Opinions on Heavy 30/06 Boolits (190gr+)

[davidheart]

So I was curious about one thing.... but that's with an understanding of the following premise:0


Best hunting velocity seems to be ~1600-1800 according to several forum posts I've found here. I don't know this personally.
The 30/06 is capable of shooting a 190-210gr boolit to 2400fps (Lyman 3rd ed.)
The best deer/elk hunting boolits have Flat Points to break bone.

I know about the Lyman 311299 and 311284.... but those are both round nose. I feel shooting a 150-170gr FN boolit for hunting deer at 1700fps performs a disservice to the case capacity of the 30/06 and I would like to find a go-to FN boolit, greater than 190gr for general deer hunting under 200 yards.


Does such an animal exist?
What has y'all's shooting experience been with it?
Would a FN ~200ish grain 30 caliber boolit have stability problems at 200?
Have any of you hunted with the #311299, #311284, or similar and found great success?

Thank you so much for your time and opinions! :bigsmyl2:

[Tatume]

I like the Lee 170 grain, flat point, gas check bullet (C309-170-F) at 2150 fps. It's easy on the gun and shooter, extremely accurate, and kills like lightening.

[ShooterAZ]

The Noe version of the 311041 is listed at 180 grains cast in wheelweights. It's a flat nose, and the 311041 has been used extensively for hunting big game in the 30-06 for many, many years. I have this mold in brass and it casts like a dream. Accurate can cut you a FP mold in 200+ grains as well, but truthfully you don't need to go that heavy IMHO.

[Outpost75]

Accurate has a bunch of heavy flat-nosed bullets suitable for hunting in the .30-'06, a sampling:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-190H-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-194F-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-200L-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-210BG-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-215B-D.png

[Jack Stanley]

I've found great accuracy with the heavies and stability doesn't seem to be any problem . good groups between 1150 and 2300 feet per second . I'm sure you can find a good alloy and powder charge to make any of those Accurate designs work . I would ask if anyone has had feeding problems with the 190H though .

Jack

[brewer12345]

I just finished load work up with the noe 311 195, which ended up at 198 grains. I was attracted to the big meplat and high ballistic coefficient. It took a couple of ladders to find a good load, but I eventually did, 28 grains of 4198 which should be around 1900 fps. We will see how.it does on deer this fall, but that size slug with a big meplat should do the trick nicely.

[RPRNY]

311284 is very effective in the 30-40 out to 300 yards and is an ideal bullet for elk, so there is no reason at all that it wouldn't be as effective in the 30-06 case. Match alloy to desired terminal velocity and work backwards to design load. In my experience, BHN 16-18 and a MV of 1600 - 1800 will give you solid terminal performance with correct shot placement to 250 - 300 yards.

[W.R.Buchanan]

That Lee boolit is available in weights from 150 to 205 gr. My mold is the C309-190 GC. It is an accurate flat point boolit that works well in any .30 cal cartridge.

Sweet spot for accuracy is around 1800 fps.

Randy

[lotech]

I've used .30 caliber cast bullets for deer hunting and am not a big fan, preferring something of larger diameter. However, several years ago, Erik Ohlen hollowpointed a #314299 mould for me. It's now more of a flatnose design and the hollowpoint is fairly large in diameter. I have not used it on game. Cast of ww alloy and sized at .311", weight is about 200 grains and has been quite accurate in everything I've fired it in, including.30-40, .308, and .30-06. Muzzle velocities run between about 1600-1700 fps, maybe a little more.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have an excellent Accurate mould that drops them 200 grains tried them in my 30-30 not so good results they are fantastic out of my 300 BO and my 308 scout rifles at moderate velocities.

[brewer12345]

Lotech, did you have poor results with 30 cal hunting? Care to elaborate?

[davidheart]

Lotech, did you have poor results with 30 cal hunting? Care to elaborate?
Yeah that's actually the first time I've heard that. Usually what I hear are success stories regarding a soft 30 caliber bullet hunting?

As a note I had 10 Lyman 311299 I found in a little baggie on my reloading bench yesterday. My guess is I pulled them from a Duke's box once upon a time. Sized .310 and of unknown alloy. I was curious to try them out so I loaded them over 27 grains and 28 grains of IMR 4227. The results for both loads were same hole at 25 yards with one 1 inch flyer. I wonder if I where to flatten the nose slighty with a top punch when Lube & sizing if it would be a perfectly suitable hunting boolit? Or if it would even matter.....

I'm thinking a 30/06 boolit in excess of 190 of soft alloy will provide wonderful expansion and excellent penetration when compared to a 30/30 150-170 gr.

[Tatume]

I use hard bullets for load development and practice. But then I cast a few relatively soft bullets for hunting. As a test I'll shoot a group with the hard bullets, and then fire one soft bullet. If it goes into the group, I'm satisfied.

At the speeds I use, the soft bullets will lead the barrel. But if I only fire one to kill a deer, who cares?

[lotech]

Lotech, did you have poor results with 30 cal hunting? Care to elaborate?

I no longer hunt deer and only shot two, maybe three, with cast bullets, years ago using a .30-40 Krag and a .30-06. Fortunately, didn't lose one nor did I have to do any tracking. Kills just didn't happen as quickly as when using jacketed bullets at higher velocity. Only shot one more deer with a cast bullet and used a .38-55, which I prefer for hunting.

I think if the alloy allows adequate expansion and the range is reasonable for the velocity, a .30 caliber bullet will work fine, but I believe a larger diameter bullet will work at least a little better.

My results on a few deer certainly prove nothing conclusively.

[longbow]

Coincidentally I just posted info on another thread for heavy .30-30 load using the Lyman 311284 (210 grs.).

Written up in my old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd ed. Frank Marshall used that boolit over 30 gr. 4350 for his hunting load and he used his sizer to bump the boolit a bit and put a flat nose on it. So, you are thinking along the same lines.

Longbow

[nagantguy]

I like the Lee 170 grain, flat point, gas check bullet (C309-170-F) at 2150 fps. It's easy on the gun and shooter, extremely accurate, and kills like lightening.

Also exactly where I stopped, works well in every 30 tried and kills well.

[HangFireW8]

Consider the RCBS 30-180-FN. Despite the 180 moniker it comes in at about 193.5 grains with my WW+2% tin, before GC and lube.

I've just started playing with it, so no hunting results yet, but it has a huge meplat, the weight you're looking for, and all my initial trials have been quite accurate. (And unlike my new Lyman molds, is happy to drop around .310" diameter or more, depending on the alloy and temp).

[lotech]

The RCBS 30-180 FN is the bullet I used for deer hunting. Very good accuracy in most .30 caliber rifles. If I was to try hunting with this bullet again, I would experiment and make up the absolute softest alloy that would shoot accurately and provide good consistent expansion, even if it leaded the bore slightly.

I haven't cast any of these recently, but I think they come out of the mould around .311", maybe a little more, with ww alloy, and right at 190 grs.

[brewer12345]

The RCBS 30-180 FN is the bullet I used for deer hunting. Very good accuracy in most .30 caliber rifles. If I was to try hunting with this bullet again, I would experiment and make up the absolute softest alloy that would shoot accurately and provide good consistent expansion, even if it leaded the bore slightly.

I haven't cast any of these recently, but I think they come out of the mould around .311", maybe a little more, with ww alloy, and right at 190 grs.


This is what I have been playing with, albeit the noe copy. I picked it because the meplat is so large, .19" which is close to the .22" meplat on my well regarded rcbs 35 200 mold I use for the fatter 35 rem. Seems to me I should get good performance with good energy transfer. My alloy is 11 bhn or so and is relatively tin heavy at about 3% so I imagine the boolits will flatten somewhat when it hits. I found usable hunting accuracy with a load that is around 1900 fps based on lyman data for similar boolits (no chronograph).

[45-70 Chevroner]

The RCBS 30-180 FN is the bullet I used for deer hunting. Very good accuracy in most .30 caliber rifles. If I was to try hunting with this bullet again, I would experiment and make up the absolute softest alloy that would shoot accurately and provide good consistent expansion, even if it leaded the bore slightly.

I haven't cast any of these recently, but I think they come out of the mould around .311", maybe a little more, with ww alloy, and right at 190 grs.

This is the best boolit I have ever used. For hunting or all around shooting it is the most accurate boolit that I have, and I have four other molds in 30 cal. My best accuracy is at about 1800 FPS in my 30-30 and my 30-06. My mold drops consistent 190 gr. from both cavities.

[Moonie]

I loaded the Accurate Molds 245gr at 1,950fps in my 30-06 with 35gr H4895. It shot very well, and I'm sure would penetrate through about anything I'd want to shoot with it.

[davidheart]

Awesome feedback! Thanks guys. Some of the NOE molds have BC's of over .5 which is pretty impressive for a cast boolit! (311-230-FN)

@Brewer, I just took a look and the NOE TL310-180-RF has a .225 meplat just in case you're looking for something closer to your 35!

[Elkins45]

I loaded the Accurate Molds 245gr at 1,950fps in my 30-06 with 35gr H4895. It shot very well, and I'm sure would penetrate through about anything I'd want to shoot with it.

I have the hollow point version of the mold. I think that with the cupped point pins it would behave a lot like a flat pointed hollow point. You would get the initial impact of a flat point but the cupped point might help initiate a little bit of expansion.

[evoevil]

heavy bullets fly good. I'm looking at the NOE 180gr in 308

[15meter]

My 311284 makes a nice flat nose boolit when I can't find the right nose punch and I use a flat
punch instead ��

And they shoots ridiculously well out of the 4 M1's and the 03A3 even with the mushed nose.

[davidheart]

I have the hollow point version of the mold. I think that with the cupped point pins it would behave a lot like a flat pointed hollow point. You would get the initial impact of a flat point but the cupped point might help initiate a little bit of expansion.

That's awesome. So it's just a "cup" and not a deep hollow point?

I wonder if NOE makes a 311284 or similar with a cup or flat nose... Or is this something reserved to Accurate? Aren't their molds significantly more extensive or am I wrong? Their website it dizzying to me....

[robert12345]

Humm...

Don't bother to waste a lot of time thinking about it.

Cast bullets should be heavy for elk, but,, a cast bullet in 30-06, no matter the weight, does a dis-service to the elk.

Yes, you can drop an elk with 3006/cast bullet, but there are better cast cartridges for it.
.
.
Cast for deer:

Just about any heavy, (or about any light weight) cast bullet in 30 caliber will just pass thru both sides.

So, as for bullet weight, it's rather pick your poison.

Cast a bullet between 150, and 200 grains, launch at about 1800 to 2000 fps, make sure it shoots inside 4 inches at 100 yds,

and keep your shooting distance at less than 150 yards, ...then be sure to properly place the shot.
.
Keeping all this in mind, it really does not matter which bullet , or bullet weight you choose.
Pick one, load it right, and shoot it right.
.
.
As for 311284, that bullet has a very long bore ride nose section, and it will usually only fit old military throats, ....not so much throats like the Rem 700, or old Winchester model 70.

311284 bullet works great in the 03 Springfield rifle, and especially well in the 30-/40 Krag....
.
Were I to pick a bullet for 3006, I would go with the 180 grain RCBS flat point, cast it from air cooled wheel weights, ...launch at 1800 to 2000 fps, make sure it is accurate enough, and be done with it.

[Throwback]

Don't worry about bullet profile. Rn is fine at 1800 fps instrumental velocity. I've had good performance with 311299 (best) and 311284.

[brewer12345]

@Brewer, I just took a look and the NOE TL310-180-RF has a .225 meplat just in case you're looking for something closer to your 35!

Honestly, I was looking for a higher BC boolit with a sizable meplat that I could run up to 1900+ FPS. I got that in the 311 195. If I think I will have to take a 250 yard shot I will slap in a mag of jacketed, but mostly I don't like taking those very long shots so I would rather creep closer or pass on the shot.

[texasnative46]

DavidHeart,

A deacon from our church, who is a fanatic moose hunter & goes to AK frequently, shoots a .309/240 grain GCCB at about 1900-2000FPS without problems out of his Model 700BDL. - He's been known to say that "the TX heart shot" works fine with that BIG/heavy for caliber boolit.

Personally, a 200 grain boolit is the heaviest that I've tried in my Model 760 rifles.

yours, tex

[davidheart]

....As for 311284, that bullet has a very long bore ride nose section, and it will usually only fit old military throats, ....not so much throats like the Rem 700, or old Winchester model 70....

Awesome. My rifle is a 1952 Columbian Mauser in 30/06. :D

There's some pitting in the barrel and the muzzle isn't overly attractive. It'd be a good thing if I could get my hands on some 311284 for testing. The 311299 that I had shot well at 25 yards and I couldn't seat it out long enough for the boolit forward of the driving band to engage... Perhaps the 311284 is similar.

I appreciate all the comments. It definitely gives me some food for thought and positive ideas!

[Elkins45]

That's awesome. So it's just a "cup" and not a deep hollow point?

I wonder if NOE makes a 311284 or similar with a cup or flat nose... Or is this something reserved to Accurate? Aren't their molds significantly more extensive or am I wrong? Their website it dizzying to me....

NOE makes hollow point molds with captive pins so they automatically align and release themselves, called RG molds. I don’t think Accurate makes any sort of hollow point molds at all.

You can swap the pins on a NOE mold. Most of mine came with a deep HP, a cupped point and a flat nose pin. Let me see if I can find a picture of a NOE with a cupped point.

[Trinidad Bill]

You have to love the .30-06, just a wonderful cartridge. Which is why the majority of my rifles are chambered in .30-06.

[evoevil]

Just got a noe 180 in 311, will know soon

[quilbilly]

Some years back I did a terminal ballistics test with the Lee 160 gr RNGC out of my 30/30 at 40 yards. The MV was 1550 fps and the media was soaked, composed phone books. The result was spectacular for both penetration and wound channel which told me that at that MV I would be good for deer out to about 150 yards (about as far as I can get a sight picture with iron sights anyway). This past fall I filled my doe tag with a huge 200#+ doe at 80 yards with a 140 gr 7MM Lee RFGC boolit that started out at a leisurely 1700 fps and the result was a huge wound channel and complete penetration (she went about 30 yards). High velocity is overrated when you are using cast lead if your shots are under 200 yards and your quarry is deer. BTW - my 308 scout loves those heavy boolits around 190 gr. and an MV of 1800 fps so I will be using it for bear this summer if my business schedule allows and even elk if I were to hunt elk with a modern firearm. For the record, my thoughts are colored by the Olympic Peninsula where visibility is extremely limited and shots average well under 80 yards for deer, bear, or elk (often under 15 yards).

[Elkins45]

This is the NOE 311299 with the cupped point pins

218278

[9.3X62AL]

I use the Lee 200 grain with the spire-type point in 30-06, cast as a Bruce B Soft Point. "Donor slug" is the Lyman #257420 in pure lead.

[waco]

I like the NOE 312290
Mine end up around 225gr.http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=30_362