OAL/seating of HG68 in 45 ACP?

[brewer12345]

I will be picking up a new 45 on Monday and am working on getting some test leads ready. I have a bunch of HG68 boolits cast (Lee copy) with enough for samples sized at .452 and lubed. As I look at them, a question comes to mind: Are these designed to seat to the groove? I have much less experience loading pistol rounds than revolver. Does the case mouth end up in the groove or above it? Pictures or descriptions of what others do with success would be helpful.

[reddog81]

H&G 68 has no crimp groove, only a lube groove. I load at 1.24 to 1.25 for my 1911's and that worked fine for my new Glock 21 also. There should be a sliver of the front driving band showing.

What gun? Someone might be able to give better advice if we know the exact gun.

[ShooterAZ]

Every gun is a little different. I use the "plunk test" to determine OAL.

Here's a link w/photos. http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/

[gwpercle]

H&G 68 has no crimp groove, only a lube groove. I load at 1.24 to 1.25 for my 1911's and that worked fine for my new Glock 21 also. There should be a sliver of the front driving band showing.

What gun? Someone might be able to give better advice if we know the exact gun.

Back in the day it was a "sliver" or the "thickness of your thumbnail" since my thumb was handy I went with the nail thickness.....With the lack of precision , it's a wonder how we reloaded anything.
Back then you did a lot of seat pants flying !

[brewer12345]

Springfield xdm.

I plan to use the plunk test for sure. Knowing that the brass ends somewhere on the front driving band is real helpful.

[Cherokee]

For my XDM 5.25" I'm using 1.243" OAL, same as for my 1911's.

[Tatume]

I use 1/32" as a guide, but I judge it by eye. Many people will load them flush with the case mouth, which results in frequent failures to feed, and dented case mouths.

Equally important is the amount of crimp. I use 0.469" and get excellent reliability. As little as 0.003" more (0.472") will catch and cause failures to feed in some guns (not all).

[Taterhead]

With the little extra material on the shoulder from PC, I seat the Lee clone to 1.235" for a 1911. Any longer will give an inconsistent kerplunk.

[PowPow]

H&G 68 has no crimp groove, only a lube groove. I load at 1.24 to 1.25 for my 1911's and that worked fine for my new Glock 21 also. There should be a sliver of the front driving band showing.

What gun? Someone might be able to give better advice if we know the exact gun.

I seat my H&G 68s at 1.241 in my Ruger SR1911.

[DonH]

This will likely make y'all crazy but...
Since I first started reloading .45 ACP for 1911 bullseye gun most of 40 years ago I have never measured oal. How I learned it was to "trial & error" seating depth until the case of a dummy round dropped into the chamber of a vertical barrel came flush with hood above the chamber. This done to headspace the lead bullet round on the bullet. The .45ACP only headspaces on the case mouth purely by chance as no case I ever measured came close to being as long as spec. H&G 68s seated this way have always fed thru 1911 magazines, have fed reliably and shot accurately.

[PowPow]

This will likely make y'all crazy but...
Since I first started reloading .45 ACP for 1911 bullseye gun most of 40 years ago I have never measured oal. How I learned it was to "trial & error" seating depth until the case of a dummy round dropped into the chamber of a vertical barrel came flush with hood above the chamber. This done to headspace the lead bullet round on the bullet. The .45ACP only headspaces on the case mouth purely by chance as no case I ever measured came close to being as long as spec. H&G 68s seated this way have always fed thru 1911 magazines, have fed reliably and shot accurately.

That's how I arrived at mine. The only difference is that I measured it. Why? So I could document it in my load book. That helps when I change my press and want to come back and crank out more of the same later. Knowing the COL from before helps to get to where I was before. I still check it in the barrel and adjust accordingly.

[lightman]

This will likely make y'all crazy but...
Since I first started reloading .45 ACP for 1911 bullseye gun most of 40 years ago I have never measured oal. How I learned it was to "trial & error" seating depth until the case of a dummy round dropped into the chamber of a vertical barrel came flush with hood above the chamber. This done to headspace the lead bullet round on the bullet. The .45ACP only headspaces on the case mouth purely by chance as no case I ever measured came close to being as long as spec. H&G 68s seated this way have always fed thru 1911 magazines, have fed reliably and shot accurately.

Yeah, me too! But looking at some of my loaded rounds there is about 1/64th, maybe 1/32nd of an inch of the driving band showing above the case mouth. Like someone else posted, about a thumbnail width.

My suggestion is load a few and try them before cranking out a lot.

[jcren]

225023


Bad pic, but should help. I thought they didnt look right when i started, never having seen one before, but this works for me with a .470ish crimp.

Lee mold with green/clear powfer coat.

[Taterhead]

Here is what my Lee #68 clones look like seated to a length that will kerplunk. Looks close to jcren's pic.


https://s20.postimg.cc/53m4f90b1/20180429_212403.jpg

[brewer12345]

Awesome, thanks guys! I know what to look for. I will start at around 1.24" and see if it plunks. Once I get a length the pistol likes, I will load test rounds.

Seeing how these boolits end up in the case, it isn't surprising they feed well. Almost looks like a small-nosed TC rather than a SWC.

[Texas by God]

They became my favorite .45 acp boolit long ago over 5 grs of Bullseye. I use the thumbnail method or more correctly the eyeball method.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Forrest r]

https://i.imgur.com/rQlREhC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lxO5I66.jpg

[BD]

This depends on whether your pistol has a throat, or not. A properly throated barrel should accept the #68 seated as long as 1.245, (The OAL originally listed in the Lyman cast bullet manual for the #68 design), with no problems. A barrel with any kind of throat will generally accept 1.240
They are three issues that can occur when seating the #68 very short, (just a "sliver" of drive band beyond the case mouth).
1. They don't feed as well as the bullet nose does not contact the feed ramp at the angle it was designed for.
2. You may not get a secure taper crimp if there is not enough of the front drive band beyond the crimp to hold the crimp when it hits the feed ramp. I see jambs from this occasionally at matches with the offending round having the boolit shoved back into the case and the round nose up.
3. Leading in the first 1/2" of the barrel caused by the leading edge of the front drive band not being in the throat beyond the headspace "lip" of the chamber when the round is fired. This often results in a small sliver of lead being shaved off of the leading edge of the front drive band of each round which then gets ironed into the first half inch of the grooves by subsequent shots. You can ID this by leading in the lower half of the very beginning of the lands. This can cause significant leading if the boolits are also oversized, like using a .452 sizer for a barrel that is actually 4.505 In that case you may be actually shaving a small ring off the entire circumference of each round as they're fired and you will see leading in the grooves all the way around the first 1/2" or so of the barrel.

[BD]

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you use range brass, like I do, the case lengths are going to be all over the place so any given loaded round may show more, or less, lead in front of the case mouth even though they are all the same COAL.

[BD]

I'd say Forrest has his dialed in!

[brewer12345]

Thanks, BD. I am planning to try a plated load first, then the HG68s. With the HG68s, I plan to let the plunk test guide me. I will be shooting maybe 25 rounds of the lead loads and then taking the thing home for cleaning, so if there is leading it should be pretty apparent.

[waco]

Every gun is a little different. I use the "plunk test" to determine OAL.

Here's a link w/photos. http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/

yep. This....

[Beau Cassidy]

1.25 inch length by .470 crimp is a bullseye standard

[Leadmelter]

I do the plunk test since I have two 45s. The base of the case should line up with the hood of the barrel. I make two dummy rounds to reset the dies.
Leadmelter
MI

[brewer12345]

Well, I shot the new pistol and tried out my loads. After a box of factory ball to make sure everything worked, I tried a series of plated and cast loads based on bullseye. Everything plunked, so it Fed fine. I need to clean the gun and really confirm it, but a.quick look at the range.showed no leading. I found a middle charge plated load that I liked. I found a very accurate lead load, but it was right at 6 grains. Lyman 4 lists this charge as top end as well as the most accurate in their tests. I usually try to stay away from max loads out of general conservatism in these matters. This load was so accurate I am tempted to call it the one. Does six grains of bullseye strike anyone as foolhardy or dangerous under a 200 grain hg68 boolit?

[PowPow]

What is your intended purpose? IMHO, there are better powders if you want to send H&G 68 cast boolits downrange at 900+ fps. Check out Accurate No. 2, Accurate No. 5, or Power Pistol. Even Win 231 will get you there and will probably be an overall better load.

[brewer12345]

Goal is a target load. I want accuracy, don't care about velocity as long as it runs the pistol consistently.

I also noted some leading, which is frustrating. Everything I read said 45 ACP isn't usually picky about alloy, so I cast these from range lead with some pewter added for the tin. I see light leading the length of the barrel (skidding?). I used two coats of BLL, but I an thinking that perhaps an additional coat of straight alox may be worth trying. I am also seriously considering taking up powder coating as an antidote to the leading monster.

[reddog81]

For a target load I'd try 4.5 grains of Bullseye. 45 ACP can definitely lead and lead badly. I decided to powder coating after I had a giant pain cleaning out some 1911 barrels and haven't looked back.

[brewer12345]

Yeah, I just put in an order at Amazon for a bunch of copper chore boys. *sigh*

What is the learning curve for powder coating? Is there any way to remove conventional lube from boolits to be able to powder coat?

[PowPow]

I agree with reddog. I'd much rather have a box full of 4.5gr Bullseye H&G68 loads at my Bullseye league. My current load uses 3.9gr Ramshot Competition with H&G 68s (no leading to speak of). I assume you've slugged your barrel and sized them accordingly. I'd try changing the load before changing the lube. I've also used Bullseye, Red Dot, and TiteGroup for target loads. When my current supply of Competition runs out (it's a great bargain as powder goes!), I'm going to work up one with N310. Later, maybe Green Dot or WST.

[reddog81]

Learning how to powder coat is fairly easy. It's kind of like learning to cast - it's easy once you get the hang of it. There are a couple of rules you need to follow, but everything you need to know is spelled out in detail on the "Coatings and Alternatives" sub-forum. It's possible to remove old lube, but personally I wouldn't do it. Just load them up, shoot 'em and clean afterwards.