Big Decisions

[fatelk]

Here's a theoretical situation, with a theoretical decision to be made.

Say you have a job in an area that you like. You have a wife and several young kids that love where they live. The job is good, great boss and coworkers, interesting and challenging work. The drawback is the company stinks. Due to certain factors you're looking at a possible decrease in income over the next couple years, structural changes regarding benefits, with very substantial impact for those insuring a family. Money is a bit tight.

An awesome job opportunity comes up. You have been offered a job over a thousand miles away in a very different geographical location, different weather and culture than you're used to. It's the same kind of work, working with/for someone you know and work with well. The pay and benefits are significantly better and the move would be paid for.

As to career it's a no-brainer, but it's in a bigger city with a lot more traffic, crowding, and crime. The wife is opposed, and the kids are in tearful dread of moving. The upside would be not having to stress about money so much anymore, but the potential downside is everybody hating it, saying Why did we ever move?!

So, theoretical situation. If it were real, I'd have already made my decision I think, but I'd be second guessing the wisdom of it. I wouldn't be asking for advice per se, just thoughts on the subject.

Any thoughts?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

First I will say, Money isn't everything, I would stay where you are, simplify your life and work toward becoming debt-free if you currently have debt.
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You say "Money is a bit tight" where you are now...what does that mean?

This new job and new location, you claim "The upside would be not having to stress about money so much anymore"...what does that mean?
------------------------------------

I've been lucky (or wise?), I've never stressed about money, and I've almost never had any debt.

The only friends (and fellow co-workers) of mine that stress over money, and make a lot more than I ever did when I was working, but they have debt, a lot of debt, and always have reasons to get farther in debt.

I have a few friends that don't stress about money, and both of those families make less then I did when I was working, but neither family has any debt.
---------------------------------

So it may sound like I am preaching about Debt...I am not, but I am curious if your money stress is really Debt Stress?
The simple solution is to get rid of the Debt... that will end the stress.

It really doesn't take much money to live comfortably in "small town" USA, if you live a simple and debt-free life.

[fatelk]

We have no debt besides the house. We live fairly simple lives, no fancy toys, big vacations, or nice cars. The financial worries involve not being able to save much for the future, having kids that will be college age in the not too distant future, and hoping to retire some day eventually.

We live in a big town with a small town feel, rural and agricultural. The cost of living is high though. If we hadn't bought our house years ago there would be no way we could afford it now, and it's really nothing special. I was talking to my sister in Indiana a while back, comparing the cost of living. My property taxes alone aren't that much less than her whole mortgage payment!

My "theoretical" decision is made; I just have to think out loud a bit and mull things over. It's not often opportunities like this come along, and it's painful to turn one down.

[facetious]

"You say have a job in an area that you like. You have a wife and several young kids that love where they live."

"The job is good, great boss and coworkers, interesting and challenging work. The drawback is the company stinks."

I can feel for you.

One thing to remember is that your family at home is the real one. The one at work is not. A great boss will sell you out to save his butt and how much do you think about coworkers when you are not at work?

I have had a good job for 38 year's that I have come to hate. And have came close to quiting a few times over the years. Every thing I liked about it and that made it fun to go to work when I started, started to change in the mid 90's and at 61 i'm just running out the clock. I do not know how many times i have wondered what life would be like if i had quit to chase some dream.

But at the same time i still had to think about my real life. My wife has had a lot of health problems and health care became more inportant and then in 1995 my dad died and i found my self careing for a mom with alzheimer's for eight years. Some where in that time i had to just face the fact that pay checks pay bill's and life had a lot of bill's. So i just bit the boolit and stuck it out. In the end for me it was the right thing for me to do. Next year i hope to retier.

When i was a kid my dad was always telling me that "if you are not thinking ten years a head you are all ready ten years behind." I think that is what kept me going, being abale to see down the road to where i wanted to be and what it was going to take to get there.

You need to have a good talk with your wife about where you want to be in your life ten or twenty years from now and what it is going to take to make it happen. But as i found after fifty life has a way of just adding it on making it harder to change.

If you like where you live and your life there good and you have family and good friends, that will be a hard thing to give up. It may be the best thing is to stick it out or mybe a different job that that you don't have to move for. Or you may find that in the long run the only way to achieve your goles in life will take you on paths that you would never have dreamed of.

[EDG]

New city, new culture?
Have you ever lived anywhere else?
How do you know the weather will be a problem?
Sometimes you can like a new location more than your original home.

The way you avoid crime in a larger city often means buying a more expensive nhome in a crime free area.

There are risks staying where you are. There is no guarantee your existing job will last. There is no guarantee of anything.
At some point in time you have to make a command decision regardless of what your family thinks. They know what they know and want what they want but they do not go to work or pay the bills and do not understand what they have is not permanent.

[Tatume]

When I finished grad school and was actively looking for employment in my field, I had opportunities with NOAA. The jobs were in D.C., and I would have had to live in Northern Virginia. I didn't even go for an interview.

Where I am now I'm making about half the pay, but my wife and I are happy. We live in a rural community, close to the Chesapeake Bay and our boat. My choice was quality over quantity.

[crowbuster]

I faced this very thing when my boys were small. I just could not make the move. Yes I would have been set for life. But that just aint livin. 4 lane hiway just to get a loaf of bread wasnt for me. Foolish ? maybe. but im happy

[Lloyd Smale]

pretty simple answer. You have a family. Move and when you retire move back if you find after living there you prefer it to the new place. First responsibility in my opinion is providing the best for them. Your preference is second. Also because a job is in the city doesn't mean you have to live in the projects. If you cant put a loaf a bread on the table a that's in paradise is just a round piece of wood that doesn't taste to good. I know lots of people who live there whole lives for 10-15 bucks an hour because even at 30 cant cut the apron strings from there family. There family suffers because they want to play softball with there high school buddys or are just plain chicken ____ of change. Sounds like you have a skill set. Go there and work a couple years. If you don't like it start looking elsewhere. Also don't use the kids wanting to stay. Kids don't understand whats best for them. That's your job. When I was 5 my ma and dad packed up and moved. All of us kids were mad but the job opportunitys just weren't there where we lived. In about 2 months we all had new friends and grew up in a area that has jobs even for my kids and grandkids. Best thing they ever did. They would still be there in that rickity old house and I would have had to move to get a job. You move now and maybe your kids will be able to settle in that area and get a good job too.

[snowwolfe]

Wife and I always loved moving when we were working. Expands your horizons and you learn what to like or dislike before settling on a forever house.
But just because the new job offers more money doesn’t mean you will come out ahead. Takes a lot of research into the new area as far as cost of housing, utilities, insurance, taxes, etc.

However, you would be making a mistake if everyone in your family hated the idea except for you. That would be a foolish move.

[Bulldogger]

Both sides have their pros and cons, as several have outlined preceding.

I second the advice to focus on family, I did not and am looking at starting a (full) family now at 46. I'm excited, but God only knows when I can retire...

The guy who sits next to me at work is new and made his family move from the only home the kids have ever known because he was bored and stagnant at his old job. He took a pay cut and moved to a more expensive area on top of that. I expect he's going to be in the doghouse until his kids leave home and he can move into one of their bedrooms.

As far as schooling: my attitude towards college for my son (and future kids) is what it was from my parents: "Good luck". There are several ways to fund college if you really want/need to go, and they don't have to involve student loans. There are all kinds of local scholarships, from VFW, Am. Legion, churches, it's a long list where I live. They are small and must be competed for, but half of ours are almost handed out by word of mouth, so few kids try to find scholarships now. They add up. If your kids can't beat the bushes and qualify for any scholarships, well, if it were my kid I'd point him to vocational school, but he knows firsthand I'm not very sympathetic to those who don't apply themselves in school. Not saying you should browbeat your kids, just questioning an automatic requirement for 4-year college. If they go to college, even on their own initiative, there will be expenses you will help them with, sure, but I believe firmly that parents are not obliged to pay all the bills plus room and board for their kids to major in beer pong at WVU for 6 years either. Sorry, soapbox item for me. Please forgive me if I said too much.


Were it me, I'd stay, and keep options open for a place to jump when the place you're at becomes toxic. Leave before it gets really bad, before your resume picks up any tainting, if possible. Having an exit strategy, doesn't have to mean moving to another state/world.

Bulldogger

[rockrat]

My Father-in-law had the same scenario. He ended up going by himself and would just catch a cheap flight back home every two weeks or so.
I have heard that there are those that live in Utah, that catch a flight to LA on Sunday evening, work the week in LA and then catch a flight home Friday night. Cheap roundtrip flights that the higher pay more than makes up for.
Don't know if thats an option for you or not.

Remember the old saying "Happy Wife, Happy Life"?

[popper]

Rule 1: wives and kids don't like change. They are social animals. They will get used to the change but gripe a lot at first.
#2: Can't really depend on the 'new' job having anymore longevity than present one.
#3 cost of move is pretty high but can be managed - but it will take up all of your 'pocket' money.

[fatelk]

Like I said, the command decision has been made. The cost of living is a little less there, but to live in a better area where you won’t get shot and robbed, the commute is a lot longer. The cost of a move shouldn’t be a problem because of the relocation package.

If it was just my wife and I, it would be one thing, but where we are now is a far better place to raise a family, hands down. Everything I read about the other place says that a huge problem there is a lack of decent jobs, especially for young people. Raising my family is priority for me, and I have no doubt that where we are now is the better place for that. That was pretty much the decision in a nutshell. All the other considerations are mostly second guessing.

Then there’s moving. I hate moving. We started our family late so 40 is long in the rear view mirror. The whole process of moving is traumatic; you lose a year of your life. I wish I could be one of those people who can pick up and move on a whim, but that’s not us. My wife says the very thought of moving again makes her physically ill.

I have a good job as it is with no real need to travel or move at this time. I’m lucky to have such a good job in a more rural area like this. It just hurts to turn down a great opportunity. The more I think it through, the more convinced I am that we’re making the right decision. Could we make it work with the move? Yes, I’m sure we could, but aside from having more money I think we would all spend years wondering why we did it and wishing we hadn’t.

[hithard]

Brother,

I live in a big metro area, san Francisco bay area outer parts. I have a good job, work 4 tens , easy six figure. NO problem making ends meet and then cutting the rest off.

Will trade it for rural living and a happy family in a heartbeat.

To much traffic, 18 miles to work all highway.45 min to, and 1 to 1.5 yrs home. Everyone is stressed. Couple of daylight home burglaries every month in my city, Great town, the best in the east bay.

Lots of hood rats in surrounding towns, all the towns touch one another by the way. Not what you want to expose your kids to.

The grass is not all that green, it's just the money. Relax and enjoy being king in your castle, the queen is happy, and so are the kids, you should be proud. I would be

[Handloader109]

Money isn't everything. But I had a job for 16 years. First 10 were great next 2 were ok, last 4 were a horror as company had been sold and money was being siphoned off and we ultimately closed. Was a really long commute 65 miles one way, but easy rural drive. Next job lasted 5 years in our hometown, but they closed down and I relocated to northwest arkansas. Didn't want to, but now love the area. Job lasted 6 years till it sold and they found a way to fire a number of us long term employees over a 4 month period. But that's life. Again, money isn't everything, I owe nothing but my home mortgage. And i make ends meet. Life is good.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[shooter93]

I have had several chances for better jobs in my life. Jobs that offered insurances, benefits, and retirement. I turned them all down preferring to work for myself at what I love doing. We love our house and property and the area. We have had a very hard time over the years. Health insurance costing 2,000 bucks a month etc. We managed to save some money but took a real bath in the finicial collapse so retirement is gone now. Toss in some very serious health issues that kept me in the hospital most of a year and a very long recovery to where I can start working again. I've been at this over 50 years already and it looks like I'll be doing it untill I die. Would I change things and taken those jobs?.....No.....never.......despite all that we have loved being here and together and to me that far out weighs the other stuff.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm squarely with Lloyd on this.

You're the adult, the kids don't really get a say, although you can make them think they are involved. The wife must be on-board with the decision. In the end, the adults make the decision and kids deal with it.

As for the big city part, that's not a deal breaker. The reason cities grow large is due to the economic opportunity they offer. Furthermore, cities aren't all bad and they offer experience that rural locations don't. You don't have live there forever.

Military personal, their spouses and their children move frequently. It can be a positive experience that produces resilient, adaptable children that cope with the challenges of life far better than people than have never been stressed. Moving away from friends and familiar settings is difficult but it will not kill you. Kids are resilient and will make new friends. In the end, they will be stronger adults.

You make hay when the sun is shining. That means if opportunity presents itself, you take it or lose it.
That doesn't mean you jump from one city to another but it does mean when a significantly better option presents itself, you capitalize on it.

If you do your financial planning right, you'll have the ability to go where you want later on. If you don't make money when you can, you'll never have that option.

[smokeywolf]

Not enough information to make a decision.
How much longer until retirement?
I made a living doing work that I liked. Had pretty good pay and great benefits. Earned an average pension, with incredible health insurance. Even though I was born here, haven't liked where I lived for the last 35 years.

How much longer until your kids start college? In-state tuition is way, way less than out-of-state tuition. If you are living in a state that has a great university that you think your kids can gain admission to, that's something that should be considered.
I have a son starting college soon. Although he's been accepted to a top university, would like to have seen him go to a more conservative school like maybe, Texas A&M. Out of state tuition was prohibitive for us.

[fatelk]

Thanks for all the input everyone. At this point it is truly a theoretical discussion because any real decisions have already been made, and I'm comfortable with that.

I'm sure some of you will think I'm an idiot for choosing family over career, as do a couple of my coworkers. It's my decision and I'm good with it. The kids don't get a say, but my wife and I are in agreement that we would much rather raise them here than there.

As to picking up and moving on a regular basis, it's just not going to happen for us. I'll move if I have to for work, and we'd move for the ideal location, but realistically there's just no way we're going to move somewhere that we're pretty sure we all would not like, just for a little more money. We can't always come back; it's just not that easy.

I know people often feel differently about moving around, and I agree that a person should be open to the idea of moving if necessary, but personally I hate it. I think our culture is too nomadic in general. I've had friends who have moved around a lot. Right or wrong, I won't live that way. There's just no way at this point in life that I'm going to move somewhere with an eye towards moving again in a few years. If the nomadic lifestyle works for you, great. It's not for us.

This has been the second excellent job opportunity that I've had in the last few months, and the second that I've turned down. I've had legitimate, logical reasons for that. The biggest reason for being so picky is that I've already got a pretty good job that I like, so I figure I can afford to be a little picky. We'll be fine here in the long run if need be. We may not be able to put much aside for savings for a while, or help the kids much with college when the time comes. We won't ever drive new cars, or probably even nice used ones, but that has more to do with being frugal and avoiding debt. I know plenty of people with less financial means who drive much nicer cars. We're far from destitute; we're just frugal. I could write a check for a late model used car tomorrow if I wanted to, but we worked hard to save that money and I think it would be foolish to waste it on a car.

[lightman]

I was going to wish you Luck with your decision but it seems like you have already made it. I had that decision to make several years ago. Probably much easier than yours. My job went by seniority and a bunch of guys younger than me were ahead of me. I was looking at being middle age or more before getting a position with more responsibility, pay or easier duty. So I moved. Same company. Moved from a city of 70K (which is now 49K) to a town of 3K. Not very far away, about 40 miles, but the job required me to be within a certain distance. We left friends behind. We still see some of them and made new ones. The kids left friends behind. Same thing, they still see a few of the old ones and made new ones. We left family behind. We liked our new place well enough that our families later followed us. The new job gave me more responsibility and caused me to grow and mature. I made more money and that boosted my retirement. We're still here!

There are a lot of things to think about here. Money is not everything but having enough and a little extra is nice. You do need to make enough to save for retirement. A job with benefits and retirement will make your life easier and better. Happiness is important to but it needs to be factored into other things. My job was difficult for the first couple of years, the middle 30 years were great and the last 2 were tough. Now they pay me to not come to work and I get to sleep through thunderstorms.

Sorry for rambling so long! Good Luck in your decision.

[Lloyd Smale]

kids deal with it just fine. Some of the nicest and best adjusted kids I met were kids of the people stationed at the air force base that went to school with us. They used to move about every two years and had to learn social skills, learn to make new friends and you rarely saw then in the typical high school clics. Probably a good life lesson that they take with them into adulthood. As to wives. Moving them away from there mothers has probably saved MANY marriages!!
Rule 1: wives and kids don't like change. They are social animals. They will get used to the change but gripe a lot at first.
#2: Can't really depend on the 'new' job having anymore longevity than present one.
#3 cost of move is pretty high but can be managed - but it will take up all of your 'pocket' money.

[fatelk]

Brother,

I live in a big metro area, san Francisco bay area outer parts. I have a good job, work 4 tens , easy six figure. NO problem making ends meet and then cutting the rest off.

Will trade it for rural living and a happy family in a heartbeat.

To much traffic, 18 miles to work all highway.45 min to, and 1 to 1.5 yrs home. Everyone is stressed. Couple of daylight home burglaries every month in my city, Great town, the best in the east bay.

Lots of hood rats in surrounding towns, all the towns touch one another by the way. Not what you want to expose your kids to.

The grass is not all that green, it's just the money. Relax and enjoy being king in your castle, the queen is happy, and so are the kids, you should be proud. I would be

Thank you! I appreciate your comments.

[Lloyd Smale]

bottom line is you've probably already made your mind up and you have to do what your heart tells you. Just keep in mind that most people spend more time at work then with there familys and the anger and discontent from a bad job usually makes its way home. IF you think you an except your situation and learn to be happy in it then stay. But if your company is in bad enough shape to have to restructure and cut wages don't be a bit surprised if it doesn't happen again or even worse they cut jobs. Nobody here knows that situation like you do. Just look at it with open eyes. I was faced with a similar problem early in my carreer. I worked a power generating plant in a nice town. There were lots of rumors that they were going to close that plant so I figured id be one up on everyone and when a posting for a lineman in another town came up I jumped on it. Starting as an apprentice I took a 3 dollar an hour CUT in pay. My wife and kids weren't happy. I questioned it myself after 10 years when the plant wasn't shut down yet. Well about 8 years before I would have had time to retire it closed. No warning.They were told its shutting down Friday on Wednesday. they knew before that but didn't want everyone quiting or posting out and not having staff to run it till it shut down. There were 75 people working there. They posted a list of 20 jobs all to far away to commute. 8 had time to retire and did. the twenty jobs were sucked up (and they weren't great jobs) immediately according to seniority. the rest of the crew got absolutely nothing. So looking back who made the intelligent choice. I ended up in a nice town with a job that eventualy paid much more then I was making there. Guys with the same seniority as me took jobs like janitors and larbores at sometimes half what they were making and forced to find money to move and move to places they didn't want to live. This is the kind of scenario I pray you don't fall into.. This kind of thing happens EVERY DAY.
Thanks for all the input everyone. At this point it is truly a theoretical discussion because any real decisions have already been made, and I'm comfortable with that.

I'm sure some of you will think I'm an idiot for choosing family over career, as do a couple of my coworkers. It's my decision and I'm good with it. The kids don't get a say, but my wife and I are in agreement that we would much rather raise them here than there.

As to picking up and moving on a regular basis, it's just not going to happen for us. I'll move if I have to for work, and we'd move for the ideal location, but realistically there's just no way we're going to move somewhere that we're pretty sure we all would not like, just for a little more money. We can't always come back; it's just not that easy.

I know people often feel differently about moving around, and I agree that a person should be open to the idea of moving if necessary, but personally I hate it. I think our culture is too nomadic in general. I've had friends who have moved around a lot. Right or wrong, I won't live that way. There's just no way at this point in life that I'm going to move somewhere with an eye towards moving again in a few years. If the nomadic lifestyle works for you, great. It's not for us.

This has been the second excellent job opportunity that I've had in the last few months, and the second that I've turned down. I've had legitimate, logical reasons for that. The biggest reason for being so picky is that I've already got a pretty good job that I like, so I figure I can afford to be a little picky. We'll be fine here in the long run if need be. We may not be able to put much aside for savings for a while, or help the kids much with college when the time comes. We won't ever drive new cars, or probably even nice used ones, but that has more to do with being frugal and avoiding debt. I know plenty of people with less financial means who drive much nicer cars. We're far from destitute; we're just frugal. I could write a check for a late model used car tomorrow if I wanted to, but we worked hard to save that money and I think it would be foolish to waste it on a car.

[fatelk]

As to the effect of frequent moving on kids, I really don’t know. My only direct experience has been with two different friends I’ve had as an adult. Both had moved frequently growing up. I knew both of them fairly well at different times in my life. I thought we were pretty good friends, but after they moved away I never heard from them. I’d try to stay in touch a little but it seemed clear that as I was outside of their geographic circle, I no longer existed. It seemed odd to me.

I developed this assumption that those who move a lot tend to be more shallow in their relationships. Perhaps that’s unfair and wrong, but I do wonder. It makes sense to me that when you’re always leaving everything behind every couple years, you’d get good at making new friends, and equally good at forgetting them.

As to the move it’s very simple: if we thought it would be good for the family, better location for raising a family or whatever; we would go. There were several things that I just didn’t feel right about, and ultimately I realized that the only positive thing about it was money. There’s a lot more to life than money.

[Shingle]

Been there done that stay put money is not everything. I write this sitting in the home i started out in, working the same job and i am alot happier.

[jmort]

You made the right decision for you. Too many are materalistic or lust for $$$. Your family comes first after God. Not sure about money, but it is not in my top three.
It does not take anything other than common sense to know that uprooting children is not in their best interest, but there are studies to support the common sense notion that children need stability for optimal adulthood, not a new car.

[fatelk]

bottom line is you've probably already made your mind up and you have to do what your heart tells you. Just keep in mind that most people spend more time at work then with there familys and the anger and discontent from a bad job usually makes its way home. IF you think you an except your situation and learn to be happy in it then stay. But if your company is in bad enough shape to have to restructure and cut wages don't be a bit surprised if it doesn't happen again or even worse they cut jobs. Nobody here knows that situation like you do. Just look at it with open eyes. I was faced with a similar problem early in my carreer. I worked a power generating plant in a nice town. There were lots of rumors that they were going to close that plant so I figured id be one up on everyone and when a posting for a lineman in another town came up I jumped on it. Starting as an apprentice I took a 3 dollar an hour CUT in pay. My wife and kids weren't happy. I questioned it myself after 10 years when the plant wasn't shut down yet. Well about 8 years before I would have had time to retire it closed. No warning.They were told its shutting down Friday on Wednesday. they knew before that but didn't want everyone quiting or posting out and not having staff to run it till it shut down. There were 75 people working there. They posted a list of 20 jobs all to far away to commute. 8 had time to retire and did. the twenty jobs were sucked up (and they weren't great jobs) immediately according to seniority. the rest of the crew got absolutely nothing. So looking back who made the intelligent choice. I ended up in a nice town with a job that eventualy paid much more then I was making there. Guys with the same seniority as me took jobs like janitors and larbores at sometimes half what they were making and forced to find money to move and move to places they didn't want to live. This is the kind of scenario I pray you don't fall into.. This kind of thing happens EVERY DAY.

There’s a lot more to the situation with this company than I want to go into on a public forum. It’s a huge multinational, and rock solid. My part of the company is going through big changes, and the other job is with the good part of the company that isn’t changing. The cuts we’re looking at are due to structural changes and only affect some people to a large degree. I’ve been assured that they’re working to fix it for those of us so affected, but I haven’t seen anything yet and frankly I don’t trust them because they’ve told us a lot of stuff that hasn’t been true. I’m taking a chance by staying.

I love my job where I am now. We have a great local team. My manager is as honest as the day is long, and a personal friend. The worst thing he could do to us is retire. I’m respected and have a lot of responsibility. I work four-tens, have a ten minute commute, LOTS of vacation time, and spend a lot of time with the family. In many ways life is very good. I know things could change here too, but giving up my 4-10 schedule and short commute factored into the decision.

[fatelk]

Thanks again, everyone. Whether we’ve agreed or not, I appreciate all the input. We had already made our decision but I have a tendency to second guess myself and stress about whether I made the right decision. This has helped. Time will tell.

[MT Gianni]

I live in rural Montana in a valley where kids can hunt, fish, do ranch roping and ride broncs and play sports at their leisure. Some familes have poor values and their kids are not worth a bullet. Brother is 1 1/2 hours north of San Francisco, his kids have turned out with great values and are well rounded adults. It isn't the where you are , but the how you do it. IMO, when the kids start driving the bus, ie; "we can't change" and the wife says "here is more important than us" things are on a steep downhill slope.

[GL49]

Move. The money will be better, you'll be working with someone you like, everyone will adjust and won't know the difference.

That being said, 23 years ago the money wasn't worth it to me, I chose to stay and not relocate my family, and have not regretted it. Not one single day. Not. One.
I'm living exactly where I WANT to live, the job has progressed from pretty doggone good to great, and I knew I could have left anytime I wanted.

Where do you want to be living 23 years from now?

[fatelk]

No offense, but I'm thinking you guys didn't read the thread.


IMO, when the kids start driving the bus, ie; "we can't change" and the wife says "here is more important than us" things are on a steep downhill slope.
I can't help but feel a little offended if this was directed at me.

[MaryB]

Family first PERIOD! Money isn't everything. And maybe look into better investments to boost that retirement. Let the kids know they should be saving money for college and working after school if old enough. Paying their own way is a great life lesson to many kids don't get these days and that is why so many have crushing debt. They think they can't do without the latest fad so put it on credit.

[GL49]

I hope my post didn't offend, it wasn't advice, just what I did in the same situation. Most of the upper management in my company pretty much have no choice whether they "want to be advanced", they go where they're told. I like where I live, and I'll do what I need to do to stay. It all comes down to where do you want to be? Where's the best place you could choose for your family? In my case, my kids didn't want to leave, neither did my wife, I'm glad they felt that way, otherwise I'd be the unhappy one.
Choose where you think you'd be the most content with your life, that's what I did, the rest is just fluff.

[fatelk]

No, nobody's offended me, at least I don't think so. I appreciate you all's thoughts. I'm not looking for any kind of consensus; we've made our decision.

I was talking to my sister on the phone a little while ago, and she said that she has a friend who recently moved away from where the job is. She said she's a helicopter paramedic, and had mentioned that the crime in that area is unbelievable and she was glad to get out.

Ultimately there are no guarantees anywhere. This job could end, that job could end. They could loose their contract in a few years and I'd be left hanging. I'd have a longer commute, but I think my chances of finding an acceptable replacement job are better here. Things will work out.

There were so many things to consider, calculate, and weigh out. The other job was an amazing opportunity; great pay, easy hours, working with a good friend who like to go out and target shoot in the desert... Ultimately I'm comfortable with staying here for now. It's what I want to do, it's what I feel is best for my family.

[jmort]

No offense, but I'm thinking you guys didn't read the thread.
I can't help but feel a little offended if this was directed at me.

0ne mans opinion which could be directed at anyone, like me, who strongly agree with your decision to put family first. You articulated a number of other factors which personally affect you. I love the 4 x 10 work week and weekly 3 day weekends. I had a 4 plus hour commute for a few years in stop and go traffic. That seriously punishes you physically and mentally. I was able to do a 4 x 10 week or less as I was self employed. When we relocated from California to the Ozarks my daughter was going into her sophomore year and she wanted to move. She just tested out of high school in her junior year and started college early. She hated high school. Regardless, the notion that a spouse's feelings, or children's feelings should be disregarded is foreign to me. My way or the highway does not makes sense to me. I actually could have just ordered my wife and children around as they recognized that by rights, Biblically, I was the head of the household. That others have different opinions does not matter to me.

[country gent]

All I can do is tell you what I did when the cuts and reductions started. After 18 years with the company I was reduced from the tool room to production work and a big pay cut and shift change. This wasn't going to be short term. I sent out resumes and looked around some. I had several offers that just didn't seem "right", but did have 1 that was closer and better wages and same basic benefits. Got another offer drive was much farther, 60 miles compared to 20 each way. Much better wages and benefits. Wife and I talked it over and I took the second offer and never looked back. We didn't move but I drove back and forth. Its amazing what all you can think thru on an hour drive. A very few winter days I did take a hotel room over risk the bad roads. We were much happier.

I wont try to tell you what to do or how all I can do is tell you what I did and why. Think it thru talk with the wife and family. Maybe send out some reumes and look at the local job market see what is available and in the area you want to be.

[fatelk]

All I can do is tell you what I did when the cuts and reductions started. After 18 years with the company I was reduced from the tool room to production work and a big pay cut and shift change.

What's going on here is very different, but I can't really get into it. I have enough training and experience that I have a lot of options. I have no doubt I could make better money if I wanted to commute an hour each way but the cost of commuting negates any extra income, and takes away from family time.

I've been there and done that. I've done all that and I'm kind of done with it. I've commuted 50 miles each way for years for a lesser job when I had to. I've gone back to school to get a degree for a better job. I've worked and gone to school at the same time. I've worked nights. I’ve survived cancer. I've picked up the whole family and moved for work because we had to, with three young kids and a tiny newborn, and a disabled wife needing surgery. I then spent every waking moment, weekends and days off for over a month, traveling hours each way to fix up our old house to sell. I'm not a weeping willow whining because my kids don't want to move. We've been through tough times and we're tired of it. We've found a place we like and we want to stay for a while. We like our house. We like our community. We like our church. I even like my job, my coworkers, and my short commute. I don't have the drive to climb that corporate ladder and make that six figure income, not at this point in my life. I just want to raise my family and enjoy life for a little while. It doesn't seem like that's too much to ask.

I'm going to pass up a great "career move" for that, take a chance and stay here for now. If it works out, great. If worse comes to worse, we'll figure it out and make it work. We have before.

[EDG]

In the end you will usually rationalize that you made the right decision but you never really know.
I do know that you can't make family decisions like a democracy.
I have had a wife and kids that didn't want to move because a favorite pet was buried in the backyard. You can't let such goofy logic determine your life.

[Lloyd Smale]

best answer here. Hind sight id change a lot of my life too. For one I would have never gotten out of the service after 8 years. Best job I ever had. Wasn't the best paying job but I loved what I did. About all a guy can do is make a decision and live with it.
In the end you will usually rationalize that you made the right decision but you never really know.
I do know that you can't make family decisions like a democracy.
I have had a wife and kids that didn't want to move because a favorite pet was buried in the backyard. You can't let such goofy logic determine your life.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

We've found a place we like and we want to stay for a while. We like our house. We like our community. We like our church. I even like my job, my coworkers, and my short commute. I don't have the drive to climb that corporate ladder and make that six figure income, not at this point in my life. I just want to raise my family and enjoy life for a little while.

This is all I would have needed to hear, to make the decision that you did.

[jmort]

^^^ Yes indeed

[David2011]

Don’t know if this is useful or not. I’m in a position that income has been removed from the equation. I retired last December and no kids to consider. All of my family save SWMBO and myself live close to each other. We live over 600 miles from the rest of the family. Houses that would accommodate our hobbies would be much less expensive if we buy 45 minutes to an hour away. Even on our retirement incomes we’ve decided that saving money on the house isn’t worth living an hour away from the family in metro Houston traffic. It wasn’t just distance to family that we considered though. The entertainment, grocery stores (we like nice grocery stores), medical services, proximity to Galveston Bay and other services, gun ranges and model airplane clubs all won us back to the area. I lived in the same area when I was young and we look forward to moving back.

[wv109323]

The kids will adjust quickly.
The wife will do the same but will take longer. Is the person you know there the social type to help your wife adjust. No one likes change but sometimes it is necessary.
The answer to the question would depend on medical insurance, and retirement benefits. Another consideration is family. Will your or her parents require assistance in the near future?
Very few people are involved in a crime if precautions are taken.
If your company does not fully appreciate your services now, they never will. They may even get rid of you for a cheaper employee without a thought.

[higgins]

The intangibles may outweigh the financial considerations in a family uprooting, but I don't think a lot of people delve deep enough into the balance sheet of a move. Things to consider in a move: cost of housing you would want to live in, in an area in which you would want to live; homeowners and auto insurance; property taxes (a big one); state income tax if you're moving out of state (another big one); other miscellaneous city and county taxes; cost of auto registration (yes, it can be a few hundred per vehicle instead of the $29/year I now pay). The list goes on.

[Harter66]

Do what you need to do .

10 weeks ago Ms and I had great jobs loved the people , the company was good for me Ms company was great for her . The little town was ok everything you could want was within 2 hours . For 2 yr we planned a move , with good prospects , to help with the homestead , heavy lifting etc . Well stuff didn't go according to plan . So here I am struggling with the job search and part of the major move reason has changed .

I'm an only child , responsibly for parents falls on me . That's why we moved . The schools are better and I'm sure it's going to work out .

[dverna]

Did not even read the rest of tge replies. I would move.

[kaiser]

Fatelk - I'm one of those that moved around for over 20 years (military requirement); one kid adapted well and the other, not so well. My wife and I looked forward to the moves when we were younger and because the move was paid for, we had an opportunity to buy housing in more rural settings (we both grew up in small towns). A lot of good points made about job opportunities, pay, and "upward mobility" (the American "dream"); and if your family is behind you in those endeavors you could have the "adventure" of your life, if not, you will hate and regret the move from that time forward. Money does not replace family or friends. Based on what information you've given about yourself, I agree with those on this post that you made the best decision for you (for what it is worth!). You will not be left out or left behind if your family is supporting you, and if the family situation changes (marriages, college, etc.) you can change your mode to a "traveling" one. Good luck in your pursuit of the "ultimate happiness"; it sounds like you are pretty close to it if it weren't for that darn company structure (I've dealt with that!).

[fatelk]

Thank you, I appreciate that.

As my wife and I have thought this through, done some research on the area, talked to a couple friends, and read you all’s comments, I’ve realized a couple things.

First, there really is no particularly right or wrong decision. Staying here, I think we’ll be happier, and I’ll probably worry about money more, but we’ll figure it out and we’ll be fine.

If we were to move, we’d probably adjust and be fine there too, worry about money less, and regrets about moving wouldn’t be the end of the world. I think we’d be fine either way. For various reasons we’ve chosen to stay.

The other thing I’ve realized is just how good we have it already, in many ways. Someone here said recently that if your only problems are money, you don’t have problems. As much I stress sometimes I really don’t have problems.

Every single one of us has big life decisions to make at times. I’ve learned that some people make their decisions on the fly with barely a thought, and others stall, worry, balk, and fuss so much that they barely can make a decision at all. I tend towards the latter end of the spectrum. I’ve missed some good opportunities but haven’t had any major screwups either.

One very last comment: a few people have read my original comments about my kids not wanting to move, and have perhaps assumed that my household is one where the kids rule the roost. That’s far from the case. My concern about my kids is not their feelings on moving (leaving their friends, etc), but on raising them right, and the better environment for them.

As to feelings, two of them are young enough that they’d get over it quickly, one would be fine I think, but the fourth is very sensitive and has some health issues. I have no doubt he would feel traumatized. I’d rather not traumatize him, but if the move was to an area that was more ideal for us, a better place to raise a family where they’d be better off in the long run, we would go, without a doubt.

[Wag]

I wish I had more time to respond but I'll go take care of some things and perhaps elaborate tomorrow or later today.

Basically, I think you've made the right decision. Money is tempting, but it's the least critical of all the factors in such a decision. The only time it becomes the highest priority is when it's non-existent. Family first.

The summer between my junior and senior year of high school, my father move me and my nine younger siblings halfway across the country. I never ever heard a rational reason for it. All of his explanations to me were selfish and geared toward making himself better in the eyes of his peers. And not very well thought out for the long run. What I remember more than anything, though, is that we ten kids suffered a lot because of his irrational decision.

I'll get into that a bit more later. Gotta run. Take comfort, though, in your decision and don't second guess yourself. Sometimes, a lot of little decisions will be easier to deal with and will create greater mental comfort than one giant decision that doesn't really eliminate the little decisions anyway.

EDIT: After re-reading this, it probably says enough. Hang in there!

--Wag--

[Outpost75]

Family comes first. Game over. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

[Idaho45guy]

I was in your position back in `04. Left an area and school my kids loved in search of greener grass.

I've regretted it ever since. My daughter fell into the wrong crowd and my wife ended up leaving me. Horrible, horrible decision that will haunt me the rest of my life.

[jmort]

But, I thought it did not matter as the kids flourish and the wife loves it when you move them. Seriously, I am truly sorry to hear this.

[nicholst55]

Having spent 20 years on active duty with the Army, several more years contracting overseas, and another ten as a DOD civilian, my view of the world is jaundiced. We're on my third assignment as a DOD civilian, second time overseas as a civilian. I've lived in 5 different countries and 8 different states. Moving. You'll survive it, and so will your family. Since they have nothing to compare their current home to, of course they view it as 'ideal.' Broaden their horizons. They'll make new friends and experience new things. The new job. The only thing that you can guarantee about it is that it WILL be different. You say that you know the folks you'd be working with and get along well. Hopefully that will hold true, but it probably won't be as easy/good as you anticipate. An old sergeant once told me that if there is a group of three people, at least one of them is a jerk. I do believe that he was correct!

I know that I didn't always like where I was or what I was doing, but it certainly did expose me to a lot of different people and cultures, along with different ideas. I feel that it has made me and my family into better people, with open minds. While there's certainly nothing wrong with spending your entire life within 50 miles of 'home,' there's nothing wrong with the alternative, either.

[fatelk]

Since they have nothing to compare their current home to, of course they view it as 'ideal.' Broaden their horizons.

Not true. We've moved before. My older kids still talk about how they wish we'd never had to move. We're tired of moving and we hate it (all of us, myself especially). We are already far from "home". We have the choice of continuing to making this home, or going on to live like nomads. Worse than nomads actually. True nomads take their whole community with them.

[Geezer in NH]

Talk and listen to YOU WIFE and not idiots on the internet.

[Big Tom]

Agree with Geezer - your life and you can ask 10 people and will get 20 different opinions. All that matters is that your family makes a decision you all can support and live with. In my experience, there will always be situations people will look back to thinking "oh, if I only had done x instead of y".... No certainty in life ;-)