HF cement mixer for wet tumbler

[beechbum444]

Evening, I'm curious if anyone besides me is curious if a HF cement mixer would work as a wet tumbler. Ironically, they FA wet tumbler and a HF cement mixer are about the same price, but the cement mixer is a lot bigger......thoughts....

[rancher1913]

I got a similar one from a local store and as long as you don't overload them they do fine. easy to dump out too.

[RogerDat]

I seem to recall a member using a cement mixer for pin tumbling brass. Need the room, ability to drain without losing a bunch of pins, and of course the need to do that volume of brass. The FART can handle a pretty good volume of brass in a convenient size, the cement mixer would handle a whole lot of brass in a batch and might do a batch in less time due to more tumbling action. Seem to also recall cement mixer for rinsing berm mined lead to remove the dirt.

Don't forget brass needs to be same diameter to avoid cases inside cases, especially annoying if wedged by pins. Not enough to have hundreds of cases, need to have hundreds in same size to make the larger batch work well.

[Guesser]

I knew a commercial reloader that used an old cement mixer to clean the used cases he bought from anywhere he could find them. That was almost 30 years ago, before the Y2K crunch changed the ammo market. He didn't really go for shiny, just clean.

[MUSTANG]

1. I use a 3 & 1/2 cubic Harbor Freight Cement Tumbler to tumble brass - but I dry Tumble in it using Corn Cob media. Have not used Stainless Pins and liquid tumbling in it.

2. I bought a 1 & 1/4 cubic Harbor Freight Cement Tumbler, and left it in the box for 2 years until I was ready to use for tumbling brass (was going to revert the Mixer in #1 above to cement use). Assembled the unit, put some brass and corn cob media in it, and 5 minuted later the motor burned up. Replacement motor was more than a new HF cement mixer on sale; so it is still in the reloading shed waiting on locating a cheap motor.

3. For Stainless Pin & Liquid media; I use the HF Rock Tumbler:

https://www.harborfreight.com/dual-drum-rotary-rock-tumbler-67632.html

Works well; but the Stainless Pins also abrade the Rubber Drums resulting in Black Water and some discoloration (not completely cleaned and shiny). For this reason I use a 3inch PVC pipe as my drum with this unit. Works well, but quantity is far less than in the Cement Mixer obviously.

[jdfoxinc]

Mustang, look at a motor for an evaporative cooler squirrel cadge fan. Might have to bubba the control panel mounting.

I was tumbling a batch of Lee 000 and 00 buck shot yesterday in my 1.25 cu ft mixer. It rained so it turned into a wet tumbler.

[sniper]

Jerry(?) Miculek has a Youtube video....and that's exactly what he uses, then dries the tumbled brass in an old electric range oven. Of course, he shoots more in a year than most of us will in a lifetime!

[kevin c]

I've heard that the case mouths can get peened over by the metal mixer blades. How to prevent that? Coat the interior of the drum? Use a plastic bucket as an insert (it'll need its own blades I think)?

I can tumble ten or eleven pounds of brass and enough water to cover it all in my FART (I don't use the pins). No apparent strain on the motor at all. What is the practical capacity of the large and small HF mixers?

[JimB..]

A whole different price point, but the larger STM unit is quiet, reliable, and able to clean a 50cal ammo can or full MFRB of brass in a couple hours. Only downside is that draining and separating requires lifting and tipping the full drum.

[kevin c]

Jerry(?) Miculek has a Youtube video....and that's exactly what he uses, then dries the tumbled brass in an old electric range oven. Of course, he shoots more in a year than most of us will in a lifetime!

I just looked at that video. He certainly does have a high volume operation just for personal use. He also seems to use the mixer for initial cleaning, and then tumbles in dry media after oven drying the mixer cleaned brass.

I basically wanted to get away from dry media tumbling and the dust it generates. So far wet tumbling in water with citric acid and combination car wash and wax does it all in one 90 minute run. What comes out of the FART gets a few rinses in tap water, a few turns in the FA media separator to shake out most of the water, and gets air dried in the sun. Just need to figure out how to scale up to the cement mixer for the large amount of brass my club wants to process.

[bpatterson84]

Guys, all you have to do to retain your pins is dump onto a bedsheet, makes it real easy!

[Mr. Woodchuck]

I use a 5 gal.paint strainer over a large plastic colander from Walmart to dump my brass and pins in after cleaning in the Frankford Arsenal Tumbler. I rinse the brass and pins in the colander with cold water in utility sink. Then I dump the pins and brass into the Frankford arsenal media's separator, spin the pins out into the separator water reservoir. Works great and I can do 1000 9mm at a time.

[fredj338]

My buddy does exactly that. He fit a 5ga; bucket to the inside of his cheap cement mixer & does like 8k a pop. He has a solid lid & a slotted lid. When done, replace with slotted lid & all the pins come out.

[woodbutcher]

[smilie=s: Hi MUSTANG.Look for an electric motor from a junked washing machine.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Traffer]

For the roughly the same volume several people have used tread mills with 5 gal buckets on them. You can weld up bars across the track with a 5 gal bucket in front of each bar. Used tread mills can be gotten cheap even free if you hunt.
https://youtu.be/6P9xfO0WYv8
https://youtu.be/MfS_Ks17n3U
https://youtu.be/kd7rUjRtsqo

[MOA]

I use a 5 gal.paint strainer over a large plastic colander from Walmart to dump my brass and pins in after cleaning in the Frankford Arsenal Tumbler. I rinse the brass and pins in the colander with cold water in utility sink. Then I dump the pins and brass into the Frankford arsenal media's separator, spin the pins out into the separator water reservoir. Works great and I can do 1000 9mm at a time.

This is my Wal Mart special, got it for less than ten bucks, works great. Been using same pieces for about 5 years now, holding up good. I dry my pins in the oven at night, turn it up to 250 and put the pins in and close the door, and turn oven off. In the morning all are dry and they go back into the plastic tupperware. The brass I dry inside a king size cotton pillow case. Drop them in hold onto the ends and roll them back and forth until most are dry maybe thirty seconds and then on to a few towels under the ceiling fan in the bedroom to air dry for a few hours. Easy Peazy.

https://s19.postimg.cc/y9h75ec1v/20150219_145436.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/ermjpgf3z/)


https://s19.postimg.cc/bes37ypoj/20150329_103324.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/4oblyj2in/)

https://s19.postimg.cc/z7k8lu26b/20151211_141414.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/9c0i2n0cf/)

https://s19.postimg.cc/mrs45ty83/20151211_142210.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/kagcykebj/)


https://s19.postimg.cc/6835rp6rn/20150214_152342.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/nldg6k22n/)

[Echo]

I basically wanted to get away from dry media tumbling and the dust it generates. .

Throw a used dryer sheet in with the dry tumbler. Catches all the dust...

[jaysouth]

Jerry(?) Miculek has a Youtube video....and that's exactly what he uses, then dries the tumbled brass in an old electric range oven. Of course, he shoots more in a year than most of us will in a lifetime!

Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5y_dsP3dsM

[kevin c]

Throw a used dryer sheet in with the dry tumbler. Catches all the dust...

I did, actually one and a half or two, cut into strips. That reduced the dust but didn't eliminate it. May be that I tumble too long ( a couple hours), but i like the brass shiny (yes, I know it doesn't make any difference to the round, but that's what I like).

[jdfoxinc]

Add a tablespoon of mineral spirits to the dryer sheet. It really helps.

[kevin c]

That's something to consider if I go back to the dry tumbling smaller volumes of brass, thanks!

Sorry for the hijack. Back to the mixer. Jerry Miculek said in his vid that he'd do a five gallon bucket of brass along with the same amount of water in what looks like the full sized mixer. I assume proportionally less for the smaller.

The work area at my club for the brass cleaning (also for cleaning up and ingotting scrap lead and for other casting) is just about done - pavers over gravel for drainage. Turned out nice. Maybe too nice - the club chairman thinks it would make a great place for a couple picnic tables and a grill. Sacrilege! Almost as bad as turning open land into a golf course instead of a rifle range.

[mold maker]

Use care adding the MS as you can create an explosive atmosphere, in an enclosed space, compleat with static electricity. Also, too much can cause the dirt to stick to the brass like specks of hard wax, which is extremely hard to remove. I add a squirt of water to help keep the dust to a minimum and used dryer sheets to collect dirt.

[salpal48]

i have used a Cement mixer to polish. I was polishing 38 special brass. appox 2 5 gal pails. If the brass does not have a good support . Your brass will be ruined quickly. . Wet tumble will not work well because the brass sits @the botton and crashes into the blades . The best support I found was Hardwood sawdust. the brass mixed well and polished well. The nightmare was in the separation.

[JeepHammer]

I don't confuse CLEANING with POLISHING or COATINGS.

Wash first, removes oily crud, loose carbon, mud, rocks & anything else that rode in on the brass.
If it's really nasty, (tarnished/corroded, full of dirt/mud) I hit the initial cleaning with stainless pins/chips and maybe acid.

Then I polish, corn cob or walnut shell.
Both are proven and both can be screened/washed if you DO NOT address coatings.

If the customer wants, I can add coatings. Waxes are common.
I apply coatings with sponges. This keeps coatings out of the powder cavity and seriously un-complicates things.
Wax left in the drum comes out when the next wash happens.

----

Lowes has a plastic drum mixer for $300 USD.
Metal drum supports inside, split heater hose down the side & nylon zip tie on the edges of the blades, or replace with hardwood if you use infrequently and/or have rust issues.

You are looking at 10 gallons of brass maximum in this mixer.
For $300 it's a tough plastic drum, gear box, motor and drum supported on rollers.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-4-cu-ft-0-5-HP-Cement-Mixer/3591096

Many large vibratory & ultrasonic cleaner run $300 and can't do the volume, or cut time like a wet bath cleaning will.

Grease cutting detergent to clean the oil crud off, flush the brass (or separate pins/chips if that's your thing), and throw DAMP (not soaking wet) brass right back in the mixer with corn cob or walnut polish media.
DAMP brass will be dried by the media while it's getting polished.

This breaks down the process, WASHING/CLEANING brass BEFORE you plug up your polishing media with the carbon & oily gunk, media lasts MUCH longer this way.

----

Anything under 5 gallon bucket size (brass, water, pins, polishing media, all combined volume),
A heavy duty kitchen mixer has speed control, motor, gear reduction drive and is easy to turn a small volume container.
The frame is basically 2"x4" wood, a set of skate board wheels/axles (which have roller bearings) and your mixer drive.

-----

YouTube is full of home made separators that do larger volume.
The biggest mistake I see is not mounting the separator drum up high enough to get a common container under it.
I use the longer 'Rubber Maid' tubs since they are short, long, cheap, light (you are picking up off the floor), and when one fails it's no big deal, and they are still small enough for one man to manage alone.

This all depends on *IF* you possess the skills for rough carpentry.
No matter what tumbler you use, it will take a separator large enough to catch & separate the entire batch, and once you get more than about a gallon of brass, the consumer hand crank options run out pretty quickly.

I have the wife watch the thrift stores, yard sales, etc for skate boards & old mixers (larger battery powered tools, but that's a different story) and old angle iron bed frames.
That angle iron is wonderful for small frame projects, the mixers skate board axes & wheels are obvious.
The speed controller & motor from tread mills works pretty good, but it's a little more complicated wiring and many guys stay away from wiring...

Old battery powered tools are an 'Off Grid' option.
Dead batteries are usually the problem, and you simply add a cord with a couple battery clamps.
A drum sifter & rather large drill motor is how I separate range lead from dirt/sand/rocks when I'm cleaning out bullet traps.
Ironically, it's on an old cement mixer frame that's low to the ground.
Shovel dirt in, move it over the hole you just made & flip it on, the dirt goes right back in the hole you just made.
My vehicle battery powers the unit with a cord & battery clamps.

[35isit]

Buy the media separator if you are doing less than mixer loads. I fought using kitchen utensils for a few years. Bought a used one for separating pins. Never looking back.

[JeepHammer]

My separator is simply expanded metal with wood (painted) ends, wood funnel into tub underneath.
The funnel supports the common pipe axle.
I put media in nylon 'Dry Cleaning' bags when I need to sift or wash it.
Window screen over the tub lets the media air dry when it's spread out a little.

I started hand cranked, but found a reduction gear motor which I added later.

It will swallow a FULL mixer of brass/pins/media, the 'Trick' to screening being surface area it works very quickly.
The first drum was 6 sided, but an 8 sided screener makes for a more compact assembly and the drum will rotate with the lid open.

[Grmps]

I did this with 2 gal buckets can do 1100 pcs 44 S&W at a time, find biggest wiper motor and support the front and back so the motor is only turning the buckets(I didn't do this and the motor gets warm so I use a fan on it)
4 nylon adjutators screwed in
7# pins
<2 gal brass de-caped
almost full hot water
1 tsp citric acid
3 squirts dawn
2 hours clean
rinse well,
media separator remove water
soak in carwash/wax 1 min
rinse
media separator remove water
roll on a towel to dry exterior (to prevent water spots)
put in dehydrator for 2 hrs
You could do this with a 5 gallon in a cement mixer just proportionally increase the sizes or directly in the mixer
I've seen (somewhere) where they removed the metal "fins" out of a cement mixer and used nylon ones. If the metal mixer is to rough on the brass you could get it rhino coated like PU beds
Food dehydrator https://i.imgur.com/BgTBDPR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xoElmDg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/23k6e2s.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HpN690g.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nSvbl0v.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8uRFzFY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/H6IFXqH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jvrq5jm.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MchjmCIvzlY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4skIIRlFeQw

[andre3k]

http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/4421-brass-monkey-that-funky-monkey/

[kevin c]

First run done with the HF small cement mixer.

20# single caliber brass, couple tablespoons of Lemishine, three tablespoons of wash and wax, enough water to cover. No pins (I just tried the pins with my FART and I and going to skip them in the future, trading more brass per run and less hassle for the sparkling interiors and clean primer pockets). We assembled the mixer with one of the two metal blades that came with the mixer - the guy who wanted to clean his brass didn't want to wait to rig up new nonmetallic blades or to coat the originals. Cranked her up for just a short run under an hour because we were doing this while shooting a match.

The motor strained a bit, with the drum slowing just a little on each rotation when the single blade lifted the brass. We'll probably have to tweak the recipe a bit; mebbe less brass and probably less car wash, as we spilled a lot of suds. The drum is a open mouthed top bolted to a geared solid lower, and leaked slowly at the connection (we turned the mixer off after it ran while we shot a stage and it had drained to the seam during the next stage). We drained into a plywood box with quarter inch mesh as a bottom, did a couple rinses and air dried.

The brass looked pretty good. No peening appreciated, and cleaned well. More runs needed though, as this was once fired brass that wasn't very grungy to start with, done in a short run, and as mentioned before, we may reduce the detergent.

ETA: and we'll see how long the motor lasts...