a hard life lesson...and i thank GOD for it.

[mozeppa]

when i was 7 or 8 years old and was molding my mindset on the direction my life would take,
i got a hard lesson.

somehow by watching what my cousins would do, i got it into my head that "if i didn't have
one of those (whatever "those" were.) ...that i'd just steal one," ... then i would have one.

we had show and tell at my school one day. for me it was a balsa model airplane i made.
really it was ****. mostly it was 2 wings ,a tail and a fuselage crudely glued together the night before.

but during the show and tell part of the day...a kid had a display box of 4 indian artifact stone points ...arrows i assumed at the time. i thought they were cool.

later that day by coincidence i missed the bus home, so i went back to my home room to tell my teacher, but she wasn't there ...or so i thought.

i saw the arrow heads there and quickly pocketed them.
only the teacher who was in the closet SAW ME ....but she kept quiet and stayed hid.

after i left for the long walk home, she called my mom and informed her of the theft.

after i got home i announced to mom..."hey mom, look what found at school!" (i didn't lie.)

she said ..."yup! and i know EXACTLY WHERE YOU FOUND THEM!...you stole them from billy barns!....now get over here!"

she beat my hind end raw!.... and now i was grounded for life!...just wait til dad gets home!

6 months of time lapsed in the next 2 hours when i heard him come home.
the anxiety was unbearable. all was quiet for the time it took for mom to lay it out for him.

my bedroom door nearly flew out of the frame. in comes dad madder than i had ever seen
anybody....with belt in hand.
i got the striping of a lifetime!.....dang!...2 whoopin's in one day!

i was to go to school...arrive home go to my room til dinner...eat and go back to my room
til bath & bedtime. for 3 months. no friends, no playtime, no t.v.
no cell phones or internet (well they wern't invented back in the dark ages.) so i felt like a monk in seclusion.

what a way to start december....*sigh*.

the next day i had to wait down at the bus stop in a group of 5 or 6 other kids.
also at our stop was a new telephone pole that was put in on the day of my theft.

where they back filled the pole and packed dirt around the base was a fresh layer of mud.
and the mud was rained on during the night and it got really cold, freezing cold.

and a few inches from the base of the pole, frozen in the mud was 3" arrow head ....white flint surrounded perfectly by brown mud.

and i took my house key and pried on the flint , and it popped out leaving a hole in the mud in the exact shape of the arrow head.

i yelled out "i found an arrow head!...naturally every one wanted to see it... they did.

i put it in my pocket not even thinking about what had transpired the day before.

when i got home i showed my mom and said "found it at the bus stop this morning."
she said....:" i guess you are a hard head that just won't learn!"

my hiney was still sore from the day before ....but now with belt whoopin i was gettin' today, things back there kinda took on a certain glow in a uncomfortable way.

i was puzzled as to why she didn't believe me. (took years to figure that one out.)
back to my room i went.

and the wait for dad....and thinking what could i stuff down the back of my pants to absorb some of the punishment that was on the way home.

didn't know what to do...i just kept proclaiming my innocence! (to no avail.)

dad got home and when i saw the anger in his face ready to explode...my mouth flew
open and i said "i didn't steal it!...and i can prove it!."

dad hesitated....and said "you better be able to!"

when i told him about the arrow shaped frozen mud at the phone pole. he said bring the
arrow head and get in the car.

he personally plugged it back into the mud socket from where it came.
he said "looks like you really did find one".

told mom as much....she felt bad about the 2nd whoopin' but she never admitted to feeling bad til i was an adult.

i stayed grounded for the duration but was allowed in our yard only.
and we didn't have grass yet as the house was a newly built house and we didn't grow any yet...(not sure if they had sod back then...if so, we couldn't afford it anyways.

so while i couldn't leave the yard i did get to search it and i found 3 more arrow heads on
our own property!

i have never even stolen anything ever since... as i'm sure dad will rise from his grave
and give me a whoopin' never before heard of in the HERE or the HEREAFTER!

[nagantguy]

Thank you for sharing that! Had a similar experience when I was younger than you were ,I was 4 or 5 ; I also have never stolen anything ever again!

[bosterr]

Well... the second whooping was for something you did that they didn't find out about.

My mother quit hitting my brother and I when we got a bit bigger and took the blows better. My Dad's favorite was the belt as well. It seemed the belt was for things a normal kid would do such as play in the "crick" and come home covered in dirt. Confined to the yard a month, 2 months or the entire summer vacation, I remember them all. We never laid a hand on our 3 boys. A stern look or a raised voice is all we did.

[Ickisrulz]

I stole a super ball from my cousin when I was about 10. My parents discovered the theft and made me call my aunt and apologize. That phone call was brutal. I was tearful, embarrassed and humiliated. No beatings were administered. I never stole another thing.

I don't think corporal punishment is needed or appropriate once a child reaches a certain age. Probably not much past 7.

[RU shooter]

Well... the second whooping was for something you did that they didn't find out about.

My mother quit hitting my brother and I when we got a bit bigger and took the blows better. My Dad's favorite was the belt as well. It seemed the belt was for things a normal kid would do such as play in the "crick" and come home covered in dirt. Confined to the yard a month, 2 months or the entire summer vacation, I remember them all. We never laid a hand on our 3 boys. A stern look or a raised voice is all we did.
Can tell your from western Pa. "crick" lol
Same here as a kid dads weapon of choice was also the belt. I swear he could unbuckle and have that thing swingin in half a second ! One thing I can say though I never got an abusive whoopin or one I didn't deserve . Moms choice was usually a big wooden spoon or spatula it was small but stung like the devil guess she got some velocity in her swing ! Lol

[fatelk]

I was in fourth grade when I stole some small supplies from the art room at school. They were really cool and I wanted them so I snuck in and took them. They sat hidden in my room all weekend, silently mocking me and calling me a thief. My parents never found out because I snuck them back into the art room as quick as I could Monday morning.

A few years later I was in a variety store with another kid I knew, and he proudly showed me a small toy he said he was going to shoplift. I couldn’t believe anyone would be proud of that and I made such a fuss that he quickly put it back. I don’t recall that he ever hung out with me ever again.

As to spanking, my mom would spank hard with a belt or spoon, but if we ever got disciplined by my dad we knew to pretend that it hurt. His spanking didn’t hurt, but his yelling sure did. He yelled a lot, and I think I’d rather have a beating. To this day I can’t stand yelling, and when I catch myself raising my voice at my kids, I take a deep breath and calm down.

[RED BEAR]

oh i was real lucky my dad made the paddles for all the schools in our area so there was the exact same thing waiting for me at home i just got at school. he was really good at making those paddles.

[Big Tom]

While I don't think a spanking is completely off the table, I disrespect and disagree with using any tools for it (and especially not realizing when enough is enough). Seeing red finger marks on the butt should be more than enough as a message (if really needed at all).

I used to get beaten up by my dad (wooden cooking spoons, coat hangers and the like) until I was old enough to strike back. When he got a bloody nose, it was the last time he tried it. He's dead now, did not see him the last 10 years of his life, did not go to his funeral and don't feel bad about that.

I did not want my kids to ever look at me the same way and when I raised them, never hit them. There were plenty of other means that, looking at their ways of going through their adult life now, seemed to have been just right.

Bottom line - a well deserved a..whooping will not break the kids and may be reasonable for some parents, it just isn't my style of showing them what's right and what's wrong...

[fatelk]

Big Tom, I see it a lot like you do. One of the things I can't stand is to hear some so-called expert say that spanking your child will turn him/her/it into a serial killer or something. What upsets me about that is they they don't differentiate between a swat and a beating.

I don't hit my kids. I will never hit my kids, especially in anger. They have, however, gotten a swat on occasion, just to get their attention. Not a beating, not an injury, not even real pain; just a swat to get their focus and attention, typically followed by a talk about right and wrong, and a hug. My late mother in law once saw my wife spank our oldest when she was little. She laughed and said "That's not a spanking; that's a love pat".

Yeah, I think there's a place for judicious, gentle, corporal punishment when used sparingly. I also think there's better ways most of the time, and all kids are different. One of mine is so stubborn that spankings don't really have an effect on him. Another is so gentle and kind-hearted that the mere though of a swat would bring tears. Corporal punishment for either of them is extremely rare to nonexistent. Actually, spankings for any of them are very rare. Somehow we've ended up with some thoughtful, caring, honest kids. At least so far, and as good as kids can be. They all have their moments, as any parent knows...

Heck, I don't know; I'm no expert. I think it's wrong to beat your kids, but it also sure irritates me to hear some self-righteous "expert" somewhere equate any spanking with child abuse. That's just my two cents, and I don't claim to know much. :)

[fatelk]

I did not want my kids to ever look at me the same way and when I raised them, never hit them.

That's much the same with myself and not yelling at my kids or tearing them down. It had an effect on me such that I don't want anyone else to experience it. One day I was really on my oldest son's case about something. I was starting a good lecture about something he did or didn't do for the thousandth time (as 10-12 year old boys will). Partway through my frustrated rant I noticed his little face fall like I was crushing his spirit.

Though I wasn't yelling, I was still doing just what my dad had done to me a thousand time. I stopped, gave him a hug, apologized to him for getting carried away, and we talked about it for a while. I told him it's my job as a dad to raise him to be a good man, but I wouldn't crush him again like that. He really is a great kid and we have an excellent relationship.

[Big Boomer]

If you want to read about a young man whose character was formed as early as the age of 17, read about Joseph in Genesis chapter 37 and following. However, most of us run into those "bumps" in the road that teach us some of the hard lessons of life like honesty and truth that we do not learn overnight. Recently I made the statement in a men's Sunday School class that Joseph's character was formed by the age of 17. I'm 78 and still having to keep watch over my character. Life is tough, but it's tougher if we're practicing stupidity. As fatelk related, it is important that we correct our children and grandchildren in the right manner. Big Boomer

[smokeywolf]

Some parents teach their kids what to do or what needs to be done to be a good parent. Then, there are parents like mine. I learned more of what not to do as a parent, from them. I got spanked quite a bit, mostly by Mom until I was about 3. Pretty sure I deserved most, if not all of it.
Dad started making up for lost time when I was about 9. Problem was, I got slapped around if Dad had a really bad day at work. He completely lost it when I was 13 and threw me through a plate glass window. That scared him enough that he never touched me again.
On the plus side, I'm certain that I've been a better parent because of what I endured.

[9.3X62AL]

I had an incident similar in nature to the O/P's experience that schooled me on thievery succinctly at age 9. The first and ONLY time I stole anything from anyone, and to this day I thank that good old service station owner for imparting a kind but penetrating lesson in right vs. wrong.

I very seldom spanked my daughters, because I had it done to me gratuitously growing up--usually on account of the punisher's intoxication. In my senior year of high school, not long before graduation another of these events took place--and it became the last time that SOB ever hit me or anyone else in the family again. I came very close to killing him, and just writing this now causes a wave of revulsion to wash over me, it always has when I think of it. Two things saved his drunken, worthless life--1) my Mom telling me that I would never become a law officer if I finished him, and 2) finally seeing true, raw fear in the eyes of this vicious bar room bully and knowing that my actions produced it. Simultaneous deep satisfaction and profound revulsion at the same time, it is difficult to put into words. I am not proud of some of the things I told that SOB and my Mom as he laid on the floor, unable to move without considerable pain--I feel badly to this day for scaring my Mom so much. But beating his sorry *** had the desired effect--he didn't hit me, my sisters, or my Mom any more. He was still mean as hell when he drank, but he remained scared of me--even when sober. I have never quite reconciled the over/under of the behavioral paradigm that resulted, but at least we weren't getting knocked around any more. Net gain, I guess. The upshot of all this--I preferred to prompt good behavior from our girls through love and respect, and it largely worked out all right. With a few folks, fear--loathing--and a desire to avoid injury has to be wielded to elicit compliance. Not often, thankfully.

[MrWolf]

Used to get nightmares from the way my father treated me. Till I got older and had enough and blasted back ready to kill him. He knew it too. Stopped having nightmares after that. Never hit my kids. They learned the one finger, two finger, and never got to three to find out what would happen. I broke the chains and brought my kids up the way I would have loved to have been brought up. My kids are great, respectful, and I am so proud of them.

[snowwolfe]

Did you ever ask your teacher why she was hiding in the closet when the classroom was empty?

[mozeppa]

Did you ever ask your teacher why she was hiding in the closet when the classroom was empty?she wasn't hiding....i suppose she was putting stuff away quietly and i didn't notice her...when she noticed me it was then she got quiet just to see what i was up to. i guess she figured that she'd alert my mom and let her deal with it.

as a side note i never hated my dad even tho he could be a mean drunk. i could not count the times he challenged me to a fight in the back yard.

and i always said no. the last time he ever challenged me i said that i hated it when he'd challenged me because i did respect him.

i added this as well ....that if i ever lost that respect and ever decided to take up that challenge and should i ever do hit him that he would just go down like a sack of taters. and i never blinked saying it.

he never challenged me ever again.

[castalott]

My dad, a burly WW2 vet, told me if I got in a fight at school, I would be in another one when I got home. Quite a thing to tell a grade schooler. But he was good to me most of the time and he just didn't want me to get in trouble. He has been gone 38 years and I still miss him...

[RED BEAR]

big tom i am greatfull for every butt whopping i ever got. i must admit i wasn't a very good kid and i feel they kept me from getting into serious trouble. i lost my dad way to soon and would give anything for more time with him. the behavior i see from kids these days makes me think its nothing that a few good butt whoppings wouldn't fix. i am sorry i guess i am old school if they need it then they ought to get it.

[Big Tom]

As I said, it should be left to the parents to decide if a spanking is the appropriate thing or not - I, probably just as most of you here, agree that the government and political correctness etc. should not get involved in what the right parenting is - as long as it is a spanking and not a beating and physical abuse.

A spanking - not a problem in my books, if it gets out of control and to the level that some experienced and described, that is not parenting but abuse in my books. I consider myself very "old school" and conservative as well, but that does not really justify beating up your kids.

Also, yes I survived getting beaten above what I consider acceptable (even in "old school" interpretation) and it did not make me a bad person - more of the opposite as I probably have a better feeling about what is wrong - but it caused a kind of relationship to my dad that I don't want to have with my kids. That is the primary driver for my position.

And no, I was not really a bad boy that required a lot of parental correction. Never stole anything, never beat any other kids up, finished high school and job education, did not get any speeding tickets and when getting drunk with buddies, managed to never puke in my parents house :-))



big tom i am greatfull for every butt whopping i ever got. i must admit i wasn't a very good kid and i feel they kept me from getting into serious trouble. i lost my dad way to soon and would give anything for more time with him. the behavior i see from kids these days makes me think its nothing that a few good butt whoppings wouldn't fix. i am sorry i guess i am old school if they need it then they ought to get it.

[starnbar]

R U shooter my 5 sons still talk and laugh about the (spoon dance ) the missus would give em.

[Don Purcell]

My dad spanked me twice and each time it was just one swat, the last one was when I was 6 years old and I deserved it. I wasn't a rocket scientist but was smart enough to know there was no future in it. However, his "growling" reprimands were probably worse.

[RichardB]

I lost my dad to cancer when I was about 6. I have a few memories of him. One is getting a whoopin' along with the other 3 kids for some silly argument and play trouble. I smile every time I think about it and KNOW that he did it because he loved us and wanted us to grow up right.

[RED BEAR]

my mom was the one you had to watch out for she was 5 foot nothing and 100 pounds so when me and my brothers ( all well over 6 foot ) got to tussling in the house the broom came out and not the soft end. but in her defence it was bout the only thing that would move us.

[osteodoc08]

I feel there is a difference between getting spanked and outright abuse. I can’t say I didn’t deserve every spanking I got. I think as I got older a spanking would have been preferential to knowing I had disappointed my parents. I remember only one time my father spanked me. I had just got my B.B. gun and as embarrassing as it is to tell y’all, I had shot my neighbors dog in the butt. Neighbor caught me and he called me over. I sheepishly admitted to my dastardly deed and he asked for my B.B. gun and to go fetch my dad so they could talk. That was a long walk home although was in reality a few hundred yards. I remember dad was washing dishes as he was prepping dinner and I told him the neighbor needed to talk to him. He asked why and before I knew it he had back handed me so hard I wound up on the floor and I just laid there collecting myself as he stepped over me to go talk to the neighbor. It seemed like an eternity he was gone. I don’t remember what happened after that as the memory is a bit fuzzy. I do remember the disappointment on his face when he returned. I had to go talk to the neighbor myself. It’s hard to look a man in his eye when you’ve shot his dog.

That’s the only time I ever remember my father hitting me. I never raised any weapon of any sort against something I didn’t intend to harvest after that. I still don’t know why I did that as it’s just unconscionable now. I want to say I was about 8-9. There isn’t a day that goes by I don’t miss my old man. He’s been gone a little over 5 years and I seem to miss him more now that my boys are getting older. I truly hope I can be the father he was and have the patience with my boys he had with me.

[Hickory]

I will not relate any events of the types of "discipline" I received when I was a kid.
You would not believe me if told them here, I will tell of one event, via PM if anyone is interested.

[DoubleAdobe]

R U shooter my 5 sons still talk and laugh about the (spoon dance ) the missus would give em.

Haha, yes, I remember once when my brother (2 yrs. older) and I were being jerks, fighting and fussing, and my poor old Mom had warned us numerous times. My Dad had not got home from work, so we felt purty safe, relatively.
So Mom got a belly full and told us to go get a belt out of her dresser drawer. We went in there and got a cloth dress belt that women used to wear. Man, we thought we were clever!
She did her best to put a stinging on us, but the cloth belt just wasn't up to the task, she couldn't swing it hard enough to hurt really.
Sooooo, she was mad, humiliated and out for revenge then.
She said the most dreaded of all things then. Ok, smart alecks, wait till your Dad gets home.
That was just one more bad decision we made. Dad fairly warmed us up, and needless to say, we never disrespected my Mom in such a way, ever again.

[IA Smoke]

I don't think corporal punishment is needed or appropriate once a child reaches a certain age. Probably not much past 7.

I believe it depends on the child. A good parent figures it out eventually. My daughter was tough to tame and got a few spankings along the way. It didn't work, and neither did constant groundings. I deployed to the the Middle East for a year and Mom couldn't handle her at all. Shoplifting and other petty crimes. When she was 14 she borrowed my well bumpered Jeep and drove it through the front of the elementary school. I split the court judgement with her because it was hopeless for her to pay off. Two years making Subway sandwiches and she paid for bricks. She was starting to get it but not quite yet. School grades were still poor and I wasted 3 semesters college tuition for literally no credit hours. That killed me because she is smart. She agreed she should just work for awhile and grow up. After a year of waiting tables and living in her own apartment she asked for one more chance. She moves back home and takes a medic course. I pay for the course. That was a year ago. She now works on an ambulance crew in my small town, and ER tech at the hospital. She also waits tables two nights a week to pay for some of these wasteful school loans. Works some crazy long hours. Does a lot of CPR and has probably saved a few lives in her first few months. Wants to be a real paramadic and the hospital will pay for the training soon. She has experienced some terrible stuff like responding to suicides. Things I am not so sure I could mentally handle. Her life finally has meaning to her. She truly gets it now and I am a proud Dad. She is 21 now. It probably could have taken longer but I kept the faith. I really thought she was going to prison eventually. As for me, I got about ten whippings as a child and I flew straight. :) That would not have cured my daughter. It just depends on the child's personality. Some of it is nutured, some of it is just nature IMO.