strange time at range

[RED BEAR]

was at range other day and asked a couple of other shooters what they were shooting as didn't want to pick up there brass. was told i was welcome to it with a little chuckle. as i examined brass say all was split from extractor grove to mouth primers were flattened and appeared to have flowed into fireing pin hole. asked weren't they worried shooting 9 mm that hot and was told they were there own defensive rounds. seemed to have a little attitude about my question so let it go just moved further down line. this is not the first time i have seen this and founf a lot of split 9 mm so i wount pick it up any more. it is just to cheap to take a chance. if a standard 9 is not enough why not just buy a bigger gun there are plenty to chose from. 9mm are the only ones i have run up on like this. i must be missing something just can't understand loading ammo that hot.

[robg]

Maybe they've got a death wish. Same people who use max revs all the time in a car.

[Tatume]

Some people are just best left alone.

[country gent]

I have seen these cases also on the range also. I have also seen cases fired with actual pressure test loads. These loads while at testing pressures the cases are bulged and deformed they haven't normally split. These loads splitting cases are way over pressure and a risk to scoring the chamber and or pit the bolt face and releasing high pressure gasses and fine particles back into the firearm. Even the illinos 9mm +p+ loadings while hard on guns didn't split cases. I have seen 9mm and 40 s&w loaded like this. One shooter was telling me he loaded 40 S&W to mid upper 10mm velocities routinely. The other Ive seen is 223 / 5.56 loaded way over pressure.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Nothing new, these are the same type folks that will throw a nitrous system or a turbo on a stock motor then blame the equipment when it fails or take a motorcycle up and down a mountain road at max speed.

Hopefully the "learning moment" will come and no one is injured or killed. Darwin's Theory unfortunately has a way of fixing the issue.

Hot loads is one of the reason why most of our publicly accessible ranges either make the shooter use only factory loaded or the ranges reloads (often cheaply loaded and dirty but well within spec)

[D Crockett]

when I am at the range I try to stay away from those kinds of people they in my opinion are dangerous to be around D Crockett

[Tom W.]

When I collect brass, it's at the indoor range. Most of the stuff is new, purchased at the shop, and then only fired and left on the floor.
When I get home I'll inspect, resize and deprime, then put in the tumbler for a few hours and put with the rest of my empty brass. When I get some out to reload, I'll inspect it some more. Every time it gets handled it gets another inspection...

Know-it-all people i stay away from.....

[RED BEAR]

i pretty much do the same but at my range a large amount isreloads as the range is outside. i get 9 mm so cheap it just isnt worth it to me. i do collect my own brass but leave the rest alone

[fatelk]

Makes a guy wonder a little sometimes about buying a used gun.

[skeettx]

I still pick it up and put it in the scrap brass bucket, pays for my annual dues :)

[Handloader109]

Makes a guy wonder a little sometimes about buying a used gun.

You got that right.....
I'd not buy any handgun that is still in production as a used gun. Yeah, you might save $50, but if it's been treated badly, that little sum is no gain.

[RPRNY]

Scary stuff!

I emptied the range bucket the other week with what looked like about 75 cases of new, once fired 308. When I started to de-prime about the 4th round I picked up looked an felt wrong. Turns out I had about 20 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor in there ;-) Gave it to a friend who shoots it.

The rest was a mix of predominantly Federal 308 and about 12 seemingly brand new shiny Hornady 308. The Federal brass deprimed and resized no problem. The Hornady brass would not resize. Case head expansion was excessive and I thought I might rip my press off the bench trying! Threw those all out.

[Walks]

Picking up anything but your own brass at my indoor range could get you banned for life.If the person who shot it doesn't pick it up, it belongs to the range.

[JSnover]

I shoot at two public ranges, both have strict rules and ROs. That's pretty much the way it has to be these days when I'm shooting alongside 'anyone and everyone.'

[skeettx]

He he he
I LOVE TEXAS
When we get finished shooting at the indoor club,
we call a cease fire if all are finished, and sweep the range.
We clean up and take any brass in the brass bucket.
We try to leave the range cleaner than we found it.
All club member have a key and can shoot between 6AM and 10PM
We average around 600 members.
http://www.texaspanhandlepistolclub.com/

[fatelk]

A friend was telling me one time about a range he used to shoot at. You could only shoot ammo purchased at the range, and absolutely no picking up brass. I'm sure glad I can shoot at an outdoor range without goofy, ridiculous rules like that.

I'd get rid of my guns and take up golf before I'd shoot at a range that's cheapskate enough to prohibit you from picking up empty brass under your feet. I know; their business, their rules, bet personally I just think it's cheesy (only because I can't use a fitting term that begins with the word chicken-). :)

[lightman]

A friend and shooting buddy is what I call a speed freak. I have suggested to him that maybe he should back off on his loads a little. He finally had an accident. He blew the firing pin and cocking piece out of the back of a bolt and got a nasty cut on his nose. He was wearing glasses and was not seriously injured otherwise. I used to find his brass at the range and it was pretty scary looking. I think he is much more cautious now days!

[Kraschenbirn]

I'd get rid of my guns and take up golf before I'd shoot at a range that's cheapskate enough to prohibit you from picking up empty brass under your feet. I know; their business, their rules, bet personally I just think it's cheesy (only because I can't use a fitting term that begins with the word chicken-). :)

There's an indoor range like that 'bout 3/4 mile up the road from where I'm sittin'...no reloads (except theirs), any brass on the floor is theirs, no 'draw from holster' practice allowed, and no 'rapid fire' practice. When they first opened, I walked in the door, read the posted rules, asked the guy behind the counter "Are those serious?", and walked out. Our club outdoor range is about 1/2 hour away: open 9A-dusk, 365 days a year; other than full auto, shoot what you brung; and be prepared for criticism if you DON'T clean up your brass (either to take home or dump in the brass bucket).

Bill

[Tom W.]

I asked about collecting brass at the indoor range. The Guy behind the counter said " You bought it, it's yours!"
Other people's brass I ask if they are going to take it home. So far only one person wanted his....

[Blackwater]

To the original quetion, I'd have to answer that it just seems to be a mindset of those who like to "cheat" or have something "better" than everyone else with the same thing. It's just a cheater's mentality, and I have no clue how to deal with it. Wish I did, but I don't. It's also at least a bit narcisisstic, as well, putting one's own self at least in their own minds, a "cut above" the "madding crowd." But some of these folks with this type of mentality always wind up paying the extreme price for their haughty mindset. It's just the price of foolishness, and it's always been that way.

[GhostHawk]

Last time I was at my pistol range the RSO comes by shoving brass. He waits till I see him, asks if I save my brass. I said yes, just shove mine up against the wall I'll pick it up.

By the time I was done he had left me at least an extra 50 rounds of both 9mm, and .45acp.

He got a very nice thank you from me on the way out the door.

I support my range, I have bought a lot of rifle brass in various calibers. 25 lb boxes of 9mm, .40sw, and .45acp. I don't always pick up my brass. I figure it comes out close to even in the long run.

I have to admit I like having a whole 25 lb box of 9mm if I want to crank out 2-300 rounds.
Range is basicly selling it for the scrap brass price. Little more for rifle brass, but still reasonable.

If they ever need anything, I'll be there. I don't forget who my friends are.

[marek313]

As a reloader I stay away from ranges that dont allow reloads. I have one outside range about 45mins away thats designed for shooters like me. I can even understand not allowing reloads due to liability issues or whatever.

What I dont understand are these ranges that dont allow you to pick up your own brass????? Are you serious ????? I just paid for that ammo it is MY PROPERTY !!!! What the hell ??? Am I missing something here??? They make double profit that way since they sell it at least for scrap. I would never support any range like that. Thats crazy and I cant believe those places are in business.

[Idaho45guy]

I'm extremely thankful that I do not have to pay to shoot with the public. Going to Walmart is bad enough. Besides, the nearest range is 50 miles away.

[Smoke4320]

my range owner and range officer can be a real pain in the backside. With the range just out my back door its convenient though..
When they become a pain I just buy myself a beer and tell me, myself and I to shut up and sit down.. Then we get along ok for a while

[merlin101]

my range owner and range officer can be a real pain in the backside. With the range just out my back door its convenient though..
When they become a pain I just buy myself a beer and tell me, myself and I to shut up and sit down.. Then we get along ok for a while

You need to let him know who's boss!
Some guys just have to keep going faster n faster and want that bigger bang then everyone else. The range I belong to has some pretty simple rules, fire as fast as you want as long as each round impacts the berm, no shooting across lanes, and the don't want any holster drawing. Oh well, no body's perfect.

[Don Purcell]

Potential Darwin Award winners. They are also very likely doing this in other aspect of their lives and will be candidates for the award. "The envelope please...".

[nicholst55]

I was at a rifle range once when an older gentleman (older than me - at the time, probably about 50) showed up with an AK-47 in .223. He started shooting, way faster than I would have been, and was obviously not interested in his brass. I asked if he was going to save it, and he replied that I was welcome to it. I picked up a handful, and immediately noticed that many cases had no primer in them! The ones that did, the primers showed obvious signs of extreme high pressure, and some were pierced! I warned him of this, and asked where he got his ammo. He replied that he was aware of it, and 'the guy' he got his ammo from said they were supposed to be that way. I tried to explain the dangers associated with this, but he didn't seem interested. Oh well, I tried. I didn't take any extra .223 brass home that day, needless to say.

[Tom W.]

I was made aware of the Russell County Sheriff's Office training range by a member on this forum. It's open to the public once a month for a few hours. I've been there twice so far. The first time I too my wife and two 9mm pistols, and by time I finished shooting I hurt too badly to bend down and pick up my brass. It gets collected and gets traded for SO training rounds, so I didn't feel like I was being a lazy bum by not policing my brass, plus the RO said that it was ok. The second time I took a revolver and a single shot rifle, so it was easier to round up my brass. If I can get hold of my son I'll get my 30/30 for the next time it's open.....

[am44mag]

Sounds like he wanted to turn his 9mm into a 357 Sig. That's the kind of guy that makes me happy I live in the country and can shoot alone. I'd rather not get shrapnel from some idiot's reloading experiment gone wrong.

[GoodOlBoy]

I used to shoot on a private range with a guy who would take all of his 44 special brass and "supe them up" after the fourth reload then leave them where they lay. I would find them and smash them before putting them in a scrap brass bucket. I always just shook me head, but he was one of those guys you just couldn't tell nothing. Me and a buddy were the "unofficial" range cleaners for that place when it was still in business. We hit it before every CCW and Safety class, and again right after. The owner was glad to have us. We would sit around my place on rainy, or lazy days off and cull the brass with anything even remotely suspect going to the scrap yard. We must have bartered a metric ton of good brass to an old mom and pop cartridge company a couple hours away down in Conroe, Texas; and gave them twice as much (they wouldn't buy 9mm or 40S&W because they had it coming out of their ears, but we would just give it to them anyway.) For quite a few years there we had a real good thing going. Particularly since we would get more for "trade value" for the brass than we did just cashing out. We both shot the dickens out of 45 long colt, 45 acp, 357 mag, and 38 special back in those days so we were glad to do it. The range owner passed away on us, and his kids were more interested in selling off the timber, bulldozing the range, and selling the land than in keeping that operation going. It was crazy, I know what the guy was making in "private" range fees, they basically sold the golden goose for a pouch of pennies. Just when he was starting to work with a welder to put in some long range pans too. Dang. Not too many years later the Pop of the mom and pop cartridge company passed away on us too. We weren't fooled, we were all getting a great deal out of the arrangements. I miss those old farts.

A few years later I found another range and we were going to start hitting them up every weekend to shoot like we use to do at the private range, but they turned out to be another one of those "only buy your ammo here, don't pick up even your own brass" outfits. They didn't last until the water got hot, and I never dropped a hammer on a primer at their place once we found out their "rules".

It's hard to find a good range that is even remotely affordable or doesn't have some hair-brained set of rules around here these days. Oh and I mean hair-brained. Only our ammo, don't pick up your brass, no "patriotic" displays allowed (yeah that one didn't last either), or other malarkey that had nothing to do with safety.

God Bless, and One Love.

GoodOlBoy

[Silver Eagle]

First thing I ask when visiting a new range is about brass and bringing in my own ammo. If I can keep my own (safely.) I shoot. If not, I walk out after explaining the reason why I will not shoot there.
As for those that flirt with the load books and the laws of physics. I avoid them. Have seen a few. One person said he bought a new pistol every couple years or so after his "wore out." Was kinda amazed when I told him mine was 20+ years old. Though, he still loaded his own hot. BTW They also shot poorly. But, they were "My special rounds," in his words.

Silver Eagle

[am44mag]

First thing I ask when visiting a new range is about brass and bringing in my own ammo. If I can keep my own (safely.) I shoot. If not, I walk out after explaining the reason why I will not shoot there.
As for those that flirt with the load books and the laws of physics. I avoid them. Have seen a few. One person said he bought a new pistol every couple years or so after his "wore out." Was kinda amazed when I told him mine was 20+ years old. Though, he still loaded his own hot. BTW They also shot poorly. But, they were "My special rounds," in his words.

Silver Eagle

My oldest gun is 130 years old, with several others being just a bit over 100. They still shoot as good as the day they were made. I wonder what he'd think of that, lol. :D