Which bullet to cast for an Oracle and 700P?

[emt1581]

I have two .308's, as stated in the title, a DPMS Oracle and a Rem. 700P. I should probably just sell the 700P as I have pretty much no use for it and only ever shot it a few times to sight it in. But right now I need to buy a mold and powder so I can start cranking out some rounds.

My main concerns are 1) That the finished rounds actually fit/feed reliably in the guns, 2) They are accurate, and 3) I get some nice distance out of them. Now for .308win I wouldn't think 300-500yds would be that unrealistic but someone told me those are really difficult numbers when looking at cast.

Thoughts? What's a good bullet to cast for what I've outlined?

As far as powder, I was going to buy a few jugs of IMR-4895 but I saw it suggested that 4831 would be better for the bullet/round. Again, what do you think?

Thanks!

[sigep1764]

I don't have a powder suggestion, just a powder characteristic thought. The DPMS is a gas impingement system, right? If so, I might research a powder that is a gas producer to fully operate the bolt. Also, to insure chambering in the AR rifle, you might need to full length size your brass. For the 700, full length sizing your brass the first time and then neck sizing after that might provide more accuracy as the brass is fire formed to your chamber. Its said that is easier on the brass as well. Theres a good thread going on about lead pot annealing and full length sizing vs neck sizing to avoid case head separation and lengthening the life of brass right now. Its been a wealth of info.

[emt1581]

Something to think about with the gas.

Any other thoughts on casting for an AR-10? In my reading I'm starting to get the feeling that no one casts for AR's in general. It seems to be far more prevalent for pistols and bolt actions than it is for semi-auto rifles. Sure would love some suggestions on bullets and powder if I'm misinterpreting though...

Thanks

[sigep1764]

Lots of AR casters on here, but from what I've seen its mainly 5.56. If I were gonna cast for 308, I would go to NOE and look at Ranch Dog Tumble Lube molds and use powder coat. Next, I would go to Accurate and look at their slick sided molds for powder coating. What powder do you use to load j words in 308?

[emt1581]

Lots of AR casters on here, but from what I've seen its mainly 5.56. If I were gonna cast for 308, I would go to NOE and look at Ranch Dog Tumble Lube molds and use powder coat. Next, I would go to Accurate and look at their slick sided molds for powder coating. What powder do you use to load j words in 308?

I appreciate that. $137+shipping is steep compared to $30 for a Lee, but I'd like to have good results so the money isn't a deal breaker in the least. And I see there are some options there without gas checks which is great because I do powder coat with my tumbler and toaster oven. I'll also check out Accurate.

What bullet weight do you suggest?

As for powder...not sure what "j words" means but as I mentioned I was going to buy IMR-4895 but saw IMR-4831 was suggested specifically for the .308win by someone that seemed a hell of a lot more knowledgeable than I on reloading.

Thanks again!!

[Danw791]

I cast for a DPMS G2 Hunter 20 inch barrel .308. I use the lee 180 grain powder coated and gas checked sized to .311. I am using IMR 4895 max load provided by Lyman's handbook for cast bullets. I get full reliability and great acuracy with this combo. Been grouping 3/4 inch at 100 yards. Chronoed load clocks around 2300 fps.

[popper]

H4895, 165gr cast, powder coated does 2400 from lr308 carbine and near MOA @ 200. It does need a hard alloy,something like #2 heat treated. The Lee 165 SIL is supposed to be good but personally I'd go with a custom mould - you need to push fps to get that range and have terminal performance. I have a 31-165B 4x that I don't use - I use the C version - both have a small meplat and are designed for the 308W ball seat. IMHO, start with one lb. 4895 and see how you like it. Varget, H335, several others work but 4895 is just so usable. 4831 is slower and may work better, some use rl17,19 also - I haven't tried them. Light loads of slow powder can cause trouble.
I don't use/like TL rifle boolits!

[emt1581]

I cast for a DPMS G2 Hunter 20 inch barrel .308. I use the lee 180 grain powder coated and gas checked sized to .311. I am using IMR 4895 max load provided by Lyman's handbook for cast bullets. I get full reliability and great acuracy with this combo. Been grouping 3/4 inch at 100 yards. Chronoed load clocks around 2300 fps.

Good to know some do use Lee. However, I read somewhere that out of a 16" barrel the 180gr would be a waste and not to go above 150gr (or was it 160gr??). Like I said, I'm not opposed to buying the more expensive molds but Lee molds cost next to nothing just to try. Plus they need zero maintenance and will do fine in storage for years. I pulled a steel .380/9mm mold out of it's orange plastic case after a year or two in storage (after a move) and it was all rusted. Pissed me off because I paid well over $100 for it.

On the gas checks, I've never used them. I know some people just buy them. At one point I considered buying a Freechex since I already have a drill press. I heard you can use soda/beer cans to make them. But then, on another forum, people have been talking about milling/shaving their molds so that the bullet doesn't need a gas check. Because apparently if the bullet has the gas check tail sticking out with no gas check it screws it up. Not sure if it causes keyhole or what but it seems everyone agrees it's not going to work for decent distances.

Thanks for the info!

[emt1581]

H4895, 165gr cast, powder coated does 2400 from lr308 carbine and near MOA @ 200. It does need a hard alloy,something like #2 heat treated. The Lee 165 SIL is supposed to be good but personally I'd go with a custom mould - you need to push fps to get that range and have terminal performance. I have a 31-165B 4x that I don't use - I use the C version - both have a small meplat and are designed for the 308W ball seat. IMHO, start with one lb. 4895 and see how you like it. Varget, H335, several others work but 4895 is just so usable. 4831 is slower and may work better, some use rl17,19 also - I haven't tried them. Light loads of slow powder can cause trouble.
I don't use/like TL rifle boolits!

I usually add a few inches of solder to the lead when I'm making ingots in my little cast iron pot. But I'm not sure what #2 heat treated means or what specific amounts of solder/quenching/etc. to do to achieve the #2 heat treatment.

As for powder, what I did before the last election was put away some 8lb. jugs of Unique knowing I could essentially use it for any of my guns aside from hot .460S&W and .50BMG, both of which I have 1lb. bottles of specific powder for. But I quickly learned that while I can use the Unique and get very good results in pistols, with rifles I need to be stocking something else. And again, this is specifically just to store/have for when the political climate might turn on us and we are no longer able to buy powder. So for rifle calibers the 4895 looked to be as versatile as Unique is for pistols. And since .223/5.56 and .308 are the two calibers I shoot the most, that's what I'm wanting to plan a good powder/loading for with this thread when it comes to the components.

I actually already have a pound of the H-4895 so I could test with that even though the cheaper IMR is somewhat different than the Hodgdon. Then depending on accuracy and how the bullets work out, maybe I stick with one of the 4895's, or maybe I try one of the others suggested. Problem is, I only have a 100yd range at my range and the 1000yd range that also has ranges over 100yds is around 2 hours from me and I'm not a member (although I was invited to join). But I'm guessing I can somewhat gauge accuracy if I compare results from 25, 50, and 100yds to estimate what further may look like....no?

Thanks for sharing!!

[quilbilly]

Last week I received an Mihec MP 311-410 brass 130 gr mold as a prize and yesterday I shot the first few boolits using the shallow HP setting from it in my 308 "scout rifle" on my 42 yard home range with four powders giving velocities from 1650 to 1850 fps. The powders were 2400, Unique, 5744, and RE-7. All produced tight cloverleafs with occasional "same holes". The best was with Unique! There is a group buy going on on this site, I think, for this exact mold. Apparently this mold is popular with 300 Blackout shooters. My testing is far from done but this may be a thought for you.

[sigep1764]

J words is what the forum calls Jacketed Bullets. "Jacketed Bullets" is somewhat foul language around here lol.

[emt1581]

J words is what the forum calls Jacketed Bullets. "Jacketed Bullets" is somewhat foul language around here lol.

Oh ok. I appreciate the clarification.

Personally, I'm pretty happy with powder coating. I know it's not the same as jacketing but it does the job well enough, at least for pistols. I have yet to load/shoot any of my .223 PC bullets.

Thanks!

[popper]

#2 is an alloy, 90/5/5 Pb/Sb/Sn that is the 'normal' start point for beginners. 165gr is the normal 'target' weight for the 1:10 308W. IMR 4895 is supposed to be a tad 'better' performance wise than the H4895 (which can be safely downloaded a LOT). You will need GC, home made haven't worked well for me. AR10 is fun to shoot but not inexpensive. Waco, Bama & others (L.G.) have done pretty good with cast in rifle. As you PC, cook 1hr, drop into ICE water to get hardness up - heat treating.

[emt1581]

#2 is an alloy, 90/5/5 Pb/Sb/Sn that is the 'normal' start point for beginners. 165gr is the normal 'target' weight for the 1:10 308W. IMR 4895 is supposed to be a tad 'better' performance wise than the H4895 (which can be safely downloaded a LOT). You will need GC, home made haven't worked well for me. AR10 is fun to shoot but not inexpensive. Waco, Bama & others (L.G.) have done pretty good with cast in rifle. As you PC, cook 1hr, drop into ICE water to get hardness up - heat treating.

Wait...so from the toaster oven to ice water?? I'd think that would only harden the paint at that point, not the lead itself.

So it sounds like maybe get a 165gr mold, a bag of gas checks, a pound of IMR 4895 and get started. Right?

You mentioned the Hogdgon can be safely downloaded "a LOT"...are you inferring THAT is the one to get or is the IMR?

And the 165gr. isn't wasted in a 16" barrel?

Thanks!!

[popper]

So it sounds like maybe get a 165gr mold, a bag of gas checks, a pound of IMR 4895 and get started Good place to start. Hardness of antimony alloys is controlled by how fast they are cooled. H4895 has a section for 'youth' low recoil loads, IMR isn't the same.
LR308 carbine 2400 fps, 200 yds. Shot a boar razer (rem?) jacketed at the target & clipped the top so cast BC is much lower. my cast hits were just below middle.
222184
with these.
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[emt1581]

So it sounds like maybe get a 165gr mold, a bag of gas checks, a pound of IMR 4895 and get started Good place to start. Hardness of antimony alloys is controlled by how fast they are cooled. H4895 has a section for 'youth' low recoil loads, IMR isn't the same.
LR308 carbine 2400 fps, 200 yds. Shot a boar razer (rem?) jacketed at the target & clipped the top so cast BC is much lower. my cast hits were just below middle.


Ok, so definitely bucket quench then. What's up with the tips not having paint? Is that just how the paint attached? I guess as long as the base is coated that's all that contacts.

Thanks

[emt1581]

Wanted to return to this and ask why no one suggested swaging? Is this not possible when shooting .308win?

Otherwise, at least from the vids I've seen on .223, this looks like it would let me have ****ed (really?...or darned) near manufacturer performance/specs. But maybe I have a lot more to learn and swaging is just not a smart idea for getting great performance.

Thanks