How to use flat top punches

[megasupermagnum]

I've been trying these on and off for months now, and have yet to successfully use a flat top punch in my Lyman 450. They are the second quickest way to destroy a bullet, clearly not as foolproof as so many will have me believe. The whole idea is that the flat punch can self-center on a flat nose bullet, right? That is not happening for me, and it is sizing bullets crooked. With the proper top punch, they come out as perfect as I can tell. so it's not the press or die.

224250

I'm not sure if it's clear in this picture, but near the top, there is a bullet that you can see on one side the top band looks ok, but the other is washed almost completely off. I've tried making my own flat top punches, and the pictured bullets were with an Accurate molds flat top punch. I've tried polishing with 2000 grit sandpaper, and lubing with various oils. As soon as the bullet hits the sizing die, there is too much downward pressure on the nose for it to self-center. Again, with a fitted top punch that supports the nose, I do not notice this problem. I've tried with bullets with a nose as wide as .310", and as small as .18". No difference. I like the idea of a flat top punch, so how do you guys make them work?

[Grmps]

I thoroughly clean my top punches, squarely align the top punch and boolit, lightly lube the boolit tip, fill the punch with hot glue, squarely slide the 2 together getting an indent the gently withdraw the boolit. when the hot glue cools I carve off the excess. this also keeps punches from maring the boolit.

I also do this with my loading dies.

[megasupermagnum]

That's what I've done for bullets I couldn't buy top punches for, but I would really like to make flat tops work. Nearly all my bullets are flat points, besides a couple hollow points. It would be so nice to not have to mess with a top punch for every one. I have had good luck with flat bullet seaters. I can't measure any length variation since switching to them, even with hollow points, but seating a bullet is mostly supported by the die, and there is very little resistance from the brass. When sizing bullets, there is a considerable resistance, and I think it is keeping the bullet nose from sliding on the top punch.

[merlin101]

" When sizing bullets, there is a considerable resistance, and I think it is keeping the bullet nose from sliding on the top punch. "

How far down are you sizing them? Perhaps you should try sizing in two steps if you have a long way to go.

[Cherokee]

Flat punches only work for me in the Star sizer when sizing nose down. For the 45/450/4500 I always use fitted nose punches for the reason you are experiencing.

[Four-Sixty]

I had similar problems with a Lyman 45. I switched to a new Lyman 4500, and the problem went away. I don't know if the Lyman 45 was out of alignment, or the dies did not seat flush or what.

I did use the hard "Orange Magic" lube. I now use TacX which is soft at room temperature. Consider your technique, and try going very slow to see if you can observe movement of the boolit. You are putting a fair bit of load on it, so it may be moving under the load.

I also might suggest leaving the stem, in the sizing die, down as much as you can to give the boolit a head start and help with alignment.

[gwpercle]

Make sure the boolit is sitting in the die straight up . If it's tilted or leaning ....one side will get sized more until , that's when the washing happens. I use my thumb and forefinger to
1.) make sure the base is down into the die , all the way and sitting flat .
2.) slowly lower the ram onto the nose and using finger and thumb make sure the boolit nose is centered on the flat punch, if it feels off , turn (spin) the boolit in the die 180 degrees to get base fully down and the body straight up.
3.) once everything is lined up , staight and vertical...cycle the handle.

Remember crooked in = crooked out = bad boolit ...
straight in = straight out = good boolit..

I actually find a flat punch easier to use once you learn the alignment trick.
The 450 will not correct a boolit going into the die at anything but the very slightest tilt.

Gary

[megasupermagnum]

" When sizing bullets, there is a considerable resistance, and I think it is keeping the bullet nose from sliding on the top punch. "

How far down are you sizing them? Perhaps you should try sizing in two steps if you have a long way to go.

It varies, but most bullets are only .001"-.002" oversized. In this case, bullets cast about .3155" and I'm sizing to .314". Alloy is about wheel weight hardness, or a little softer. It's not that much force to size, but just enough that the nose of the bullet grips just about any surface.

I had a little better luck, and here is what I tried. I chucked the top punch in a drill, and ran it on a board with some very fine buffing compound. The surface is as mirror smooth as I can get it. I certainly try to start the bullets as straight as I can, but when .001" off is the difference between a good bullet and a ruined one, I'm not so good. After polishing the top punch, I still was only having 75% success or so, so I tried some greases. I found that thick bearing grease does the trick. I put a dab on, and it really slicks it up for about 15 bullets before it needs another dab. I was coming down as slow and careful as I could. It's just too much for so little. I'm going to stick with fitted punches for the Lyman, and keep an eye out for a Star.

[44Blam]

I started powder coating and now I really like the Lee push through dies...

[megasupermagnum]

I will never paint a bullet. I do like the lee push through dies though, and I may go to tumble lube for my high quantity bullets.

[Schreck5]

Why will you never paint a boolit? I used to say that, but then I tried it and really like it.

[reloader28]

I'm also with the majority and see no need to paint a boolit. With the numbers that I've read I can lube and size and be done in faster time

I've had great results with a flat top punch with pistol boolits but never tried a longer rifle boolit. That seems to me it would be kinda touchy.
For handgun boolits tho I usually run it down to just size the base, then up again to make sure its seated flat. Then it almost always goes in straight the second time

[megasupermagnum]

I asked about flat top punches. I'm glad you enjoy powder coat, or hi tec or whatever other coatings are out there. I've never coated them, but I've tried shooting coated bullets. They are not for me.

[Chad5005]

im with the pc and lee push thru,no mess no smoke,less gun cleaning

[megasupermagnum]

im with the pc and lee push thru,no mess no smoke,less gun cleaning

Must be some mighty special coating, as every one I shot smoked as much as a proper bullet lube, and stunk like tar.