Health care cost

[fatelk]

Moderator: I don't intend this to be political. If you determine it is or should be elsewhere, please move or delete at your discretion.

I know health care has been the big issue for some years now and it's all politics, but beyond the whole political fight, what's the deal with the actual cost of things?

We got a bit of a double whammy in the last month or so. My youngest daughter had to have wrist surgery last month, and then my wife just had a procedure for kidney stones. We haven't gotten all the bills yet for the wrist surgery, but what blew me away was the cost for the minimally invasive, outpatient procedure for kidney stones. The bill from the hospital alone, not including the doctor or anesthesiologist, is $24,000! Is the billing department dipping into the narcotics cabinet before making up these prices??

With our lousy coverage now this last month and a half is going to take us years to pay off, unless I sell off a whole bunch of guns and reloading gear. I don't mean to whine and gripe (well maybe a little), but it really has gotten to a shocking level. I know a lot of folks here have been through the same thing and worse.

Again, I don't mean to get political at all or talk about who and how pays for what, but I really have to wonder why everything costs so much? Why is it that they can do something for $500 in Mexico that costs $20,000 here? Yes, I know, politics and lawyers, but beyond that I just don't get it!

I know it's hard to keep politics out of this kind of thing but that's been hashed and rehashed so that's not what this is about. I'm just talking about real costs to real people. It's just frustrating that you have to go into major debt just to set foot into a hospital nowadays.

[glockfan]

doctors and hospitals are in ''business''' in the usa.

talk to canadians who are amputated of 50% of their incomes before even handling their hard earned wage.reason? universal healthcare system. now look at the quality of the service they receives. poor. in some provinces, even hazardous. no jokes.

[MyFlatline]

Attorney's and frivolous juries coupled with those who refuse to pay ( at least make an effort) MHO

[lightload]

Before you sell valued possessions, I urge you to consider making some minimum payment each month. I don't know where the money is going but suspect that the not for profit(ha)medical corporations are getting most of it. Having had back surgery, I know where you're coming from.

[osteodoc08]

Most doctors are not entrenched in the business side of things. At least I’m not nor are any of my colleagues. We’re hourly workers.

Hospitals and corporations on the other hand.......it’s ridiculous.

Don’t pay the bill. Call and negotiate for a lower rate and put it on a payment plan. The reason why it’s so much is you’re one of the few that actually want to pay their medical bills (compared to the whole). Want to get even more mad? Come see these idiots with their deservitude mentality and government insurance (Medicaid) that come to the ER for every little stupid thing and complain if they have to pay 50¢ while wanting to go back outside to smoke on our non smoking campus and drinking their big gulp while complaining of nausea and vomiting and demanding narcotics for their 10/10 pain while not even looking at the nurse because they’re playing candy crush on a newer iPhone than I have and having a difficult time taping the screen because of their disgustingly long and flamboyantly painted nails. Meanwhile, thanks to government surveys such as HCAPS and press Ganey scores, we can’t tell an idiot they’re idiots because our scores will drop and so won’t our reimbursements.

Last shift I had some 22yo female on disability and on Medicaid for “anxiety” that has had over 30 visits in the last 10 months for stupid stuff. None of which were true medical emergencies and she showed no evidence of a debilitating anxiety. We report the abuses, but nothing is ever done.

Want a good laugh, look at ZdoggMD parody and dark Vader spoofs.

The medical system is broke. I feel like I’ve done well if there are a few patients I’m actually able to help every shift.

[MyFlatline]

Before you sell valued possessions, I urge you to consider making some minimum payment each month. I don't know where the money is going but suspect that the not for profit(ha)medical corporations are getting most of it. Having had back surgery, I know where you're coming from.

Wrong quote

[MyFlatline]

Most doctors are not entrenched in the business side of things. At least I’m not nor are any of my colleagues. We’re hourly workers.

Hospitals and corporations on the other hand.......it’s ridiculous.

Don’t pay the bill. Call and negotiate for a lower rate and put it on a payment plan. The reason why it’s so much is you’re one of the few that actually want to pay their medical bills (compared to the whole). Want to get even more mad? Come see these idiots with their deservitude mentality and government insurance (Medicaid) that come to the ER for every little stupid thing and complain if they have to pay 50¢ while wanting to go back outside to smoke on our non smoking campus and drinking their big gulp while complaining of nausea and vomiting and demanding narcotics for their 10/10 pain while not even looking at the nurse because they’re playing candy crush on a newer iPhone than I have and having a difficult time taping the screen because of their disgustingly long and flamboyantly painted nails. Meanwhile, thanks to government surveys such as HCAPS and press Ganey scores, we can’t tell an idiot they’re idiots because our scores will drop and so won’t our reimbursements.

Last shift I had some 22yo female on disability and on Medicaid for “anxiety” that has had over 30 visits in the last 10 months for stupid stuff. None of which were true medical emergencies and she showed no evidence of a debilitating anxiety. We report the abuses, but nothing is ever done.

Want a good laugh, look at ZdoggMD parody and dark Vader spoofs.

The medical system is broke. I feel like I’ve done well if there are a few patients I’m actually able to help every shift.
Great post, I agree 100%

[GhostHawk]

For the last 15 years the medical profession has been running about a 40% per year inflation. While the rest of the economy runs at the 2% the carefully selected items the government tracks. To 4-6% real inflation economist's track.

10 years that is a 400% increase in your cost.

The medical profession decided that if the government is going to discount their bills and only pay half. They will just keep raising rates until they are all rich enough to not care.

But don't take my word for it.

Some of you are lucky, you still have choices for insurance. North Dakota we have 2, only 2 for the whole state. This one or that one. It used to be one.

Delay, Negotiate a better figure. Start at half of theirs. Then start minimal payments, don't miss any. Don't sell your possessions. Fight, battle, drag your feet. Take out some extra life insurance to pay it off if one of you dies. Make sure there is enough to bury that person also.

Not whole life, term.

[Beerd]

Ask for an itemized bill.
..

[rancher1913]

if they did away with the rule that says a emergency room can not turn you away if you can not pay, it would stop a lot of the illegals from getting service for free. they are conveniently visiting a relative in the USA when they go into labor and they walk away with out paying a cent. the hospital has to cover that expense somehow.

[bdicki]

And people that don't work get free health care.

[fatelk]

Unfortunately I can’t afford life insurance. I went through cancer over a decade ago. We caught it early and got rid of it. The doctor said after two years I was statistically “cured” because the odds of recurrence were the same as the general population. In other words it a total non-issue for me but since there’s a “history of cancer”, for me life insurance is completely unaffordable.

[fatelk]

The hospital said that since my insurance paid a percentage of the bill, there was nothing to negotiate on our part.

[Sweetpea]

The hospital said that since my insurance paid a percentage of the bill, there was nothing to negotiate on our part.

Try again.

Talk to somebody else.

Keep going up the ladder.

Be polite, and appeal to their sense of reason.

[osteodoc08]

The hospital said that since my insurance paid a percentage of the bill, there was nothing to negotiate on our part.



BS. I just negotiated a bill of 560 down to 370 and paid it off over the phone today for my sons surgery last fall. If they won’t budge tell them to pound sand and send to collections. Collection agencies PURCHASE YOUR DEBT for pennies on the dollar for the HOPE OF RECOVERING MORE THAN THEY PAID. (Then hospitals use the negative “owed” as a write off on taxes and receive credit for that as a “nonprofit”)

Stay strong brother. Don’t give up your life and hard earned wealth for some corporate greed.

[fatelk]

Thanks, we'll call again. My wife thinks something's funky with the bill anyway; things don't add up. Hopefully there's been a mistake, but I don't dare count on it.

It's crazy how bad it's gotten in the last decade. Just over ten years ago with the cancer, surgery and weeks of radiation, my cost was around $1500 iirc. Now, working a better job with the same company, a relatively minor procedure, in and out in a couple hours, my cost is many times that. Part of that is medical cost, and the other part is the company going full-cheapskate on benefits.

On the total opposite side of things, my wife informed me that we have indeed gotten the statement for our daughter's surgery. Our total part for actual surgery with a scalpel, including the surgeon, anesthesiologist, MRI, hospital and everything, after going through the same insurance: she says it came to just over $800. That seems super reasonable for what they did. I think we're big fans of Shriners Children's Hospital. I also think they get a lot of contributions to help keep the costs down.

This isn't going to totally break us; it just really hurts. I've read enough on here over the years to know that we're not alone in this sort of thing and some have gone through a lot worse. It's frustrating when you work so hard for so long pinching pennies to try to save a few, and something happens like this. I really won't have to sell off any gun stuff to pay the bills, but the responsible side of me kind of feels like I should.

I have to agree a bit about corporate greed. I used to not see it that way when I was younger, but over the years I've known enough corporate-minded folks to get an insight into how most of them think. It's all about the company and climbing that ladder; the next promotion, raise, and bonus. They talk the talk about "valuing the employees" but in reality we're just so much corporate property to be used and abused as they see fit. Dang I'm getting cynical!

[osteodoc08]

Not cynical fatelk, just brutally honest.

Stay strong brother. Prayers for health happiness and wholeness through this ordeal

[fatelk]

Thank you, I sincerely appreciate that!

[ih772]

Like the doc in this thread said, let it go to a debt collector. You have a lot more negotiating power with the debt collectors if you don't do a payment plan but offer a chunk of money to settle the debt instead. For example if your bill is $24,000 offer them $4,000 instead. Take a look at Dave Ramsey's youtube channel, it will tell you how to negotiate medical debt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvO8wbDurVE

[Hickory]

Trying not to make this political but, government regulations and the high cost of malpractice insurance for all those involved in healthcare accounts for a lot of the cost of healthcare.

[smokeywolf]

I firmly believe that the hospitals purposely overcharge hoping that people will just shrug their shoulders and figure that the bill is honest and ethical.

A few years ago I had to go several months without ins. Ended up in the ER with a kidney stone episode. I told them to hand me the bill before I left. They handed me a bill (not counting doctor's fee) for something north of $10,000. I said, how much is it if I pay cash right here and now. Girl walked away and came back with a new bill for $1,700 and change. She pointed out that my cash payment got me an 83% discount.

A couple of months later they sent me bills for odds and ends they hadn't put on the original bill. One was about $370 and another was around $190. I called them and told them I paid the bill at the time that services were rendered. They said that these services had not been included on that bill. Told them that was their mistake and I'm not accustomed to paying for other people's mistakes.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Moderator: I don't intend this to be political. If you determine it is or should be elsewhere, please move or delete at your discretion.

I know health care has been the big issue for some years now and it's all politics, but beyond the whole political fight, what's the deal with the actual cost of things?

We got a bit of a double whammy in the last month or so. My youngest daughter had to have wrist surgery last month, and then my wife just had a procedure for kidney stones. We haven't gotten all the bills yet for the wrist surgery, but what blew me away was the cost for the minimally invasive, outpatient procedure for kidney stones. The bill from the hospital alone, not including the doctor or anesthesiologist, is $24,000! Is the billing department dipping into the narcotics cabinet before making up these prices??

With our lousy coverage now this last month and a half is going to take us years to pay off, unless I sell off a whole bunch of guns and reloading gear. I don't mean to whine and gripe (well maybe a little), but it really has gotten to a shocking level. I know a lot of folks here have been through the same thing and worse.

Again, I don't mean to get political at all or talk about who and how pays for what, but I really have to wonder why everything costs so much? Why is it that they can do something for $500 in Mexico that costs $20,000 here? Yes, I know, politics and lawyers, but beyond that I just don't get it!

I know it's hard to keep politics out of this kind of thing but that's been hashed and rehashed so that's not what this is about. I'm just talking about real costs to real people. It's just frustrating that you have to go into major debt just to set foot into a hospital nowadays.In Mexico the doctors aren't $400,000 in debt before they start practicing, they don't have the same debt to research that we do (other countries pay for it through government grants instead of relying on the market to ensure the research pays for itself). Also, the care isn't up to the same standard as US healthcare is for those who can pay. For people without money, you probably get more than adequate care. Couple that with standard of living (the dollar is way more powerful in Mexico) and you're getting higher end care per dollar, assuming you can travel there.

The system in the US has been wierd for a while because we've let insurance determine too much. A former coworker, for example, was mad that the ACA raised his insurance rates, but didn't see any connections between the increased rate and the $30,000+ medical bill he got under his old insurance company, because pre-ACA plans could just refuse to cover stuff and leave you stuck with a bill. When that happens, the debt goes unpaid or into collections, which means that the cost of your care has to come from somewhere else or your care provider will go out of business.

Some people will blame EMTALA, but that's just going to mean more people dying. If we have a non-payment at my hospital it's 50/50 whether it's a rural family with no money or a poor family from the city. Either way, we spend $10,000 worth of life-saving materials to stop their GSW from bleeding or repair the skull fracture from falling off the horse/ATV/out of a tree/bit by dog. I've been at this hospital for a year without seeing a single illegal immigrant family.

Blame Obamacare! But the price increases were already an issue in the 1990s, when an ACA-like plan was first fielded by House Republicans.

The fundamental problem is on of market structure. Healthcare outcomes are best when you have a doctor you see regularly, when you are managing your care together, and when you're taking preventative action ahead of time. That means a lower patient to doctor ratio, which requires having more people go through 14 years of school and OJT to practice. That also means that you don't have the option to shop around constantly for the best price per visit. Insurance was one way to manage these costs, but you could also consider paying a career contract to maintain your doctor and then paying a reduced pre-item cost. Of course this means most people won't be able to afford coverage at all.

On the other hand emergency medicine is an inherently need-based market. When you have a stroke or break a bone you don't have time to shop for the best price, you go to what's available and you deal with it. Emergency care is in itself expensive because you need a lot of sterile equipment, well-trained people, and space that has to sit there costing money until it's needed. The high cost of entry means that most markets will be an oligopoly (a major city might have 3 hospital systems with an emergency system) and smaller markets will be a monopoly. There's not enough "business" to make competition worthwhile, and short of government intervention the monopoly will set the price. Again, EMTALA also means you turn away people at the door if you think they can't pay, or you shoulder the additional cost of every person who can't pay $40,000 for keeping a mother and child alive during delivery. Speaking of, our infant mortality rate is half what Mexico's is, and our maternal mortality rate is even better. On the other hand, wealthy families in other countries fly to our hospitals for things like neurosurgery, extra-corporeal medical operation (they hook you up to an artificial heart/lungs to repair yours), and other more advanced care.

So what's the solution? Well when you have a monopoly or oligopoly, you have two options. Either you regulate the market, or you deregulate the market and fewer people are provided goods. For healthcare that means something like a medicare-for-all with supplemental private care or a similar system, or it means more people just don't get healthcare without paying up front.

[glockfan]

Like the doc in this thread said, let it go to a debt collector. You have a lot more negotiating power with the debt collectors if you don't do a payment plan but offer a chunk of money to settle the debt instead. For example if your bill is $24,000 offer them $4,000 instead. Take a look at Dave Ramsey's youtube channel, it will tell you how to negotiate medical debt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvO8wbDurVE

woaw.that was very interesting. debt buyers pay like a dime on a collected dollar. basically,he advise to stop doin payments and make an offer of like 25 cents on a dollar.

[popper]

And watch for the insurance lifetime max. Slightly off subject but my simple haircut and my dog's simple grooming (haircut) went up 25% since the last time AND they expect a tip!

[reddog81]

Good luck fatelk. Hopefully you can reach a favorable resolution.

I visited a local clinic 2 years ago and asked how much a visit costs. The front desk told me it would be $140. I tried to pay before leaving but the paper work hadn't been processed yet so they couldn't bill me yet. A month later a bill for $250 shows up. I called and explained the situation and was told I needed to send them a letter asking to reduce the amount to the original $140. 6 months later a notice shows up saying I owe $250. I called again and the appeal had been denied and of course they never notified me.

I sent a check for $140 dollars and wrote "paid in full" in the note section. They cashed the check. 6 months later I get a notice from a collections agency because they sent the balance to collections. I asked to speak to someone in the legal department and explained the situation and never heard back from them. Using the "paid in full" argument only works if there is a dispute.

My amounts were very small but it's the principle. These health care organizations have reached the point where they only care about the bottom dollar. However the general public is just as big a problem. Everyone expects some magic cure for whatever they feel ails them and is generally unwilling to take any responsibility for their actions. The system is broken on both ends.

[dkf]

If the surgery bill total is $24,000 the insurance will probably give them approx 1/3rd of that and the hospital will settle for that. Insurance companies have agreements with hospitals.("participating") Everything is a complex mess. You used to be able able to pay cash for a doctors visit. Before Obamacare in 2006 and 2007 I didn't have insurance and I paid cash for a doctors visit. Cost me $35 because I paid cash and they didn't have to run it through insurance and all other ****. Now they legally can't do that anymore. Hell the last couple times I saw a "doctor" in the past year due to getting lyme disease I didn't even see a real doctor, just a nurse practitioner. I'm only 34 years old and how much the health care has went in the toilet and the massive cost increases is insane. When I was was young I actually had a private practice family doctor that was the doctor and one other person. You could get ahold of him any time of the day or night, great service and very reasonable prices. Big hospitals, insurance companies and government ruined it all. My grandparents lost their family doctor a few years ago, he closed down his practice due to having to hire 2 more people due to the new Obamacare regulations. He retired and I don't blame him one bit. I don't even want to think about what it will be like in another 34 years.

[Idaho45guy]

My company has an on-site health clinic with doctors and nurses. Everything they do and treat is free. They also have a physical therapist and just hired a mental health counselor (though I think she is nuttier than a granola bar).

We also have Premera insurance which is Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I'm not very familiar with it as I rarely am sick or injured and I also have full medical through the VA system.

I do know that people will come work for my company just for the medical benefits. My cost as a single person is $15 a pay check, or $30 a month. Yep. Serious.

If you have a high school diploma or GED and can use tools, then the company will hire anyone with a pulse to be an electronics assembler at $13.50 an hour. Lot's of older folks get hired just to have their medical issues taken care of.

[robg]

Over here we all pay weekly for our health care but people abuse the system usually foreign people who are visiting then leave without paying and the system can't be bothered to chase them as its not designed for charging at point of use like the European systems.

[mold maker]

When my Daughter was born, my bill after ins was $17. When my Grandaughter was born the bill was $1800. I doubt I'll ever see great-grandkids. They have seise enough to know what they can affford.

[Geezer in NH]

And people that don't work get free health care.

DUH simple answer don't work. Join the state. Be John Galt but get compensated for your prior contributions

[osteodoc08]

Who’s John Galt?

[dkf]

Who’s John Galt?

Pick up a copy of Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt

[osteodoc08]

Pick up a copy of Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt


Good book. I was being a little tongue in cheek.

[justashooter]

Last shift I had some 22yo female on disability and on Medicaid for “anxiety” that has had over 30 visits in the last 10 months for stupid stuff. None of which were true medical emergencies and she showed no evidence of a debilitating anxiety. We report the abuses, but nothing is ever done.

.

last year i lost most of my vision in a stroke. what grew back in compensatory gains is a poor approximation of what i had, but it works, with some effort. people like your patient are why i cannot get disability. 8% of my brain is fried, and i still have to work for a living. but then, looking at the difference between disability income and what i am making now...

[merlin101]

My company has an on-site health clinic with doctors and nurses. Everything they do and treat is free. They also have a physical therapist and just hired a mental health counselor (though I think she is nuttier than a granola bar).

We also have Premera insurance which is Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I'm not very familiar with it as I rarely am sick or injured and I also have full medical through the VA system.

I do know that people will come work for my company just for the medical benefits. My cost as a single person is $15 a pay check, or $30 a month. Yep. Serious.

If you have a high school diploma or GED and can use tools, then the company will hire anyone with a pulse to be an electronics assembler at $13.50 an hour. Lot's of older folks get hired just to have their medical issues taken care of.

WOW just plain WOW!
I work for a company with over 8000 employees, I pay aprox. $100 per week for health insurance that's roughly $5000 per year. My company pays about $8000 per year for my ins. I also have a $2000 per person deductible. That's a lot of money into the system and for me little to no return. What ever happened to the old days when you could get a major medical plan?

[smokeywolf]

While I do have to pay co-pays between $5.00 and $20.00 for office visits and $10.00 to $30.00 for pharmaceuticals, I've never paid a medical insurance premium and have never had a deductible of more than $50.00 for the whole family, every six months.

The trade-off is, my pension check each month is, compared to some, pretty small. Of course part of the reason for the smaller pension check is, Mrs. smokeywolf is considerably younger than me, so they'll have to keep paying her my pension and covering her medical needs for, hopefully, another 40+ years.

[Geezer in NH]

Who’s John Galt?

I know what you mean!!!!!!

[Geezer in NH]

Anyone wonder why the country has gone to heck? Eh!

[JimB..]

I understand that 30%+ of medical costs is paperwork related to billing.

It has been 20 years, but back when I ran a department that used FICO scores and other resources to assess consumer credit we learned that medical bill delinquency did not affect your FICO score. The actual calculation is confidential, and it has been a long time so who knows now. At the time the credit bureau answer was that medical billing is so colossally screwed up that if those balances were considered folks scores would jump all over the place and no longer represent the level of credit risk associated with other transaction types.

[fatelk]

Well, just called both the insurance and the hospital. Unbelievable. No help at all, they didn't want to even talk to us about it. "Just wait until you get the final bill and we can set up a payment plan."

After insurance it's still over $5k, for a minimally invasive outpatient procedure. Absolutely unreal. I'm not doing another payment plan. I just won't. I'll sell off my stuff before I do that again. Enough with the $#%@# payment plans.

When I started with my company nearly 20 years ago, we had a decent pension plan as well as a good 401K. Now there is no pension and the 401k is pitiful. I paid nothing for insurance except $5 copays; now it's $8k premiums, $3k deductibles, and $5k hospital bills. The company is bigger and stronger than ever, and the stock price is great. I'm starting to see the left's perspective a little when it comes to this stuff. Where's the money going? Why can't a guy raising a family ever get ahead?

[elmacgyver0]

Trying not to make this political but, government regulations and the high cost of malpractice insurance for all those involved in healthcare accounts for a lot of the cost of healthcare.

Amen!

[DocSavage]

Had a friend who went to college to be come an anesthesiologist ended up going to a different line of work as the malpractice premiums were astronomical.

[respiegel]

Well, just called both the insurance and the hospital. Unbelievable. No help at all, they didn't want to even talk to us about it. "Just wait until you get the final bill and we can set up a payment plan."

After insurance it's still over $5k, for a minimally invasive outpatient procedure. Absolutely unreal. I'm not doing another payment plan. I just won't. I'll sell off my stuff before I do that again. Enough with the $#%@# payment plans.

When I started with my company nearly 20 years ago, we had a decent pension plan as well as a good 401K. Now there is no pension and the 401k is pitiful. I paid nothing for insurance except $5 copays; now it's $8k premiums, $3k deductibles, and $5k hospital bills. The company is bigger and stronger than ever, and the stock price is great. I'm starting to see the left's perspective a little when it comes to this stuff. Where's the money going? Why can't a guy raising a family ever get ahead?

It is sad when you have to check out the insurance before making employment decisions.

One thing to remember in the future, unless it is an ER visit there is always a standard price and a cash price, you can negotiate for the cash price before but not after. My friend needed a procedure that wasn't covered by her insurance, so she called around until she found a doctor that would do it for cash, paid $1,700 rather than $40k+

You can always contact the medical review commission and start claiming malpractice or poor case management, problems tend to disappear when lawsuits show up on the horizon, at least at the wife's hospital.

[castalott]

I know you hate payment plans but consider... tell them all you can afford is $50 a month and you will set it up to come out automatically... I have heard that in "some" states if you are paying something you can't be sued... after a few years they might be willing to settle more reasonably......just a thought .... Your mileage may vary... Good Luck!

[Thundarstick]

I'm in health care myself and tell people, "how would you like to go to the grocery with 5 other shoppers. Everyone has the exact same items at checkout time. The first two pay nothing, the second pays $100, and the last two pay $900 and $1500?" That kind of billing is not tolerated in any other sector of society, so why do we tolerate it in medicine?

Not quite the same, but the wife had a procedure about 15 years ago that we had $15,000 saved for deductibles and unexpected items before the surgery. Long story short, a 30 minute procedure turned into a 9 hour procedure with complications. We where left holding a $75,000 bill AFTER the insurance maxed out. We where paying monthly payments up until the hospital had us served papers! The next morning we where in a chapter 13 lawyers office, filed bankruptcy, and they got NOTHING because they wouldn't work with us at all!

The only real difference between systems is, you pay these astronomical charges on service here, or astronomical taxes along the way in the other. O, and the most money tends to be spent on the front end of ones life there, vs in the last of ones life here.

[lightload]

When I had back surgery, I told the doctor and the hospital administrator that if my bill was padded with fake items or fake services, then I would protest these charges. This occurred anyway. I protested fake charges and got nowhere until I involved the insurance companies. Doing so removed $1500 from the bill. One physician charge violated his contract terms with the insurance company. One bill came from an outside source that deleted its charge when I said that I suspected fraud and would allege such. Even though I conducted this business in a professional manner, it angered many.

[Geezer in NH]

The AMA cannot handle their own Malpractice insurance crisis but have time to want to speak against gun rights.

Makes you wonder eh?

[fatelk]

One of my problems with payment plans is I absolutely hate owing money. If I can get something payed off and done with I much prefer to do that. I called them and after talking to a couple different people they went from a 15% discount for full payment, to 20%, and finally 25%. I'm thinking we'll just do that and be done with it.

I don't think I'll set foot in that hospital again unless it's life or death. It has a reputation for being one of the most expensive in the state, as a for-profit hospital. In the future for something like this we'll shop around a bit first. Maybe they're all the same, I don't know. To me it feels similar to selling or buying a house. Everyone has their hand out during the process, wanting a big piece of the pie. A guy works and scrimps to save a dime, and everyone wants a big piece of it. What I learn from this is that you can't get ahead working for an hourly wage. I really need to encourage my kids to go to school, get a degree and a decent profession. Gee, I sure wish I was able to save a little money to help them with college tuition...

[osteodoc08]

One of my problems with payment plans is I absolutely hate owing money. If I can get something payed off and done with I much prefer to do that. I called them and after talking to a couple different people they went from a 15% discount for full payment, to 20%, and finally 25%. I'm thinking we'll just do that and be done with it.

I don't think I'll set foot in that hospital again unless it's life or death. It has a reputation for being one of the most expensive in the state, as a for-profit hospital. In the future for something like this we'll shop around a bit first. Maybe they're all the same, I don't know. To me it feels similar to selling or buying a house. Everyone has their hand out during the process, wanting a big piece of the pie. A guy works and scrimps to save a dime, and everyone wants a big piece of it. What I learn from this is that you can't get ahead working for an hourly wage. I really need to encourage my kids to go to school, get a degree and a decent profession. Gee, I sure wish I was able to save a little money to help them with college tuition...

25% saved is 25% earned my friend. I'm sorry you had this experience with the dark side of medical care. I hate it myself, but am glad you stuck to your guns and were able to get some % off. Truth be told, they are probably still making plenty off of it and I truly despise that part of medicine. I also am not a fan of insurance at all. No one to actually look out for the patient.

[JimB..]

What I learn from this is that you can't get ahead working for an hourly wage. I really need to encourage my kids to go to school, get a degree and a decent profession.

Sounds like money well spent!

[William Yanda]

One suggestion I have heard is to make settlements/pricing agreements public. Sunlight disinfects, right? Without secrecy, the incentive to maximize profit is lessened, driving prices down. I know it is not the whole answer, but it might be a start.

[Handloader109]

You guys make sure you review your company insurance policies closely each year IF you have options. I'm surprised that you have that large a bill. Large deductibles usually will cover 100% after a decently large out of pocket. Those are the two major things to look at. Deductable and where you hit the insurance company hitting 100% payment.

You may pay a bit more when you go to the dr for the base visit, but you HAVE to look at worst case. That 100k surgery. Will you owe $50k? Or $5k. A lot of difference.

Oh, the hospitals do way more cya routines than you would expect, each raises your bill and a lot do nothing for your health. Daughter does ultrasound. Had girl come in the other night hurting. She had a surgery 2 weeks earlier, so first thought of dr was infected with surgery. So ultrasound... nope simple urinary tract infection. So $600 test vs $5 test with a couple of intelligent questions. Guess who pays for their incompetence. And they have had a lot of this type of problem. Several missed or delayed problems resulting in $30000 helicopter flights to main hospital. Now that is a kicker.

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[Idaho45guy]

I remember my grandpa telling me about him having to go to the doctor in the 1930's to have his appendix removed and he paid in cash. $30. This was in 1938 or `39.

That's the equivalent of $510 today.

An appendix surgery today costs around $10,000.

[fatelk]

Our plan pays 80% after $3k out of pocket (deductible), and 100% after $14k out of pocket. When the company first switched to this type of plan a few years back, the premiums were very affordable. Actually I think it worked out to where our cost in premiums was almost nothing.

Now with another change, they're something like $8k per year, but only for some employees. If you were with one part of the company, you get the old (far better) benefits. If your income is above a certain point, you pay double. If it's above another point, you pay quadruple. It's a convoluted mess.