35 rem loads

[mainiac]

Ive been shooting the 35 alot lately.Seeing as i have a 8 pound keag of h-335 (1985 lot), i have been shooting this powder. I have been using a batch of alloy that is ww +5% babbit. 2000 f.p.s. is about the limit this alloy can be shot, any higher,and i start getting bad fliers. If i harden these boolits up harder, can i get into 2150-2200 f.p.s. with accuracy? My gun is a 1983 marlin, with micro-groove. I have been shooting the rcbs 200, and it shoots real well below 2000 f.p.s. Plan on hunting deer with this gun this fall, and want all the HP i can get, along with accuracy. Shot a guess load today with v133 powder (99 lot) and 2 5 shot groups looked better than any group ive shot so far with 335. Sometimes a person hits a good load right off the bat! BTW, 2020 av velocity, with no pressure signs. I also took 335 up to 2160 today, but had some 3-4 inch fliers, and this load really wacks the face and shoulder. Starting to get flattened primers at this speed.

[35remington]

Kinda doubt the flattened primers at that speed, most likely the primer is taking on the impressions of the bolt fact a little bit, but you're there and I'm not. Also don't know the headspace you've got. How hard are your bullets? 12?

If you're getting decent accuracy with a mostly wheelweight alloy at 2020 fps, that's excellent, what is there to worry about?

That would work on deer just fine.

We all should make deer loads that well. Not sure you need any advice at all from us.

Can't see why a harder bullet 150 fps faster would help anything. Unless you want to do it to see what happens, but you've got the deer load right there already.

[Buckshot]

................Check: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=23951&highlight=Remington+loads

Not a micro-Groove bbl, but the data might be worthwhile to you.

.................Buckshot

[GabbyM]

Have you weighed those RCBS boolits?
My RCBS 35-200-FN bullets finish out at 215gr. You may have more gun their than you think.

[Bass Ackward]

Change lube.

[Bret4207]

I don't know that a 200+ gr boolit at 2150 will do anything it wouldn't do at 2000 fps, except maybe expand a bit faster. Either way I'll bet you get through and through performance with either load. Max range will be what?, 100-125 yards? Another 100 fps won't make it a 250 yard rifle.

Find an accurate load and call it good. How much more dead do you want your deer?

[twotrees]

Since Factory 200 gr loads come out of most 35 Remingtons at 1950-2020 FPS ( Those condom Bullets) what else are you trying for??

That load at ranges suitable for 35 Rem, has and will kill what you aim it at, at those vel's.

If you need more power than that you need to look at 350 Rem Mag/ 35 Whel, 356 win/358win.

Just my Opinion and we all know all of us have one of those.

Good Shooting,

[mainiac]

Well, ill begin by saying that I think speed kills! Ive hunted deer for years with my 25-06,and a .270. I know how these kill! This 35 aint the same animal. Ive cronoed factory loads that would barely do 1800 f.p.s. Ive seen caribuo in Quebec that took multiple 200 gr rem corelocks right fare in the boiler room,and keep right on walking. My father bought this gun for me when i was a boy, and the only deer i ever lost was with this gun. This is why i want all the speed i can get. If this gun cant kill like a 25-06, then i want a boolit that will at least go threw and out the other side,and leave a good blood trail.Anyways,,,, bass ackwards, what would i change to for a lube,and would it allow high speeds with the same alloy? thanks, BTW, I can get groups around an inch @50 yards, as long as i stay around 2000.

[mainiac]

Kinda doubt the flattened primers at that speed, most likely the primer is taking on the impressions of the bolt fact a little bit, but you're there and I'm not. Also don't know the headspace you've got. How hard are your bullets? 12?

If you're getting decent accuracy with a mostly wheelweight alloy at 2020 fps, that's excellent, what is there to worry about?

That would work on deer just fine.

We all should make deer loads that well. Not sure you need any advice at all from us.

Can't see why a harder bullet 150 fps faster would help anything. Unless you want to do it to see what happens, but you've got the deer load right there already.

What i have in mind for this gun is really thick brush hunting! I hunted with a chum of mine years ago, that used a 35 whelen with nosler partitions. The deer he shot just painted the brush on both sides! There was NO problem following them blood trails! As i alluded to in another post, i am used to a 25-06 100 gr bullet at 3450 f.p.s. This is a BANG AND FLOP load! The 30-30,35rem just dont do this,that I have seen. I want to simplify my life, and want to use a lever gun with peep sight, want to get away from heavy scoped guns and get back to what my fore-fathers used.BTW, as an ex-br shooter, I cant tolerate wide fliers!

[compass will]

years ago I can remember my Grand Father used this same cartridge for PA white tails. He had a Remington pump that I think held 5 shots. Grandpop used to say he had 4 shots to clear the brush and one to kill the deer :-D

That gun is lost in my Dads Attic. I can't wait until we find it so I can clean it up and add it to the "shooters collection".

[jhalcott]

I've hunted around Patton Maine with a 14" Contender in 35 Remington. The deer I shot with it,using a 200 grain 358315 bullet, didn't go far. About 50 yards, and left a fine blood trail. My bullets were cast of a Lyman #2 alloy about 15 BHN, which I believe is a bit hard for this purpose. A 13 BHN bullet from the same mold will go clear thru a deer at 100 yards if started at 2000 fps! NO 35 rem. is going to have the energy of a good 25-06! A good hit from either will put meat in your freezer though.

[35remington]

Truthfully, you're gilding the lily. To expect the .35 Remington to act like another cartridge when it is just fine for what you envision, and the ranges you're going to do it at, is unnecessary IMO.

I've shot a lot of deer with a .35 Remington, and that included using cast bullets. It works just fine.

Most factory I've chronoed in the Remington brand runs between 1970 and 2100 fps, with the occasional rare lot at near 2200. The bullet itself is made for this speed, and a cast bullet of wheelweights expands and penetrates in a very similar fashion to the Core-Lokt. I promise you it is not going to bounce off any deer.

Expecting a deer to drop in its tracks at the shot for every shot you take is unrealistic as well. I've shot them with bigger and faster than your 25-06, and it's not uncommon for the deer to run from 30-60 yards after the shot depending upon its state of agitation before the bullet hit. The more experience with deer hunting you have, the less you believe in "bang-flops." Your 25 isn't a bang-flop load on every shot either. You've been lucky.

Past a certain point, more destruction from a shoulder fired arm doesn't kill the deer faster. If you harden up the bullet alloy, you're trading a little slower bullet expansion for marginally more energy.

Doesn't matter. Period.

The good accuracy and bullet upset you have with your current combination is the equivalent of the factory load I mentioned earlier, and there are thousands of deer hunters who have been quite satisfied with that.

A .35 has more than ample killing power for a whitetail at the speed you're running. In many circles it's considered an ideal deer round for moderate range hunting. A proper hit will not disappoint you.

[Larry Gibson]

Maniac

Good advise from all so far. My .35 is a different in that it is a rebarreled M91 Mauser. It has a Shilen 26" barrel on it with a 14" twist. The Remington 150 gr factory load pushes 2500 fps and the 200 gr factory load runs right at 2150. I'd expect a little less out of your Marlin's shorter barrel. I push the RCBS 35-200-FN cast of AC WWs at 2120 fps with excellent accuracy. These bullets weight 214 gr fully dressed. I'd also expect this same load to be around 2000 fps out of a 20" Marlin barrel. I'm using WW cases and milsurp 4895 with WLR primers. That load is 100% loading density.

Nice thing about this load on deer is you can pret near "eat up to the bullet hole". So I almost always put the bullet through the heart which means I'm most often punching through one or both shoulders (leg actually). Meat damage is minimal and they do not go far with one or two broken legs and a hole through their heart. I quit depending on "bang-flop" years ago when it failed to happen several times with very good hits from HV rifles such as your 25-06.

Larry Gibson

[Bass Ackward]

bass ackwards, what would i change to for a lube,and would it allow high speeds with the same alloy? thanks, BTW, I can get groups around an inch @50 yards, as long as i stay around 2000.


Bottom line is that you have three choices. Change powder, harder bullet, or change lube. If you bought an 8# keg, you ain't goinna want to hear me tellin ya to change powder, so I picked lube.

If your lube is working well, your groups should peak and then open slowly. Especially in that slow of a twist. Could be a harder bullet since you have a micro groove, but I figure you knew that. But if your accuracy peaks and the next charge starts throwing wild fliers, that's lube or size that comes from lube. That's what I see in the winter especially as the lube thickens to the point it starts sizing my slugs as they hit a certain velocity much like a tire will hydroplane at a certain level.

What to tell you for lube is hard to say. The .... highest odds (for success) comes from LBT Blue soft cause it smears away to nothing in your fingers while most Beeswax lubes roll up like a bugger and have to be purged. (courtesy of BA Bore.) :grin: I know of a guy using Irish Spring soap. So who can say.

[Bret4207]

You won't get "bang-flop" with very many guns regardless of speed/caliber. If you want bang-flop you shoot to break both the shoulders or take a head shot. They will go down right there. Of course you might have to do the old coup degrace, but there won't be any tracking.

I don't think you're going to get what you want from any traditional lever gun caliber. If you want speed get a Weatherby and vaporize the deer. Cast doesn't act like the Weatherby type loads. You'll get a result similar to the Core-loct/Silvertip- probably through and through penetration and an adequate blood trail for 20-150 yards. Shot placement is still king, regardless of speed and caliber. A gut shot deer from a 340 Weatherby will probably run as far as a gut shot deer with cast.

[mainiac]

I want to use this gun, and i know that this cartridge has been used for many years. But, 35 rem, in defense of the 25-06, if I can put my bullet right in behind the front shoulder, you want to beleave that the deer will cart-wheel right there! Ive shot 400 pound caribue the same way. Breaking bones with a 100 gr bullet is asking to much, i think. But when i can tuck a bullet behind the shoulder plate, its lights out. Same goes for neck shots.

[Larry Gibson]

Behind the shoulders on a broadside shot is only a lung shot deer (or caribou - I've shot them too) and they can go quite a distance before they bleed out. Granted a 100 gr bullet in your 25-06 is a varmint bullet and not meant for penetrating through bones. On said broad side shots you do get a lot more lung damage because the bullet blows up. I'm not denegrating the 25-06 although I'd use a 115-120 gr bullet on deer. I've seen many deer and elk killed with a 25-06 using such bullets. Many were not "bang-flop" either. However, the 200 gr RCBS cast bullet at 2000 fps is capable of more penetration than a deer requires, it will pentrate through both shoulders and a distance farther. Trust those of us who have been there and got the T-shirt. Try the RCBS bullet at 2000 fps, put the bullet through the heart and one or both shoulders and you see the dee won't go far at all.

Larry Gibson

[Buckshot]

................No bullet or boolit is magic or a sure thing. Shot placement is paramount. None of this is new to anyone with a few deer seasons behind them. Also everyone will have tales of lightning strike kills or of those where the animal absorbed a number of shots before hitting the ground for good.

I've only killed 7 deer and one pig in my entire life. One deer was with cast and the pig was with cast. The deer was with the Lyman 311284 from my 03A1 Springfield at about 40 yards. Frontal neck shot and the boolit severed the windpipe, hit the spine and exited. He hit the ground in a heap. The pig was broadside with a 405gr Lee paper patched at 60 yards, 1600 fps MV, so maybe 1475 fps?? I dunno bu the rug was jerked out from under him.

Hunting in Cuba, NM (NW corner below Farmington) we saw a grandpa/grandson team who'd put five 7mm mags into a deer's neck before he was down for the count. Obviously didn't hit anything important.

From my buddy Al Phillips (a member here) who lives in Canada, and is a real hunter:

http://www.fototime.com/BB3D84E28CA83DE/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/0B9309A31F9C8FD/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/0856C82AB60FF54/standard.jpg

A closer view.

Al told me the story but I don't recall the details so I won't say to save me embarassment, but the result was the desired one. A 200 gr FN at 2K fps, placed correctly will do the deed.

...............Buckshot

[waksupi]

I guess my question would be, what is it you think a cast boolit CAN'T do? I have taken quite a bit of game with them, including with bullets in the weight, bore size, and velocity you are speaking of. Put them where they belong, and they will act just like a premium bullet.