Lee 277 135 RF

[sigep1764]

Does anyone know what Lyman top punch works with this boolit? The cross reference charts on Lee molds does not list this boolit.

[sigep1764]

Cast a bunch of these today. Lots of rejects even after scrubbing the mold twice. Im sure any and all oil will burn out. I started running it quicker and a little hotter towards the end and things got better. Ive found the double cavity molds lose heat quickly. It was throwing acceptable boolits by the end, but I only kept about a hundred after inspection. Nose came out .269 and the driving bands came out .279. Got a .278 H&I die that I can open up if I need .279. This is my first rifle mold and the first goal is The Load of somewhere between 10 and 13 grains of Red Dot. Once I figure that out, move to a slower powder and work up and so on and so forth til I get to 2200fps. In all reality I just want a fun accurate soft plinker that might be used for a little hunting.

[sigep1764]

Forgot to mention the gun, a Winchester Model 70 in 270 Winchester, my first rifle. Its a 2002 vintage with a polymer stock and the scope it came with. Only shot about 200 rounds through it. Been using a CZ455 and Savage B22FVSR to practice.

[Rcmaveric]

I use the RCBS 529. Puts a small ring on the nose which i fixed with the hot glue trick. Just fill the nose punch with hot glue and wait for it to cool. Then install the sizer die and nose punch. Put in a bullet and get it started enough to be all centered up. Now hit the hot glue with a lighter till its molten. Put some spit on the bullet so it doesn't stick to the glue. Then seat the nose punch on the bullet nose and wait for it to cool. Once cool you can trim the glue to make it pretty and now you have a nice gasket that wont damage your noses. I just happen to have a stick for fixing my fishing pole eye-lets. I couldn't find an exact cross reference for it and searching around led me to picking that one. I want to say it was an article on another random web site from google searching. Good bullet in 270 Winchester. I have shot several thousands of them.

[Rcmaveric]

I clean a new mold with dish soap. Then rinse liberal with brake parts cleaner. Then run it hot to burn off what ever is left. It takes a few hundred for a mold to "season" and easily drop good bullets. May need smoke it once or twice. Scraping the edges of the cavity with an exacto knife can help it drop bullets also. Also store the mold with desiccant so you never have to clean it again and it stays rust free.

Casting with two molds helps keep temps more stable and let you cast faster. You can always dip the corner of the mold in lead for 20-30 ish seconds to preheat hit. Working with a preheated mold can let you cast good bullets from the get go.

Red Dot produces a decent moa ish load that is pretty light. 2400 was better and par with Reloader 7 in accurracy. Reloader 7 i push at 2050 FPS with sub MOA accuracy and easily performs out to 200 yards. 270 winchers is my baby and what started it all leading me down this rabbit hole. Its a Savage Axis II with a synthetic stock and Weaver ballistic scope.

[sigep1764]

Thank you sir! I looked up the 529, its for a very similar boolit, the RCBS 270 150. It is now on its way from Midway. Shipping is always quick with them, but they are only 3 hours away! 2400 and Reloader 7 are not in my inventory of powders, but the next time I am at Cabelas I will pick some up. Waiting on gas checks and a die set for right now. Haven't decided but the Lyman 3 die set plus an M die are looking nice.

[sigep1764]

I clean a new mold with dish soap. Then rinse liberal with brake parts cleaner. Then run it hot to burn off what ever is left. It takes a few hundred for a mold to "season" and easily drop good bullets. May need smoke it once or twice. Scraping the edges of the cavity with an exacto knife can help it drop bullets also. Also store the mold with desiccant so you never have to clean it again and it stays rust free.

Casting with two molds helps keep temps more stable and let you cast faster. You can always dip the corner of the mold in lead for 20-30 ish seconds to preheat hit. Working with a preheated mold can let you cast good bullets from the get go.

Red Dot produces a decent moa ish load that is pretty light. 2400 was better and par with Reloader 7 in accurracy. Reloader 7 i push at 2050 FPS with sub MOA accuracy and easily performs out to 200 yards. 270 winchers is my baby and what started it all leading me down this rabbit hole. Its a Savage Axis II with a synthetic stock and Weaver ballistic scope.

Do you seat to the top driving band or do you seat the boolit out?

[Rcmaveric]

I measured my seating depth of my chamber from the bolt face to the leade. Then subtract. 002 off that. Depending on case neck length, the first lube groove may or may not be covered. I convert brass to .270 win. by necking parrent case brass up or down then neck turning the cases. 270 case necks tend to be long enough and others tend to be a a thousand or so shorter. Doesnt affect accurracy.

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[Rcmaveric]

I use Lee Dies and the Lee unirversal expander with the NOE insert.

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[Rcmaveric]

One is Red Dot and the other isn 2400 at 100 yards. The big orange target is reloader 7 at 100 yards.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180504/36bcc8eead36074260bfec2b14767ac0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180504/baf86a9e0e1c53502325a4148ed256b3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180504/27ad006819b23ed6728f1db4a50645b0.jpg

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[sigep1764]

Exactly what I was looking for! Thank you. I made one dummy and it chambered seated at the first land with all lube grooves in the neck. I want to try this first then if the chamber will allow to seat longer.

[Rcmaveric]

Seating into the lands always plays havoc with pressure spikes for me. You want to get some velocity before the lead is over pressured. So give that bullet just a smidge of jump. I couldnt find an accurate load to save me life till i backed it out of the lands. I settled with .002 and was happy with rhe results. I am a hunter and paper puncher, not a bench rest shooter.

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[sigep1764]

Ive shot about 200 rounds of Lee 277 135 lubed with supermoly and checked seated at 3.11 with 2 lube grooves above the neck. 10 grains of red dot. Hovers around .5 to 1 inch at 25 yards. This is with a scope that cannot focus the cross hairs at 25 yards and fixed parallax at 100 yds.

Next try is the Lyman 468473. Seated at 3.077, middle and bottom lube grooves in the neck with orange magic, top lube groove unlubed(cannot get the boolit deep enough into the Lyman 4500). Ladder test shows 12.5 grains red dot going three shots into one hole with two pulled. Will load more of this for more testing next week as well as swapping on a Mueller 8-32x40 scope from my CZ455.
This is all at 25 yards, the closest 100 yard range is 30 min away and closed for renovations this summer. The next closest is an hour. After this load is sorted, Ill make the trip. Ill take both loads and see what happens. No chronograph, all loads from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd edition.

[Rcmaveric]

I would measure my chamber.

Close the bolt. Insert a wooden dowel and mark the dowel at the muzzle. Remove the bolt and insert a bullet and gently hold it into the lands with a pencil. Reinsert the dowel down the barrel from the muzzle. This is the part where growing a third hand helps, but you mark the dowel resting on the bullets nose. Becarefull because you don't want the bullet forced into the lands, you just want it resting. If your curious you kind of push the dowel and pencil and play with the feel to make sure its a gently seat. Then mark the dowel. Now remove the pencil, bullet and dowel.

The marks on the dowel rod are your max seating depth that put a bullet into the lands. Now measure that distance and subtract about .002 inches off that. That will be your starting COL. Load up a dumby round and check its feading and chambering. You can even load up a few dumbies to check the cycling. Make sure the feeding is reliably and the chambering is easy. You shouldn't have to force a bolt closed. If you have to force a bolt closed check your bullet for engraving and if there is engraving then seat about another .001 to .002 inches and try again. Repeat if neccassary. If you bolt is hard to close and you don't see engraving then check your case neck diameter and compare to a pound a cast of your chamber. You may need to resize better or case neck turn. Or check for sholder set back. Another method to see what the problem is to smoke the dumby round or cover it marker. What ever is rubbing and casusing you bolt closure problems will rub off the carbon or marker. Let you know if its the case neck or shoulder.

My opinion and only my opinion: Seating into the lands causes a major pressure spike and i prefer a slight jump down the throat and into the lands. Gives the bullet a more gentler launch and lets me shoot at higher velocities.

Changing COL will affect your chamber pressures. Its better in my opinion to measure what my guns max seating depth is, then stick with that. That way i have a constant to which i can adjust from. Varrying your seating depth if extreme enough can be like varying charge by .1 to .3g. Its better to only fiddle with one aspect of a load at a time and keep the rest at a constant. That way if it doesn't work you know exactly what caused it. If it does work you know exactly how to recreate it.

50yards is a little better than 25. Atleast you checked to see if they were leading. .25 inches at 25 yards is MOA i think. .5 inches at 50 yeards, 1 inch at 100 and so and so forth. Not all groups are good a certain distances. So keep that in mind. I hunt so all my loads get tested at 50 to 200 yards. Because those are the distance i will be shooting game animals.

[sigep1764]

Maveric, good advice. I seated each type of boolit long to see where the engraving started on the boolit. I backed it off the length of the engraving on the boolit plus a couple thousandths. I am not seating "into the lands". The boolits are sized to .2785-.279. I haven't even scrubbed the barrel. Just wet patches, red dot is a little dirty, and then 3 or 4 tight dry patches. This is after 300 rounds and accuracy has not dropped off. I am super happy not scrubbing the bore. I am thoroughly convinced groups at 25 yards will be half in size by switching scopes. There is literally two sets of crosshairs no matter where the focus or magnification is set on this scope. The rifle was purchased as a package with this scope 16 years ago. At 100 yards its serviceable to an extent, but is a limiting factor. Im inclined to test the Lyman boolit more as it is miles above the Lee in easiness to cast. It is simply a wonderful mold. I am not stuck on Red Dot, I just buy it by the 8lb jug and always have three of them on hand as it is my go to for 9mm. I want to try some slower powder, either 2400 or 748 when I get the chance. However, red dot is showing a lot of promise in this rifle

[Rcmaveric]

Your on the right path. Whats your throat diameter?

My rifle has a .280 throat. Sizing to that gives me the best accuracy.

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[sigep1764]

My Lyman .278 h&I die was only 2765. I got it opened up to 279, but stopped as there is a little bit of lube getting by the pushrod. The slug measured .277 so I tried 279. I can open up the die a little more but not before I get a heater! That hard lube can sure make a mess overpressured but works nicely with heat. The heater is currently bolted to the star sizer and my bench. I don't have room for the lyman on the bench so it gets c clamped to the kitchen table when I need it. The little woman loves that...

[Rcmaveric]

Use what ever works when it comes to sizing. I sized to .278 for the longest time then tried the .280 that fills my throat and was surprised. It was a whim aftee reading a few sifferent articles.

I like softer lubes. Bens Red worked good. Simple lube worked great until it got hot here. I could tweak the simple lube if needed but i was just testing various baslines. I am switching over and testing the SL-68B in all my guns. If the results are good i will try the SL-71. I dont want to have to fight a hard lube in my sizers and hard lubes can cause leading. Temp swings and long shot strings here in Florida can really test a lube.

With Red Dot loads two coats of 45/45/10 is working pretty good. With red dot your peak pressure quickly and falls off quickly so your not gonna get a lot of velecity. So its not gonna run your lube to the extreme.

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[sigep1764]

The range guys were looking pretty hard at me the first time I uncased the rifle. Like "Why in the world would he shoot that at an indoor 25 yard range?" I told them what I was doing and they said, well, I guess it could be done, and walked away except the muzzleloader guy. He's a little younger than me and brought his ML into the range for me to shoot the trip before. Id never shot a flintlock muzzleloader anything before and it was a hoot! I flipped the safety on and said here , try it. He couldn't stop smiling after he pulled the trigger! We went through 60 rounds in an hour.

When you fire it, it feels like its just barely pushing out the barrel. Its so much fun and easier on the shoulder. I can shoot 20 rounds before the barrel warms up enough to not touch it, but it never gets searing. Cast loads have made this rifle something fun to shoot and cheaper to get some trigger time behind it. This is mostly what I've wanted, accuracy afterwards. Looking like we're gonna get it all.

[Rcmaveric]

Different powders will heat the barrel more. 2400 loads arent that bad if you pace it right. Reloader 7 and 4198 can hear barrel quickly.

Yeah shooting red dot loads are like shooting a 22LR. Supposedly good small game loads aswell. I havent tested that theory because havent chronoed the load. As long as its around 1200 fps it wont blow a rabbit up. Just knock a whole in it.

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[sigep1764]

The load with the 468473 with 12.5 grains of red dot is looking somewhere between 1650 and 1700 fps according the the load data in the 3rd Edition. I might want to hunt medium critters with it, raccoon coyote etc, maybe deer. Once I start shooting cast in a gun, I almost never return to j words. Its too much fun, occupies too much of my time, and keeps me out of trouble pouring my own. My boss says to my girlfriend, "You cant know where or what Kyle(me)is up to all the time". She says, "Pretty sure he's being antisocial doing his gun thing or on the motycycle 99.9% of the time he's not at work. I don't worry about him much." Like I said before, she's a keeper.

[Rcmaveric]

1650 fps plus or minus 100 fps sounds about right. Should be enough for a deer. For me it was bullet drop out to 200 yards. At 1650 fps it was too much for me to try and hold over. I am good shot, but i am horrible with hold over. I use a ballistic scope to take a touch of the guess work out of it. My goal was to hit 1800 fps but when i was playing with powders Reloader 7 let me hit 2050. So now, if the deer is at 200 yards, just put it heart between the second and third tick mark on my ballistic reticle and its meat on the table. Reloader 7 and Red dot and 2400 are my go to powders now. I hear good things about H4895 and 5744. I picked up 2 pounds of each to play with but i am still playing with loads in my other guns. I told my self i wont play with anymore powders in the .270 Win until i tune loads in all my guns. i have a laundry list of things to do, stupid work gets in the way. I almost cant wait to retire then i can devote myself to my labor of love. I kind of want a heavier bullet than Lee to play with. Maybe something in 150g but the .278 bullet diameter has a small selection. I toyed with idea of looking .280 bullets to fill the throat but the nose profile would have to be spot on to chamber.

My wife gets worried when i start tinkering. I have only detonated a few primers by accident and set the house on fire twice (casting accident and lube cooking). She only worries about messing up my pretty face. Her words not mine. Told her when i retire its her turn to get a job and i will be a stay at home redneck. I will hunt, fish, cook and clean and garden. She just needs to keep the lights on. lmao what she told me wasn't PG13.

[sigep1764]

RC, isn't the RCBS mold 150? Thats the only one above 135 that I've seen without stepping to a 7mm design. It seems theres more molds available for 280Rem/7mm Rem Mag than for 270 and I'd argue the 270 is more popular.

[Rcmaveric]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=28_188&products_id=1014&osCsid=lv225upa71ahito8q6os5ll6o4

This ones 165g, but that point wont be good for hunting. Would be great for bullseye shooting.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=28_187&products_id=983&osCsid=lv225upa71ahito8q6os5ll6o4

A little light. Better nose for hunting. It has almost a 50% meplate.

http://rcbs.com/Products/Bullet-Casting/Bullet-Moulds/Rifle/Bullet-Mould-270-150-SP-529.aspx

Similar in design to my two 6.5mm bullets. I would love to give them a try. I want to see if those can be pushed to around 2050 fps with some 10BHN lead. If they do good i would hunt with it. For all i know the Lee 135g will be just as affective, but that 150g should be capable of dropping an elk with that kind of cross sectional density and same for the NOE 165g.

Accurate molds has a couple as well:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=28-120B-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=28-152M-D.png Maybe this one with some design tweeks. Add a gas check. Change the bad diameters to fit better.

The metric conversion of the .277 is a 6.8mm. So its close to 7mm. Some of those 7mm desings look to work with some minor design tweeks. Other cartridges in 6.8mm are becoming talked about so i hope we get some more offerings and experimentations to expand the offerings. I am reserved buyer until i see results especially when it involves 100 bucks that i have to save up to spend. From the few i posted there are some i want to play with. Accurate molds gets a lot of great reviews. But i am leaning more towards NOE. I have dealings with them and their molds are awesome. How ever those Accurate molds nose profiles are more conducive to hunting so am i torn now.

[sigep1764]

I like the look of the first one, a Loverin copy. I also like the last two, but there is no provision for a gas check. Im not a powder coater and do not have enough room right now to get into it. I do want to try it at some point tho. I looked at the second one, the 126 grain gas check mold. At the time having never casted to loaded for rifle before, I wanted more lube grooves. But it looks like a bunny to coyote thumper. Don't know how fast it can be pushed.

[Rcmaveric]

My only complaint with the Lee 135g is the small meplate. I am mostly a deer hunter. When i finnaly use it on a deer my opinion may change. A heavier bullet would be nice incase i decide to go for CPRX3 (or whater game category elk and moose are) rated critters and to play with. Lighter ones have crossed my mind due to hoping to get .277 Wolverine one day.

Accurate molds may be willing to customize those molds. My experience with NOE was group runs. I had to wait quite a few months to get my 6.5mm mold. I would do it again if they offerered what i wanted.

[sigep1764]

There are a lot more choices out there than I originally thought. I couldn't imagine starting out in 30 caliber. I'd drive myself nuts trying to pick molds.

[Rcmaveric]

You think there are a lot of 30 cal molds check out the .358 size molds. When i got my .357 Mag my head exploded at that options. I felt so over whelmed and ignorant that i just "When in doubt, Charlie out"ed it and went with a Lee mold. No regrets on that choice.

[sigep1764]

True, for sure. 380, 9mm, 38 special, 357 Mag, plus rifle calibers. Necksized, trimmed, chamfered, demurred, and expanded case mouths on 50 270 cases tonight. Tomorrow after work, tumble them and load them. Mounted the new scope on the M70 too. Just a cheap Barska 4-16x40 with adjustable objective.

[Rcmaveric]

Wait till after Hunting season and stay on the lookout for sales. Like the day after deer season, everything goes on sale. Midway included. I am a fan of Nikon Prostaffs with the Ballistic Reticles. Can get them on sale for about 150 ish or so. Best bang for a the buck. I have three of them.

[sigep1764]

Well, after getting the new scope sighted in, the barrel was pretty warm, not searing, but definitely warm. Best I could do with 12.5 grains of red dot was about 3/4 inch at 25yds. I loaded them at 3.069 oal and a few of them had hard bolt closure. I opened the unfired bolt and examined the exposed boolits. It seems the exposed sides of the boolits under the ogive were in contact with the throat. I am going to seat deeper tmro when reloading these cases and try to get to the range. The scope view was much improved and clear. It was almost 90 degrees inside the range today as well.

[Rcmaveric]

If the bolt was hard to close you may have seated into the lands. Its going to cause a pressure spike and realy affect groups. 3/4 inch at 25 yards would translate to a possible 2.5 inch 100 yard group. Back it off till you can close the bolt easily and try the 12.5g again.

[sigep1764]

222329222330222331

My rifle has spoken. All groups were fired at 25 yards consecutively. The large group was one of four 10 shot groups that were all about 2-2.5 inch groups, a total of 40 rounds, Lyman 468473 sized .279, lubed with SuperMoly, gas checked, 12.5 grains of Red Dot, and seated to an overall length of 3.027. All groups consist of 10 shots fired about as quick as I could single load and get a steady view through the scope.

The two nickel sized groups were fired in the same manner, 10 shots apiece, a total of 20 rounds, fired as fast as I could single load them and get a steady view through the scope. They are Lee C277-135 RF sized .279, lubed with SuperMoly, gas checked, 10 grains of Red Dot, and seated to an overall length of 3.075.

[Rcmaveric]

Nailed it. The sweet taste of success. Its addicting.

[sigep1764]

I seated those Lymans just a little bit deeper. It helped a little on the hard bolt closing, but not the groups. I seated the Lees just a bit deeper as well, exposing only one lube groove and voila, SUCCESS!!! I fired those Lee groups after 40 rounds of Lyman loads and the rifle was hot. I was pretty dejected over the first 4 Lyman groups and wasn't expecting much out of the remaining 20 loads. The first two shots were in one hole and I thought the hell with it, lets bear down again and see. Girlfriend walked onto the range behind me without me knowing as I brought the target back. I almost fell out of my seat when she yelled "Looks like your done researching that one" while I was admiring the work that was just done. She just recently started carrying my LCP and she joined me to practice after work. It was a good day.

[Rcmaveric]

Awesome. I have to bring rounds or the wife while i expermint. God forbid she plays with 22LR like a normal adult child kid...

These are mine. No crimp. Depending on brass length normal leaves the crimp groove and first lube groove exposed. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180619/cc42f706e742bba933e207ebd248453d.jpg

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[sigep1764]

222333

Looks like we are at the same length if thats the same boolit?

[Rcmaveric]

As long as its the right depth for you. You just barely have your first lube groove covered. That first groove is the crimp groove. When I am seated to 3.13