Hi pressured load?

[Tripplebeards]

I tested out a GC and PC'd 270gr cast boolit out of my ruger 77/44 using 23.8 gr of W296. I load tested and worked the powder from minimum all the way up to 24 gr. With no signs of pressure.

The best group using this boolit and alloy combo is 23.8 gr of w296 powder. So I loaded up about 100 or so in two different additional range sessions and in each time out shooting three quarters of the way through both shooting sessions I had a stuck case. This is maybe after 30 rounds fired each time. I had to hit my bolt handle with my hand pretty hard to extract it. No damage was done either time. After I extracted the case in each session I inspected and kept firing an additional 15 to 20 rounds that fed and ejected smooth as silk with no issues or stuck cases after.

I am using matching cases and trimming after every firing so things should be consistent. I'm guessing maybe my powder scale might be throwing an inaccurate reading every once in a while? It's an RCBS master scale I bought about 17 to 18 years ago. I know it dose jump up and down a lot when the ac or heater is running. I did notice once I had a lead ring that shaved off like I slugged the bore sitting inside of the action. Could a random lead shaving be pinching the boolit or casing casing pressure? I've been shooting on some pretty warm days as well. Probably was in the 90's?


I did notice once in a while I would see a little round circle in my powder...a piece of trail boss that must have got caught in my trickler that mixed with w296 and I would fish it out. I'm wondering if a few pieces of trail boss were still mixed in and might have caused this?


Any ideas?

[Rcmaveric]

I had the problem with fillers gunking up the throat. All my rifles have tight tollerences. Would get a random case hard to extract. I have leaded a throat before and have inconsistent seating depths play havoc on my pressures.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Tripplebeards]

I have cleaned my rifle after every range session and scrubbed the barrel thinking I had leading. It's been nice and clean only having powder residue flowing every time.

[upnorthwis]

The first thing I would do is not have any air movement while weighing powder.

[Tripplebeards]

The first thing I would do is not have any air movement while weighing powder.

If the heater or AC kicks on while im weighing a charge i wait till it shuts off before remove it from the scale. That way all the vibrations come to a halt.

[Hickory]

The first thing I would do is not have any air movement while weighing powder.

The first thing I'd do is reduce the load one full grain to 22.8 of WW296.

[Tripplebeards]

The first thing I'd do is reduce the load one full grain to 22.8 of WW296.

I've tried. Grouping opens up with lower powder charges. I was thinking about seating the boolit out farther but I don't think there is any extra room for over all cartridge length. I'm at 1.640" right now and it feeds and functions.

[Hickory]

Try a different powder.
I wouldn't risk damaging my gun for a tighter group!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I tested out a GC and PC'd 270gr cast boolit out of my ruger 77/44 using 23.8 gr of W296.
How perfect is your PC coating?
You are near, or at the top of the pressure range for that load.
If you have an occasional PC'd boolit that's a bit thicker, that extra thickness could increase the measurement at the case mouth, which could increase pressure when fired, especially if your rifle has a tight chamber.
That's my 2¢

[Tripplebeards]

John, the PC is a nice thick coating but i size and GC it after PCing through my Lee sizing die so they should all be the same diameter.

If you look at the multi colored loaded rounds on my home page those are the rounds I used...I bounced them in another color after tumbling trying to remove the excess build up. Even though they were sized after PCing I wonder if the addition of the second uneven applied color caused a little excess build up? Can a thicker PC coating spring back a little after sizing? I plan on just doing single colors with this load on out. Going to use smokes clear so it's going to be smooth and even. I'm using a Lee factory crimp collet die and seating them past the crimp groove. All boolits have the same pressured crimp applied.



I think the only other powder I have to try is lil gun. Can't find load data for it to use with my devastators. Anyone have any data for this combo? I've read it's more temp sensitive than W296/h110?

Here's a pic of the boolits I used.

http://i.imgur.com/QKLHarW.jpg

I can see a finning line from the mold running along the light blue boolit. I would assume sizing would have squished it down where it counts when running it through my Lee sizer?

If the powder charge is to blame I would think it would have a sticky bolt every firing?...I would think not once after round count number 30 and then it fires the same round smooth as silk for another 15-20? The gun was well warmed up but not hot when it happened on both occasions.

I think I had some more trail boss granuals mixed in with the W296. I would assume mixed powder would cause this as well?

I'm starting to lean towards my jumping RCBS scale causing an inaccurate reading. I know I'm close to max and I did test 24 gr with no pressure signs.

Another idea, could this cause it...I just started tapping on my GC before running them through my Lee sizer recently because in the past I had a few that looked like the GC weren't evenly seated. I had either a little PC build up one side would catch on and smear a little lead up past the GC or have a little dent in the middle of the GC base from a little build up from the Sprue not cutting the lead base smooth and even.

[Rcmaveric]

PCing will also thicken the nose. So your nose sizes may be affecting seating depth if they varry alot. Sticking one into the lands or leade will spike your pressures.

[Tripplebeards]

PCing will also thicken the nose. So your nose sizes may be affecting seating depth if they varry alot. Sticking one into the lands or leade will spike your pressures.

I haven't taken a spent case and sat a boolit in it and see how far it pushes in when I cycle it into the action and measure the OAL length like I use to do with J words in the past. I've grown accustom to just loading to max OAL and calling it good. I'll give it a try and check my measurement.

[buckwheatpaul]

I have always found my finest accuracy about 1 to 2 grains below max no matter what powder I am using.....

[centershot]

The first thing I'd do is reduce the load one full grain to 22.8 of WW296.

^^^^^ This, exactly! The Winchester data book lists 24.0 grains of 296 as a MAXIMUM load under a 240 grain bullet! Your bullet is 30 grains heavier; I don't care how good the group is, your load is over pressure!

[Tripplebeards]

Lyman cast bullet handbook 4 th edition...

http://i.imgur.com/2SzmGHh.jpg

I'm one tenth of a grain over with a different style cast boolit max per this load data.

I just casted 11 pounds and 11 oz of 80/20 w 12% pewter added to the mix. I had a good casting session because 9 pounds and 6 oz worth of them weighed from 257.0gr to 257.9gr. Adding PC and a GC will add a grain or two set and done and the PC should reduce friction and pressures as well.

The data below is out of the same book and has my EXACT boolit/mold listed showing I'm at max loading...23.8 gr of w296 and my OAL is at 1.640", 30/1000's longer than published aol so i should be below the listed max pressure.



http://i.imgur.com/CuaF4SI.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

So I just clear PC'd my boolits today and annealed the GC's for the first time. I also tapped them on with a hammer before running them through my Lee sizing die. Normally I'll have a little line of smeared lead on top of the GC when running them straight through my Lee sizer directly. The little strip of lead mostly came off when tapping the GC on with a hammer. You can still see some shiny exposed PB above the GC. I'm wondering if this lead strip has come loose in the past inside the action and jamming in between the front of the nose if the boolit and the lands increasing pressure? I the lead rings i would find once in a great while was like I slugged the bore and it cut a ring of lead off the boolit. I found one or two in the action.

I would assume a little smeared lead is ok around the GC area?

Here are the boolits where you can see a little shiny lead above where the GC is seated and the lead shavings that came off where tapping on the GC. I've had PB smears on just about every GC seating since ive been casting these. I'm guessing it's common?

http://i.imgur.com/aNe0EWt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eGsQDIJ.jpg


I've been just running the boolits through my Lee sizing die prior w/o annealing the GC. If a GC Seated uneven and a little crooked would that cause the boolit to enter the chamber cock eyed causing higher pressures?

Lastly, did I overheat my GC? They look off colored and have a Pantene look like their old and oxidized.

[Hickory]

http://i.imgur.com/QKLHarW.jpg

I noticed in this picture that you over crimp your boolits. This will cause over pressure in a round that is near or at maximum pressure.
Try using a light crimp. If you are concerned about bullet pull, you can check it easy enough by measuring the OAL of the last cartridge in the gun after firing all others.

[Tripplebeards]

Hickory, I use a Lee factory crimp collet die being I seat the boolit short...past the crimp groove or it won't feed. I can lighten up on the crimp a little and retry. Just did it this way being it looks look a nice even crimp. Works great with 21gr of h110 and a softer alloy devastator (7.5 BH). It will shoot sub MOA. But with the harder alloy in using here(15.4 BH) it won't group tight till running max velocities.

[Tripplebeards]

PCing will also thicken the nose. So your nose sizes may be affecting seating depth if they varry alot. Sticking one into the lands or leade will spike your pressures.

This would make sense as well. I have been trimming off finning around the hp area and sanding the hp cavity flat which could vary the length of the boolit so seating depths could vary a hair. I'm going to make a dummy round to try and see what the max OAL is to make sure I'm not to close to the lands.

[Tripplebeards]

My aol of 1.640" is not the issue. It measured 1.705 twice

http://i.imgur.com/RPladPl.jpg

[high standard 40]

I have found that shearing lead from the gascheck shank has been detrimental to accuracy.....at least this is true in my guns.. To solve this issue, I made a tool to slightly flare my gaschecks so that they slip onto the bullet shank easily before sizing, which will then crimp the check in place. If you are having to use a hammer to seat your gaschecks, that can't possibly be a good thing.

[Tripplebeards]

I've read by many posters to start your GC by tapping them on with a hammer. I'm I missing something? After running them through the Lee sizer die my bases look perfect. There were a couple of GC that have dents in them I will cull or use for plinking ad not accuracy testing.

I tried to recalibrate my RCBS charge master scale this morning. It was stuck on hold. I unplugged and replugged it back in. No luck. I called RCBS. They walked me through calibration with it. It was taking 5-10 min to calibrate. RCBS told me it's probably at the end of its useful life but if it recalibrated, which it did, it was still good. I told her when I put my finger by it it always jumps up and down. She told me to use a dryer sheet and rub it down. I did and recalibrated it. It recalibrated close to normal time after that and now when I put my hand by it the scale is not jumping up and down. I believe the static has cause incorrect readings in the past abs is either part or all of the blame. I think the heavy crimp could be a factor as well.

I can say while loading the scale stayed more consistent than it has in a while after the bounce sheet rub down.

[high standard 40]

[QUOTE=Tripplebeards;4428305]I've read by many posters to start your GC by tapping them on with a hammer. I'm I missing something?
QUOTE]

Surely you can understand that using a hammer on a bullet made of lead alloy (read malleable) can not have a positive outcome.
Doing so is a good example of the old adage, " If it doesn't fit, force it".

[44MAG#1]

If you have trouble seating your gas checks because of a GC shank being too large in diameter take a bearing ball of the correct size, Set the GC's up on a piece of wood and set the ball in the check (self centers) and tap the ball lightly and check if it will go on. If not tap a little harder and try again. With a little experimenting you will be able to know how much to tap each one and you can expand many checks quickly with this method.
This is what I do on a 429422 Lyman bullet.


Again I mean no harm, hurt, distress or bitterness by what I have posted. It is based on my limited knowledge only and is presented as limited knowledge only. I am not trolling, baiting, or calling out anyone in any form or fashion. Please take it that way

[jsizemore]

Does your casting area use florescent light fixtures. That can mess with a digital scale.

I'm a bit confused. Are you seating the boolits to a shorter OAL to get them to feed? Less space for powder means higher pressures.
Brass out of the same lot usually has the same dimensions not the same head stamp. Have you tried sticking one of your PC'd/GC boolits in your fired cases.

[high standard 40]

To further explain the tool I made to expand gaschecks, I'll describe how I made it with simple tools we all likely have. Of course, the ball bearing that 44MAG#1 suggested will work if you can find one of the proper size. My tool for 44 caliber checks was made as follows:

I started with a common 7/16" bolt. Procure one that is long enough that you have about 3" of unthreaded shank to work with. A 7/16" bolt 5-6" long should work. Cut off the threaded section of the bolt and the head of the bolt. The shank of the bolt should be about .437" in diameter and works great for the 44 caliber checks. Chuck this in a drill or a drill press and spin it. While it's turning, hold a file against the end of the bolt shank to make it as flat as possible and squared to the shank. Then use the file to radius the bolt shank. The amount of applied radius will be a trial and error process. Go slow and check it often. I stopped short of the amount of radius needed on mine and then used sand paper to polish and bring it to my final dimensions. When done, place a gascheck on a hard, flat surface, cup side up, place the new tool on top of the check and tap the tool with a hammer. If you have your radius right, there is no way to over flare a check because the punch will bottom out on the bottom of the gascheck. The result is a perfect flare every time. See photo below. 7/16" bolt works for 44 Cal, 3/8" bolt works for 38 caliber, 5/16" bolt works for 7MM, and 1/4" bolt works for 22 caliber. 1/4" would probably work for 6MM and 25 caliber as well.

https://i.imgur.com/EwpxCXE.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

Does your casting area use florescent light fixtures. That can mess with a digital scale.

I'm a bit confused. Are you seating the boolits to a shorter OAL to get them to feed? Less space for powder means higher pressures.
Brass out of the same lot usually has the same dimensions not the same head stamp. Have you tried sticking one of your PC'd/GC boolits in your fired cases.

That's what the above photo I posted was a 1.705". I slid a loose boolit into a fired round and chambered it to find out my max OAL to make sure my boolit was touching the lands when loaded at 1.640".

44 mag max OAL length is any where from 1.610". I am loading them to 1.640" so I am out further to lower pressures.

Yes, I realize tapping the GC with a hammer could distort the lead boolit bases. I wasn't full on hammering a nail, I was lightly tapping the check to cut off excess lead that formed around my boolits base along with the excess PC build up. I held each boolit between my fingers while wearing a glove so the force of the taping was being recoiled by my hand going up and down. I did this because I've read that some posters do this to make sure that the checks seat evenly before running them through a sizer so I tried it. The reason they went on hard is because when my PC baked on the excess ran down to the base and onto the baking sheet leaving a flat build up. Kind of like a top hat. When I tapped the GC in place it trimmed the excess overflow PB of the boolits base off along with the extra PC build up. It dose this every time when I run my devastators through my Lee sizer as well and the excess lead smears between the GC and the first lube groove. I just cut it off this time before it entered the sizer making a cleaner GC to boolit base fit and look this way.

Anyways, I have already loaded up a new batch to try now that my scale has been recalibrated and did not jump up and down like it's been doing. I truly believe that my scale was the issue and it threw some higher charges than what it said. It was bouncing up and down a good .3 to .5 plus grains when I've been loading the last couple of times. I will be using clear coated PC boolits instead of the multi colored boolits to see if the excess PC build up played a factor. I also am testing 22.7 gr of h110. 22.5 gr groups around an 1 1/2" at a 100 yards and 23 g was larger so I figured I'd split the difference and try it. I also loaded up some lil gun loads from 20.5 to 21.5gr in .2 gr increments to try as well. I tried to crimp lighter but it looks about the same to me.


I was thinking of trying a noe base cutter that mounts on a drill. Anyone have one and how do they work?

I put a piece of thick rubber padding under my scale and taped the cord down to keep from moving. I can now put my finger near the scale and it doesn't jump up and down in grain readings after rubbing it with a bounce fabric sheet. Hopefully my issue is solved.

225191

And some of the clear coated loads. The crimp looks just as it did before...thought I did it lighter. The PC is thinner and smoother. We will see how they cycle tomorrow at the range.

http://i.imgur.com/8bQrent.jpg

http://imgur.com/3YOof7U

http://i.imgur.com/3YOof7U.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

Well, went to the range today to try out the loads. First I tried the dozen I loaded up with 23.8gr of h110 being I ran out of W296 and I was told it's the exact same powder. I set up my targets at a 100 yards as always. No pressure signs what so ever with 23.8 gr of h110 but my group opened with the best was 1.8". I then tried two, 3 shot groups with the lighter load of 22.7 of h110. It shot 1.6" both times.

I switched to my lil gun loads. I loaded 3 shells of 5 different loads. 21.5,21.2,21.0,20.8, and 20.5gr.

My best group was with 21.2 gr of lil gun which shot 1.273" at a hundred yards and the second best was 20.8 gr that shot 1.5"

I'm switching over to 21.2gr of lil gun with this alloy. It's under max load and it shot just as tight as the old accurate 23.8 gr of w296 before the sun and the moon rotated, and without all the kick and no pressure signs. I wonder if my groups opened up being I mixed up a new batch of alloy and casted a few weeks ago and the alloy isn't fully cured? I tested both an old boolit and the new alloy. Both tested the same BH. Either that or now that the scale is working more consistent it could have thrown a different weight measurement before? I guess the world will never know. I would assume the 21.2 gr load of lil gun should be slower than 23.8 gr of w296 so it should help with a little weight retention on my hollow point boolit. I recovered a perfect 155 gr mushroom shooting it in a tote full of water with the w296 load so hopefully I'll have a 175 plus grain mushroom with a lighter charge of lil gun. I'm guessing I'm around 1700 fps? I'll have to find a test tote or two, fill them with water, and light em up!

http://i.imgur.com/EX8QKr1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0vznEHK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gfTCfsl.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

The scale ended up being the issue. I used it again today and after the 4th, 21.1gr charge sitting in the pan it jumped from 12gr-44gr in matter of seconds. RCBS confirmed it and recommended either their 98940 combo scale or a 98915. Im shopping as we speak. That $189 investment i bought back in 2000 lasted a long time. I think RCBS was shocked my scale lasted 18 years. Sounds like they last 5-6 years in average.

[44MAG#1]

I am using a scale ( balance beam) that I bought when I started reloading. I am still using it. Ive tried two electronic scales and both (Lyman) have been poor performers.
Oh well.

Again I mean no harm, hurt, anguish or ill will to anyone by my post. It is based on my knowledge only and is not meant in any way to be harmful to anyone here. Please take it or leave it as you see fit.

[Tripplebeards]

I never used my balance beam scale that came with my kit 18 years ago. Sold it for $45 a few years back. Should have kept it. I ordered a RCBS charge lite digital dispenser today.