Muzzle Clamp Rest

[joeb33050]

THE MUZZLE CLAMP REST
I've had good luck using a muzzle clamp on a front rest with a flat surface and a conventional rear bag.. Any rifle tested with this setup shoots as accurately as with conventional sandbag rests front and rear.
It seemed reasonable to extend the muzzle clamp to eliminate the need for the front rest completely. I measured a set of rifles and found that when supported on a rear bag and level, the bore was from 7-1/2" to 9-1/2" above the bench. This gave me dimensions to work with in the design of the "muzzle clamp rest".
On a visit north I got my brother the cabinet maker to make the first try out of wood, then got my son to weld together the second try. Because I have absolutely no design or fabrication skills, my method of attack in a project like this is to badger others into making samples and then throwing each try away until a satisfactory model is made. The second try followed the first into the trash can, but Experimental Model #3 was kept, and seems to fit various rifles well. This is fortunate, since I sensed patience wearing thin in the north.
Here are pictures of #3.
I'm working on the design of a device that, coupled with the muzzle clamp rest, will eliminate the need for sandbags and rest completely.

[DLCTEX]

Is rest to barrel contact padded? Is there padding between the bench and the foot of the rest? Would seem to cause bounce without it. DALE

[jameslovesjammie]

Does the point of impact change from when you use the clamp and not? I would think it would really affect barrel harmonics and point of aim.

[TCLouis]

+1 what Jameslovejammie said.

[44man]

The rifles I have shot lately would pull the rest from the bench, slide through the clamp and tear off the front sight! :bigsmyl2:

[Boerrancher]

You can't put upward pressure on a barrel and not change the point of impact from where it was shooting off hand or with the rear sandbag under the receiver. I have an M14 springfield and the original springfield bipod that clamps on to the barrel. When using the bipod that rifle shoots 3 in higher at 100 yds than it does off hand or off the sandbags. Of course if you are only shooting minute of paper plate then any upward pressure won't make any different.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[yondering]

I usually try not to be negative, but that seems like a really crappy idea. There's a HUGE difference between resting on the forearm and on the barrel itself. That's why I try to never touch the barrel with my fingers (while shooting) and field rests are always against the forearm, never the barrel.

Be aware that since this changes the harmonics of the barrel, your most accurate load with the clamp may not be anywhere close to your most accurate load with a normal rest or field position.

Never mind that you'll scratch up the bluing on the barrel, and maybe even damage the gun and/or bench if the barrel harmonics are severe enough.

[Doc Highwall]

Actually there is no problem, black powder bench guns do it all the time and BPCR with cross sticks. The ones I have shot were much shorter and had hard nylon feet. The problem is to find a nodal point on the barrel and not a over tone to attach the rest or to rest the barrel on with out applying downward pressure that will cause the gun to shoot high.

[shooter93]

A muzzle rest like Joe's will work just fine. It depends solely on it's intended use. Years ago Shutzen bench rest shooters used them exclusively.....the Pope rest being an example. They were shooting for the best group. The load was tailored to the gun in that rest arrangement, they didn't care about the poi difference when shooting offhand they had a load and sight adjustments for that too. It was simply group shooting from a bench. using black powder, breech seated soft lead boolits a TEN shot...sub 3/4 inch group was fired at 200 yards with this type of rest arrangement and it took 75 years with todays equipment to break it....it can work very well.

[yondering]

You are right, it will work fine IF that is the sole purpose.

However, it looks like a deer rifle (Savage SuperSporter?) which I really doubt is being used for BPCR or some other sport where it will only be fired from that position. The problem comes when people do something like this to sight in their guns or work up a load, then take it hunting and can't figure out why it hits 2 feet to the right (or something like that anyway).

[44man]

That is true for revolvers too. Some, if sighted from sandbags will not hit anywhere near off hand. Others will not change. Each gun and caliber seems to be different. If that rifle is sighted with that rest, it will not shoot the same when it is removed. If it does work for testing loads, it is somewhat useful but it could also effect the load itself, showing results that will prove to be different when it is removed.
Shooting with the thing hanging from offhand will be far different then when it is rested on a table too. It will tend to bang away from the table.
To just gain a tighter hold from the bench is not enough.

[joeb33050]

Is rest to barrel contact padded? Is there padding between the bench and the foot of the rest? Would seem to cause bounce without it. DALE

The barrel/rest is padded with masking tape. Foot of the rest is on 2 acorn nuts.
joe b.

[joeb33050]

Does the point of impact change from when you use the clamp and not? I would think it would really affect barrel harmonics and point of aim.

My guns shoot slightly higher with the muzzle clamp.
joe b.

[Cherokee]

Something about clamping the barrel just bothers me.

[John Boy]

Joe, I would be interested to hear:
Group averages: with the top band clamped on the barrel to dampen the barrel harmonics v the barrel just resting on the bottom clamp with the top one not attached. Of course, the group will be higher or lower

Also, what do you use to rest or possibly clamp the butt stock? Suggestion: Bolt the rest to a piece of 4x6 wood plank

To me, sounds like your front rest is the makings of a 'Sled Rest' used by Pope and Dr Mann. I like it!

[bigborefan]

I have been using a muzzle clamp to test loads for a Pedersoli 45-90 1874 Sharps and a Shiloh 45/110 Sharps. The trick is to find the sweet spot on the barrel and clamp your muzzle clamp on that spot. It's a matter of trial and error finding this spot for me. Some guys can find this spot by banging on the barrel with a rawhide method, but I had no luck with this method. I shoot blackpowder in both rifles and have found loads for each rifle at or under a MOA at 100 yards using Soule sights and this muzzle clamp that I have made. I line the inside of the clamp that clamps the barrel with velcro strips that have adhesive backing. Using this method, I take all the variables out of testing, especially any canting of the barrel that can happen using a traditional rest. Works for me anyways.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/SSCamaro427/Sharps45-90012-1.jpg

[Doc Highwall]

bigborefan, the muzzle clamp I used was like yours but had nylon feet to allow the clamp to slide with more consistent friction on the wood top.

[bigborefan]

Doc, Since this picture was taken, I have glued a piece of countertop material to keep the muzzle break from digging into the would and also glide more efficiently. I also rounded the bottom edges slightly for the same reason.

[Bret4207]

There's no reason the barrel clamp rest won't work. The old timers like Pope used a rest that sat at the extreme end of the barrel. Check out Dr. Manns test in "The Bullets Flight". He's just shooting for groups.