View Full Version : What's it like where you live?
11-28-2005, 11:07 AM
4fingermick & Bad *** Wallace have been patiently answering my questions about the hassles of buying and owning their guns in Australia in another (slightly hijacked) thread. It has given me an opportunity to reflect not only on what a PITA it is for them, but also on how lucky we are (mostly) here in the US to live without so many nasty and pointless restrictions. I know that we have members in a lot of other countries, and to those members I would like to ask these questions....
Where do you live and what do you have to go through there in order to:
Buy a rifle?
Buy a handgun?
Buy a hunting license?
What kind of restrictions on the kinds and numbers of guns you can own do you have to put up with?
Can you keep them in your home?
How are you restricted in their use?
What do you find most frustrating about it?
11-28-2005, 12:04 PM
After living in Canada for fifty years under ever-increasing restrictions (VERY much like Australia's, if not worse) we re-located to Nevada in 1997.
By comparison, this is Heaven on earth for active shooters.
No paperwork of any description is needed to buy anything except NFA items (federally-registered) from a private citizen. I go to the seller's place, or to a parking lot to meet with him, or whatever...pay the money, take gun, go home. When selling, I legally have to ensure that I'm selling to a resident of Nevada. I usually give the buyer a bill of sale after seeing his proof of residence, and ask for a similar document when buying, but it is NOT required. There is NO government involvement in private gun sales.
No restrictions exist for numbers or types of firearms owned by a private citizen. Storage regulations do not exist.
Hunting licences are easy to obtain, but getting drawn for tags in this desert state is often very difficult. This is a minor factor to me.
Concealed-carry permits are on a shall-issue basis... if you meet the requirements, they HAVE to issue the permit.
Firearms may be used in any location where it is safe to shoot. Tracers and incendiaries are forbidden simply due to the highly-flammable desert environment.
My greatest frustration is a federal one, because I have a legal machine gun in Canada which may NOT be imported under the 1986 FOPA. It's valued at a few hundred dollars in Canada, and about forty THOUSAND bucks in the USA. Apart from that, the extreme costs of Class III guns is also a pain in the nether regions. Pretty minor complaints, really, and I am one very happy shooter, here in Nevada.
11-28-2005, 02:15 PM
Yuppee, I guess I have some bureaucracy to handle. "I want" is no good reason to get permit for firearms here.
I can buy any gun if I have legal reason for it and place to use it. Legal reason can be several things listed by the law, mainly hunting and target shooting for me. It can be also collecting, or for working purposes of many kind. If I have a hunting license and a place to hunt (government territories are open for everybody, so no problem), then getting the permit is just filling the paper and paying the fee. Basically I need to show, prove to the officials that I have the license and the possibility to hunt.
Hunting firearm can be basically any caliber, autoloader, or any other type, military assault rifle style, green, blue, shiny or black etc., but no full automatic. Autoloading rifle or shotgun can be with any magazine capacity, but hunter needs to limit magazine mechanically for hunting. Pump guns has no magazine limitations even for hunting.
Handgun is not a hunting firearm here, so for a handgun I need to have a hobby like target shooting, silhouette shooting practical shooting etc. Officials may want to see if I'm really going to do target shooting, membership in shooting club will help and paid tickets from commercial shooting range will help as well. It's very common, that they want to see some shooting with .22 rf license first before they allow me to get 9mm pistol for example. No magazine limitations.
Memberships of any kind of clubs or associations are not needed to get firearms license; we have strict unification freedom and officials cannot say that one must belong to some shooting association to get license. But generally it helps...
For handguns the officials have a certain box to check if the gun is too small making it a pocket pistol for example. If pistol fits to that box, it's not possible to have permit for it, except pocket pistol permit, which has very strict and next to impossible rules for a average shooter to fill. Means that they are available only for collectors and for polices or other working purposes.
To became a firearms collector one must have a collecting plan, a plan that shows what kind of firearms, from what era, or what style etc. he is going to collect. For collector license one must make an application to the Ministry of Interior with that plan and prove that he has appropriate and safe system to store firearms. Police will make an inspection that facilities are acceptable etc.
Full automatic firearms (with serial fire) are basically available to certified collectors only, but not necessarily.
All guns must have license if owner is going to shoot, also original front loaders. Guns manufactured before 1890 are license free, but only if they are not used for shooting but wall hanging only. Only relief with black powder weapons is that one firearm class is "black powder weapon", including all C&B revolvers, rifles, shotguns, flintlocks and even cannons intended only for black powder.
Private individuals or gun shops can ship firearms directly to the buyer/receiver. Buyer needs to send his license beforehand, and seller/sender fills it up, sends one copy to license office and two copies to the buyer/receiver. Buyer present his new gun in the license office, they check the numberings and that firearm is the same type as the license was intended for. Few weeks later new owner receives his new license card. Oh yes, every purchasing license is always intended for certain type of firearm, single shot shotgun or rifle, magazine gun, autoloader, revolver etc. and usually for certain caliber. In some cases they allow some caliber range or even magazine/autoloader possibility...
If I don't know in advance if I'm going to buy single shot rifle, auto loading rifle or if I'll find great deal on o/u shotgun, then I'll need three separate licenses. Every license is 32 euros one by one ($37..$38 ). If I apply many licenses at the same time, they will be 32+24+24+24+24... License is good six months, unused ones must be returned.
We keep guns in our homes. There's no limitations in quantity of them, but if there's handguns or more than (IIRC) five autoloaders, then it's necessary to have certified gun cabinet or safe. Time to time there's rumors of overactive officials making non-official rules when they are issuing firearm permits. There've been rumors of circular letters from office to office ruling that this and that model is not allowed at all and such things. Mostly those are dealing with modern pistol carbines which are used for practical or reservists shooting sports and are good for them. They normally won't fit to our basic classes of handgun or rifle and are called "other firearms".
And no carrying of guns of any kind in public areas... not even knives.
And so on... I'll skip hunting for now, but it's way easier...
11-28-2005, 03:25 PM
To get a pistol permit in New York STATE, it takes a pistol class, you should be a member of a gun club, 3 signitures on your permit app. You also have to pass a federal investagation, you have to be fingerprinted and it costs around $300.00? Some of these costs are a passport type photo, license fees, the pistol class........
The signitures need to be from other permit holders. A priest, a lawyer and a business owner would be best. They have to live in the county you do. They may (will) be interviewed by the officer in charge of permits.
In some counties it takes a year. Others as little as 6 weeks. Depends on where you live.
We can carry CONCEALED ONLY.
There are 2 types, target and hunting or concealed carry. Target and hunting means you can only carry to the range or hunting. Concealed means carry all the time. These are allowed more freely to business owners that might have a large amount of ca$h or have a good chance of being robbed.
NEW YORK STATE means NOT in NEW YORK CITY. New york city is another thing entirely. I cannot take a handgun into a bar or NYC.
I am responsable for my guns. If one commits a crime, I am done for.
In New york state, if some one called the police and ONLY said I pointed a gun at them, the police would come imediatly and take all my guns till everything was sorted out. They are supposed to be locked up at home or in my personal possesion. I could not leave one at some ones house or even let some one with out a permit shoot them...Legally. Its my understanding that if some one else has a permit, they can shoot my handgun at a club as long as I am right there.
New York State has some of the toughest laws to obtain a permit. Many other states recignize our permits like PA. (hi herb) Our laws are more strict than theirs, so they are cool with us.
After I buy so many handguns (6? 8? 10?) I have to become a collector or dealer. It all depends on the county and civil officer.
I know a guy that had some handguns stolen from his house. He lost his permit (and the rest of his handguns) because they were not locked up.
Some counties will give "cupons" to buy a handgun at a gun show or dealer, some will not. Once you have the permit, cost is nothing unless you add or delete a firearm. Then its just a few bucks.
I would like to hear from other states.
11-28-2005, 05:16 PM
When the Brady Bunch were running with the Clinton's, our county sherrif went on the radio. He said, anyone who wants a CCW permit, he would see that they got it. I think they may want a hunters ed certificate. I had a pistol course certificate, plus a CCW from another state. They didn't look at either, when I got mine.
To take pistols into Canada, I have to have a permission from the provincial chief firearms officer, to transport to ranges, with open dates for an extended period. Fairly easy to do. Just a pain in the butt. Dealing with Canadian firearms has been a much bigger hassle than here in the states, and they are so juvinile in thier testing and requirements, you can tell who ever came up with it, knew zero about firearms.
11-28-2005, 06:48 PM
at first when the gun law when in it was a long process to get your permit ....needed a lot of signiture from every body.... but now since the cost of this program is way high like in the 2 1/2 Milliard in french the law has slacken a lot simple forme one signiture and to renew just say if your adres is the same...and because of the cost there is talk to abalish it....and put this mony in medical care.....
11-28-2005, 07:25 PM
Excellent logic. Why squander all that money paying beaurocrats to push paper around when the money can be sent to pharmaceutical companies which will make sure some of that money finds its way home?
11-28-2005, 07:53 PM
Here in New Zealand it is still quite straight forward to own firearms.
5 catagories of license.
A cat allows me to own any number of rifles or shotguns providing the centrefires semis have no more than a 7 round magazine and the rimfire semis no more than 15. Semis not allowed pistol grips etc.
B cat is handguns. Bit more security required and they may only be used on official club ranges. No carry or hunting.
C cat is collectors license and allows for anything shoulder launched to be owned but you are not permitted to fire it. Lots of machine guns etc out there. The odd one goes bang now and then.......... :twisted:
D cat is dealer license.
E cat is for military style semi autos with pistol grips, magazine capacity greater than A cat, bayonent lugs etc.
Applying for license is straight forward. Police vet everyone and interview you and your partner/spouse and get a reference from another shooter who knows you. Lockable facility required for firearms. Takes a couple of months all going well and is good for 10 years then must be renewed per same process.
Once you have your license on A cat you can buy and sell freely however the restricted B, C, E types require transfers to be done with police.
To buy ammo you have to have a license though reloading components you do not :???:
All in all it's not really that bad. Talk of Canadian style rego but we had that 30 years ago and it was a shambles (go figure) so it has gone quiet again.
11-28-2005, 08:27 PM
Here in Oregon you can carry concealed while hunting, fishing or going to and from or to and from a shooting range. CCW is shall issue with the taking of a safety class. Businesses can put up no weapons signs and you can't legally carry into those places. Permit costs $50 for 4 years. We can own whatever we want. Auto weapons subject to federal permit. Instant check cost $10 and you walk out of the store with the weapon. Sales between individuals are legal. I always ask for a DL unless I know the person. All I know about Washington state is the CCW permit costs $50 for 4 years and I've been told full auto not allowed. As far as I know no limit on amount of guns you own in either state. Auto loaders are limited to 5 rounds for hunting. Otherwise no limit on mag caps. Mark
Bad Ass Wallace
11-29-2005, 02:10 AM
Please don't think Australians are oppressed to the point where we go hunting with a slingshot or a spear! :Fire:
I own 145 rifles, 9 handguns & 7 shotguns; no problem except that I HAVE to shoot at least 2 times per month to prove active attendence and retain the licences.
The thing that get my anger is that the rednecks at the licencing dept tell me what I have. As an example a rifle I don't have appeared on my 21 page list. I am supposed to have a Mauser 98 3006 with a Serial number 4570, so I wrote and told them I don't have such an item. Back came the list and now I have a 98 4570 with serial number 3006????
I have 17cal centerfires that are registered as air rifles because "all 17's are air rifles!"
We can have bolt, lever, pumps & single shot rifles (no semi-auto's), single or double shotguns (no semi-auto or pump) revolvers and s/s pistols and semi-auto's up to 38 cal and over 38 cal up to 45 cal with special permits.
We don't like "Big Brother" dictating what we can and cannot own, as you are either a responsible gun owner or you are not; but thems the flamin rules we have to live by.
Anything black powder seems to get approved without question, so I just submit all requests as "Black powder cartridge rifles"
12-01-2005, 04:17 AM
Apparently where DavidR lives in NY is different than St Lawrence county where I live and Hamilton, Franklin and Warren CO where I have lived in the past. You don't have to belong to a gun club, you need 4 character refrences, not relatives, just member in good standing the community, no pistol safety class in St Law Co, and it ran $99.00 for the DCJS background check. We can carry open or concealed, although I hear of new permit restrictions that say "For hunting and Target use only". Haven't seen it yet. No carry in NYC, the infamous Sullivan Law.
As far as "the police" coming and taking all his guns if he points a gun at someone- depending on the circumstances it's possible we would come with a Court order and seize the guns of a deranged lunatic. If he was using a gun to protect himself, family or property then the issue would be different. In cases of domestic violence, depending on the County Court Judge, there is sometimes a temporary order issued for the guns, which I don't agree with since we never are told to check and see if SHE has any guns. Political Correctness runs rampant.
The 20 gun limit is a Penal Law reference to 20 "Firearms" - that means handguns and there are ways around that. I don't follow what the " if one of my guns is used in a crime, I'm done for" idea is. Of course again, the elected County Court Judge has a lot of say in all this. Unfortunately they have a 10 year term and once seated are harder to remove than bubblegum from a kids hair. The average voter never considers this when they vote them in.
12-01-2005, 07:00 PM
I now live in Orleans county. The permit troubles I was refering to are mostly from Erie County. I also lived in Niagara and Genesee counties. I am originally from Lewis county, different story there. My permit did say "Hunting and target"
Tpr Bret, If someone calls you and says " he pointed a gun at me " and I didn't, would you take em away unitil it was all sorted out? The way I have seen it around here, it would happen in an instant.
The guy that lost his permit because some of his guns (2) were stolen from his home lives in Niagara county.
Its a small world. I dated a forest ranger's daughter in Hamelton county when In college. You might know her dad.
Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.
12-02-2005, 04:35 AM
Dave- I've made a royal ### out of myself a few times by getting one half of the story and not the other half. I, me, just myself, would take a look at both sides before I decided who got arrested. Other guys do things differently. Depends on the exact situation.
I've heard horror stories about a lot of things in Erie Co. Some may actually be true. What was the last name of the Ranger?
12-02-2005, 08:11 AM
Da, tovarichi--in PRC, guns are allowed to pipples after State conduct background check on every purchaser every time he/she attempts purchase. Long guns and handguns all have 10-day waiting period to allow State time to do the inquiry--is good, nyet?
Handguns in PRC are subject to State approval before to be sold in Pipple's Respooblik. Idea for this was to keep cheep small-caliber pot-metal pocket guns out of circulation, but most of these passed State test anyway. Must be part of Five Year Plan, nyet? Just like driving screws with hammer in auto factory--MUST MAKE QUOTA.
Comrade Deputy Al love Big Brother. Da!
12-02-2005, 10:49 AM
Comrade Al, Spacebaw for report from PRC, as am leeving just north of PRM, can understand frustrations. Vas also beeg part of reason for starting thread after thinking about tovarischi on other side of vorld.
By the way, responses from around the country as well as around the world are really helping to fill in pieces of the puzzle. Thank you all and keep them coming. Understanding our similarities highlights our differences, but understanding our differences helps us focus on what we have in common.
Almost forgot, here in "Live Free or Die" New Hampshire there are no restrictions on what we can buy or how many we can own own, except we must pass Instant Check and no full autos/selective fires without a federal permit. License To Carry Pistol Or Revolver is issued (shall issue) by Police Chiefs or by Selectmen in smaller towns and is only needed for concealed carry or loaded in a vehicle (that's the firearm, not the driver). It can take a couple of weeks to get the necessary signatures. Any handgun can be worn unconcealed without a permit, but the practice is not as commoon now and will often result in a call to local law enforcement by the paranoid in the more densely populated areas in the southern part of the state. Local police departments there do not always make sure their officers understand that this is a civil right, so there are occasional arrests and resulting lawsuits that make the news.
Hunting licenses are sold upon showing either a Hunter Ed card or a previous hunting license (from this or any other state, and it doesn't matter how old it it as long as your ID matches). Archery licenses need Bow Hunter Ed card or previous archery license. We can now use crossbows during rifle season. M/L deer season precedes firearms for ten days, no extra tag, though. Moose permits are awarded by lottery. There's one deer tag on a BG license, an extra one on an archery license, and you pay extra for a bear tag or two turkey tags (one for shotgun in spring and one for archery in fall, and you need an archery license to use it.) All pheasants are stocked birds, so there's an extra fee to hunt them, too, which buys and raises the birds for next season.
12-15-2005, 08:02 AM
Wow New Mexico is heaven compared to other places for weapons. Shall issue CCW, no waiting period for buying. Our CCW is kind of funky, we just allowed reprocity with other states. Takes about 4-6 weeks to get your permit. We are an open carry state. If you carry concealed with out a permit it is a 4th deg misdomenor. That is if it is loaded. If it is unloaded it is not a weapon except in a place that sells alcohol then it is a 4th deg felony. The unloaded part is kind of a gret area. Some LEO's say an auto loader can have the mag in but no round in the chamber. Others say no mag in. revolvers are kind of self explainitory unloaded means empty cylinder.Your personal vehicle is considerd an extension of your home. We do have our problems but my family has lived here since the early 1700's. Kind of hard to leave it!!
Enemies may come into our country and times will have changed, but then the boys will come down from the old high hills and belt on their guns again.
Here in NE we have NO concealed carry law. We have been trying to enact one for years but it keeps getting bogged down by one Omaha Senator and his clique. He doesn't want to see anyone with guns but his bodyguard. Our law is an affirmitive defense law that says no one can carry unless they can prove (after arrest?) that they have a reason to do so.
What we do have is Protection Orders...
EG. I served one yesterday on a fellow and here is what his wife said." It's deer season and if I get this order you will have to take his guns and that wil just kill the SOB".
Nation wide for the commission of a misdemeanor assault you WILL lose your civil rights if it involves a family member of significant other. You should hear HHS's explanation of what constitutes an OTHER. One conviction for what would when committed against a stranger be a $50 fine will lose you your civil rights for life. For arguing against this I have been called a dinosaur, a homophobe and a potential abuser. This law had little to do with abuse and a LOT to do with back door gun control.
Meanwhile a CONVICTED murderer was sentenced to 34 yers in jail and with good time will be eligible for release in 17 years and parole even sooner!
12-16-2005, 01:50 AM
Here in Wisconsin, its not perfect, but its getting better.
For purchases from a dealer, standard Federal laws apply- Fill out Form 4473, dealer calls FBI hotline, sale is approved, you pay for shotgun or rifle and go home with it. There is no restriction on the number of guns you can own or buy at the same time. Buying more than 1 handgun from a single dealer in a week requires the dealer to send a special form to the BATFE to report the purchases where you might be flagged by the Feds for a bit more observation.
In Wisconsin, we have a 2 day waiting period on hanguns :-x plus we have to fill out a few nonsensical pieces of paperwork that really don't mean anything.
For $30, you can apply for a Curio and Relic license which allows you to order approved C&R firearms (shotguns, pistols, and rifles) that are over 50 years old or have historical significance and have them shipped directly to your front door.
CMP (civillian Marksmanship Program) sells M1 Garands, 1903 Springfields, 1917 Enfields, and various .22 target rifles that are shipped to your door if you are qualified. Qualification requires belonging to a CMP affiliated club (most shooting clubs seem to be qualified) and having proof of marksmanship activity (Competitor's card or a copy of a recent score card).
We can hunt with any rifle .223 and larger with the exception of full autos. The more urban areas are shotgun or handgun only for big game. Handguns must be .357 magnum or bigger for hunting big game. .22 Handguns are ok for small game. Hunting licenses are reasonably priced, in some areas, you can shoot nearly unlimited numbers of deer by buying bonus tags for $12 a piece though 1 or 2 bonus tags often come with a license purchase anyhow.
Full Auto- we can own full autos here, though the standard federal registry rules apply, and registered full autos are very expensive.
Concealed handgun Carry- My state does not have this yet, but probably will before the end of nex year, there is a lot of political momentum behind passing a law allowing such right now.
Transportation of firearms- in my state a firearm has to be fully enclosed in a case while being transported on a boat, car, snowmobile, or ATV.
12-16-2005, 05:27 AM
.........Too add to Dep Al's. Here in California, no legal full autos. Lots of afflicted Kalifornicators own such and there are obliging gun storage places in Nevada and Arizona who store them. Their owners then on occasion travel to visit their evil full auto guns, and may take them out for excersize. BTW, since the NFA was enacted in the early 30's only once has a legally civilian own full auto been used in the commission of a crime.
There are no longer any 'non registered' private party sales. This has been the case for about 10 years. Your grandfather passes and leaves you a couple nice old guns. These then (to be legal) have to go to an 01 FFL holder to be logged into his inventory. A DROS (Dealers Record of Sale) is completed and called into the state capitol. After 10 days unless told otherwise, the dealer is free to release them (it) to you. The DROS fee is currently $15 I think, and the dealer may charge you some amount up to a state mandated max.
When you purchase a rifle or pistol you must show proof of ownership of one of the state approved gun safes. If you don't have one you are obligated to buy (and the store must offer for sale) one of the state approved gunlocks. I have a drawerfull BTW.
To purchase a rifle or shotgun you do not need anything special other then a recognized piece of paper to establish your age and residence. You still have the DROS and 10 day wait. For a pistol you must take a test and get issued a card. There are fees attached to this test but I don't know what they currently are. It's just BS to discourage people.
There are no restrictions whatsoever on BP guns so long as they load loose powder and ball from the muzzle. Federal antiques and 'non-guns' also have no restrictions.
CCW's are issued by the county sheriff. This may be VERY political, or a 'Good ole Boy' deal or a combination. San Bernardino and the Riverside county sheriff's are pretty good, but you still have to show some need of some kind. There was a sheriff in north central California who was operating on a 'Shall Issue' basis. Basicly if you could legally own a pistol and satified the CCW requirements you got your permit. Boy the liberal anti-gunners were apoplectic. I remember hearing a radio interview with the sheriff. He didn't have much time for idiotic stupid questions from drooling newsreporters either :D
In California there is a law that you cannot have a firearm within I think 600 yards of a public school. The exemptions are: If you live within that distance or the route you take to hunt or go to a range or someplace to shoot goes by it. They just don't want you standing around with one I guess.
Traveling in an automobile with firearms is pretty straight forward. The firearms and ammunition cannot be readily accesable to you.
Going to visit the folks in Arizona is always a treat. On Saturday the Lions Club hosts a swap meet type deal in their town. The couple times I've been there, there have been 2 guys just selling guns. However scattered out amongst the sellers of lawn umbrella's and old lawnmowers, dishes, toys and clothing here and there someone will have some description of firearm they're selling. You hand the U.S. Federal Reserve notes over the cardtable, and they hand you the gun. You saunter away up the lane. How refreshing :-)
12-16-2005, 06:04 AM
Buckshot and Al, that is all so unamerican. How do you put up with it? sundog
12-16-2005, 08:02 AM
And to add to Buckshot's explanation... For a pistol you also have to take in a utility bill with your name on it before the sale is complete. How silly can it get? About the gunlocks, Rick, I just bought one at WalMart when I went to pick up the gun; then returned it to them when that piece of nonsense was out of the way. (You have to have a receipt showing you just bought it, you can't just buy one and use it over and over.)
12-25-2005, 12:05 PM
Wow! This thread is an eyopener.I live in South East New York,and really glad that I bough tand wheedled a bunch of guns when I was younger.
A friend gave n me a nice Remington Rand 45 ACP (pistol) All that was involved was a handshake,a thank you and a glass of beer. Amonth ago,I decided to give this gun to a deserving fellow out of State. After a week of inquiring by both of us as to wht had to be done to transfer it to him,He said,"don't bother,I don't need it that bad".NY law is viing with Fed law to be more difficult to deal with.
Pistols ar difficult to buy or sell, here in NY State Once you have them,it depends on the local Officials,and laws for possessing an using pistols.I have no problem,here in Orange County.
Rifles seem to be accpted pretty much throughout he State.Paperwork when buying or selling is the only added barriier.
Hunting license and restrictions are also pretty good.Our hunting restrictions are supported by most Hunters.(they concern fair chase).This year,Rifle hunting was made legal in Western NY for the first time (I think)ever.
I'm only allowed 5 pistols on my license;a County law.To the North and West and East,it is bettr.
The most frustrating thing to me is the great diversity from one area to another.There should be a State law guarenteeing basic rights.
12-25-2005, 02:27 PM
Perhaps you should wright your elected offical Hillary to work on that state law you want. Think she will help?
Where in orange county. I grew up in Otisville and left 34 years ago. I was told I just didnt fit in. Thier still telling me the same thing.
12-25-2005, 05:03 PM
"There should be a State law guarenteeing basic rights. Frank"
Well, it's more than a law. It's the Second Amendment, and what has happened where you are, and where Buckshot and Deputy Al are, and maybe a few other places like Illinois, is unamerican. It's downright shameful! New York is a most wonderous place, I know, I grew up there, but the people who are getting their way are communists, plain and simple.
btw, I just upgraded my NRA membership. Yet again. sundog
12-26-2005, 08:30 AM
Here in Missouri we have things going pretty well but not perfectly. We got concealed carry a few years ago when the GOP got control of the State house and senate. You have to take a one time course in handgun handleing and state law. It take about 8 Hrs. and costs about $100 to $200 but many of the gun clubs offered them free and pay the County about $50 for a backround check and get the carry permit in 2 weeks.
The other part of this law is you can carry a loaded pistol concealed on your person or under or on the seat of your car, but only in your car if you are over 23 years old and have no criminal record. You can't carry a loaded rifle in the car, the reason for this is spot lighters and poachers.
Buying and selling long guns between private parties has no restrictions.
For buying a pistol you are supposed to go through a dealer and get a one time per pistol permit from the County Sheriff for $10, which you give to the seller. You can pickup an open permit if you are going to a gun show or shopping around for a pistol and it's good for 30 days.
According to state law you can't use a silencer even if you have a Federal permit.
Hunting is very good in most of the state, here in the northwest part we have an abundance of White tails. $17 for an anydeer permit (Buck) and $7 For Doe and button buck. This year you can buy an unlimited number of doe, button buck tags.
Small game license is $10.
If you are 65 or older you don't need a fishing or small game hunting License if you are a resident of Missouri. (I put this in because I will be 65 next year!!) you still have to buy deer and turkey tags.
I hope this explains a little about Missouri gun laws.
12-26-2005, 06:51 PM
Well, I live in Illinois, (big sigh), and I'll fill in the blanks.
First, the FOID, Firearms Owner Identification card. How Orwellian. You can't buy a gun or ammo or even hold a gun in a gun store without one. I got my first one in 1971 so I could buy a Sheridan Blue Streak. Not a misprint.
24 waiting period for rifle / shotguns. 72 hours for handguns. NO concealed carry of any kind, don't even ask. (Unless you're a Chicago alderman)
No magazine bans or "assault" weapon bans, but they're trying every session thanks to that little punk mayor of Chicago.
No hunting with centerfire rifles, maybe coyotes are okay, but not deer. Archery season is pretty long. Muzzle loaders okay for deer, shotguns okay, and a recently added handgun season. Crossbows are verboten unless you're handicapped.
Not sure about all hunting regs, but you can't carry a handgun on you while hunting with a long gun or bow. No carry of any kind.
Licenses are available pretty easily for bow hunting. Lottery for shotgun seasons.
Some pretty strange rules about transporting guns to the range. People are very confused about this. From what I understand, guns have to be in a case, with case being a zippered case, box, or other container that can be closed. Magazines can have cartridges in them, mags cannot be in gun. There is some confusion about this, to be on the safe side most leave mags unfilled until the range.
Bows even have to be encased during transport, lest some sheep soil themselves in fear.
On a brighter note, some believe that if Daley and Blago are defeated, concealed carry is a possibility. But the machine Daley inherited from his father still controls much of the state, and they drive the bus on gun issues.
12-27-2005, 11:02 AM
Newburgh is South and East of Otisville,on the Hudson river.We're about 10 miles North of West Point.
Otisville is nice Country;but Alaska is Beautiful.
There is no point in talking to Senator Hillery.She has no interest in this State,and never did.She is here because of the great number of Democats in the big cities who would vote for her and give her a base from which she can run for President.
We had the verysame thing a few years ago with l'il Bobby Kennedy.His plans were aborted by someone who really disliked him.
We seem to be progressing lately.It's a little better now,then 10 years ago.We have te wait and see what Governor Patakie.s new anti crime bill will have in the fine print.The initial announcement seems innocent enough.
12-30-2005, 11:47 AM
In Denmark its not easy to own a gun, most be member of a shooting club in 2 years, before you can own a Pistol/revolver.
2 years is a long time, but i got my licence last summer.
Its a great forum, i enjoy it .
12-30-2005, 11:37 PM
Frank, Thanks for the posting!
TWO YEARS!!? :shock: :holysheep
It just makes me want to ask a bunch more questions.
Are you allowed to shoot other people's guns at the club while you are waiting? What about rifles and shotguns? Do you have similar requirements for owning them? Can you keep your guns in your home? Are there any limits on how many you can own? What about hunting?
What is the crime rate like? Is it safe to walk city streets at night? We never hear about what it's really like in other places in our media, not even in the firearms related publications. We tend to sit smug and happy - even though we know it's bad in other places, it's very difficult to find out how bad.
12-31-2005, 04:15 AM
Basic rights in NY!!! Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha! Stop it! You're killing me!
The only basic right is the right to loose your rights. Although Pataki has been good to me as an employer, his constant aquisition of State Land is just one of many proofs the man is NOT a Republican. Think of the number of people that would be employed if State Land was sustainably logged. But no, it goes into the Forever Wild title and after that is shut off to the public for all practical purposes.
Don't get me started on this stuff.
12-31-2005, 05:23 AM
In Michigan there are no long gun sales restrictions between private owners and only the federal restrictions on commercial sales. All handguns must be registered through the State and have been since the 1930's. Without a cpl, a permit to purchase must be obtained from the local law, which can take 1 to any number of days, depending on the local regs. For example, when I lived in Madison Heights, I had to apply for the permit and wait for it to be mailed. Where I live now, it is a same day process. Anyway, when the permit is obtained, you have 10 days to get the gun or it expires, the paperwork must be filled out in front of a notary and the paperwork and the gun must be taken to the same law office to be registered to you. You get a green card that must stay with the pistol wherever it is. Loaning handguns is not allowed. Obniously you can't carry off of your own property without a cpl and the pistol(s) must be unloaded and locked away from the passenger compartment to be transported. Hunting is allowed with a proper hunting license, but concealed carry is not under those circumstances. I'm not a lawyer, butr this is how I understand it. Now some of the transportation laws have changed lately, but since I have had my cpl for several years, ever since we got a shall carry law in this state, a lot of these restrictions don't apply to me, so I haven't kept up. I am no longer required to get a permit to purchase, just have to fill out a little form when I do purchase. The pistol still has to be registered within 10 days. Unlike some states, our carry law does not require range qualification or list the the pistols on the license, i.e. you can carry whatever you have. Rifles with folding stocks that can fire when the overall length is under 27 inches are required to be registered as pistols, thanks to an extreemist Attorney General from several terms ago.
A number of Michigan Counties have resisted the implementation of the shall carry law and even several years later they are still fighting it. Our Michigan gun organization (MCRGO) that was behind the passage of the shall carry law spends a lot of time and money in court fighting for our gun rights. They just got a judge to order an end to a practice in Kent County where a signed letter from a doctor stating that an applicant was not mentally ill was requred for a cpl. You can guess how many doctors would take that liability.
The lesson for today is that it is easier to prevent bad law that repeal it, if you don't have this **** where you live, put your time and money into keeping it that way.
12-31-2005, 06:01 AM
"The lesson for today is that it is easier to prevent bad law that repeal it, if you don't have this **** where you live, put your time and money into keeping it that way."
Exactly why I have, yet again, upgraded my NRA membership (Life member since early 70's) and send dues EVERY year to my state association. You don't have to agree with everything these organizations do, but it's the only thing we got. Over the years they have certainly gotten better as watchdogs. The Weyerhouser thing here in Oklahoma is an unamerican travesty, and at least NRA is trying to help. sundog
The Nyack Kid
12-31-2005, 08:27 AM
I agree with sundog
when somebody is complaining about the gunlaws, i ask em if they are NRA members , lots arn't .
that is a problem .
12-31-2005, 08:56 AM
The NRA is all we have so I contribute by paying more for the magazine and when requested by them via mail. I have no idea on how many years of subscription I have and don't really care. However, I don't like the way they spend money on salaries and on real estate, and most especially I don't care for their attitude of NOT going for broke whenever possible. They take only what THEY think they can win, and therefore lower their objectives as dirty harry would say, "got to know your limitations". Going for broke here means nullifying ALL laws throughout the land that deals with any kind of gun limitation whatsoever. ... felix
12-31-2005, 09:52 AM
Felix .... You're my Hero. I have been a Life Member of the NRA since I don't remember when. But I became so tired of receiving all the "extra mail" from them that I gave them a change of address. Now my son (same name except a Jr.) gets the monthly magazine & all the other stuff. He enjoys it. I don't. But like you I believe the NRA is the only organization on the federal level that's doing much good for us.
Sundog .... Don't forget the Oklahoma Rifle Association was (and still is) the driving force behind whatever good has happened in our state legislature. The NRA didn't even become envolved until the CCL became an almost "done deal." My take on it is that NRA didn't want egg on its face if the original bill fell through.
12-31-2005, 09:55 AM
I've been told I'm a bit of an *** about it. No one shoots on my range, and I'm not even going to look at your gun unless you have a valid NRA membership. If you are in a hurry, I have a computer and you are welcome to whip out a credit card.
While I can't say I'm 100% satisfied with the NRA, you have to do something.
12-31-2005, 12:20 PM
OKSMLE, roger that on the state association, that's why I keep putting money on it. I was referring to what happened at Weyerhauser and Conoco-Philips. At least we got some support against the unamerican actions of coporate giants. NRA may not be all we would want it to be, but it's better than the alternative. And thank somebody for some of the mail slowing down. For awhile it was just way too much! sundog
The Nyack Kid
12-31-2005, 12:46 PM
Ditto on all of the the above . i get tired of the phone calls and the extra-mail but i do go to Friends of the NRA when i can and i do the NRA-roundup with midway ,BUT dang ,it has been a really lean year and a half for me .
I dont have alot of tallerance for people who like to complain about political issues but dont do anything to help their cause( one of my pet peves ) even a little bit helps even though it doent seem like it .
12-31-2005, 03:35 PM
Sundog .... Amen to that.
The Nyack Kid .... Amen again.
12-31-2005, 04:13 PM
Da, Tovarich Sundog--by plotting to go over Wall at earliest oppurtunity.
Wife is searching for teaching jobs in Old Country, and is about half-done with Administrative Credential program. Once she finish, over Wall we go. We snuck over Wall on Friday, into NV and AZ for brief time. Example--in Needles, gasoline is $2.89--and town is dying. In Bullhead City (AZ), 20 miles away--gas is $2.07, and the town is booming. Pipples in Needles cannot understand why everyone emigrate--is obvious, no?
01-03-2006, 06:08 AM
here's a little flavour of what gun ownership is like in the UK under the ultimate nanny stateist, Bastard Blair.
Firearms legislation is enshrined in various acts of parliament and is sorely in need of rationalising so as to make some sense of it all. The legislation has been developed not from the need to license or regulate firearms but as a series of political knee jerk reactions to gun crime.
After the Dunblane atrocity all legal handguns were banned, the fact of that mass murder was that the perpetrator had been continually recommended by firearms officers, over a period of years, to have had his Friearms certificate revoked as not being a fit person to own firearms. The Chief Constable of that force however, for reasons we can only speculate on, chose to renew Hamiltons Firearms Certificate (FAC) against the advice of his officers. It was a failure of the system that allowed Hamilton to use his handguns to kill with. Quiet properly an inquiry was set up, led by Lord Cullen, by the then Conservative government to look at the causes of the tragedy and the then Prime Minister John Major agreed that whatever the recommendations of the Cullen Enquiry might be they would be acted upon.
This was during 1996-97 and there was general election due in 1997, the Major government was tierd and running out of steam after 18 years of Tory rule. Labour was a government in waiting led by an insecure and small minded Tony Blair. He made the Dunblane tradgedy a political issue sharing platforms with the emotive anti gun Snowdrop campaign and promising to ban guns if elected, he seemed not to know that illegal guns were already banned, so the only ones that could be banned were legal ones, all this posturing and pontificating was before the Cullen findings. "I can see no reason why any rightminded person would want to own firearms" Tony Blair 1996.
Cullens report was published and because of it now being a political issue with election only a few months away the Tories did not follow its recommedations but brought in the handgun ban to try and head Blair off.
This was shoddy government which has brought parliament into disrepute, by persecuting law abiding citizens for cheap political gain. That small minded, small spirited and unstatesman like politician Tony Blair then came to power and has continued his persecution and demonising of minorites for cheap political gain with his ban it for Britain agenda, Foxhunting, Brococks, Airguns and shooting to under 18s the list goes on.
One thing he did learn from the hand gun ban was that it cost the country dear in compensation and that will never happen again. So more back door methods are being used such as health and saftey and the so called fear of terrorism to restrict the transportation and availability of shooting supplies.
However we are still shooting, rifles mainly, but you can still own and shoot Black Powder pistol, you can also shoot long barrelled pistol in any calibre and the Long Range Boys still do. There is also Section 7.3 of the Firearms Act which allows Historic Pistols pre 1915 to be kept at designated ranges, there is one here in the NE of England where I live and I keep and shoot my Webley MkVI there. You can also posses without any permissions any firearm that is deemed to be of an obsolete calibre i.e the ammunition is no longer commercially produced. Original muzzle loaders classed as antiques are also exempt if they are of the period, so I can own an 1863 2 band Enfield as an antique but if I want a Parker Hale copy then it must be on FAC. If I want to shoot my original 2 Band Enfield then I must have it entered onto my FAC.
01-03-2006, 06:09 AM
Owning firearms is still a right and provided the you can show good reason for possession and are deemed to be a fit person, no criminal record or medical reasons, self harm for instance, then you will be granted an FAC.
Reasons to possess are usually target shooting as evidenced by attendance at a licensed club, sporting use as evidenced by having suitable land to shoot over with appropriate quarry for the calibre, collecting is also a category but they are not be shot and you will not be allowed ammunition on your FAC as the certificate also states what calibre ammunition you can purchase and how much.
The interpretation of the legislation is down to each Constabulary which is the firearms licensing authority for each area. However this discretion is defined in the Home Office guidance and if you go with that then the police can do little to get in the way of legitmate shooters owning there firearms.
The other bone of contention around interpretation is the number of firearms that you can possess, again the guidance is relatively clear on this and numbers of firearms is a function of demonstrating good reason and security. Basically there are three levels of security, level 1 is basic household security lockable windows, solid doors etc including specific secure stortage for the firearms and is applicable for up to around 12 firearms, level two is as level one with the addition of a household alarm and is for up to around 30 firearms, level three requires all in two along with a monitored alarm and is for over 30. I have 30 firearms and will need to upgrade my security to level three before can go for any more variations.
In actual fact I have no fundamental probelem with firearms licensing in principle, however the emphasis needs to be shifted from licensing the firearm to licensing individual. If I am deemed a fit person to keep firearms then I should be allowed to keep anything and any number, comensurate with the risk of them falling into the wrong hands and my security.
The main problem in the UK has been that we have no national body that will fight the case for shooters against Blair and his ilks big government. Thatunfortunately is a reflection of shooters themselves as we are our own worst enemies. The rifle boys weren't bothered with the pistol ban as it didn't affect them and so it goes, however the NRA is now after 100 years starting to make the right noises and pull all the shootinh interests together, we as individuals need to support them and stop being victims.
Things could be better and they could be worse, I do miss my Colt Gold Cup, my Python, my Webleys et al but I still love my Enfields, BSAs, Greeners and the odd Mauser or two. I shoot small bore and black powder 2-4 times a week and full bore at least once a week with clays 2-3 times a month. I go north every winter to my croft and fill the freezer with game so I take what pleasure I can from that now, for tomorrow it could be gone.
Nanny state victims chanting a politically correct mantra in our own back yards are the real threats to our liberty, stay aware stay alert, stick together and use them or loose them.
More law hides bad government.
01-03-2006, 08:24 AM
Interesting posts, dromia. Found it interesting that you didn't mention the real result of the weapons ban in Britian, namely the increase in crime. From the news we get here in the States, violent crime there has increased geometrically in the last 10-12 years.
"Owning firearms is still a right and provided the you can show good reason for possession and are deemed to be a fit person, no criminal record or medical reasons, self harm for instance, then you will be granted an FAC."
The idea of what a "right" is differs considerably here in the colonies. What you describe is what we call a "privilage."
As much as we complain about our rules and regs, we sure do have it better than y'all.
01-03-2006, 08:47 AM
One of the "reasons to possess" for me is I want one,,or two,,or a dozen. Sometimes the reason is to fill a self-percieved "niche",,as in getting a 41 magnum to fill the spot in between a 357mag and a 45 colt levergun. Sometimes its simply just too cool to pass up or the price attracts me. Sometimes guns need me to adopt them to save them from being owned by a neglectful owner or to save them from being turned in to the "proper authorities" by a PC nit-wit.
my .02 :D
02-06-2006, 12:21 PM
This is a followup to my previous post in this thread. This link has probably been posted before, but Here it is again. If you have not read it in entirety, I suggest you do so. It's a good read. Maybe even send copies to the commy, pinko, bed-wettin', fag, liberal, gun banning, liberty hating members of Congress - you know who they are. Yea, alot of good that would do to know what the position of the gubmint is.... sundog
02-06-2006, 12:54 PM
First I don't want this to sound like I'm a liberal or for the anti-gun clan, because nothing could be further from the truth. It's good to hear and talk to the "other side" about the 2nd Amendment. With that said I'll tell you of a 1st cousin I have that has worked with the CIA in Nam, among other unmentionable things in Nam...been to a flew of college for a bunch of different things and ended up being a lawyer and then a Federal Judge out of Arkansas area, and now although of retirement age, is lawyering over in Australia. I think alot of him and he of I. Now he and I go around this Republic, Democrat, far left liberal, anti-gun stuff all the time through emails. Well one day I emailed him and said, you know Chuck, I wish I had been around when our forefathers wrote the Constitution and what really was their thinking. I also said that our forefathers could have never envisioned the United States today with issues like guns, abortions, gay rights, racism, etc. you know them. Well being my cousin is very prominant and has been in the upper elite Washington social circle, he told me about some of the entertainment that they go to. One is this fellow who studies, lives, breathes, eat, poops....nothing but Thomas Jefferson. In fact sometimes the guy tries to live Jeffersons life so much that he thinks he is Jefferson. He tries to put himself in Jeffersons frame of mind and thinking. Well the guy does stage shows as him as Jefferson. My cousin said it would be enlightening to meet that man and see his show and ask him all the questions I wanted about liberals, guns, abortion, etc. It's good to see the other side and see where they are coming from. I'm not talking about the everyday anti-gun far left enviromental wacko everyday pain in our sides. Too cut this short I'm not so sure that our forefathers wrote the second amendment to be interpreted as we gun lovers interpret it. No my cousin didn't change my mind, but to be honest NOBODY would really know without having been there when they wrote...and that of course is impossible until I fully finish my time machine. Felix some help on that time machine by the way. I believe Einstein was kicking on the heels of it. Back to topic. It's agrravating to not know the exact truth, but I do know we are doomed if they take our guns entirely and that in itself may be the answer as to what was meant when the 2nd amendment was written.
02-06-2006, 01:54 PM
When it gets right down to it, I don't suppose it matters much what us "gun guys" think. In the not too distant future, only the opinion of SCOTUS will matter.
Just to show how dumb I am, I read the part that says, "... shall not be infringed," and think it means just that. I guess I must be pretty stupid. Maybe that's why they don't teach the Constitution or Declaration of Independence in public schools anymore? Kids these days are too dumb to understand the words?
02-06-2006, 02:35 PM
It is sad to see that general opinion against firearms is mostly negative. It is often created by shock media. Those exaggerated "documents" like Bowling for Columbine etc. are many times all that JohnDoe know about firearms. I am 23 years old and I was raised in countryside where it was natural to hunt animals for meat. Of course then you got used to guns. But for example when I take a new gun (in a bag) to police station to be checked for s/n, I got stared like I was going to commit a massacre. People just have the conception that everyone who posess a firearm is twisted somehow.
I mostly agree with Finnish licence system. Finn45 explained the finnish system earlier on this thread. Altought it could be more standardized, it prevents people having mental issues and violent history to get guns LEGALLY.
It doesn´t completely stop armed crimes as if burglar wants a gun he usually gets one.
02-06-2006, 03:03 PM
Well. I don't know about Jefferson as he made a number of different statements at different times. But the Federalists (promoters of the Constitution) in general and James Madison in particular leave no question about what they meant about firearms ownership by the peopel at the time. They believed that a free armed populace was a necessity to the Republic.
02-06-2006, 06:24 PM
I'd rather be a gun nut, determined to keep my guns, than an anti-gunner determined to take them. Seems there may be a longetivity issue involved. And, my guess is, the guys with the most toys, wins!
02-07-2006, 12:01 AM
Here in loosiana you can buy rifles, shotguns and handguns at gun shows and dealers. Dealer has to make phone call and furnish make, model, caliber, your name, address. If sale is approved you pay him and take your new toy home. CCW you attend mandatory course which runs about $100. Fill out application, two passport phots and if I remember correctly $100. Then you do mandatory range qualifiying which consists of about 30 shots.
CCW is good for 4 years and you have to requalify prior to renewal, person doing the qualifiying signs off on form that has to be sent along with renewal fee photos and form.
No carrying in bars, churches, gov't buildings. If in restaurant that serves adult beverages
and you are seated at restaurant in dining area you're ok, but not allowed at bar itself. There are some stores that will post no concealed weapons. Not allowed to carry in hospitals either. Loosiana is also a class three state. I have seen, M-60, M-16, M-14 and ma duce being fired. Thats about it. Way easier than when I lived in NYC.And Long Island.
02-08-2006, 04:30 AM
I live in Texas and it is gun friendly down here. Plenty of places to buy all types of guns. There is no waiting period, limits or any of that other stuff. There is the mandatory Federal background check, but if you have a Concealed Hangun License there is no background check.
With the exception of a few places like schools and courthouses, etc, you can carry a rifle or shotgun loaded or unloaded anywhere you want to go, in your car or in your hand.
The handgun laws are somewhat tighter. You can carry on your property, your place of business or for sporting purposes. You can now have a handgun in your car.
Texas has had a "shall issue" Concealed Hangun License for about 9 years and it is not much hastle to get one. There is a day long course and range qualification with the figerprint things, but no big thing. I am coming up on the third renewal of mine. Caliber must be .380 ACP or greater for the shooting part, but you can carry anything you want.
You can hunt with either rifle, shotgun or handgun. For deer you must use a "centerfire" round.
Hunting licenses can be purchased many places including many convenience stores.
Texas is a good place to live, work, raise a family and shoot. What laws we have and not unreasonable and LEOs tend to be gun friendly and not go squirrely in the presence a gun not their own. They pretty much assume everybody has one or two around somewhere.
01-05-2013, 05:28 AM
Ok, new member here but I stumbled on this thread and figured it was a good one to resurrect.
I'm from the People's Republic of WESTERN Massachusetts. And yes, there is a huge difference between us and Eastern MA.
Until 1998, our gun laws were pretty much non-existent. I really never understood the negative, anti-gun things I heard about MA before then. Yes, we needed a permit to buy or carry a gun, but that was it. Before the '94 AWB, there were no restrictions on anything.
Until 1998, you could get your FID Card at the age of 15 which allowed you to carry any long gun, regardless of type or capacity, but under Federal law, you could not purchase a long gun or ammo until you were 18. The FID Card was $15 and was "Valid Until Suspended or Revoked". Basically, it was a lifetime issue.
Until 1998, you could get your LTC (Pistol Permit) at the age of 18, which allowed you to carry a concealed handgun. But again, under Federal law, you could not purchase a handgun or ammo until you were 21. An LTC cost $25 and was valid for five years.
Before 1998, the only restriction on NFA ownership was no supressors. It is still mostly like that, but I'll get into the details in the "Post 1998" part of this post. Machinegun ownership required a MA "Green Card" and cost $25. It was valid for five years. No additional licenses were needed for other NFA items.
I got my FID at 15 and have had my LTC since I was 18. I have heard that some Police Chiefs in Eastern MA were anti-gun and would not issue permits, but it was never like that I Western MA.
Then 1998 came around and the good times ended........
There are two FID Cards. The first is a Restricted FID, valid for only Pepper Spray. Very few of these are even issued.
Now, you cannot get your FID until you are 18. And an FID is only good for "non-Large Capacity" rifles and shotguns.
There are now two classes of LTCs in MA:
Class B- Large Capacity long guns and non-Large Capacity handguns. Restricted to no concealed carry.
Class A- everything an FID and Class B allows with the addition of Large Capacity handguns and concealed carry is allowed, unless restricted by your police chief.
There is now an education requirement for obtaining everything but a Restricted FID Card. Classes are easily found and there is a long list of accepted courses. The course must be taught by a MA State Police Certified Instructor. All this requires is you are an instructor in an accepted course and you pay the fee to become an MSP instructor.
After the 1994 Federal AWB expired, MA was kind enough to bend us over and make it permanent. So the whole "Pre-Ban" and"Post-Ban" thing is still happening here. If your "evil black rifle" has evil features, like a flash hider/threaded muzzle, bayonet lug or collapsible/folding stock, it must have been manufactured on or before 9/13/1994. Same goes for any magazine which holds more than 10 rounds.
This is where is gets crazy. If someone is in possession of a "Large Capacity Feeding Device", ammunition or ANY COMPONENT OF AMMUNITION without the correct permit, it holds the same penalty as possession of a handgun without a permit! So a simple spent .22 shell casing in your vehicle without at least an FID card is a 10-year felony!
Then there's the handgun laws:
In this state, the AG does have the power to create laws and completely bypass the State Legislature, only if it is for "Consumer Safety". Most of the handgun laws MA has on the books were passed by AG Scott Harshbarger as a "Consumer Protection Act" and the Legislature had absolutely nothing to do with it.
The Legislature passed some laws, similar to CA, pertaining to handguns. It included testing by an independent lab, like CA and any handgun which passed the testing was added to "The List" and was supposed to be made available for sale in MA. The list can be seen here (http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approved-weapons-roster-4-2012.pdf) if you are interested. But, do you know what that list means to the average consumer? Nothing, because being on the "Approved Handgun Roster" doesn't mean they are "approved" for sale in MA. Now this is where it gets screwed up.
AG Scott Harshbarger decided that the list did not ban enough, or any in reality, handguns, because, contrary to what the anti-gun politicians would have you believe, most handguns are safe, well built pieces of equipment which will easily pass the safety testing. Since he wanted to ban more handguns, Harshbarger decided that the public of MA was in danger, so he bypassed the State Legislature and passed a Consumer Protection Act pertaining to handguns. He added three more standards, which must be met by any handgun made after 10/21/1998. So after the DPS testing and approval the three additional AG standards are:
1- Semi-auto handguns must have either a loaded chamber indicator OR a magazine disconnect.
2- All handguns must have a second, tamper proof serial number on the frame (wow, that one makes the handguns a lot safer, huh?)
3- Handguns cannot be capable of being fired by the average child of five years. To accomplish this, a trigger pull of at least 10 pounds or a grip diameter which is too large for the child to get their hands around is recommended. That's why you can only buy a S&W 22A pistol with the wooden target grips and not the standard grips for example.
Now for the best part. Go online and find a list of handguns which meets the AG's standards. Can't find one? That's because there isn't one! The AG's office, and I quote their response to me said they "Leave it up to the manufacturer to comply with the AG standards." What is usually done is a manufacturer will outline in detail how they feel their handguns meet the AG's requirements, after the handgun has already passed the Department of Public Safety testing and has been added to "The List". They wait for 60 days for a response, and in this case, no news is good news. After 60 days with no response, it is generally accepted that it is legal to sell in MA. But since the AG's office doesn't actually "approve" any handguns, they can change their position on a certain handgun at any time. That is what happened to Glock, and why Glock has decided to no longer attempt to gain approval to sell their products on MA. Unfortunately by doing this, the AG's office won.
Glock, as you can see on the Approved Handgun Roster submitted three of every model Glock for "Testing until Destruction" for the so-called "safety" testing, and gained DPS approval. In order to comply with the AG's standards, they added a second serial number lazered into a frame rail. One standard met. They then added their NY-2 disconnector and trigger spring, bringing the trigger pull up to 10+ pounds. Another standard met. Obviously not wanting to redesign their handgun in order to add a magazine disconnect, a feature that most Glock owners would not want anyway, the engineers simply redesigned the extractor, like many other companies have in the past, so a nub will stick out alerting the shooter that there is a round in the chamber. Third and final standard met, or so they thought.
Glock waited the customary 60 days, didn't hear anything, and began distributing their handguns to dealers in MA, with the letter every manufacturer sends to every gunshop in MA, stating that Glocks are now available. Needless to say, after not being able to buy Glocks for years, there was an absolute feeding frenzy statewide. Not long after, since the AG at the time always had a hair across his *** about Glocks, he sent a letter to Glock informing them that the features of their loaded chamber indicator does not comply with his standards. He would not say why, just that they had to redesign the LCI and submit the new specs. Oh, and while they were at it, Glock was required to contact every MA resident who purchased a Glock and offer them a full refund. I have yet to hear of a single individual who accepted the refund, but it was offered. See, in MA, the handgun laws are targeted solely at the licensed dealer who sells or transfers a non-compliant handgun. It is completely legal to own, possess, or sell as a private sale, a non-compliant handgun, as long as you are not a licensed dealer. The laws have only one purpose- target and financially destroy gun dealers.
Now for NFA. Overall, not a lot has changed. As long as your Police Chief is willing to issue you a Green Card (License to possess a Machinegun), you can purchase any transferrable machinegun in the country. Just jump through the Federal hoops and it's yours. Mine was a C&R eligible Reising, and Dave the Mailman dropped it off at my house.
Short Barrelled Rifles are also OK. No additional licensing is needed other than a Class B LTC and the Federal requirements.
AOWs are also legal, with the new requirement that they are not "Covert Weapons". Basically, they must look like a firearm. No pen guns or anything like that.
Short barrelled shotguns are only legal if they came from the original manufacturer is that configuration. Anything else is illegal as a "Sawed Off Shotgun". So, you can buy a factory 14" Mossberg 590, but it's illegal to fill out an ATF Form 1 and cut an existing Mossberg down to 14". Makes sense, huh?
Still, like VT and NY, no Supressors.
There is also a Safe Storage requirement in a home and vehicle. Honestly, as responsible gun owners, I feel this should be part of our responsibility without the need for a law anyway, but we have it here. Anytime a firearm is not in use, it must be unloaded and in a locked container or have a trigger lock installed while in a home. In a vehicle, it must be unloaded and in a locked container or trunk. A trigger lock means nothing while in a vehicle unattended.
Now for the "in use" part of that. Personal protection is considered "in use". So you can keep a loaded firearm unlocked while you sleep at night, providing it is in the same room as you. Technically, per the letter of the law, you wake up in the middle of the night to take a leak, you are legally required to either unload and lock it up or take it with you. In a vehicle, with a Class A permit, you can have a loaded handgun for protection as long as it is "under your direct control". Basically, if there are other people in the vehicle, keep it on you. If you are alone, keep it within reach while seated in the driver's seat.
I'm not in favor of any laws being shoved down our throats, but I do feel that safely storing our firearms is our responsibility as law abiding, responsible gun owners, to keep them out of the hands of children or criminals. I know I have kept all of my firearms not "in use" locked in safes long before I was told I had to do so.
Hunting licenses have an education requirement. Either the Hunter's Safety Course or the class you took for your permit. If you are like me and was grandfathered having a hunting license and permits before the requirements, you just need to show a copy of a previous hunting license. Now, hunting licenses are available online and it is just an honor system. You need to check a box saying you either have had a hunting license or you meet the education requirement.
So, back in the Good Old Days, MA was as freedom loving as most other states and didn't deserve the reputation it had. But since 1998, it deserves everything anyone says about it and I can't wait to leave.
Only three more years and my daughter is done with school. Then it's off to NH, unless another Federal law is passed and we all have to live under rules like this.
As I type this, I have a Glock 17 with "pre-ban" mags on my hip and I'm meeting my friends later today to shoot our machineguns. I'll bet that just threw half of the people from Eastern MA into a panic attack
01-07-2013, 06:55 PM
Amazingly old thread!
In Kansas there are no state laws that apply to my guns other than needing a
concealed carry permit (shall issue). Open carry is NOT common, but the
state Attorney General has issued an opinion that cities may regulate the
MANNER (in a holster, with safety on, similar) of open carry, but NOT
prohibit it. The east KS cities are freaking out, but several have just decided
to stop fighting it. I have not yet tried open carry, personally, would not
think it is as good as CCW, don't want a bad guy to know I am armed
until I want him to know, if and when. Without a CCW guns in a car must
be cased and unloaded.
I can own any number or type of pistols or rifles, military semiautos are not
restricted at all - Obama is making noises about "fixing" this. I can buy and
possess any amount of ammo, magazines,etc. Private sales are no more
complex than buying a hammer or wrench. Money, gun, done.
So basically, the state is not regulating guns at all except CCW and carrying
in a car.
Federal law requires an instant background check when buying from a dealer, but
this is waived by my CCW permit. Machine guns and silencers are contolled under
Federal law, 6 month background check, MGs are super expensive, not so much for
suppressors, but not sane like the rest of the world. Short barreled rifles and
shotguns are restricted, but less than MGs and suppressors. Adding a buttstock
to a pistol (like Luger carbines) is some sort of big Federal deal, not exactly
sure what, but not legal without some paperwork.
01-08-2013, 07:25 AM
Actually, MGs, SBRs, SBSs, AOWs and suppressors are all Federally regulated the same. You need to fill out a Form 4 if you are buying one already in existence, or on the case of anything but a MG, a Form 1 if you are making your own, by cutting a barrel shorter than 18" on a shotgun or 16" on a rifle or with an OAL less than 26" on either, or by adding a buttstock to a pistol.
Federally, it's all the same. Same background check, same paperwork, and unfortunately, the same 6+ month wait!
01-08-2013, 09:35 AM
Texas made a positive change in their laws regarding handguns in automobiles a few years ago. Some of the Texas laws are far more restrictive than the average person who doesn't live there might think. I've lived in Texas most of my life and now live just a few miles into New Mexico and still go to Texas several times a month.
The original law permitted carrying a handgun in your vehicle when traveling, participating in a sporting event including hunting and fishing, going to and from a range and to/from a gun store or gunsmith. Although there was a generally accepted definition of travelling, there was no official state sanctioned legal definition of travelling. The generally accepted definition called for crossing two county lines and having with you items that would be required for an overnight stay.
Somewhere along the way, possibly in the early '80s, "travelling" was changed from an exemption from proscecution to a defense to proscecution. You could be arrested for carrying as provided in the law and use your activity as a defense. WHOOPEE! The arrest was at the descretion of the officer and the proscecution was at the descretion of the district attorney.
In 2007, recognizing the failures and limitations of the existing law, the legislature completely changed the laws regarding firearms in vehicles. The new law permits anyone who can legally own a firearm to carry a concealed handgun in an automobile. It's a violation of the gun is not fully concealed.
01-08-2013, 10:17 AM
Here goes Denmark.
You need to take a 40hour course and pass 3 exams to get a hunting license.
A written exam containing 40 questions with a max of 4 errors.
A combined exam of distance judgement and gunsafetey (how to cross a creek safely and shoot 5 shots complying to all saftey rules).
It costs 540dkr~$95 a year and is mandatory for having hunting guns.
When you have it you can buy shotguns. Min. barrel length 55cm~22". Max. 2 cartridges in any shotgun.
You just report the buy to the police.
For rifles you need to pass a shooting test (5 out of 6 shots within 20cm~8" at 100m~110yds).
You buy the rifle and goes to the police to get a special permission for it. The first license costs 840kr~$140 for 10 yrs.
Next license costs 420kr~$80 for 10 yrs. With license in hand you collect the rifle ast the dealer.
Semiautos are a big no-no
Silencers are a big no-no
No limit on bore/caliber and no min. barrel length. Min. rifle length is 60cm~24". Folding stocks are a greay area.
Member of a club for 2 full years before you can get a license for a handgun. And that only gives you the right to transport the handgun to and from the range and storing it at home.
Umpteen rules regarding barrel length and psycial size, severly limiting choice.
Caliber no bigger than .32 nitro unless you are member of a BP club then standard BP calibers are allowed, but only with BP!
License costs 210kr~$40 for 5 yrs.
End membership = sell gun.
If you have a conviction for violense or weapons, you have to wait minimum 5 years after the sentense to apply again for weapons. In the end it is the local police chief that determins if you can have guns again. Repeaters are scratched from the list pretty fast.
Regarding storing guns:
One or more safes weinging under a ton may store max. 25 weapons of wich 10 can be (max. danger) handguns.
In the higher saftey class we talk safes over a ton or a concrete box with approved door (and alarm straight to an approved saftey firm). No limit on guns.
Guns made before 1870 and wich are not loaded with a cartridge can be hung on the wall without any problems (it is regarded as an antique).
01-08-2013, 12:43 PM
THE INVINCIBLE EMPIRE OF ILLINOIS and ALL MIGHTY CREATOR THE CITY OF CHICAGO
we live 60 miles south of the Mighty CREATOR CITY OF CHICAGO.
We being my family of four, live in a rural environment along the Kankakee river,outside a small town. My 7yr old GIRL got into MAJOR trouble for pointing her fingers and shooting the boy that shoved her in line !!
The local gun shows now have a requirement that only dealers can purchase firearms from those who troll the gun shows with a firearm to sell. My wife was asked not to wear a t shirt to work that displayed some guns on it.
IN THE EMPIRE we have to have what is called [I]FIREARMS OWNERS IDENTIFICATION CARD[I] more commonly called an FOID we don't register guns in the EMPIRE we register OWNERS but Chicago you are now allowed to have A ( 1 ) handgun in your home for self defense ( in your home is the key wording not garage not porch not patio )
last month the FEDERAL courts have given Illinois -180 days to come up with a concealed carry plan. recently we put down a plot to Make all assault rifles banned - all large capacity mags banned and 75% of the handguns banned this included a 180 days to turn them in or face confiscation
WELCOME TO MY WORLD
01-08-2013, 04:04 PM
This thread makes me so happy to live in california. Some other states (NY! IL! MA!) are absolutely draconian. Some European countries simply make ownership a rich man's dream. California only has a rinky-dink AWB and long waiting period.
Things north of the flatland and cheddar curtain things have improved since 06 in some ways.(Wisconsin for non midwesterners)
We got CCW since then. At the present you need to have hunters ed. or a 4Hr. class plus pass the usual background check.
We have always had open carry, but in the past municipalities have played their own games with that.
Our A.G. published a letter to clarify things for those opposed to the open carry law.
I also prefer concealed to please shoot me first.
We still have some "pre-plowed killing zones", schools and other posted zones.
It is a forfeiture($) for CCW in posted private properties but you can sue them if you or yours get hurt while in their zone because you were not allowed to protect yourself.
One can however now have their CCW in their automobile in these zones which was prohibited before.
Open carry is still 100% prohibited in these zones.
The castle doctrine also passed here since 06.
No restrictions on how many of any type of firearm yet, other than you must jump through all the hoops for NFA stuff.
It is however illegal to have an "automatic knife" here even with a CCW. Go figure.
For hunting you must have a hunter ed class if you were born after 1972? I think.
No full autos are allowed for hunting, cans are but you better have your ducks in a row.
Handguns used for hunting here need to have at least 5.5" from the firing pin to the muzzle.
Also for hunting you need to check the Regs. for what you can use when and where, plus local ordinances(the city I live in you can hunt and shoot in some areas but not others).
CCW is allowed while hunting but you better not pull it out unless you really need it.
01-08-2013, 05:38 PM
Tennessee is a firearm owners dream compared to the other states listed! No restrictions on any type of firearm purchase other than Federal background check or NFA check, and NO waiting period! Machine guns, cans and other NFA weapons are legal with proper FEDERAL paperwork. (NO state restrictions) No restriction an ammo purchases or how much you can own other than you must be 18 yrs old to buy. Tennessee is a shall issue CCW state. An 8 hour class, a written exam and a 50 round proficency test qualifies you for a CCW permit. $150 for the class, fingerprinting and background check. Renewals are $50 for 5 years AND Tennessee recognizes CCW permits issued by other states that recognize our permits. Cities and Counties are forbidden by law from imposing their own restrictions on firearms. We have the castle doctrine in full effect and perps are forbidden from sueing if a shooting is ruled justifiable. No guns in schools, courthouses, post offices or other posted place,(we're working to change that) but bars, churches, hospitals ETC are OK IF they are not posted. The best part is the more they loosen our firearm laws the lower murder and other violent crime occurances go!
01-09-2013, 08:03 AM
This thread makes me so happy to live in california. Some other states (NY! IL! MA!) are absolutely draconian. Some European countries simply make ownership a rich man's dream. California only has a rinky-dink AWB and long waiting period.
CA is better than MA? Yes, we are restricted what handguns we can buy FROM A DEALER, but there are completely legal ways to get "non-compliant" handguns in state. See, the laws only pertain to licensed dealers. Privately, you can own, buy or sell any handgun you want.
NFA? Most other than supressors are legal.
Unlike CA, if you own a so-called "Assault Weapon", ownership does not pop up on a police computer if your address is entered. Pre-ban full cap mags are legal. Oh, and your CA "Bullet Button" thing so you can have a detachable 10-round mag in your AR. That sure sounds like fun!
I went to the club with friends on Sunday. We shot our Glocks, all of which hold more than 10 rounds in the mag, I brought my 14" Mossberg 590, but only two of my SBRs.
Not trying to be sarcastic, but I can't see how someone who lives under CA gun laws could actually call MA gun laws worse! Yes, MA gun laws suck but I can't think of very many things I would want that I can't own here. An SBS'd SxS 12ga is one, but I certainly don't see me being able to get one if I moved to CA, either. He'll, if I did move there I couldn't bring very many of my guns there legally.
01-09-2013, 08:28 AM
In NH you need $ and a pen to buy from a dealer. Fill out the 4473 and walk away.
No NFA restrictions.
CCW is shall issue. $10 for 4 years.
Live Free Or Die
Texas : we can now hunt with silencers . http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2012/03/30/you-can-now-hunt-with-a-silencer-in-texas/
Texas: I can drive down I-10 from Kerr county to El paso ( some 500 miles ) with speed limit posted 80 mph, with no toll , with a loaded handgun in car with no permit .
Texas: no state income tax .
These are a few thangs ...
01-12-2013, 03:56 AM
I see you are from New Hampshire, a relatively gun friendly state. I used to live below in the Kommonwealth of Mass. Most unfriendly place to be in the firearms business and a gun owner. Your local Chief of Police has the power to grant firearms permits. Live in a town that has a Liberal, anti-gun Chief, and you are doomed. Gun shops won't show a gun unless you produce a permit. Can't buy powder without a permit to store it. No hunting on Sunday. Moved to Arizona 13 years ago. Now I am a free man. 2 states in the USA, but like 2 different Countries.
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