Quenching Powder Coated Boolits

[GregLaROCHE]

Hello Everyone,

I haven’t powder coated yet, but I am gearing up to. I normally quench my boolits to get them as hard as I can, because I use mostly just range scrap.

Since powder coating heats to 400*, won’t that start to anneal them? If I quench them after the powder coating, will that assure me the same hardness! Do I even need to quench them after casting them?

Thanks for everyone’s input and advice.

[MyFlatline]

May I ask why you desire such a high BHN? 10-12 BHN coated does not lead in anything I own. I quench from the mold with range lead but not from the oven. I have read that some do.

[Lloyd Smale]

Why? Because coating prevents leading but harder bullets 9 times out of 10 outshoot softer ones.

[MyFlatline]

I have not noticed or experienced that. Just saying.
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[Bulldog71]

I couldn't help to chime in here since I have always wondered if the pc process with baking the bullets had any effect on bhn so here ya go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grao7a2YPPE
I found this guys channel very informative on this exact subject.
Oh wait...heres another vid. This is the one you are probably interested in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fbjs-lErL0

[bangerjim]

I also ask......why the heck to you think you need such hard boolits!?!?!?!?!

10-12 works for 90% of what I shoot. PC = NO LEADING/NO GREASE/NO SMOKE when shooting. Just follow correct loading techniques.

You didn’t say anything about your alloy you are using other than “SCRAP”. That could mean anything from soft Pb pipes to range junk. You will not get a whole lot of extra hardening unless you have a good amount of Sb in there, and bake them at higher temps & longer times than the PC standard of 400/10. I was one of the original group of several people on here that started playing around with PC years ago and have tried almost everything one can imagine when it comes to hardness/dropping/soaking with PC. Just forget the hardness from water dropping thing and PC away!

I see no difference between accuracies with hard boolits vs. PC softer boolits. Other than leading can and does occur with non-PC.

As far as quenching.......no need for it with PC! Forget the old ways, try the new way - PC!

If range scrap, it should be in the 10-13 range most times. That is hard enough (with PC) for all but the highest velocity rifles.

Good luck on your quest.

Banger

[GregLaROCHE]

I also ask......why the heck to you think you need such hard boolits!?!?!?!?!

10-12 works for 90% of what I shoot. PC = NO LEADING/NO GREASE/NO SMOKE when shooting. Just follow correct loading techniques.

You didn’t say anything about your alloy you are using other than “SCRAP”. That could mean anything from soft Pb pipes to range junk. You will not get a whole lot of extra hardening unless you have a good amount of Sb in there, and bake them at higher temps & longer times than the PC standard of 400/10. I was one of the original group of several people on here that started playing around with PC years ago and have tried almost everything one can imagine when it comes to hardness/dropping/soaking with PC. Just forget the hardness from water dropping thing and PC away!

I see no difference between accuracies with hard boolits vs. PC softer boolits. Other than leading can and does occur with non-PC.

As far as quenching.......no need for it with PC! Forget the old ways, try the new way - PC!

If range scrap, it should be in the 10-13 range most times. That is hard enough (with PC) for all but the highest velocity rifles.

Good luck on your quest.

Banger

I’m using range scrap from an indoor range where you can’t shoot jacked bullets. There are a lot of black powder shooters using pure lead and others who have cast their own, but I have no idea of what alloys they are using. No one I know has a bin tester and I haven’t wanted to spend the money to buy something I will seldom use. My fingernail leaves a mark, but not as much as pure lead. I have been quenching to add a little hardness and it doesn’t take any extra time.

I have been shooting .30 cal. light loads exploring sub-sonic. No problems with leading. Now I want to step up the velocity. Most people I know use pure lead and add linotype to harden it. Some use gas checks and others don’t. If you powder coat, do you still need to use gas checks with higher pressure loads?

[MyFlatline]

Research pencil testing for lead, I did it that way until I could swing a good BHN tester.

[Advil]

We aren't shooting for long range accuracy but we drop every basket full of bullets right out of the oven into a water bucket. It really does help keep the bullets from being as stuck together. Fringe benefit... They're getting quenched too. It doesn't really add to the time. Just dump on to a towel, dry and start sizing.

[fredj338]

I rarely quench while casting, range scrap with some clip ww easily does anything I want it to do in most handguns to 1200fps or so. I do water drop out of the oven when PC or HT (2nd bake on HT). In bhn testing, I get a little bump, like 3-4BHN.

[Eddie17]

I drop cast boolits, an PC boolits in water to allow for quicker handiling. Dry both on trays under a fan in a controlled environment.
Most of my cast are from reclaimed birdshot. Usually tests at 15 or above BNH.
Just find dropping in water makes things guicker foe me.

[rsrocket1]

Powder coating is about 2H pencil hardness which is BHN of about 22 (monotype or quenched WW) so it's already tough enough for the ride down the barrel. With PC, you already have a very tough surface even with wheel weight mix. I use reclaimed lead shot which has virtually no tin in it. I routinely shoot PC'ed 9mm @ 1100-1200 fps, 40 @ 1000 fps and yesterday shot 50 rounds of .357 Magnum 158g PC bullets at 1200 fps (a lot of fun!). So don't worry about "slumping bullets" going down the barrel and don't worry about leading the barrel because of too soft an alloy. With PC it won't happen unless the powder is not properly applied or something else is happening to the bullet like cutting through the powder coating during seating/crimping.

[Walter Laich]

I line my bullets up long axis facing true N (doesn't matter which end is on N end

Then at one hour before Solar Noon I put them out in the sun

In next 2 hours Huitzilopochtli, Aztec God of Sun (and War) will harden the bullets to a perfect BHN of 18.639

But that's only in Houston area.

[evoevil]

check out Elvis ammo on YouTube, he does a lot of testing. I water quench after coating

[Stilly]

IIRC, if you still wanted to water quench, then you should fire your pills up to about 400 deg for an hour (after being coated and after sizing) and then after that hour, take them out and immediately drop them into very cold water (get a 2-3 gallon bucket or use a folgers plastic container and fill it with ice and water (more water than ice) so that your ice is just a layer across the top after it is mostly chilled) and let it sit for a few hours or well, just let them sit. Then, take them out later or the next day and do not resize them. After about 2 weeks they should be very hard. I forgot the bhn numbers. I have them in my PC booklet I made.

[lazs]

good thread. I have water dropped bullets since I started casting in the 70's... now... I had never heard of it but when I seen all these guys carefully dropping bullets onto a towel I said..."too much work" I read where if the towel was damp the bullets cooled faster and you could handle em quicker! Ok.. so if damp is good... a 5 of water is better right? and it was. I could pull the bullets right out of the bucket and take a look or let em dry and size em later. well... I was mostly shooting 44 mag loads at fairly brisk velocities... more then than now... but I did notice that my bullets seemed pretty darn hard. Never gave it much thought as they shot well. They still leaded if I didn't match the barrel/throat sizes but all in all... pretty good.

Sooo.. enter PC and HT coatings. By now everyone is water dropping or 'quenching' as it is now called... Again.. .I am water dropping my coated bullets... because... again... I am lazy. I don't stand up my PC bullets at all and sometimes just throw the smaller (like 9mm) ones in the oven still piled up in the strainer. I dump em right into water when cooked and they come apart WAY better than not water dropped. But mostly.. .again.. .I can handle em sooner.

I use scrap lead. always have.. unknown alloys unknown hardness... pencil tests show water dropped ones I make are close to 20 BNH for just about any of em. good enough maybe more than good enough. but for sure easy.

lazs

[Wolftracker]

I have a theory that seems to pan out when shooting PC's rifle bullets in my .308. Higher velocities seem to require harder bullets. Not because of leading but to achieve and keep accuracy. Harder bullets deform less going down the bore and flying through the air. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

[Dragonheart]

Bangerjim, you can lead a horse to water........................ What so many seem to be missing it is a properly coated & cured polymer jacket that makes the difference not the bhn. The gospel long established with lubed bullets doesn't apply to PC. According to the alloy pressure tables, if you shoot pure lead at handgun velocities, no matter what kind of grease you put on the bullet, you will have barrel leading. Properly PC that same pure lead and at 1400 fps you have no leading because the bullet has a hard tough polymer jacket.

I cast nothing but range scrap, which is a mix of everything from 22 to muzzleloaders. I melt down 200+ pounds of ingots at a time so I get a good mix of everything. I have tested bhn and it seems to constantly run between 11-12.

What I have learned about powder coating since 2012 is water quenching cast bullets only increases the possibility of contamination resulting in a poor PC bond. Since I always run two molds simultaneously I air cool. I can understand water quenching to cool PC bullets down faster so you can start sizing sooner, but the added bhn I have found no benefit.

[Tripplebeards]

I quenched my pure coww boolits in ice water immediately after casting. It took them from 14.3 Bh to 33 Bh. I then PC'd and quenched in ice water again as soon as they came out of the oven. After sitting for three weeks I tested the PC'd quenched boolits. They had a BH back at the original 14.3, the same as if I air cooled them. Reheating during the PCing process takes all the hardness that quenching gave them. there is no need to make boolit harder than coww for most applications anyways unless I'm elephant hunting.

[bluejay75]

I have not noticed or experienced that. Just saying.
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Do you mind showing the guns these are shooting out of.

[cwlongshot]

I used to just water drop my real hard bullets...but realized its easier for me they cool faster and I like it.
Now that I am PC as well, I simply do the same for the same reasons. Now I quench all of them.

CW