goes to SAAMI in January...and once that has cleared production. I think it'll wind up being a great cast caliber for short barrels and hunting distance. 300 blk is great for casting and I expect this to do well too.

Interested to see how it develops and what the next few years turns out for this little round.

Anyone else looked into this yet?

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[jungleman9941]

Very interesting

[MT Gianni]

I am still wondering how in the world the 260 Remington failed and the 6.5 creedmore is how with lesser ballistics. Must be marketing as it is tough to beat a cartridge with a military case as a base. The 338 federal by all such math would beat the 8.6 but logic has never driven sales. Both are inferior to the 358.

[John McCorkle]

I am still wondering how in the world the 260 Remington failed and the 6.5 creedmore is how with lesser ballistics. Must be marketing as it is tough to beat a cartridge with a military case as a base. The 338 federal by all such math would beat the 8.6 but logic has never driven sales. Both are inferior to the 358.I think I agree with you, weighed yhe pros cons of a 338 vs 358 win (which I really like) and a 35 whelen....which I really really like!

I love a whelen alot...just need to get my hands on one now

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[6pt-sika]

I am still wondering how in the world the 260 Remington failed and the 6.5 creedmore is how with lesser ballistics. Must be marketing as it is tough to beat a cartridge with a military case as a base. The 338 federal by all such math would beat the 8.6 but logic has never driven sales. Both are inferior to the 358. If I were forced to only have two bolt action rifles in all likelihood one would be a 260 REM and the other a 338 Federal . I’ve been an advocate of the 260 since it’s inception and see no reason to go to the other one . Although I don’t hold your regard for the 358 WIN , had ones years ago in a Ruger 77R . Strangely I never really liked the 358 WIN but I did like the 356 WIN in a leveraction .

[6pt-sika]

I think I agree with you, weighed yhe pros cons of a 338 vs 358 win (which I really like) and a 35 whelen....which I really really like!

I love a whelen alot...just need to get my hands on one now

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Did the Whelen a number of years ago in a 700 Classic and it did very well . But it left my possession I do however have the second 6.5-06 I had built and that one will stay with me till the end , as to an over 30-06 if I ever see a reason again it’ll be a 338-06 . On the 308 or 06 cases I’ll always prefer a 338 over a 35 cal . Just my ALWAYS biased opinion !

[Tripplebeards]

I am still wondering how in the world the 260 Remington failed and the 6.5 creedmore is how with lesser ballistics. Must be marketing as it is tough to beat a cartridge with a military case as a base. The 338 federal by all such math would beat the 8.6 but logic has never driven sales. Both are inferior to the 358.

I agree...same caliber to me. I'll never buy an 8.6 I'd rather have a 338 win, 338 rum, or Lapua if I needed a 338.

[BigMagShooter]

AR platform.... that's the difference.

[Tripplebeards]

AR platform.... that's the difference.

That makes sense and the only reason I'd consider the round with any degree of usefulness.

[MT Gianni]

AR platform.... that's the difference.

Yet the Ar runs the 308 and should run the 6.5/08 aka 260 Remington and 338/08 aka 338 Federal just as easily and with better ballistics and an easier to find case.

[RU shooter]

Well, got to visit with Kevin brittingham from "Q" today at our local gun shop. They have developed a new bolt action design that is fantastic called "the fix". Super light weight... fantastic design. Pricey but fantastic.

Also up and coming is the 8.6 creedmoor. These guys were on the design team that worked on the 300 blk. This is the same concept but in a larger platform. Shorten the case and neck up a 6.5 creedmoor to .338 caliber and you can shoot heavies for hunting ranges very well. The design goes to SAAMI in January...and once that has cleared production. I think it'll wind up being a great cast caliber for short barrels and hunting distance. 300 blk is great for casting and I expect this to do well too.

Interested to see how it develops and what the next few years turns out for this little round.

Anyone else looked into this yet?

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What was old is new again , something very similar is listed in my elderly Ctgs of the world book , believe they used the 7BR brass necked up to 338 shooting a 300 gr match bullet subsonic might even been called the 338 whisper.

[dk17hmr]

Kit Badger on YouTube did a little review on the 8.6, looks interesting.

[Landy88]

It doesn't seem like that'd be enough case capacity to be terribly useful, when even the .308 based .33 and up rounds can run a bit out of it. Even my 9.3x57 is still a special purpose closer range round even with the old 57mm case's capacity. There might be a reason why the .318WR, .35Wh, and 9.3x62 are all so close in capacity and have proved so useful for more than a century.

[David2011]

I am still wondering how in the world the 260 Remington failed and the 6.5 creedmore is how with lesser ballistics. Must be marketing as it is tough to beat a cartridge with a military case as a base. The 338 federal by all such math would beat the 8.6 but logic has never driven sales. Both are inferior to the 358.

The difference between the ballistics of the 260 Rem/6.5 Creedmoor and even the 6.5x55 is really pretty small and probably insignificant for hunting. I think the big difference is that Hornady loads match grade ammunition for the Creedmoor and that has been the path to its success. That has opened up long range competition to people that don't want to reload.

[Hardcast416taylor]

As far as all the `Flash in the pan` new wildcat rounds that have come and gone the way of the Doo-Doo I still hold onto my 2 favorite `cats. The .338/06 and my .416 Taylor. If a critter walks, crawls or snarls I have the situations pretty well covered.Robert

[TXGunNut]

Not a long range shooter but having trouble imagining a .338 bullet with adequate BC and velocity from this case to live up to the Creedmoor name. If it's a hunting cartridge why call it a "Creedmoor"?

[John McCorkle]

Not a long range shooter but having trouble imagining a .338 bullet with adequate BC and velocity from this case to live up to the Creedmoor name. If it's a hunting cartridge why call it a "Creedmoor"?They were originally going to go with something different but wanted the recognition of the parent case and stayed with the metric naming instead of the "338 creedmoor"

The design is to be shot at distance under 300 yards and heavy heavy subs with the sound of a compound bow...300 blk on roids

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[TXGunNut]

They were originally going to go with something different but wanted the recognition of the parent case and stayed with the metric naming instead of the "338 creedmoor"

The design is to be shot at distance under 300 yards and heavy heavy subs with the sound of a compound bow...300 blk on roids

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Sounds like a worthwhile round, especially to someone who loves to put a smackdown on feral hogs as I do. But I'm also a casual historian and I know a little about the history behind the Creedmoor name. I understand the new round is based on the Creedmoor case and thus entitled to ride it's coattails but I think they should have worked a little harder on the name. Quite frankly I have no use for the 6.5 Creedmoor but this .338 adaptation has me thinking about one on the M4 platform with a can for my brother to use for hog population control on his deer lease. If a major ammo maker steps up after SAAMI puts their stamp on this cartridge (he doesn't reload) it would make more sense than the AR-based .308 that I've been recommending for him. I suspect some of today's powders could be useful in helping this round attain a respectable (but still subsonic) velocity.

[M-Tecs]

SoI have no use for the 6.5 Creedmoor but this .338 adaptation has me thinking about one on the M4 platform with a can for my brother to use for hog population control on his deer lease. If a major ammo maker steps up after SAAMI puts their stamp on this cartridge (he doesn't reload) it would make more sense than the AR-based .308 that I've been recommending for him.

I believe the 8.6 still requires an AR10 platform. For the AR15 you need a 338 Spectre or 338 Whisper #2

[TXGunNut]

Just realized this round may require a redesigned J-word for the masses desiring a hunting load. Most .338 J-words are designed for performance at much higher velocities.

Mike

[John McCorkle]

Just realized this round may require a redesigned J-word for the masses desiring a hunting load. Most .338 J-words are designed for performance at much higher velocities.

MikeFunny you say that

On a completely opposite end of the spectrum from cast boolits, a company is sort of partnering with/collaborating with the team designing this round. Go check out discreet ballistics...he has a wicked machined solid for 300 blk they are designing one up for the 338 Creed/8.6 Creed. This thing opens up to massive size...the 300 blk bullet is just fantastic (expensive but it's quality)

Designed for subsonic velocities...I think it's the best design for low velocity expansion I've seen. It's intriguing to me but I'm still so into cast bullets I can't spend the time equity on another avenue of shooting just yet (subsonic expansion)

David over at discreet ballistics is a super nice guy too.

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[TXGunNut]

I believe the 8.6 still requires an AR10 platform. For the AR15 you need a 338 Spectre or 338 Whisper #2

Probably so, not really much on the MSR's. As a Winchester collector I generally won't admit owning one. ;-) Not sure what to call S&W's .308, doesn't quite look like an AR10 but that's actually the one I was envisioning.

[rking22]

As to the intro on a bigger 300bo, seems interesting as I like efficient cartridges. Now as to whether it is more useful than other similar cartridges , well...
Seems all these new things are designed around the AR platform. Personally they hold no interest, the AR 10 is way too heavy for me to be interested. I always liked the idea of 338federal and had it been available my Kimber would have been so chambered.
Most of these new things are just a rehash of something from the past, updated. The 6.5 is a 250 Savage with a fast twist and very high pressure rating. I know its slightly bigger bore. The whole thing was to use the high BC bullets and get the thing to fit in the AR platform.
Im all for efficient cartridges, but whether it fits in an AR is of no concern to me. The new cartridge is less useful, real world than the 338federal, and I hardly ever see one of those. Good round but no sales, maybe the AR crowd can keep it afloat, who knows. What I would really like to see would have a rim and 100% case capacity with 4895 to drive 220 gr cast to 2000fps :) Long neck like the 3030 too, yeah its out there, but not a factory offering. All about marketing!!

[John McCorkle]

As to the intro on a bigger 300bo, seems interesting as I like efficient cartridges. Now as to whether it is more useful than other similar cartridges , well...
Seems all these new things are designed around the AR platform. Personally they hold no interest, the AR 10 is way too heavy for me to be interested. I always liked the idea of 338federal and had it been available my Kimber would have been so chambered.
Most of these new things are just a rehash of something from the past, updated. The 6.5 is a 250 Savage with a fast twist and very high pressure rating. I know its slightly bigger bore. The whole thing was to use the high BC bullets and get the thing to fit in the AR platform.
Im all for efficient cartridges, but whether it fits in an AR is of no concern to me. The new cartridge is less useful, real world than the 338federal, and I hardly ever see one of those. Good round but no sales, maybe the AR crowd can keep it afloat, who knows. What I would really like to see would have a rim and 100% case capacity with 4895 to drive 220 gr cast to 2000fps :) Long neck like the 3030 too, yeah its out there, but not a factory offering. All about marketing!!Bingo, I like the idea of efficiency, have played with varying thoughts around what would be most efficient and what is currently available easily...30/30 is high on the list but couldn't find a bolt action in it...well not easily, but did find a 300 blk bolt action for sale cheap and haven't looked back. Sits next to my 30 06, 308...and between the three feel very content

Have looked hard and long at that new Henry single shot chambered in 45/70...just can't find the reasoning enough to jump on it right now...the rifle looks great for it's price point and I've often thought a 45/70 would be a fantastic deer gun for Louisiana primitive firearm season (break open exposed hammer greater than .35 cal). A 357 mag chambered rifle like that from Henry would be even better for our close range hunting and give me room to load lighter plinkers for my boys

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[rking22]

I'm seeing the 8.7 thingy as a close competitor to the 357max without the pistol bullet capability. My new favorite deer rnd is 375 Winchester, always thought 38-55 was the perfect fit between 45-70 & 30-30.
Found the 375 BB94 and treat it as a really over built 38-55. Not an AR guy, for that matter bolt actions aren't a favorite either. This year the deer rifle will likely be a NO 1 in 7.62x39 , did I mention efficient :)

[John McCorkle]

I'm seeing the 8.7 thingy as a close competitor to the 357max without the pistol bullet capability. My new favorite deer rnd is 375 Winchester, always thought 38-55 was the perfect fit between 45-70 & 30-30.
Found the 375 BB94 and treat it as a really over built 38-55. Not an AR guy, for that matter bolt actions aren't a favorite either. This year the deer rifle will likely be a NO 1 in 7.62x39 , did I mention efficient :)Efficient for sure, I guess I started as a 30 cal shop (molds, sizing dies, gas check maker) when I got my 30 06 many moons ago...and have tried to stay with that in general...but also load for 38 spc., 357 mag, and 9mm which I have molds and sizing dies for now too...35 win and 35 whelen are also super interesting to me.

A dream would be a double rifle chambered in 35 whelen....with 358009 mold paper patched....that would be fantastic

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[Texas by God]

Rking22- E bait has a Williams FP for your BB ending today if you are interested. Back to the suppressor new cartridge. If it's in the AR15 it'll be interesting. In the AR10 grunt,sweat, no thanks.

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[Landy88]

...35 win and 35 whelen are also super interesting to me.

A dream would be a double rifle chambered in 35 whelen....with 358009 mold paper patched....that would be fantastic

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Not the Whelen, but your other round of interest the 35 Win was chambered in some doubles; and the last company commercially loading it was Kynoch, for that little market niche of Brit doubles and singles. Rare and not inexpensive but these exist.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

this has been a very good conversation...mostly...

>>> I cleaned up a few parts that were superfluous.

[TXGunNut]

Rking22- E bait has a Williams FP for your BB ending today if you are interested. Back to the suppressor new cartridge. If it's in the AR15 it'll be interesting. In the AR10 grunt,sweat, no thanks.

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Have you handled S&W's AR10 variant (M&P10)? It feels quite a bit lighter and better balanced than other AR10 variants but I may be wrong. It feels more like an AR15 to me. According to their site it's 24 ounces heavier than a similar M&P15. I dunno, seemed lighter to me.