Opioid/heroin crisis?

[Idaho45guy]

There was a recent article on Fox News about the still-growing epidemic of heroin and opioid abuse and it was linked to another forum I visit.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/17/familys-fentanyl-tragedy-underscores-mind-boggling-opioid-crisis-in-new-hampshire.html

So members started commenting on how many of their friends and family have been affected. One guy said he had 18 friends die from overdose over the past year (I don't think I even have 18 friends...). Others mentioned how people are walking around like zombies and families are just being devastated by drugs.

It seemed quite a few people using and dying were in their 30's and 40's, which is odd since you'd think one would learn their lesson by that age and wise up to stupid behavior and it's consequences.

But it seems like it's mostly a serious problem in the Midwestern and Eastern states as most people talking about it were from those areas.

My former partner at work is from Ohio, in his late 20's, and said he's lost 50 high school classmates in the past two years to heroin/fentanyl.

I guess I just can't comprehend the kind of environment that people were describing in their communities. I'm out in town nearly every day going to the grocery store or gas station in a town with 15k college kids. I rarely see someone that is obviously on meth or heroin. Lots of dope smokers, however.

My brother is a Detective and member of the local inter-agency drug task force and a couple of years ago mentioned how deaths from meth were down due to the Mexican cartels controlling the supply and flooding the market with "safer" meth with less unknowns in it.

He also said that heroin use was increasing in our area but not nearly as bad as it was in other places.

I don't know; I don't know anyone addicted to heroin or that has died from OD. I know a couple of potheads and a bunch of alcoholics but no hardcore drug users.

What about your area? Do you actually see bunches of people walking around like zombies? Do you have family or friends on heroin/opioids?

[JSnover]

I don't actually see it but I do hear more of it on the local news, just like a few years ago when the 'bath salts' epidemic peaked.

[MrWolf]

Wonder if a few of those stories weren't planted as part of the agenda. There is an issue with over prescribing but I don't think it is as bad as they say as they have cracked down on the prescription process.

[lightman]

I'm not seeing it either. Those death numbers seem kind of excessive to me. The meth and crack heads are pretty easy to spot and we do have a few of those. We probably more dope smokers than I realize but they seem to be more like the social drinkers and are not a problem. I do have a couple of friends/acquaintances that are hooked on legal pain killers due to chronic pain from past injures or ailements . They are concerned about the pending legislation to crack down on the number of prescriptions that a DR can write.

[tommag]

I'm not sure heroin addicts are that easy to spot for the casual observer. I knew a guy that was a junkie and functioned just fine. For a couple years I had no clue. Eventually, he developed a condition where his immune system attacked his muscles. Reading about it, I learned that this condition is mostly found in heroin addicts. That's when I asked him and he confirmed it.

[JSnover]

Does anyone remember some years ago (80s?) patients were pushing doctors to prescribe more painkillers? Until then they were only prescribing minimal amounts because of their addictive potential.
Does anyone else remember this or am I all wrong?

[osteodoc08]

See it every day. Have folk OD and get the reversal agent (narcan) get to the ER, are jonesing for another fix, get up and walk out and right back in an hour or two. The narcan knocks the meds off he opioid receptors and they end up needing more than usual than before the narcan and then end up intubated or DOA.

[snowwolfe]

People spend years learning to hide their evil habits. No difference than booze or spousal and chip abuse. But sooner or later the ugly truth starts to reveal its self.

[Nobade]

It's all over here in Albuquerque. In fact it's hard to encounter a person who is not high when walking in many parts of the city. I have known quite a few junkies and other users. Some have managed to control it and do ok, some have completely thrown away their lives. It makes for a very vulnerable society to have so many people living in a place, all on the edge of destruction.

[DocSavage]

I tend to be a bit of a skeptic,during the past administration everything was a crisis and thus a ploy to extort more money from us the taxpayers.

[Johnch]

Just a few months ago I lost a younger hunting partner to Heroin
He had been on it BIG TIME a few years back
He was a worker at one of the Toledo Ohio schools and bought from several of the students
Got caught in a Piss test and lost his job

Spent 4 years in and out of rehab , at that time all his straight friends and family told him .... talk to us again when you are clean

He moved out of town after his last rehab and was clean for over a year

This last winter he moved back to this area for his job
2 weeks later he got heroin with a "Friend" in Port Clinton Ohio and both died
People were ending up dead a LOT from the bad batches of heroin coming out of the Port Clinton area for months

Hard on his Dad , as I know he was in Pain over it ..... I sort of helped him through the tough times
As I took him hunting a lot of days , just to get his mind off of it for a few hours
He wanted so bad , to "HELP" the police ..... his Duck Gun and OO Buckshot

John

[dragon813gt]

I can assure you it’s not fake. It’s hit a couple people in my family. These are people that you would never expect. They all have families and jobs. And some of them are very well off. It shows that opioids don’t care if you’re poor or rich. Everyone is vulnerable.

I place some of the blame on the drug companies and doctors. The drug companies, who are the biggest drug dealers in the world BTW, were having their salesman push drugs to doctors knowing full well how bad they are. They were outright lying to the doctors. And then you have doctors who simply write a prescription for opioids because you stubbed your toe. Just search “The Sackler Family” if you want to read about putting profits above all else. Here’s a good article but there are plenty more: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a12775932/sackler-family-oxycontin/

Talk to first responders in your area. I’m betting they all carry Narcan. And I’d bet they’re had to use it quite often. Unfortunately people didn’t learn from the heroin epidemic after Vietnam. Opioids were barely mentioned when we had drug prevention assemblies in school. It was all about staying off marijuana and cocaine. I’m sure they know discuss prescription pills, heroin and meth more than anything else. Unfortunately this seems to be cyclical.

One last point. Most of the people hooked started w/ prescription pills. They didn’t see it as a drug. It’s looked at completely differently. Unfortunately the pills put their hooks in you quick. And eventually they switch to heroin for economic purposes. It’s a lot cheaper. At this point they’re not getting high. They’re trying to maintain and keep the pain at bay. Watching family members go through this is hard. The dope sickness is short lived and you’re no longer physically addicted. The mental aspects of the addiction are the hard parts. And it’s why so many struggle to kick it.

[375supermag]

Hi..
I understand it is a very serious problem in my area(southcental Pa.).
I don't understand what the attraction of drug use is...never have.
In 2012, I had some pretty serious surgery for salivary gland cancer at the base of my tongue.
After discharge while recovering at home I was prescribed liquid morphine to be administered via the feeding tube they installed.
After a week or so, I poured it down the drain.
My doctor prescribed muscle relaxants and hydrocodone for the migraines that I suffer from. Haven't taken any of them in a few years.
Advil on occasion is enough to take the edge off the pain and allow me to function. I will admit that I haven't had one of the debilitating migraine attacks since my treatments for salivary gland cancer which included surgery and radiation treatments.
Don't know if the two are related but I do suffer from radiation induced arthritis in my neck but Advil helps with that discomfort also.

[1911sw45]

Need to put the blame where it belongs. The people that are abusing the drugs! It’s not the drug company’s or drs fault, it the people that abuse their meds. Narcan should be banned. Let’s the people abuse the drugs just die. Won’t be long you will see they drug abuse slow to a crawl. There is conquinces for abusing drug and death is one of them.

[ShooterAZ]

It's not prevalent in my area, but it is here. I watched a young man's life go down the drain here at my work (not an employee). He had cut his hand with a Skilsaw and was prescribed opiate pain killers. Apparently he became addicted to them in just a very short time. He'd come in staggering and we finally had to tell him not to return to the premises unless sober. I haven't seen him since. It's sad.

[Hogtamer]

2 here in idyllic Appling Ga this weekend.

[Battis]

This is a great article by Greg Gutfeld (Fox News).
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/04/25/greg-gutfeld-opioids-facts-and-fallacies.html

[Thumbcocker]

I can assure you it’s not fake. It’s hit a couple people in my family. These are people that you would never expect. They all have families and jobs. And some of them are very well off. It shows that opioids don’t care if you’re poor or rich. Everyone is vulnerable.

I place some of the blame on the drug companies and doctors. The drug companies, who are the biggest drug dealers in the world BTW, were having their salesman push drugs to doctors knowing full well how bad they are. They were outright lying to the doctors. And then you have doctors who simply write a prescription for opioids because you stubbed your toe. Just search “The Sackler Family” if you want to read about putting profits above all else. Here’s a good article but there are plenty more: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a12775932/sackler-family-oxycontin/

Talk to first responders in your area. I’m betting they all carry Narcan. And I’d bet they’re had to use it quite often. Unfortunately people didn’t learn from the heroin epidemic after Vietnam. Opioids were barely mentioned when we had drug prevention assemblies in school. It was all about staying off marijuana and cocaine. I’m sure they know discuss prescription pills, heroin and meth more than anything else. Unfortunately this seems to be cyclical.

One last point. Most of the people hooked started w/ prescription pills. They didn’t see it as a drug. It’s looked at completely differently. Unfortunately the pills put their hooks in you quick. And eventually they switch to heroin for economic purposes. It’s a lot cheaper. At this point they’re not getting high. They’re trying to maintain and keep the pain at bay. Watching family members go through this is hard. The dope sickness is short lived and you’re no longer physically addicted. The mental aspects of the addiction are the hard parts. And it’s why so many struggle to kick it.

This ^^^ nailed it

[Hickory]

Drug abuse is the result of a 'feel good' society. If you need to feel good about yourself and there aren't enough people to pat you on the back and make you feel better, there are always drugs easily obtained on the street.
People nowadays have never been taught or conditioned to accept failure or bad times in their lives.
Life to many is a half hour sit-com with happy results after 30 minutes, but, life is a struggle, even in the good times.

Struggle brings growth and strength, and with struggle, you build within yourself the person you will be for the rest of your life.

[popper]

Gov will spend $B of YOUR tax dollars to 'solve' the problem. Recently the CDC released a report stating >40% of the dead drivers in auto accidents had stuff in their system. That doesn't count the ones who didn't have the autopsy. Yes there have been many pill docs and they knew what they were doing, several have been caught and prosecuted. Kinda like the bathtub gin days when booze production wasn't monitored and your would get some really nasty stuff in it, mostly narcotic. Opiods were legal and used for medication for several illnesses, not just pain killer. This whole thing is like the tobacco 'settlement' years ago and the mental illness thing that Gov. is pushing. Just to control the people & waste their money. Most on drugs by their own choice and pretty much ruin lives other than their own. Do realize that in most of the world, this is just 'normal'.

[Alan in Vermont]

Need to put the blame where it belongs. The people that are abusing the drugs! It’s not the drug company’s or drs fault, it the people that abuse their meds. Narcan should be banned. Let’s the people abuse the drugs just die. Won’t be long you will see they drug abuse slow to a crawl. There is conquinces for abusing drug and death is one of them.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. If you're dumb enough to put poisons into your body you may find a price to be paid.

[dragon813gt]

Drug abuse is the result of a 'feel good' society. If you need to feel good about yourself and there aren't enough people to pat you on the back and make you feel better, there are always drugs easily obtained on the street.

It goes a lot deeper than that. The “feel good society” does exist. But you’re gonna find most of these people on anti depressants. There isn’t much correlation between taking them and moving on to opioids. They have their own set of issues. Psychotic behavior at the top of the list.

A lot of people get hooked because opioids are prescribed for a legitimate purpose. Like after a surgery. It doesn’t take long to become physically addicted and the rest is history. If you want to see a shining example of this watch the documentary “Prescription Thugs”. The film creator becomes addicted, after a surgery, while investigating the opioid epidemic.

People have always used some drug to mask the pain from the real world. Some do it by smoking a joint. Some pop a pill. The majority drown their sorrows at the bottom of a bottle of booze. There are more of us on the planet then ever so the numbers that do this is growing ever larger.

[JSnover]

A lot of people get hooked because opioids are prescribed for a legitimate purpose. Like after a surgery. It doesn’t take long to become physically addicted and the rest is history.
Some patients are " wired" for addiction to begin with, they just don't know it. On top of that, some of these drugs can hit the right receptors the right way and in the right quantity to get someone hooked almost immediately.

[country gent]

I have several friends and also police offers both retired and working in Toledo and they claim the heroin opoids is worse now than it ever was. Loke a lot of things at some point users get bit by it. Its not a question of if but of when. Poor quality or bad materials, dirty needles, inconsistent controls on it. One of the reasons the prescription opiods are so sought after. Have heard of snatch and grabs out side pharmacies, user watches the prescription counter hears or sees some one get them and grabs the bag outside when the person leaves.
I have only been on prescription painkillers a few times and didn't care for it. Pain is there to tell you when your over doing it and Im afraid of further injuring myself on them.

[RPRNY]

Obamunism: the Gift that Keeps on Giving.

Eight years of hard left anti-manufacturing and anti-fossil energy policy, toadying to foreign trade partners, and scorn for communities outside the coastal bubbles played a large part in the rapid expansion of the opioid crisis. Obama's Beltway elitists decimated communities throughout Appalachia and the Midwest with policies aimed to appease Wall Street and Green Billionaire donors at the expense of working Americans and ignored the growing problem of opioid abuse. While the pharmaceutical companies do bear some blame for knowingly expanding distribution and supplying distributors in areas where abuse was known to be growing, the lack of action by federal regulators under the Obama Regime is also at fault. At the end of the day, the individual is ultimately responsible for his or her actions, but the conditions that have given rise to the crisis - economic decline, hopelessness, and policy neglect, are firmly rooted in Obamunism.

[dragon813gt]

It started well before Obama. OxyContin came onto the market in 1996. That’s was the beginning. The pill mills were in full effect during Bush’s presidency. The shift from pills to heroin happened when Purdue changed the coating on OxyContin. The whole process started well before Obama was a name anyone knew. You’re hearing more about it because of the fentanyl deaths. It’s also reached critical mass. It wasn’t exactly a slow build. It’s just that if it didn’t effect someone you knew then you had no clue it was happening.

[RU shooter]

Need to put the blame where it belongs. The people that are abusing the drugs! It’s not the drug company’s or drs fault, it the people that abuse their meds. Narcan should be banned. Let’s the people abuse the drugs just die. Won’t be long you will see they drug abuse slow to a crawl. There is conquinces for abusing drug and death is one of them.

That's the view a lot of people who aren't effected either directly or indirectly take . Would you have the same view if it was your spouse or children or even parent ,aunt ,uncle , best friend ? I'm glad there's only been two of you that feel that way in this thread .

[RPRNY]

It started well before Obama. OxyContin came onto the market in 1996. That’s was the beginning. The pill mills were in full effect during Bush’s presidency. The shift from pills to heroin happened when Purdue changed the coating on OxyContin. The whole process started well before Obama was a name anyone knew. You’re hearing more about it because of the fentanyl deaths. It’s also reached critical mass. It wasn’t exactly a slow build. It’s just that if it didn’t effect someone you knew then you had no clue it was happening.

Your understanding is incorrect. Abuse of prescription opioids has existed since they became available. The crisis ensues from the socio-economic conditions created by the Obama Regime.

[Jeff Michel]

Make that three that feel that way. I lost a very good friend, two od's in rental properties I own, two od's at work and lost a brother at 37. If you take that **** it will in time kill you. Narcan just perpetuates the problem, it solves nothing.

[flint45]

My wife has three people in her family who are addicted to opioid painkillers it has caused a lot of problems it affects the whole family.

[RU shooter]

Make that three that feel that way. I lost a very good friend, two od's in rental properties I own, two od's at work and lost a brother at 37. If you take that **** it will in time kill you. Narcan just perpetuates the problem, it solves nothing.
So you don't wish someone could have saved your own brother with a dose of narcan ?

[1911sw45]

RU shooter,
No I would not and have not changed my feelings on this. It does not matter if any of my family has died from the drug over dose. They done it to them selves. I am the first one that will turn any one in for Rx drug abuse or any other drug abuse. Don’t matter if they are family or friends. I find out ur doing them, I am turning u in to the police and/or ur dr. I’ve done it before and I will do it in a heart beat again.

[snuffy]

Wonder if a few of those stories weren't planted as part of the agenda. There is an issue with over prescribing but I don't think it is as bad as they say as they have cracked down on the prescription process.

Exactly!! ^^^ I get Vicodin for chronic pain caused by degenerative disc disease in my neck and lower back. I'm a VA patient under the care of a NP, (nurse practitioner). She prescribed the Vicodin to enable me to function with LESS pain. It by no means takes all the pain away, just makes it livable. Also I do NOT get high from it!

My NP is trying to talk me into scaling back, take less, to satisfy what here superiors are saying. I try to take less, but the result is increased pain, so I vegetate sitting in a recliner staring at a TV or here on the 'puter. My answer is "well give me something else that is a non-opioid." So far there's no replacement offered.

Switch to my brother that has severe lower back pain. He has a Vicodin script for 2 5/325 pills a day. It helps, but really NEEDS 6/day. His doctor cannot prescribe more because of some state limit. A prime example of the govmint trying to solve some crisis that results in people that can't get needed medication to relieve pain.

When used for it's purpose, opioids DO relive pain and seldom cause a high. It's the kids that steal parents drugs that get the highs. Or the street user/buyer that buy them for parties.

When they can come up with a substitute that works as well, that is non-opioid, then I will stop using Vicodin. I hear them say there's long term side effects that can really hurt you, so I hope for a better alternative.

If the anti opioid crowd really wants to solve this so-called crisis, get behind research to find a safe, effective replacement.

[Geezer in NH]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. If you're dumb enough to put poisons into your body you may find a price to be paid.
Add me in Junkies are the problem. The faster they OD the faster the problem cleans itself.

[wgr]

I tend to be a bit of a skeptic,during the past administration everything was a crisis and thus a ploy to extort more money from us the taxpayers.
the last administration created this with the health care thing. now I don't think its right to seal your meds. but a least you know what dose your taking not just something off the street. sure made it hard for my wife to get the pain meds she really needs

[Geezer in NH]

WAR on drugs needs to end Dr./Patient should be the rule.

[Freightman]

They tried to put me on Hydrocodone refused to take it for my back pain, I started with a chiropractor, he started with four times a week for three weeks, worked down to once every two weeks
Pain went from 6 down to 0 in three months no drugs.

[dragon813gt]

Your understanding is incorrect. Abuse of prescription opioids has existed since they became available. The crisis ensues from the socio-economic conditions created by the Obama Regime.

It’s your understanding that’s incorrect. The crisis was around well before Obama became President. But no one was paying attention unless it effected them directly. Obama did not cause the opioid epidemic. They news outlets were reporting on the abuses during Bush’s presidency. But nothing was done about it. It came to head under Obama, that’s all.

[toallmy]

I see it affect a lot of the young people around here , they generally try a pill to get started ,

[nannyhammer]

The majority of people "suffering" with narcotics problems are there because of their own choices. They make poor choices and then want to blame everything but themselves. For example....on Sunday 02 Apr 17 our 24 year old daughter (RN) made a choice to go to church with her best friend, a habit they started when they met in college as room mates. Earlier that same morning a truck driver made the decision to hit the road in East Texas with meth in his system. They met near Benton IL when he crossed the median and killed her as he blacked out coming down from his meth high. Addicts have already forsaken their health, their families, their jobs, your safety and anything else that gets in the way of them getting high. In most areas of the US you can get help by just picking up the phone and making a call. If they all dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear for them. Sorry if this sounds harsh but let's just say my Father's Days aren't the same anymore. Now we only get spend time with our daughter at the cemetery and tracking her scholarship because of one of these addicts. I hope that some day people will quit making excuses for people that are addicts.

[Idaho45guy]

222295

[Idaho45guy]

222297

[snowwolfe]

No one is being forced to swallow a pill, snort a line, on inject a drug. Same as no one is forced to smoke tobacco, chew tobacco, or drink alcohol. Put the blame where it belongs and that is the person using the stuff.

[Geezer in NH]

Addicts need to OD and die is that plain enough? Saving them just creates more addicts and problems IMHO.

Had them in our family it was better when the expired.

[snowwolfe]

We don’t blame alcohol for DUI’s so why should we blame misuse of opioids for addiction

[redneck1]

I think there is a lot more blame to pass around then on just the junkies in this case .. doctors and drug companies should get at least half the blame .
People tend to trust doctors , call them idiots if you like but it's a bad fact .
Three years ago I broke my arm right under the elbow .
The hospital doped me up pretty good when they set it and sent me home home with a bottle of 10 vicoden to hold me till I could fill my prescription.
The next day when I sobered up and looked at my prescription I seen the er doc had prescribed me 120 pills , 4 a day for 30 days .
When I went to get the script filled I asked if they could cut it back a bit and only give me 10 or 15 more pills ... pharmacy guy imeadiatly says ... no! It's what's on the script or nothing .
I chose nothing , fact is I still a couple of first 10 still in my medicine cabinet .

Point is though ... many people do just as they was taught from a kid
Listen to the doc and finish the prescription.
30 days is 16 days longer then it takes for your body to become addicted to opioids . .. plenty of blame to go around

[bedbugbilly]

For those that aren't aware of it . . . perhaps it's because you are the type who would not do it? I say that as an "old guy" . . but one who has seen a lot in the years I worked ambulance and fire-rescue. People seem to think it's "everywhere but here" . .... pull you head out of the sand, it's everywhere and it doesn't make any difference of your race, age, social standing or whatever. A few months ago, a guy OD'd on heroin in the restroom at the local livestock exchange - DOA.

Talk with a high-schooler . . . if they'll be open and honest about it . . . . it is an epidemic.

I't's not necessarily something that you can "see" . . . but it's there. . . . and I would imagine that many would be surprised to find out just how many people they know that are involved in it.

Maybe I'm just getting old . . . but we have a government - and this includes state governments - that pushed and pushed to overcome the tobacco industry and get people to stop smoking. YET . . . these idiotic states are legalizing marijuana . . . why? Simple. The tax money they will get off of it. It's bad enough the number of idiots out there that drive under the influence of alcohol . . . now they add the problem of more drivers under the influence of a legalized drug?

The amount of drugs being caught at the border is just a fraction of what is crossing . . . and where does the drugs go that make it through? All over the U.S. . . . including YOUR COMMUNITY. It's in your schools and it's among people you know. Most can't fathom the problem based on their lifestyles, morals, beliefs . . . . but there are all sorts of people out there in which it is a daily part of their lives.

At least Trump admits there is a problem and is trying to do something about it . . . a far cry from previous Administrations.

[dragon813gt]

222295

The spike can be directly attributed to changing the formulation of OxyContin and the ensuing switch to alternatives. The last couple years have seen lots of deaths related to Fentanyl.

Not everyone is well informed. People trust what the doctor tells them. Not all addicts got hooked because they worked their way up through drugs and landed at heroin. For some people all it takes is one pill and they’re off to the races. The perceived lack of compassion for others by conservatives is on display in this thread. Do I think we should help people who continually go down the same wrong path, no. But I’ve seen how it can grab family members. The right thing to do is try and help them. Not wish they would die so they can be an example to others.

[Traffer]

The problem is there, you just don't see it that much. I was surprised to find out that one of the wives of a guy in our Church group had been off and on heroin addict for the past 10 years. You would never know by talking to them unless you got to know them. She looked normal when she was doing normal stuff.
I believe the the reason that there are is such a big problem with addiction is the same as why there are so many suicides. And for that matter it is the root of just about every societal ill we see. People no longer fear God. Real fear of God is almost unknown in the vast majority of Christian churches nowadays. When I was young in the 50's people were kept away from much of the big harm stuff like addiction and suicide by the knowledge that they would have to stand in judgment for their deeds. There has been a message that had permeated the Christian faith lately that "a loving God wouldn't ever be bad to a person, blah blah blah..." As if God is only compassionate and there are no consequences for sin. Sheep and goats ...sheep and goats. "Depart from me, you evildoers. I never knew you."

[blackthorn]

I have some sympathy for those unfortunate enough to be hooked due to prescription drugs. For those so called "recreational drug users--- none at all! If it were to be one of my family, I would feel bad and cry for my loss at their funeral, but no sympathy. Recreational users go get their drugs off street vendors (pushers), now if I poisoned my city's water supply I would be charged with murder and sentenced accordingly. What happens to pushers?? Not much! The guy leading the Philippians (sp) has the right idea!

[snowwolfe]

Laudanum has been used for at least the last 200 years. For a long time it didn’t require a prescription. Some people abused it but most did not. It is hard for some of you to grasp this but it is not the substance, it’s the person putting it into their body.

[BD]

This actually is a nationwide drug addiction problem that was in fact directly caused by big Pharma working our for profit health care system. Pharma lobbied hard to get expedited approvals for synthetic opioids, pushed them hard and managed to pretty much completely replace the existing severe pain medication regimen, addicting millions of patients in the process. Big Pharma then knowingly flooded the market with the synthetics at volumes far above the amount required to meet the legally prescribed volume in order to feed the addition while actively lobbying to reduce the DEA's ability to investigate and prosecute the legal oversupply of the drugs. Millions of addicted patients came to the end of their prescriptions, (and budgets), and went onto the cheaper, and far more dangerous, street opioids like fentanyl. We are seeing the result. PA congressman Marino bears the majority of the responsibility for continuing this national crisis with his "Insuring patient access" bill that was signed into law by President Obama. This is what we get for staying with our archaic private for profit health insurance industry, while allowing unlimited financial influence on our legislators. And this is why Tom Marino absolutely could not become Trump's "Drug Czar". If you think I'm making up some kind of wacky left wing conspiracy theory, just ask anyone you know who works for the DEA, even a secretary. This is not paranoia, it is the situation we are in. Brought to you by our health care system, and our government.


http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/investigations/how-the-drug-industry-triumped-over-the-dea-the-documents/2248/
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-pharma-bill-20160728-snap-story.html
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/17/little-noticed-law-drug-companies-fought-for-how-it-passed-amid-opioid-crisis-what-it-does.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/politics/opioid-dea-addiction.html

[RED BEAR]

they have no one to blame but there self!! i used to smoke 5 packs of cigarettes a day obama raised the taxes i quit that day used to drink like a fish got married and had a kid i can count the drinks I've had in the last 40 years on one hand. it is a matter of self controll. these people are not addicts becouse they can't stop they dont want to. I've known a lot of doppers over the years and none wanted to stop. it may sound hard but i don't care if they all od the world will be better off. all this its not there fault is a bunch of mess. no one made them take the first dose and to say they got hooked ny the doctor well i guess any excuse is better than blameing them. they should legalize all drugs and maybe we could get rid of them sooner. you know for the first half of this country all drugs were legal its only when the government gets involved is there a problem. if people want to mess up therelife then let them do it!!!

[Mohawk Daddy]

Idaho Guy's graph of heroin deaths is frightening enough, but I just read that in 2016 there were a total of 64,000+ overdose deaths in the US. That's more people than we lost in Vietnam and in just one year. (I can't provide a link. Look it up.)
In my own experience, the ex-wife of a friend OD'd on prescription narcotics about 4 years ago; their grown son has been in and out of prison on drug charges repeatedly. The son of another friend clocked out about 2 years ago; that guy had been a registered nurse before he lost his ticket for substance abuse. A neighbor I barely knew came to my front door (his first time there) asking if I had any "pain pills" I might give him. I told him truthfully that I had none and offered to give him $10 to buy whiskey for his pain. He wasn't interested. Another neighbor got hold of some drugs that were too good for him and tried to kill his wife. Now he's looking at 15-20 years (estimated). It's an epidemic, in my opinion, and it's getting worse.

[Thundarstick]

Of course there's an opioid crisis! What side of it you fall on probably determines how you feel about it, and what should be done about it.

[MaryB]

I take pain meds to deal with severe chronic pain( 9 joint surgeries in 12 years, 2 on the spine, spine is self fusing slowly which is EXTREMELY painful, torn rotator cuff left side, torn ACL both knees, bone spurs in my hips...). My doc prescribes a max amount then trusts me to take the minimum needed to get through the day. I have been managing my med levels successfully for 8 years and doing it so well she asked me to talk to a group and try to get them to use less.

First thing I heard from most of them is "If I take less I feel pain".... I had t explain to them that the meds shouldn't take the pain away, it is a reminder we are injured and to watch what we do so we don't make our injuries worse. Take just enough to get moving in the morning, if needed boost it mid day then take 1 pill before bed to help tone it down so you can sleep.

Several asked me what my pain level was, I was having a bad day and I told then a 9 out of 10, most people would be screaming for morphine but I took my minimum dose that morning to get my body moving and that moving during the day is a MUST. Set 1 project a day that is physical to keep your joints moving, if pain gets to high then and only then take more meds. Pain tells lets you know you are alive and learning to deal with it is better than being doped to the gills. If you take meds to take all pain away you are an addict!

Several people got up and left at that point, ones my doc pulled aside and told them they were getting their meds cut and going on random drug tests once a month for street drugs. The rest asked more questions, especially how to deal with family if you hurt... I said tell them you hurt and to not expect you to do what you did in the past, grouse to each other if you know someone else in pain, they will understand and not complain about you being a grouch.

I get by on half what is prescribed 90% of the time, the other 10% can vary up to full dose if needed like if I do something stupid like lift a half full 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights(still paying for that!). There will be days you just have to get something done so do it and bump your dose up as needed to whatever your max prescription is for a day or two then go back down. If you have a good day skip meds completely, if you are using them for pain you won't be addicted and won't have withdrawal effects skipping 1 day.

My doc said about half have listened to me and gone to managing their meds as needed instead of a set daily dose, and several have seen pain levels drop off by setting a physical task once a day that keeps muscles and joints moving. The rest she has gone to strict management of their meds herself and is pushing them to move to a pain specialist for treatment so she doesn't have the extra workload on top of her GP duties. And yes all the people signed an agreement to participate in the talk and share their med history with me. Several should be cut off they do not have a chronic pain condition...

The problem has been over prescribing for acute pain like after surgery. Instead of 3-7 days docs were prescribing 14 days getting people hooked... then when they get cut off they turn to street drugs and OD

And if you haven't experienced severe chronic pain you do not know what kind of a hell it turns your life into!

[TXGunNut]

Several years ago I was (over)prescribed Hydrocodone for several weeks after a back injury. Insurance company refused to authorize surgery. I had no idea what I was doing; took one so I could get moving in the morning and another to sleep at night. Much less than the max prescribed. Figured it was no big deal. One Friday the doc finally woke up and refused to allow the pharmacy to refill the prescription. I figured I could make it thru the weekend. Wrong! I'm one of those folks who had a really bad time with withdrawals. I was as sick as I've ever been and had no idea why. Third day I was able to do a little research and figured it out. Never saw that sorry excuse for a doc again! A year or two later I had oral surgery and the dentist prescribed 30 :roll: Vicodin or Oxycontin after I told him I could not take Hydrocodone. :roll: Like a dummy I took two over the following day or two and had to go through the withdrawal thing all over again. Not sure I'm getting all the drug names right but you get the idea, they're pretty much all the same as far as my system is concerned. With docs doing stupid stuff like this I wasn't surprised to learn that these pills and the docs who overprescribe them are a real problem and in recent years others are finally starting to see it too. Last time I had surgery I found that two Ibuprofen every now and then works just fine for me. I guess I'm lucky.
I was doing the LE thing when Heroin started to make a comeback. My LE career started in the early 80's and I heard terrible stories about how nasty it was. I figured something as terrible as Heroin would never make a comeback. Wish I'd been right.

[Jeff Michel]

So you don't wish someone could have saved your own brother with a dose of narcan ?

It doesn't help, that's my point. My brother, my friends and the other people I've known that has succumbed to drug over doses, made a choice and it cost them in the end. I never said it wasn't tragic and it's certainly a horrible way to die, but not a single one of these people were forced, and if you spend sometime talking to police or emergency medical personal the common consensuses is that if you take it, it will eventually take you. That's why stories of people that have kicked the addiction is so rare. What you don't hear is the stories of these same people dying later from an overdose. You only need to take this once and your hooked. That's why your first "hit" is always a freebie. We had three OD's on a single Saturday not long ago. My town has a population 15,000 people. Yes, it's problem, no question. But the problem of how to solve it it much more difficult. The compassionate side of our being wants to help these people as much as we can even though deep down it's probably fruitless. The realistic side wants to punish the people who deal out this poison to our people but, we don't have the will to be really harsh. Look how the Philippines handle drug runners. They catch them and shoot them and the world raises their collective hands in horror and they says "She's a grandmother" and what they don't say is she is really a person that sells drugs that kill people. That option works probably works the best against repeat offenders but it's not really all that effective. The problem is that people are taking the drugs, when that demand is lessened through attrition then drugs usage will drop proportionately. Cold, yup. but a statistical certainty. You can't cure human nature regardless of the insanity of some of their actions. This will have to run it's course like any other epidemic.

[Shopdog]

I had some record book sized kidney stones a cpl years ago.Before finally being carried to the doctor,the pain was so intense,I'd pass out.

So anyway,the kidney stone specialist gets me all squared away by "zapping" them,which worked great.He prescribes 10 oxy sumthin for the pain.I took them exactly how it was written up.When going back a few days later,looked him straight in the eye and said no thanks on a refill.Could feel the addictive effects in that short of period.

I don't have a clue on how to go about solving this opioid problem?

[snowwolfe]

Addicts will be addicts. Knoxville news station posted a clip the other day some EMS crews have actually administered Narcan TWICE to the same addict in one day. The EMS crews also mentioned Narcan seems to be losing its effectiveness possibly due to addicts consuming higher amount of drugs with more strength.

[MrWolf]

Like Mary, my neck and back are screwed up bad. Work finally forced me out after a fall at work and now on disability retirement. I took the multiple pills a day but had issues with the spiking and falling pain levels; not to mention high blood pressure. I went on the 24/7 one pill a day. I am in slightly more pain but it is more evened out now. Blood pressure basically normal now. Like Mary said, you have to move around and do things. For me the nights are the worst with being up every hour or two from pain and sleeping on the floor half the time. Now some folks say opioids are being abused by others so now I have to jump through hoops and drive round trip 1 1/2 - 2 hours every month when sitting for more than 30 minutes becomes painful to see a pain doc. System is screwed up. Said it before, same argument anti gun folks make.

[35isit]

There are many ways to get hooked. I watched my uncle die about 50 years ago from opioid dependency. Never wanted it never will. Refused to take them for the most part in the hospital. I was laying in a bed with a broken back. When I was released I was prescribed enough for 4 a day for 30 days. They lasted me a year. Yes I was in pain but didn't want to become dependent. When I went back to work was asked if I had any for sale. People just want to be screwed up on anything. That includes drugs, sex, alcohol you name it.

[popper]

I'm not a medical scientist but you need to understand how this stuff works, sugar, opiods, chocolate,coffee, etc - yes all (except sugar - booze) have somewhat similar heavy alkaloid molecules. Those little guys like to find a happy restful spot in your brain to take a nap - which makes your brain take a nap or something else bad. Your body chemistry decides how many nappers it will allow - thus some get 'hooked' on a single dose, others appear to be immune. Narcan & other 'stuff' will find a spot to take a nap but it is shorter so the real snoozers get eliminated. The snoozers cause the brain to work in strange ways.
It is still up to the individual to take the first step. Worst case I've seen was in the service, go to sick bay for about anything and the corpsman gives you tablets with the blue dot on the side. I've been given 'happy juice' a couple times after minor surgery and I just go to sleep. Ever see a 98yr old wheelchair bound gal try to get out of bed and undress, ready to check herself out of the hospital (and speak stuff you never heard her say) after getting a shot of 'happy juice'? You don't want to pay for the 24/7 'monitor/observer' in the hospital either. Standing orders at the old folks home - she goes to the hospital - absolutely NO pain killers.
You really want those persons to fix your car/airplane, drive down the road when you are on the road, drive your bus or train?

[RU shooter]

It doesn't help, that's my point. My brother, my friends and the other people I've known that has succumbed to drug over doses, made a choice and it cost them in the end. I never said it wasn't tragic and it's certainly a horrible way to die, but not a single one of these people were forced, and if you spend sometime talking to police or emergency medical personal the common consensuses is that if you take it, it will eventually take you. That's why stories of people that have kicked the addiction is so rare. What you don't hear is the stories of these same people dying later from an overdose. You only need to take this once and your hooked. That's why your first "hit" is always a freebie. We had three OD's on a single Saturday not long ago. My town has a population 15,000 people. Yes, it's problem, no question. But the problem of how to solve it it much more difficult. The compassionate side of our being wants to help these people as much as we can even though deep down it's probably fruitless. The realistic side wants to punish the people who deal out this poison to our people but, we don't have the will to be really harsh. Look how the Philippines handle drug runners. They catch them and shoot them and the world raises their collective hands in horror and they says "She's a grandmother" and what they don't say is she is really a person that sells drugs that kill people. That option works probably works the best against repeat offenders but it's not really all that effective. The problem is that people are taking the drugs, when that demand is lessened through attrition then drugs usage will drop proportionately. Cold, yup. but a statistical certainty. You can't cure human nature regardless of the insanity of some of their actions. This will have to run it's course like any other epidemic.

Jeff I understand your view and I am very sorry for your loss , I wasn't in any way making light of it or being snarky , Believe me I do talk with ems and LE all the time as I have friends in both fields also my girlfriend is a opoid abuse counselor and has been for the last 12 years . I honestly don't know what the cure or solution is for this nation wide epidemic , but I do know people can kick their addiction but it's very very hard in comparison to other drugs like coke . Most people can't do it alone and don't ask for help there's just the drive that their mind is telling them more more more one or two stamp bags a day turn into 20-30 just to get that same high and it snow balls until they OD like I have said I am looking at this through my girlfriends eyes as she tells me stories and explains to me how the opioids affect the body and brain of the user .

[Jeff Michel]

No apology necessary, it is a will always be a super charged topic. Your girlfriend is correct, it is virtually impossible without outside help. My wife became an EMT after she retired, and even though she can't discuss anything in specifics, general comments adds quite a few disturbing aspects to the heroin problem. The term of "Lazarus parties" where a group of people intentionally overdose, one individual stays lucid so as to administer Narcan to his associates. Or "Frequent Flyers" multiple incidents of overdosing. No person alive knows how this will end or even if it will end. Narcotics has been part of the human experience as long as there have been people and it's also part of the human condition to believe that you personally will not be affected in the same way as everyone else. Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that they are generally good people that make really stupid choices. Perhaps some good will come out of their collective passing, but for me personally, I seemed to of misplaced my compassion along the way and I just can't find it anywhere.

[smokeywolf]

A bit over a decade ago, was on the percs and the oxys for months at a time. Ruptured disc and torn cartilage in my hip.

Last trip to the pain management doc, he asked me if I needed a refill. I said "nope, still have 80-something left". He said, "that's not possible". I said, I stopped taking them 3 weeks ago. He said, "you're not in pain anymore?" I said, "Oh yeah, still in pain. Just that, even double dosing the percs/oxys don't do that much for the pain anymore. Plus, they add their own problems to deal with."

Doc said, "You had to have been addicted to them. How did you get off of them?" I said, "They weren't doing enough for me anymore, so they just weren't worth taking." He asked how I felt when I stopped taking them. I said, "Depressed and had an upset stomach." He said, "That was withdrawal symptoms". Told him, I had those symptoms just before quitting the percs.

I'll still use the oxys on rare occasions, but only when my hip goes out, my back muscles spasm or I'm trying to pass a kidney stone.

Can't stand the idea of being controlled by something else or someone else.

[RPRNY]

It’s your understanding that’s incorrect. The crisis was around well before Obama became President. But no one was paying attention unless it effected them directly. Obama did not cause the opioid epidemic. They news outlets were reporting on the abuses during Bush’s presidency. But nothing was done about it. It came to head under Obama, that’s all.

Repeating it will not make it true. The socio-economic conditions that Obama’s War on Working Americans brought an opioid abuse problem to crisis levels in the Ohio River Valkey, Appalachia, and the Upper Midwest.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Can't stand the idea of being controlled by something else or someone else.

Same here. At this very moment, I am in bed fighting some severe post-op pain with only Tylenol to help. Took the Oxys for the first 36 hours, then got off as soon as possible. I never asked and was never offered them pre-op despite near constant pain that peaked out at 8-10 at times. Perhaps a sign of a shift in the medical field. I've never gotten much pleasure out of the pills, but certainly don't want to find out the hard way.

Watched my dad, who has more dedication than most, struggle with nicotine for years. I won't even smoke an occasional cigar. I do enjoy my evening drink, but dry out from time to time, just to make sure I can.

My BIL has had pill problems for years which started with recurring kidney stones in his teenage years. He's in med management and I just pray that it's working and he doesn't turn to anything else for his sake, my wife's, and the rest of his family's. Mistakes were almost certainly made along the way by all the parties involved, but the only thing to do now is to pursue recovery.

Never once, have I or anyone else I know been counciled by a doctor or pharmacist the potential for addiction, warning signs, or steps to take if an opiate addiction is forming. Would it do any good? I don't know, but it'd only cost a few minutes of time to try. Sadly, many of these professionals feel their time is too valuable to actually talk to their patients anymore

I was certainly young and dumb at a point in my life, but managed, by the grace of God, to survive those years without any major mistakes. No doubt most addictions are self inflicted and dealing with an addict is exhausting and frustrating. I can't fathom the toll on our society. My prayers are for those that are struggling and their families.

[smokeywolf]

Silvercreek Farmer, if you're still imbibing regularly or even semi-regularly you should consult with your doctor about switching from Tylenol to ibuprofen.

[mattw]

We see it in Illinois! But, I have a wife who was in an accident a few years back and suffered TBI and 21 broken bones. She is tough, but at night she has to have 2 very good pain killers to just sleep. Getting to the point that doctors will not give it to her... And my friends, this is ********! She is not addicted, never has been and has self managed her dose for 11 years. Even though early on she was prescribed 2 every 4 to 6 hours, she never took them. She spent almost a month on 100 down to 25 microgram/hr patches with fentanyl. Addiction can be avoided if there is a will!

[MrWolf]

Been told taking my pills is addictive. Said no matter what I will have to take something for the pain, especially at night. Honestly, what is the difference between taking an opioid vs taking Tylenol or ibuprofen every day? You are still taking something to handle the pain. I am not talking about taking something that makes you high, or loopy.

[EMC45]

Addicts will be addicts. Knoxville news station posted a clip the other day some EMS crews have actually administered Narcan TWICE to the same addict in one day. The EMS crews also mentioned Narcan seems to be losing its effectiveness possibly due to addicts consuming higher amount of drugs with more strength.



I've heard of this as well. I also have heard when junkies get combative after Narcan administered due to their "high" being ruined.

[Nobade]

I've heard of this as well. I also have heard when junkies get combative after Narcan administered due to their "high" being ruined.Yeah, it can get comical. An old girlfriend works medical intake at the city jail, and says those guys are always so bummed to see her because she makes them sober before they go to their cell for the night.

[gwpercle]

What I can't understand is we are right in the middle of one pharmaceutical induced epidemic...pain killers and our politicians are moving heaven and earth to get "medical mary jane" legalized.
Why create another drug addiction...after medical it's a short step to recreational and another drug problem.....Mark my words...Ain't Nothing Good Going to come from more addictions.
Gary

[Nobade]

What I can't understand is we are right in the middle of one pharmaceutical induced epidemic...pain killers and our politicians are moving heaven and earth to get "medical mary jane" legalized.
Why create another drug addiction...after medical it's a short step to recreational and another drug problem.....Mark my words...Ain't Nothing Good Going to come from more addictions.
GaryEvery place that has legalized marijuana has seen opiate prescriptions and deaths from overdose drop considerably. People are switching to it for pain relief.

[fatnhappy]

Another manager in my company left work a year ago February to find his daughter dead in the parking lot. She'd been clean for a year.
It's not something I would wish on my worst enemy, but the responsibility rightly falls on the person likely to suffer most.


Anyone that uses is playing Russian roulette with an automatic.

[MaryB]

I disagree, I have been using narcotic pain meds since 2007... mostly self managed minimal dose that lets be get moving for the day. 11 years, no upping the dose(in fact I have been lowering it!)... it depends on the person. Some people have personalities that let them become addicted easily.

[DocSavage]

Have had kidney stones off and on 2 shoulder surgeries hernia and
Carpal tunnel surgeries was given morphine in the ER for the stones and either percodan or percocet for post surgeries. Was really concerned about getting hooked on the pain meds as several family members have been in and out of rehab for addiction. Didn't take the meds unless really nessicery got by on tylenol. Other than constipation from the meds I wasn't in the kind of pain I was expecting so either the pain level was overstated or I'm tougher than I thought.

[Walks]

I've been on Prescription Opioids for 20yrs due to being knocked off a ladder at work. Both my knees were busted and my spine suffered 3 cracked vertebrae and 8 damaged discs.
I saw lot's of friends in the late '60's when I was in H.S. die of drug overdoses. I became a NAVY Corpsman and worked in a V. A. Hospital after my service. I saw pain meds pushed on vets consistently. I know of many who became hooked and went on to illegal drugs and O'D.
When I got hurt I learned to control my pain with Physical Therapy, ice packs & heating pads.
I take very few pills, just 1-2 to dull the sharp edge, and I'll never drive or reload or shoot while I'm on them. I've learned to live with it. So my DR. doesn't worry about me. I watched my DAD live with pain from the time I was young enough to realize it until the day he died.
Maybe I inherited his resistance to pain or ability to deal with it. Or maybe It's just plain fear from all I've seen.

[9.3X62AL]

Or maybe It's just plain fear from all I've seen.

That's me. Drugs have always scared the living daylights out of me. I grew up as the son of a coroner's deputy, and could discern that drugs contributed frequently and generously to my Dad's client base. The guy that shot me in 1981 did so while burglarizing a closed pharmacy to obtain opiates and barbiturates. I have been blessed (so far) to not live with very much pain very often. I want NO PART of any pain meds not required for genuine severe pain management.

Humans really like to poison themselves. I will never understand that trait.

[Beagle333]

I agree with MaryB, some people just have more addictive traits than others. I take opioids for acute pain (Tramodol and Percodan), and have done so for years. I take breaks so that it doesn't lose effectiveness and I don't take more now than when I started. My pain management doc watches my doses and my refills so that he'd also know if I was using more than he wanted me to. I have no problems keeping my doses low and do not have any withdrawals during my breaks in dosage. I don't feel that I am a threat to become addicted, nor to move to any stronger drugs, especially any unregulated and questionable potency street drugs. My pain is acute, not chronic, which means that it flares up fast and strong and it needs a drug that reacts the same way. So moving to a daily regimented dosage of a non-narcotic is not a good treatment option. I don't need pain meds when I'm not in a wave of bad pain, so the opioids are wonderful in their fast action for acute pain. I agree that it's not for everybody, because some can't take it that way without going too far, but don't ban it for people who are able to use it with supervision and moderation, as sometimes it is their only relief option from pain so severe that most cannot comprehend.

[jimlj]

I think opioids are over prescribed.
I had a hernia operation 4 weeks ago. The doctor gave me a prescription for Percocet. The directions said to take 1 or 2 pills every 6 hours for pain as needed. I ended up taking 3 pills the first day, 3 the next and 2 the following day. The prescription was for 45 pills.
I think the prescription should have been for 10 pills with a refill if needed. I think it should be made a bit harder to have these drugs in front of you. I know if I had needed more, the thought of driving across town and waiting in line at the pharmacy would have made me wonder if the pain was bad enough for the trouble.

[Thundarstick]

Hit the nail on the head!

[Battis]

Blaming a Dr for prescribing too many pills is like blaming Budweiser for putting too many bottles of beer in a six pack, or blaming Lays for putting too many chips in a bag, or blaming Winchester for putting too many cartridges in a box. Don't need them, then don't use them.
It comes down to individual responsibility. I was taking Percocet during radiation treatment (35 sessions). I hear stories of all these tough guys that don't need the pain pills but I challenge anyone to attempt the radiation treatment that I went through without opioids. No one can do it.
When the treatments ended, and the pain lessened, I cut back, then quit the pills.
Heroin is another story. The first time you use heroin, you're a criminal. The next time, you're an addict. As far as I know, in the past century, heroin has never been prescribed for pain, therefore it's all on the user.

[Nobade]

Blaming a Dr for prescribing too many pills is like blaming Budweiser for putting too many bottles of beer in a six pack, or blaming Lays for putting too many chips in a bag, or blaming Winchester for putting too many cartridges in a box. Don't need them, then don't use them.
It comes down to individual responsibility. I was taking Percocet during radiation treatment (35 sessions). I hear stories of all these tough guys that don't need the pain pills but I challenge anyone to attempt the radiation treatment that I went through without opioids. No one can do it.
When the treatments ended, and the pain lessened, I cut back, then quit the pills.
Heroin is another story. The first time you use heroin, you're a criminal. The next time, you're an addict. As far as I know, in the past century, heroin has never been prescribed for pain, therefore it's all on the user.Better check your sources. Morphine Hydrochloride is routinely used in hospitals for pain control. It's street name is heroin.

[Nobade]

As for blaming doctors, many are to blame. When you have 100 times the number of prescriptions written than the number of residents of a county, the doctor is a problem. There are numerous places in WV, VA, KY, TN, and other states where this is the case. When you have every single resident of a town high at the same time, every day, there is a problem. Oxy contin isn't called hillbilly heroin for no reason.

[RPRNY]

Every place that has legalized marijuana has seen opiate prescriptions and deaths from overdose drop considerably. People are switching to it for pain relief.

Going to have to ask for some substantiation for this claim because the chemistry simply isn’t there. The addictive properties of opioids simply do not allow for someone addicted to switch to or substitute canbabids. The chemical properties of the latter simply do not operate in the same way as the former. So, if the suggestion is that legalizing marijuana leads to opioid addicts switching to cannabids, physiology contradicts this.

[Battis]

OK, I'm not a doctor, though I played one on TV (No, I didn't). I think you know what I was getting at - illegal heroin has not been prescribed for pain. Filling a legal prescription for Percocet is not the same as seeking out heroin on the street.
And, from what I've read quickly online, there is a difference between morphine and street heroin:

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/heroin-addiction/heroin-and-morphine/
There are many similarities between heroin and morphine, but differences as well. One of the biggest differences between heroin and morphine is the fact that heroin is three times more potent than morphine, which can be shocking if you’ve ever been on morphine and see how powerful it is. Heroin, along with being three times more potent, is also semi-synthetic. Heroin is made when morphine is combined with chemical substances. There are also differences in how heroin and morphine are administered. Heroin is primarily injected, and it doesn’t have any medical uses in the U.S., while morphine is currently usually given as a pill or a suppository. Another one of the differences between heroin and morphine relates to how quickly they reach the brain. Both heroin and morphine can pass the blood-brain barrier, but heroin does it more quickly, and once it reaches the brain it’s converted to morphine. Generally, the more fast-acting a drug is, the more addictive it also is.With heroin and morphine, it’s also easier and cheaper to get heroin in most cases. The market is flooded with heroin, and much of it is poor quality or mixed with dangerous ingredients, while morphine is closely regulated, making it much less accessible.

"When you have every single resident of a town high at the same time, every day, there is a problem."
Again, personal choice. Were they force fed the drugs?

[Nobade]

I agree, it doesn't make sense on the surface. But every study I have read says the same thing, as do the FBI's published stats.
Going to have to ask for some substantiation for this claim because the chemistry simply isn’t there. The addictive properties of opioids simply do not allow for someone addicted to switch to or substitute canbabids. The chemical properties of the latter simply do not operate in the same way as the former. So, if the suggestion is that legalizing marijuana leads to opioid addicts switching to cannabids, physiology contradicts this.

[dragon813gt]

So, if the suggestion is that legalizing marijuana leads to opioid addicts switching to cannabids, physiology contradicts this.
I can tell you this is what my Mother is in the process of doing. She had botched surgery years ago and is in chronic pain. She’s tapered down her pills as much as she can physically handle. Technically she’s not addicted to them. She doesn’t want to take them anymore and cannabis was recently legalized for medical use. So she’s going to switch to see if cannabis helps for chronic pain.

Prescribing cannabis first for chronic pain has the potential to prevent people from ever becoming addicted to opioids. I can’t say I see addicts switching. Everyone’s body chemistry is different so what works for one may not work for another. Maybe if Ibogaine treatments were legal here we could drastically reduce the number of addicts? But that’s a different discussion.

[popper]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5869259/Marijuana-users-feel-pain-study-lower-pain-tolerance.html
Interesting. Also interesting that of 260 ER patients, 27% are MJ users, additional 10% are hard drug users. Goes along pretty good with CDC numbers of 44% of drivers are hard users. Not going to change those numbers by ($1B) gov. advertising, like they did to RJ Reynolds. Yes, smoking is down in the US, due to the HIGH tax, not any ads or counseling.

[AggieEE]

About 10+ years ago my gallbladder wanted a divorce. Had a gall stone blocking the bile duct so I stayed in the hospital during that time. I was there a week and don't remember much of that week. I don't know what they gave me but my mom said I was awake and talking to the docs, can't prove it by me. After surgery, had some pretty intense pain. Got an injection a time or two then they started asking what pain level I was at. I gave them an honest answer and they were low balling me on the meds. Not giving me enough to work. Seeing how they played if I was a 7 I said 8 just to stay pretty much pain free. I did notice that pains that I would normally ignore I couldn't. When I went home had a script for pain killers, hydrocodone I think, anyway took one said I don't need this and didn't take any more. After about a week I started feeling like I'd been drunk. No headache or nausea just dead tired. My bp also headed for the basement. Got off of my bp meds for a while and started feeling better. I was off my meds for about a month and it was wonderful, bp started back up so back on the meds. Lost at least 10 pounds, that came back, in that week not that I would recommend that as a weight loss program.

[smokeywolf]

I agree with MaryB, some people just have more addictive traits than others. I take opioids for acute pain (Tramodol and Percodan), and have done so for years. I take breaks so that it doesn't lose effectiveness and I don't take more now than when I started. My pain management doc watches my doses and my refills so that he'd also know if I was using more than he wanted me to. I have no problems keeping my doses low and do not have any withdrawals during my breaks in dosage. I don't feel that I am a threat to become addicted, nor to move to any stronger drugs, especially any unregulated and questionable potency street drugs. My pain is acute, not chronic, which means that it flares up fast and strong and it needs a drug that reacts the same way. So moving to a daily regimented dosage of a non-narcotic is not a good treatment option. I don't need pain meds when I'm not in a wave of bad pain, so the opioids are wonderful in their fast action for acute pain. I agree that it's not for everybody, because some can't take it that way without going too far, but don't ban it for people who are able to use it with supervision and moderation, as sometimes it is their only relief option from pain so severe that most cannot comprehend.

Had to give Timber (my avatar) a Tramodol this morning, in addition to his Carprofen, for his joint pain in his left shoulder from his bone cancer.

[RPRNY]

It seems perfectly logical to me that if cannabids are the first port of call for treatment, rather than opioids, that will, over time, profoundly reduce opioid addiction, and is certainly a desirable outcome. As far as I know, while habituation can occur with marijuana and other cannabids (and so many other things ) there is no evidence of cannabids creating clinical addiction. My point is that if one is clinically addicted to opioids, substituting them with cannabids will not “unhook” the addict from the opioids.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I disagree, I have been using narcotic pain meds since 2007... mostly self managed minimal dose that lets be get moving for the day. 11 years, no upping the dose(in fact I have been lowering it!)... it depends on the person. Some people have personalities that let them become addicted easily.

Word for word, I couldn't say it better. Im in the same boat as Mary and MrWolf. My back is a train wreck and I depend on a pain med to manage my pain. Im 35 now and been in this boat since I was 20. The will power and self restraint or lack of has a lot to do with the problems surrounding opioid drugs. Some people don't have any or enough self control. I am not addicted nor an addict, I am disabled and dependent. There IS a BIG difference. If this is the boat in which you float, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you aren't in this lot then you don't understand. Please don't paint all of us with the same brush. I can't argue that the US has a prescription drug problem but understand it is a people problem with a certain group of people who abuse the means of the well to do folks. Same argument of the anti gunners. I'm tired of the circus act shoved down our throats because of the reckless abandonment of the abusers. Again a familiar tune.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Silvercreek Farmer, if you're still imbibing regularly or even semi-regularly you should consult with your doctor about switching from Tylenol to ibuprofen.

Good point. Ibuprofen is my usual go to for aches and pains. I probably average 2 tablets a week unless something is injured or I am sick. Just added Tylenol to the ibuprophen post surgery (per the doctor), and I dried out before and after surgery. Even after surgery, I've only used less than half the maximum dose of either. No reason to go complicating things with stomach or liver issues! I really could have used the opiates the last few days (and probably should have), but toughed it out and things are much better now!

[smokeywolf]

I would venture to guess that most of those anti-opiate, lets ban opiates crowd, have never suffered from long term extreme pain. Just as opiates can mess up your mind, pain will eventually make you either crazy or terribly depressed.

I use the opiates when I absolutely have to. Don't like the feeling or the constipation.

Silvercreek Farmer, Tylenol is processed by the liver. Ibuprofen is processed by the kidneys. Be sure and don't consume alcohol when taking acetaminophen (Tylenol).

[Idaho45guy]

I'm extremely fortunate in that I'm still very healthy and have never had to deal with that sort of chronic pain.

I did have a pilonidal cyst removed in my 20's and the doc prescribed me Tylenol 3 and Demerol.

Both worked pretty well, but the Tylenol 3 gave me a headache, ironically, and the Demerol made me feel very, very happy and peaceful. Wonderful feeling. I can understand why people get hooked on it.

[MaryB]

I would venture to guess that most of those anti-opiate, lets ban opiates crowd, have never suffered from long term extreme pain. Just as opiates can mess up your mind, pain will eventually make you either crazy or terribly depressed.

I use the opiates when I absolutely have to. Don't like the feeling or the constipation.

Silvercreek Farmer, Tylenol is processed by the liver. Ibuprofen is processed by the kidneys. Be sure and don't consume alcohol when taking acetaminophen (Tylenol).


And long term use of either is VERY bad for your liver or kidneys! Percocet has acetaminophen and that is why I cut way back on it...

[Traffer]

I disagree, I have been using narcotic pain meds since 2007... mostly self managed minimal dose that lets be get moving for the day. 11 years, no upping the dose(in fact I have been lowering it!)... it depends on the person. Some people have personalities that let them become addicted easily.

I started taking pain medication on a regular basis when I got married 14 years ago. I have been in constant chronic pain since 1985. Before getting married, I would moan scream and cry out to God sometimes all night. I learned to sleep through it from sheer exhaustion. I had room mates in a fairly sound proof house back in the 90's. I learned to close the windows so as to not wake the neighbors with my moaning. But my roommates could hear. Several times I had one of them comment "had a rough night last night huh?" My reply was, "was I moaning"? "Oh yeah, you woke us all up". they said. I wasn't even aware of it....slept right through it.
So when I got married my new wife was freaking out (even though she was aware of my pain situation). It was far too stressful for her, so I agreed to go on pain medication. First it was vicodin...which worked well enough that I didn't make noise and mess up her life. But then we moved from Florida to Wisconsin and the first doctor we saw told me that he had to sign a statement that he would not prescribe narcotics for long term situations, so no more vicodin. He referred me to a pain clinic. The doc there said "Vicodin has had so much bad press lately that they won't let me prescribe it. We went through the exam stuff and he prescribed time release Morphine AND oxycodone for break out pain.
It has been about 7 years now on morphine and oxycodone. I recently had a bout with cancer. Had to have a kidney removed. Because my guts were slowed down so much by the opioids, I almost died with complications from CONSTIPATION. I was forced to try and go off of the opioids. I shucked oxycodone easy enough. But now it has been about 5 months that I have been trying to rid myself of Morphine. It is harder than I imagined. I need something for the pain. The pain is off the charts. Especially when I lay down to sleep. I may sleep for about 10 minutes then wake up screaming ...you see I can block the pain as long as I can concentrate but as soon as I let my guard down to sleep ...BANG the idea of sleep becomes a ridiculous notion. The only time I sleep is when I get so delirious I pass out. And that is usually sitting up.
But I have cut down morphine from 30mg twice a day to 30 in the evening and 15 during the day. I will quit the stuff ...and that is by God.

[glockfan]

^^^^
omg!!!:shock::(

i tought my body was a trainwreck....

i'm on supeudol since this past november while waiting for a lower back surgery.

pain can be bright and very sharp, to the point of not being able to walk normally.

when i'm struck by the nerves touching some bones,it litterally cut my legs , and i may fall down on the floor ; i have to hook on the walls,appliances...on anything to crawl back in bed,my lower back is so painfull ,it cant support the upper body.

i take as many as i see fit(6 to 8 _ 10mill pills ) ,so i can go through out my retirement days.

i fear the day doc will cut my oxy intake. will i get a stroke?

now,when my time is past (meds) i feel dizzy and i'm getting chills ,i've never felt this way ,i think symptoms are instilled by my body claiming his dose.

i've been 8 years in this state of high pain, while refusing to take any painkillers, before
the doc convinced me i would have a much better life while waiting for the
surgery ; but if i had to choose between the bright and cutting pain i've been through all these years i refused the meds, i'd choose the meds again,living pain free is priceless,living with 24 on 24 pain is more than the human body can take on the long term.

yet,i'm in high fear.

will i be able to jump out from the meds without a hiccup?

i know it'll be a really tough time.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I had reluctantly tried morphine in the past and I didn't care for it. It really didn't do well with my pain management but it has awful withdrawal even at the low dose I took. I had used Percocet for the better part of a decade and it did the best job at letting me live life without being in misery. The past couple of years we have been keeping better tabs on my blood chemistry and was starting to trend above normal on my liver enzymes so another change was in order. Now gone with the Percocet to get rid of the acetaminophen which is not your livers best friend. Now I take a oxycontin which is free of the added acetaminophen but it is an extended release drug. I honestly haven't felt this good in years. I tend to hurt much less and over longer periods of time and without the loopy feeling nor the withdrawal of the roller coaster that came with the Percocet. Staying active is a big help too. Doing anything extended periods causes pain to set in, sitting, standing, sleeping, etc. It might be worth a try for some of you. Keep an eye on your bloodwork too and insist that it be checked if you don't do so frequently. I wish I didn't have to depend on meds like this and basically have a leash for someone or something to control me by but the alternative, pain is too much. I've hopefully got a long and prosperous life ahead of me still and that's a journey I'd rather not live in agony. Life is too short for that.

[MaryB]

^^^^
omg!!!:shock::(

i tought my body was a trainwreck....

i'm on supeudol since this past november while waiting for a lower back surgery.

pain can be bright and very sharp, to the point of not being able to walk normally.

when i'm struck by the nerves touching some bones,it litterally cut my legs , and i may fall down on the floor ; i have to hook on the walls,appliances...on anything to crawl back in bed,my lower back is so painfull ,it cant support the upper body.

i take as many as i see fit(6 to 8 _ 10mill pills ) ,so i can go through out my retirement days.

i fear the day doc will cut my oxy intake. will i get a stroke?

now,when my time is past (meds) i feel dizzy and i'm getting chills ,i've never felt this way ,i think symptoms are instilled by my body claiming his dose.

i've been 8 years in this state of high pain, while refusing to take any painkillers, before
the doc convinced me i would have a much better life while waiting for the
surgery ; but if i had to choose between the bright and cutting pain i've been through all these years i refused the meds, i'd choose the meds again,living pain free is priceless,living with 24 on 24 pain is more than the human body can take on the long term.

yet,i'm in high fear.

will i be able to jump out from the meds without a hiccup?

i know it'll be a really tough time.

Want wreck? Low back laminectomy(decompression), now need a fusion. Neck fusion. Right shoulder rotator cuff twice, left shoulder still has an 80% tear. Right wrist carpal tunnel twice, left wrist still have carpal tunnel. Left hip tumor removed from around the sciatic nerve. Right knee scraped out. Right thumb tendon shortened and reattached. Torn ACL both knees, bone spur right hip... on top of osteoarthritis and my spine slowly fusing on its own(extremely painful process)...

[Traffer]

Want wreck? Low back laminectomy(decompression), now need a fusion. Neck fusion. Right shoulder rotator cuff twice, left shoulder still has an 80% tear. Right wrist carpal tunnel twice, left wrist still have carpal tunnel. Left hip tumor removed from around the sciatic nerve. Right knee scraped out. Right thumb tendon shortened and reattached. Torn ACL both knees, bone spur right hip... on top of osteoarthritis and my spine slowly fusing on its own(extremely painful process)...

He was referring to my post which I deleted. Sorry to cause the confusion.

[glockfan]

He was referring to my post which I deleted. Sorry to cause the confusion.



why did you deleted it? your history is the best example i've ever heard on how much pain someone can take ; it's very important for everyone to know such situation exist!!

then maybe people will realize that,supeudol,morphin,demerol ectecte...has their place ,and it's exactly for such cases like yours and mine that such meds are designed for....

at the end of the day, no one can understand really what it can be to live day after day with such bright pain in tow, like what you have to support.

me i'm probably not at your level yet!! but trailing spondylosis like i do since a decade, isn't going to improve by itself with a swing of a magic wand.

knowing what i know now about PAIN,if i was personally affected to such very,very high level as you seems to be , taking meds would be an absolute no brainer. me i'm about to get rid of a great part of that silly pain i'm suffering from since 10 years, and i hope the same to you,sincerly.

[Traffer]

why did you deleted it? your history is the best example i've ever heard on how much pain someone can take ; it's very important for everyone to know such situation exist!!

then maybe people will realize that,supeudol,morphin,demerol ectecte...has their place ,and it's exactly for such cases like yours and mine that such meds are designed for....

at the end of the day, no one can understand really what it can be to live day after day with such bright pain in tow, like what you have to support.

me i'm probably not at your level yet!! but trailing spondylosis like i do since a decade, isn't going to improve by itself with a swing of a magic wand.

knowing what i know now about PAIN,if i was personally affected to such very,very high level as you seems to be , taking meds would be an absolute no brainer. me i'm about to get rid of a great part of that silly pain i'm suffering from since 10 years, and i hope the same to you,sincerly.

i deleted it because after reconsidering it, I thought it was whining and embarrassing. Fooey, Had I known that it would actually help someone out I would have never deleted it. ...And I didn't copy it either. Sigh.

[Thundarstick]

I would like to clarify my thoughts on "over prescription". Many times it's over prescribed for acute injuries and complaints. I believe many problems start with initial overt prescriptions.

Folks who have chronic, documented pain inducing injuries and maladies, documentation should be required of the physician , and verification from the patient.

To deny there is an opioid epidemic, one would have to have be isolated from their community, I would think.

[MrWolf]

As has been pointed out, the problem with using the broad brush is there are a lot of folks in some pretty bad pain that - yes rely on - pain meds to take the edge off to function. People think nothing of spending a morning shopping. I do that and can't move for the rest of the day. Sucks planning your life around pain and then having politicians make it so I am forced to do that similar trip every month because heaven forbid a 58 year old man can be responsible. I asked for a single prescription for backup in case of emergency. Was told I was the first person to ask for that and denied. Local rain storms ended washing out a few streets that were closed for almost two weeks. Luckily I had been there the morning the main road closed for repairs that afternoon. I agree with others in that hold the person taking the meds responsible.

[rl69]

Opined epidemic ? Yes I believe people abuse drugs,hell at one time I did. I also believe the "epidemic" is blown out of proportion to justify the further funding of drug companies to solve the "problem"

[glockfan]

when i think about it a little,i'm reflecting that only some decades ago, in my situation i would have had no choice than resting in a rock'n'chair all day long.painkillers help me going through out a full workday, whereas 30 or 40 years ago,would had been condemned to take my illness as is , with no other choice than disability.

[mold maker]

Unless you've experienced that level of chronic pain, you can't imagine the need. I passed a 5X7 mm kidney stone and had 9 teeth pulled at one setting without anything but regular ibuprofen. That said, the constant pain in my lower back is another story. Physical therapy and meloxicam help but I can't get groceries even using the electric cart. My social life has been reduced to trips to the Dr for momma and me. In between, about one morning a week, I can make it downstairs to the loading room and back. Usually, it's just to check to see that everything is OK and sort some brass
Fear of addiction keeps me from asking for real pain relief. I saw 2 friends devastated by opioid use and my best buddy committed suicide. I refuse to take the chance.
I don't look for pity and am not being brave. I've been married for 54 years and lived a gifted life. If I had the chance to do it all over, other than a couple foolish mistakes, I'd do it all again.

[MrWolf]

when i think about it a little,i'm reflecting that only some decades ago, in my situation i would have had no choice than resting in a rock'n'chair all day long.painkillers help me going through out a full workday, whereas 30 or 40 years ago,would had been condemned to take my illness as is , with no other choice than disability.

From my experience back then a lot turned to alcohol for relief. I know runs heavy in my family going back aways as all used their back/legs/knees making a living. I was even told by my father that going to college was taking the easy way out. Thinks different now and I am the first male in my family's history to go to go to college and I still ended up screwing my back and neck up!

[Mytmousemalibu]

The thing about moderate too severe chronic pain is that it can be so insidious and overbearing without anyone else around you knowing what you are going through. In what is probably half or more of chronic pain sufferers, we don't show any outward appearance of our conditions; our pain and suffering isn't worn on a sleeve. Its not like seeing a splint or cast or crutches on someone and having a visual marker for pain. Sure, there folks that are contrary to that ideology and that includes me at times. You can see it in someones posture, movements and body language. You can see pain in peoples eyes. But, most of the time we blend right in without anyone else knowing. Like I said, insidious. Then theres the occasion where people fully well know you have a condition and they dont bother to care or are purposely forgetful that we might require a little consideration. Most people wouldn't ask a guy on crutches to help them carry a new couch into the house but they get upset with us if we have any reservation because we look fine. I run into that scenario all the time beings its fairly unusual for people my age to be so messed up. I would kill to be able to help and volunteer as if I was in perfect health. Those also wearing these shoes understand, the majority of those on the outside of the bubble are quick to shun and or become frustrated with you for having a disability as if I had chosen this.

I hate it, being miserable all the time is just flat depressing and a poor way to have to live. It eats away at you like an acid, little by little, day by day. Not only is it hard on you, its not great on your family, your friends, your relationships in general. There is no flipside or upshot to be in this lot. It just plain stinks. For you all that just carry on without the pain management, you have my admiration, I don't think I could hack that for that long. I know how miserable I feel without something to control my pain and I don't think I would make it all that long before I completely lost the will to live and ended my suffering. In a moment of self reflection; that was really hard to type, to acknowledge that and just being honest with myself; sitting here with my eyes all welled up. Never ending pain can absolutely push a person into a corner, boxing you in with no escape except for the ultimate one. I can sympathize with folks that are in a state of depression, our wonderful Veterans that suffer from PTSD.You see, chronic pain is more than capable of destroying lives just the same as any prescription or street drug. It can take so much away from you. Every waking minute it's right there or just around the corner waiting to take away your quality of life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[glockfan]

here is a crushing testifying speech that explain a lot concerning this topic here. this guy is well known and guys and gals of my age might even have listened to PANTHERA at one point .this guy is philipp anselmo,and he got back from hell,one of the rare person who won it's battle against opioids......this
video is crushing for me , it really makes me think hard. i'd ask you to listen to the entire video. it's really revealing.

the guy started on opioid for medical reasons, in fact ,like me, he was suffering from a degenerative discs illness, like many among us ; except he climbed the ladder to a much higher height than most of us ; fortunately for us .



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imWmJadj1NY

[jimlj]

In my earlier post I may have used a broad brush to paint the problem, but in my case it was 100% accurate. I have visited with other patients of the same doctor who received a similar prescription, and had fairly similar results with the pain following the surgery. I quite like the doctor, and don't necessarily blame him for the over prescribing of pain meds. I am firmly convinced he was taught this practice in medical school.

I know some people have chronic pain and need these type of medications. Some if not all become addicted to them after long term use. What I was trying to point out is not all people need an opioid for pain, especially the amount prescribed. In my case the hassle of refilling a 10 pill prescription certainly would have been a deterrent to taking more Percocet for any lingering pain I was experiencing. Although I don't wish to go through another hernia surgery, if that time ever happens, I'd try ibuprofen before Percocet, because in MY CASE, I don't think a stronger pain med was needed. I'm not claiming to be a super stud who tolerates pain, what I am claiming is doctors are taught to prescribe meds when they are not needed.

[MaryB]

The thing about moderate too severe chronic pain is that it can be so insidious and overbearing without anyone else around you knowing what you are going through. In what is probably half or more of chronic pain sufferers, we don't show any outward appearance of our conditions; our pain and suffering isn't worn on a sleeve. Its not like seeing a splint or cast or crutches on someone and having a visual marker for pain. Sure, there folks that are contrary to that ideology and that includes me at times. You can see it in someone posture, movements and body language. You can see pain in peoples eyes. But, most of the time we blend right in without anyone else knowing. Like I said, insidious. Then theres the occasion where people fully well know you have a condition and they dont bother to care or are purposely forgetful that we might require a little consideration. Most people wouldn't ask a guy on crutches to help them carry a new couch into the house but they get upset with us if we have any reservation because we look fine. I run into that scenario all the time beings its fairly unusual for people my age to be so messed up. I would kill to be able to help and volunteer as if I was in perfect health. Those also wearing these shoes understand, the majority of those on the outside of the bubble are quick to shun and or become frustrated with you for having a disability as if I had chosen this.

I hate it, being miserable all the time is just flat depressing and a poor way to have to live. It eats away at you like an acid, little by little, day by day. Not only is it hard on you, its not great on your family, your friends, your relationships in general. There is no flipside or upshot to be in this lot. It just plain stinks. For you all that just carry on without the pain management, you have my admiration, I don't think I could hack that for that long. I know how miserable I feel without something to control my pain and I don't think I would make it all long before I completely lost the will to live. In a moment of self reflection; that was really hard to type, to acknowledge that and just being honest with myself. You see, chronic pain is more than capable of destroying lives just the same as any prescription or street drug. It can take so much away from you. Every waking minute it's right there or just around the corner waiting to take away your quality of life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I ran into that when I parked in a handicap spot at Walmart. This rather young woman screamed at me to get out of HER parking spot. I asked if she had handicap tags... nope, no mirror tag either. I have the mirror tag. Sure I walk okay going into the store but by the time I come out the cart is the only thing holding me up. I told her to go away and went in, she called the cops so when I came out they asked me why I parked there. I pointed at the handicap tag on the mirror and then said "Notice the muscles standing out on my arms? That is because my low back pain is off the charts". Cops then asked the girl for her handicap tag and she started stammering and said I don't have one. Guess who got the ticket? LOL Wasn't me! And the cop was nice and helped me load groceries into the truck!

Only time my pain is visible is after walking to far or lifting heavy, or like today bouncing on the lawnmower seat... walking hunchback now until my back settle down again... mowing was my main chore of the day. Have some little fix it chores lined up like reset the gap on the barley crusher for my beer brewing system, last batch efficiency had dropped. My sister wanted beer for her 4th of July party so next weekend she is coming down to bottle it(I keg). I told her I am not standing there capping bottles for an hour... and I am going to tinker on a radio that died after the lightning strike. My bedside shortwave radio...

[MrWolf]

Thanks folks. Helps a bit knowing others are fighting the same battle and feel the same. My latest injury cost me a marriage. Not easy living with someone in constant pain. Sleeping on the floor isn't conducive to a marriage. Like Chris said, I don't look disabled either. Slightly out of shape now but still look better than most. Her friends swore I just didn't like them or going out. You never know till the chips are down.

[bob208]

I lay this problem right on the doctors. they prescribe the strongest pain killer for a hang nail or a sprained joint.

[Geezer in NH]

End the drug war now!!! I keep repeating that.

Pain manigment should be between you and your Doctor. No cops or congressmen

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have seen the problem first hand. I worked for the phone company installing phone systems and occasionally worked in hospitals. The telephone equipment room was always located next to the ER. I saw people screaming for pain killers. Some had to be restrained before they hurt themselves or others. For a few months I, along with others worked in a mental institution. That is where the druggies end up when they have exhausted any help from friends or relatives. I witnessed one poor guy being unloaded from an ambulance in a straight jacket. They took the man out of the ambulance, laid him on the ground and then stood him up like he was an ironing board. H was in a catatonic state. I was amazed at some who turned themselves in for drug addiction. In outward appearance they could be bankers or successful business men. When drug addicts came up to the corner to turn themselves in the desk clerk would tell them, "follow the yellow line". They had painted a yellow line in the side walk across the lobby, out the door and around the building. I came in one day and saw the glass door had been shattered and replaced by plywood. During the night a druggie had tried to break in, in the hope he could get some dope. He had terrorized the night operator. On one occasion I and a coworker were modifying a switch board on the evening shift in a chemical company. We were working in the lobby. We could see the street from where we were working. We noticed an old car kept driving up and down past the building so we told the security guard. He said in happens a lot. They think they might break in and get drugs but they opiates or locked in a big safe so they are wasting their time. The problem is very real and getting worse. All that I have related to you happened over 30 years ago The really sad thing was to see the flower of our youth have their lives ruined by this pestilence. I lost a nephew from a heroin overdose. He was 26 and a nicer young man you would never meet.