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Nakihunter
07-20-2018, 01:58 AM
Hello and greetings from New Zealand.

I was advised to come here to learn about bullet casting.

My needs are specific and I want to keep it simple.

While I have been shooting centre fire rifles for 25+ years and reloading for as long, I am just starting casting.

I have just bought a 470 NE double rifle and want to shoot 400 gr cast bullets as practice loads - 2000 fps regulated for same POI as full powered 500 gr loads.

I have just melted wheel weights on a pot and poured out ingots in muffin trays and a mould. Total about 11.3 kg = about 25 lbs.

I am going to this tomorrow. I have a Lee bottom pour pot & an industrial thermometer.

I will keep the pot at around 600 F

Prep the Lee mold. Add 2 oz 50/50 solder for 5 lbs lead. Is this correct for a good mould fill or will the bullets be too soft?

Should I quench the bullets in water?

Should I heat treat the bullets in an oven?

I do not want to make it too complicated and spend money on it. I am not going to make huge numbers. I will not be casting for any other caliber. I do not shoot pistols.

I would appreciate any help. Thanks

Grmps
07-20-2018, 03:30 AM
You will want to take the pot temperature up to 700 -720°F

Water quenching wheel weights will get your BHN over 20. Are you sure you need to go that hard?

You didn't mention gas checks, sizing the boolits or what type of lubrication your using on the boolits

BTW, welcome to CB. If you decided to start casting to save money, forget it. You won't, you'll just shoot more.
Casting boolits (lead bullets) properly is a science, once you know the basics, not a hard science.
There is a lot of good information on CB. The Google search (top right of every forum page) is a gateway to all the knowledge on this forum. IF you can’t find your answer there ask the question (Please be as detailed as possible, pictures help http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?344661-Capturing-amp-Posting-screen-shots I would be very surprised if there wasn’t someone on this forum that could answer ANY (firearm related) question you might have)
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
1. Boolits need to be cast .0005 to .003 (normally .002) over the slugged diameter of your barrel for accuracy and to avoid leading. If the fit is wrong nothing else will work right.
a. slugging a barrel (it is safer to use a brass rod or a steel rod with a couple of coats of tape to avoid damaging your barrel http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm
b. chamber casting https://www.brownells.com/guntech/cerrosafe/detail.htm?lid=10614
or pound casting http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356251-Pound-Cast-instructions-(for-rifle-chamber)
2. the right alloy needs to be used for the velocity and purpose of the boolit (don’t fall into the trap of going with too hard an alloy
Economical way to easily test lead hardness
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?355056-Easier-pencil-lead-hardness-testing
https://i.imgur.com/TGUQsIe.jpg
Some alloys harden over time
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m
different alloy’s different end sizes
https://i.imgur.com/emuBC2T.png?1
Lead alloy calculator
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45784&d=1341560870
3. velocity the bullet needs to be pushed hard/fast enough to get the proper spin, have the proper velocity to accurately reach the target but not so hard as to be dangerous or strip the lead off in the grooves instead of spinning the boolit..
The boolit needs to be the right weight for the riffling/twist rate of your barrel
Powders range from fast to slow, you need to choose the right powder for your barrel length & application.
Loading manuals list the best powders for certain calibers and boolit weights.
NEVER use any posted noncommercial load data without first checking commercial load data to see if falls in the safe parameter for your firearm!! There are several firearms out there that can handle much higher pressures than others!!
Link to free online load data
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337910-CB-load-data-online-sources

Driver man
07-20-2018, 06:14 AM
You'll also want a good lube. Check out the stickys. What are you gonna be shooting in Taranaki with that cannon?

Rcmaveric
07-20-2018, 06:57 AM
Welcome brother from far away lands. You dont need supper hard bullets to hit 2000 fps. You can just water drop them drom the mold to experiment with if you feel you need it.

Now a days i use bullets of air cooled wheel weight at 12BHN. If the wheel weight cash gets low, i cut it with 8 BHN range scrap and that drops the BHN to 10 which still shoots like a champ. I am pushing these at about 2050 fps with MOA accuracy. They are gas checked bullets though in in the 6.5mm and 6.8mm flavors for rifle.

Dont be shy of slower velocities either. Match the load to the purpose and tune it till it provides acceptable results that are repeatable.

As far as lubes go, i have no experience with store bought. If you feel like playing with chemisty Bens Red is a great lube. Simple lube is also because its so easy to tweak to suite a purpose [i live in a hotter moist climate and adding some charnoba wax and/or parafin helps alot]. SL-68B can be complicated to make. But if you nail it then its awesome lube. All those lubes i have shot and they all work.

Hang tight and you will have a bunch of other chiming in with good advice. Or different opinions. Lol thats what makes this fun. Our goals are all the same but our approach is often differenr.

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dverna
07-20-2018, 08:46 AM
You do not sound like you will be shooting many cast bullets. For lube, you can pan lube or even finger lube if doing a few dozen at a time. (Cannot see shooting many more than ten at a sitting with that thing) The Lee sizer is cheap.

Gas checks are suggested for velocities over 1600 fps. A harder alloy will make things a bit easier. Yes it costs a bit more but unless shooting thousands of bullets the incremental cost is not something I worry about. I use a 92-2-6 alloy. Same alloy the commercial casters use.

GhostHawk
07-20-2018, 11:28 AM
I tend to do most of my shooting slower than your target.

The vast majority of my bullets are 50% clip on wheel weights, 50% soft lead, range scrap, etc. And 1-2% tin mostly for mold fill.

Over 1400-1500 fps you will want gas checks, or a card wad to protect the base.

Card wad can be as simple as finding a gasket punch of the right size and some thin uncorrigated cardboard.

As to water quenching, I would suggest trying a few, but those will be quite hard. Very possibly too hard.

"Add 2 oz 50/50 solder for 5 lbs lead. Is this correct for a good mould fill"

2 oz x 8 = 1 lb, or half a pound of tin. 5 lbs lead x 8 = 40 lbs.

I think your in the range where it should work well mold wise.

Tin is never first choice for hardening, as it takes 3 times as much to do the same as Antimony.
But, tin is awesome for getting good mold fill out, and nice shiny boolits.

The Wheel Weights have some antimony in there so you should be good.

Overall it seems to me like you should be set for a good go.

Watch out for the tinsel fairy. Never drop cold/damp into hot lead.

Keep your eyes open for Pewter at second hand stores. Being mostly tin it is a cheaper alternative to solder.

"470 NE double rifle" Man you are living the dream! So, we want pictures, lots of pictures, rifle, boolits, loaded rounds, targets. Lots of updates. Your going to be living this one for all of us who for one reason or another can not. So please share and share generously.

Yell if you get in trouble.
Enjoy the journey.

This may be a helpful read for you.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121324-Gas-Check-Alternatives-(Card-Wad-Lube-Wad-etc-)-for-PB-boolits-DO-THEY-WORK

243winxb
07-20-2018, 12:37 PM
Maximum heat to start casting. Pressure cast, spout in contact with mold.

Alloy will need oven heat treated bullets. Gas check the bullet. The 470 is rated at 41,000 PSI . Cast bullets don't work at this pressure level. I would add linotype instead of 50/50.

Slug the bore, size .001" larger. 400gr lead at 2000 fps with accuracy, i dont see it happening. All a guess. Good luck.

243winxb
07-20-2018, 12:46 PM
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?326686-470-Nitro-Express

Starting loads with 500 gr jacketed are in the 30,000 PSI range.

Springfield
07-20-2018, 01:18 PM
That's only about 425 bullets. Unless you are recovering your lead it sounds like you need more.

megasupermagnum
07-20-2018, 01:39 PM
Maximum heat to start casting. Pressure cast, spout in contact with mold.

Alloy will need oven heat treated bullets. Gas check the bullet. The 470 is rated at 41,000 PSI . Cast bullets don't work at this pressure level. I would add linotype instead of 50/50.

Slug the bore, size .001" larger. 400gr lead at 2000 fps with accuracy, i dont see it happening. All a guess. Good luck.

Rifles are not my thing, but I've had no problem getting accuracy at those pressures or velocities. I've shot plenty of 30-30 cast with a gas check with a max load of IMR 30-31. Accuracy was about 3" at 100 yards, and that is as well as I can shoot open sights. That's right around 2000 fps, and 40K psi. Alloy was air cooled lyman #5.

243winxb
07-20-2018, 01:48 PM
Key words from OP-
regulated for same POI . 2000 fps. Plain base bullet.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm May want to try some .

RogerDat
07-20-2018, 07:25 PM
Just when you thought it was safe to read this again....

Powder coating with baked on electrostatic paint allow one to increase velocity without "scuffing" lead in the rifling. Baked on PC or powder coat won't come off if you pound the bullet flat and is very slick surface. I use it with Lyman #2 lead alloy, gas checked, 70 grain bullet in .223 caliber running a case full of varget. Never used a crono on velocity but I expect it is around 2000 fps. I find little difference between these and store bought jacketed ammo of similar weight.

Nakihunter
07-20-2018, 09:44 PM
Wow. Thanks you guys.

I have a friend in the US who has shot a lot of double rifles and did a lot of research on the CEB bullets and much more. He advised me not to worry about sizing or gas checks as long as the bullets are cast with good mold fill out.

Yes I will be using Orange magic to pan lube the bullets.

Rifle is a 2006 VC so no worry about bore size. I will be careful with bullet specs.

I have some nice firm felt (about 15mm thick) and a 12mm wad punch so I I will lube those. I will use a card wad under the bullet to avoid the felt wad sticking to the lubed bullet base.

I also have some #4 shot that I removed to reload with Bismuth. I will put that in the pot too.

I tried to find info on powder coating. Not able to source the right material here in NZ.

Rifle should arrive next week.

224009 224010 224011

The felt 224012

224013224014

243winxb
07-20-2018, 10:46 PM
I have some nice firm felt (about 15mm thick) and a 12mm wad punch so I I will lube those. I will use a card wad under the bullet to avoid the felt wad sticking to the lubed bullet base.

Ever hear of a "Ringed barrel"?

Dusty Bannister
07-20-2018, 11:07 PM
"I have some nice firm felt (about 15mm thick) and a 12mm wad punch so I I will lube those. I will use a card wad under the bullet to avoid the felt wad sticking to the lubed bullet base."

I must not be understanding your powder selection or loading process. You are using a smokeless bullet lube. You are using a card wad under the bullet and a lubricated felt wad under the card wad which will expose the powder to the bullet lube? Any consideration to lube contamination of the powder? Are you using smokeless or Black Powder? Also see post #14 about a "ringed barrel".

Nakihunter
07-21-2018, 03:24 AM
243 Winxb - yes I have read about ringed barrels. I have Graeme Wrights book on shooting the English double rifle. Yes, I realise that some wad material can cause ringing. As long as the wad is slightly compressed between bullet and powder column, it should be fine. The theory is to move the wad column and bullet at the same time, as one unit and not have the wad stop under the bullet before moving further. I also have the Lyman cast bullet book.

Dusty, I will use only smokeless powder.

My friend said that I will need a card wad at both ends of the felt wad to a) prevent powder contamination from lube and b) to prevent the felt wad from sticking to the bullet base. He has actually pulled out wads from targets - still stuck to bullets - but they act like a rudder and shoot wild. The felt wad is only for cast bullets. I could also buy them from eBay but 470 cal is not easy to find in felt.

I will be using foam filler rod cut to 5/8 inch for filling air space with Re15 loads. This is also standard practice among a few guys i corresponded with.

Dusty Bannister
07-21-2018, 09:37 AM
Thank you for the reply. My concern would be that it appeared that you were trying to load smokeless powders in the same manner as Black Powder and being intent on filling all space in the cartridge with "something" might raise pressures dramatically. Generally best accuracy is found by loading the case to nearly fill or be lightly compressed with the powder selected and fillers are not necessary. By using fillers and wads, your 400 grain bullet is no longer at 400 grains because you need to add the weight of the added material. I have no experience with the cartridge you mention, but would follow the suggestions to use a reloading powder with an appropriate burn rate to nearly fill the case and avoid wads and fillers all together.

I think you have already decided that you are going to make the gun shoot what you think you want it to, and not follow the more reliable method of letting the rifle tell you what it wants to shoot best. You have chosen a more difficult path and I wish you luck and stay safe in your quest. Dusty

Rcmaveric
07-21-2018, 03:24 PM
Yes, it does apear you are attempting to shoot smokeless powder like black powder.

Loose the felt, cards and grease cookies. Thats to keep the fouling soft and help with accurracy in black powder. Then only use the filler if the gun tells you it needs it. There are lots of powderd available that give good case fill or are not position sensitive.

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Nakihunter
07-21-2018, 05:58 PM
Dusty

My habit in life when preparing for something is to get deep in analysis to the point of being obsessive & even over thinking.

That said, my goals are Simple, Realistic and focused.

1. I want the rifle to shoot to POA - well regulated with standard loads
2. I want some lighter practice loads also regulated
3. I want some cast loads to reduce costs by $2.50 per shot - $5 for left & right - also regulated
4. I do not want leading in the barrels
5. I want to avoid a long and tedious rout to the solution

Now what i have done so far is to read a LOT, ask many friends who actually load for 470NE and other doubles with cast bullets. etc.

My plan with wads is based on their experience.

I am still learning

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated




Thank you for the reply. My concern would be that it appeared that you were trying to load smokeless powders in the same manner as Black Powder and being intent on filling all space in the cartridge with "something" might raise pressures dramatically. Generally best accuracy is found by loading the case to nearly fill or be lightly compressed with the powder selected and fillers are not necessary. By using fillers and wads, your 400 grain bullet is no longer at 400 grains because you need to add the weight of the added material. I have no experience with the cartridge you mention, but would follow the suggestions to use a reloading powder with an appropriate burn rate to nearly fill the case and avoid wads and fillers all together.

I think you have already decided that you are going to make the gun shoot what you think you want it to, and not follow the more reliable method of letting the rifle tell you what it wants to shoot best. You have chosen a more difficult path and I wish you luck and stay safe in your quest. Dusty

Tripplebeards
07-21-2018, 06:13 PM
You can always powder coat and gas check a softer alloy. That's what I do.

Nakihunter
07-21-2018, 08:26 PM
Ok here are some conclusions I have made but happy to reconsider and get it right. Hence my posting here and asking for advise.

1. I am not able to find appropriate powder coating material here in NZ. Not even sure if "powder coating" is the right term for the dry powder tumbling and baking process on Youtube. Is that Polymer coating? I might just buy the Missouri bullets 340 gr from reloading international if I need to do that - box of 300 costs about US$54 and then I need to pay $90 for export & freight. Still worth it I guess. Hornady pistol jacketed 400 gr bullets cost US$60 per 50 pieces here.
2. I want low recoil ammo. I shot a 470 NE Chapuis once that did not fit me and it really hammered my face. I had a really sore cheek bone for 2 weeks. On the other hand a 600 NE Jeffery full house load of 900 gr at 1850fps pushed me back half a step. I shot my 416 Rigby ok with 400 gr bullets at 2550 fps but found the recoil quite heavy. But I shot the same combination at 2400 fps really well. I found a BIG change in felt recoil and rifle control, particularly off hand rapid fire.
3. Therefore I plan to load Re15 - well established loads - 85gr to 87 gr is what is most commonly suggested as regulating loads. The 75% rule is what the 400 gr cast or pistol bullets give me for regulated loads at lower recoil. Federal ammo is 87 gr Re15 without filler but using 216F primer which are hotter and not available to reloaders.
4. So I plan to use foam backing rod for jacketted bullets with Re15 & F215 primers as many people do. Some do not bother with fillers and others use dacron. (See earlier comment on barrel ringing).
4. My goal is to achieve that without barrel leading. 3 conclusions
(a) Hard cast - wheel weight + 50/50 solder and water quench
(b) Felt wad lubricated to minimise leading (Will foam backer rod filler work for cast bullets?)
(c) Card wad to prevent felt from sticking to base of bullet and throwing the shots wild and also to prevent powder contamination by the lube

This is the theoretical conclusions I have come to so far, even before casting a single bullet or firing a shot. Heck, even before seeing the rifle and holding it in my hands! :Fire::shock::bigsmyl2: I think this kind of research and analysis minimises time and effort in achieving my objectives. I hope I am starting with correct assumptions for fine tuning.

Any challenges, criticisms and corrections are welcome.

Rcmaveric
07-21-2018, 08:45 PM
I have seen and heard of the foam backer rods used as filler. I have never tried it. I personally try to avoid fillers.

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Nakihunter
07-23-2018, 02:43 AM
I did my first cast in my life. Thrilled with the outcome.

I used about 4 kgs of the ingots I made up last week and added on rod of 50/50 solder which was 208 grams. So about 2.5% tin added.

I did it in 2 lots and finished with about 500 grams lead in the pot. I stopped as the flow from the bottom was slow and I was concerned that the bullets may be cooling down and quality may not be consistent.

I might have got the temperature a bit hot as the thermometer started going above 500C

Water quenched.

The very first bullet I air cooled on a towel and it looked great. A bit dull but sharp edges. Threw it back in the pot and started water quenching. Now i can see how bad the other bullets were that I got off a supposed custom supplier!

As you can see - the bullets average 392.7 gr ranged from 395.8 to 389 gr. Variance for sample of 20 was 6.8 gr. Sizes varied from 0.477 to some bands going as low as 0.472. No bullet base was less than 0.475.

224158224159224160
224161

Hardcast416taylor
07-23-2018, 03:14 AM
You make no mention of fluxing the molten lead either before casting or when the wheel weights were initally smelted down. This is a step to remove any dirt and other impurities from the alloy being cast. The casting temp as has already been stated should be running at or about 700 degrees Farenheit not Centigrade. Another question is, have you ever reloaded cartridges before? My estimation on you aims of what you desire the rifle to perform at is a comparision of an complete novice attempting to fly an airplane. Get help from other casters and shooters before a possible accident happens from an attempt to run before you have learned to walk. For what that beautiful double cost it would be a shame to make a wall hanger of it by damage.Robert

Rcmaveric
07-23-2018, 04:39 AM
500 C is really kind of high. Should be more along the lines of 400 C. You really shouldnt have a need to go over 480 C. Nice first cast. You got the mold a little too hot. It cause some craters on the bullet bases. Let the sprue cool a bit longer or use a fan and damp spunge to cool the mold. You want good perfect bases because thats whats gonna give you accuracy.

You really shouldnt need any of the felts, cork, or foam. Fit is king and good fitting bullet wont lead when fired at velocities and pressures within its limits. If you are that worried about leading that you are wiling to risk damaging your gun, then why not just use a gas check? Those guns arent cheap.

If i were you. I would use the search function and read what the other guys on this site did. I wouldnt use a filler unless i have tuned the best i possibly can and wanted to see if that improved consistency and possibly milk that last little bit of accuracy. For a filler i prefer dacron (sacrifice an old pillow). Normally the accuracy i gained wasnt worth the danger.

I used the search function and read several threads were guys got their guns easily regulating. They didnt mention fillers.

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Nakihunter
07-23-2018, 06:31 PM
You make no mention of fluxing the molten lead either before casting or when the wheel weights were initally smelted down. This is a step to remove any dirt and other impurities from the alloy being cast. The casting temp as has already been stated should be running at or about 700 degrees Farenheit not Centigrade. Another question is, have you ever reloaded cartridges before? My estimation on you aims of what you desire the rifle to perform at is a comparision of an complete novice attempting to fly an airplane. Get help from other casters and shooters before a possible accident happens from an attempt to run before you have learned to walk. For what that beautiful double cost it would be a shame to make a wall hanger of it by damage.Robert

You are right in that I am new to casting, as already stated.

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

I have been reloading centre fire rifle ammo with jacketed bullet for over 25 years.

With regard to flux, we used paraffin candle wax while melting the wheel weights and skimmed off all the rubbish.

Then I used a small bit (0.5+ inch) of the same when doing the casting - just to make sure all the rubbish was out and as advised by the various books and posts to flux again and to keep scraping the pot sides and bottom.

I am probably trying to fly as you put it, but by holding on to someone who is already soaring ! :D

The goals are realistic as they are being achieved by many. Nothing special or spectacular.

I hear the questions about fillers. For me it is a trade off between comfortable control of the rifle (read recoil sensitivity) and risks with filler. My experience with the 416 Rigby is the point of reference. I was comfortable with 400 gr bullets at 2400 fps using H4350 (AR 2209) and rapid fire at 50 meters giving 4 inch groups of 5 shots. The same combination loaded to 2550 fps was not so good & hence I loaded down closer to original Rigby spec.

With the 470 NE, using 400 gr bullets at 2000 fps and 87gr Re15 (the VC is also 1 lbs heavier) should give me less felt recoil compared to the 416 Rigby

RogerDat
07-23-2018, 07:13 PM
Powder coat is a polymer paint but the variety you want is "electrostatic paint" Here is a Google search link to suppliers in New Zealand

https://www.google.com/search?ei=FV1WW4uuM-LdjwSE_LLwAQ&q=new+zealand+suppliers+of+electrostatic+paints&oq=new+zealand+suppliers+of+electrostatic+paints&gs_l=psy-ab.3...6505.11634.0.12103.20.20.0.0.0.0.99.1425.20 .20.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.kTrxGJ8gIlw

Paint sticks due to static charge differential between dry powdered paint and object being painted. The powder covered object is then baked to melt the powder into a solid coat covering the object. So you are looking for electrostatic paint that requires baking to apply. They sell application "sprayers" with a charged tip and a ground wire for the item being painted. Bullets are typically coated on metal baking sheet with ground wire from sprayer attached. Then baked in a counter top toaster oven by using tweezers or fine needle nose pliers to place them point up on non-stick aluminum foil.

Some of us will use black plastic air soft bb's inside a number 5 plastic bowl with a lid to shake the powder, bullets, and plastic bb's to coat the bullets. Hence the name "shake and bake". Plastic bb's and bowl will create a static charge in the metal bullet and powder paint.

You might check out the member smoke432 he sells the bags of powder and the bb's and all his powders are tested with the shake and bake method. I think he typically sells 1# which will do a huge number of bullets. The excess powder stays in the bowl with shake and bake so there is little loss. Smoke used to sell sample packs of 3 or 4 colors which can be nice. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?205-Smoke-4320-s-Corner

No idea what shipping is like but he could probably provide better information on the actual product or maybe ship in a quantity that stays reasonable. Has the bb's too.

Nakihunter
07-26-2018, 12:46 AM
I ordered the NOE bushing size dies today.

The Powder coat material sample arrived today - Black. I'll try powder coating next week.

I went to a tyre shop and the guy is a keen diver and fisherman and so he uses all the wheel weights. So I went to the scrap dealer and bought 22 kg building roof lead and swapped with the tyre guy for a big bucket full of wheel weights. I think I got 10 kg more!

Green Frog
07-26-2018, 08:32 AM
I ordered the NOE bushing size dies today.

The Powder coat material sample arrived today - Black. I'll try powder coating next week.

I went to a tyre shop and the guy is a keen diver and fisherman and so he uses all the wheel weights. So I went to the scrap dealer and bought 22 kg building roof lead and swapped with the tyre guy for a big bucket full of wheel weights. I think I got 10 kg more!

That roofing lead is also getting hard to find around here! I use it for muzzle loaders and when I make precise alloys from pure metals for my cast bullet bench rest efforts. BTW, have you asked around about Linotype down there? My sources for that have about dried up here, but boy howdy, that makes good alloy for hard bullets! I’m a diver too, but you only use so much weight for diving... maybe your tire guy will eventually finish filling out his needs (unless he has a side hustle selling to HIS dive buddies.)

Froggie

Nakihunter
07-26-2018, 05:58 PM
What is the source of antimony based lead apart from Linotype 11% and Clipped on wheel weight 4%?

There are is well known company here in NZ which sells lead alloys in bulk but minimum order is 450 kgs! That is almost 16,000 bullets for my 470 NE!

Rcmaveric
07-26-2018, 07:15 PM
Range scraps will also have a 1 to 2% antimony. That's what i use to cut my Clip on Wheel weights (50/50 for rifle). Range scraps by it's self makes fine pistol bullets. Reclaimed shot has a lot of antimony in it as well. Pretty high a amount if it is chilled shot 6%, i think. Do not quote me as i am shooting from the hip. A side from those, ordering hardball alloy is all i can name.

I honestly cant tell you what is in my alloy. I do know the BHN's though and can mix and match to create what ever i desire.

Echo
07-29-2018, 02:01 PM
Prep the Lee mold. Add 2 oz 50/50 solder for 5 lbs lead. Is this correct for a good mould fill or will the bullets be too soft?



I want at least 2% in my alloy, so I would probably add 3-4 oz 50/50 to get 1.5/2 oz Sn for 1.8/2.5% Sn in the alloy.

Nakihunter
10-27-2018, 08:57 PM
Back here after a while.

I got the rifle in hand after last post above. Shot it first on 3rd Aug. I have been shooting it quite regularly - 10 to 20 shots at a time with a friend on his farm. He made up a standing rest for better control

I have now got the rifle regulated with jacketed bullets - 500 gr Woodleigh softs, 500 gr Hornady DGX Bonded & 500 gr Hornady DGS Solids. The left & right barrel target now overlay for a reasonable 2 inch group with 3+3 shots.

The lead cast bullets 400gr with card & felt lubed wads are not shooting too well.

I got some powder coating material from the local Rep of the company - free samples. Very happy with result - baked in an oven. I had to do 2 runs. Shoots much better than the lubed bullets. Far less messy. Just using backer rod as filler cut to compress powder.

I also imported some 340 gr cast bullets from Missouri Bullet Company but made the mistake of not selecting the PC design! They are lubed bullets and now I have to use lubed wads & card!

One question - If I am using smokeless powder like Varget with lubed bullets - DO I NEED to use lubed felt wad or can I just use a card and backer rod filler like I do with jacketed bullets?

44Blam
10-28-2018, 12:10 AM
I shoot 400 grn boolits from my 45-70 at about 1800 fps and that is enough for me.
That ends up being about 3000 foot pounds of energy going down range...
I gas check those booits and I also powder coat them. I think you can get some from Smoke and you just need a #5 plastic bowl and airsoft bbs... Just tumble them and bake them in a $10 toaster oven. :)

500 grn @ 2200 fps is almost 5400 foot pounds of energy. That is gonna hurt on both ends, I'm thinking.

Source:
http://www.ballistics101.com/muzzle_energy_calc.php

Rcmaveric
10-28-2018, 01:07 AM
Have you tried shooting them without the cards, wads and fillers? No you dont really need them. If the powder isnt position sensitive then you dont need a filler. Go with a bulkier powder or one designed for reduced loads.

You can take those lubed bulletz and clean the lube off of them. Then clean residue off. Then PC them.

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waksupi
10-28-2018, 12:21 PM
I think your biggest problem will be trying to get your regulated barrels to shoot the 400 gr. bullets to shoot to the same point of impact as the 500 gr. How does it do with factory loading with the lighter bullets? That may be a telling test to attempt to see if the barrel twist will be capable of what you ask of the rifle.
I have a friend who was trying to get a new Sharps shooting well with 405 gr. bullets, and they were all over the target. I gave him some of my 550 gr. loads that the rifle was built for, and the group went down to under 2 inches at 100 yards.

Nakihunter
10-28-2018, 04:13 PM
Being a double, they have their own unique attributes to regulation & reloading as per Graeme Wright's book on shooting the British Double rifle.

The 75% rule works with 400 gr bullets. I get around 2000 fps and pretty close to bull with Varget - so recoil is much less with 100 gr less bullet weight & 30 gr less powder. Same with jacketed pistol bullets.

My question is if I can use foam backing rod instead of lubed felt wad.

I do not want the base of the cast bullet to melt and lead the barrels. There is about 1 inch gap between powder and base of bullet when I use reduced loads with lighter bullet and faster burning powder.

I also do not want to "ring" the chamber by using inappropriate fillers. A ringed chamber will just ruin a $10,000 double rifle.

Rcmaveric
10-28-2018, 04:39 PM
Fillers arent to protect the bases of the bullet from melting. That wont happen and not what causes leading. The pressures will deform the bases and there is a chance the filler can smack into the base of the bullet which is really bad. If that is your fear then use a gas checked bullet.

You do not need to use the greased felt wads with smokless powder. You can use the backer rod without it.

Fillers primary purpose is to create uniform ignition with powders that are position sensitive. An inch of free space isnt that big of deal as long as it has consistent ignition.

Experiment, try and see what happens.

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Nakihunter
10-28-2018, 07:37 PM
Thanks for that.

I have got similar advise from 2 others.

I am very careful not to allow any space between filler and bullet base. I ALWAYS make sure I compress the foam filler by 6 mm.



Fillers arent to protect the bases of the bullet from melting. That wont happen and not what causes leading. The pressures will deform the bases and there is a chance the filler can smack into the base of the bullet which is really bad. If that is your fear then use a gas checked bullet.

You do not need to use the greased felt wads with smokless powder. You can use the backer rod without it.

Fillers primary purpose is to create uniform ignition with powders that are position sensitive. An inch of free space isnt that big of deal as long as it has consistent ignition.

Experiment, try and see what happens.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

sw282
10-29-2018, 06:29 AM
Hi. l have a NZ buddy l corresponded with. He lives in Blenheim, NSW. A train driver 'engineer' at work. A SASS shooter at play.. Welcome Naki.

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popper
10-29-2018, 01:36 PM
Lube groove boolits will work fine with PC. Heat treat by cooking for 1 hr in the oven, then immediately into ice water. Dacron as a filler does position the powder but is there to cushion the base. I've seen pictures of cast with dents in the base from stick (varget type) powder.

Nakihunter
10-29-2018, 06:21 PM
Thanks mate. Much appreciated. NSW is Australia, 2000 miles away. We also have a Blenheim in the South Island.




Hi. l have a NZ buddy l corresponded with. He lives in Blenheim, NSW. A train driver 'engineer' at work. A SASS shooter at play..


Welcome Naki.

282

GregLaROCHE
10-29-2018, 07:30 PM
You’ve been getting a lot of good advice. I am new to casting too, but have been doing it for over a year. The old saying « The more you learn. The more you realize how much more there is to learn. » is so true in this case. Also, you will want to buy more and more equipment. Much more than you originally thought!

Good luck !

EDG
10-29-2018, 08:13 PM
I would prefer to learn cast bullets with a less expensive tool.