Pump Shotguns?

[BD]

I find myself in the liberal land of central NY where the folk are nice and friendly, and the laws are convoluted and numerous. I came here innocently enough with my trusty 16 gauge model 12 and my cut down swede "scout" type rifle. I figured I was set for most any hunting I'd encounter in this north east socialist utopia which requires out of state residents to surrender their constitutional rights at the border, (no handguns for furriners). The long and short of it is that I need to purchase some form of slug gun if I want to hunt deer in this county.

That's not really so bad, as a man can't own too many shotguns. But it does raise some questions:

The local Bass Pro Shop has both a Mossberg 835 with a long slug barrel, thumb hole stock and a cantilevered scope mount for 288.89 (on sale), and a Mossberg 535 packaged with a 26" smooth tube and a 20" rifled slug barrel with open sights for 339.99 (on sale).

I know what a Mossberg 500 is, and I have some limited experience with the 590. Can anyone explain what the 835 and 535 are in comparison to the 500 or 590?

I did notice that the 535 has a different mag tube end which would prevent a mag tube extension. But, as the mag tube ring is attached to the barrel, if I wanted a different self defense/3 gun match type barrel and tube extension, could I just swap in an 18" barrel and 7 shot tube?

Are the receivers the same? They looked the same although the 535 felt like it had 5 miles of dirt road built right in.

Any Mossberg experts out there? My goal in buying a "modern" shotgun is to achieve multi purpose: Slug gun for deer, pump for waterfowl which will survive heavy shot, and home defense/3 gun match gun with a 20" smooth bore and the longest mag tube I can find.
Any advice?

BD

[corvette8n]

My nephew has a Maverick 88 with I think is like a Mossberg 500, got himself a doe with it using open sights, I nevershot it so I can't comment directly. Have you though about a muzzleloader my 2nd CVA would outshoot my Savage 110 in .308 great gun I'm sorry I sold it. Many NY wmu's have early and late muzzleloading seasons, One of my co-workers sold his Winchester 30-30 and uses his muzzleloader exclusively.

[mike in co]

can't use a muzzle loader in three gun...and might be tuff on the fowl too.....

[Johnch]

The local Bass Pro Shop has both a Mossberg 835 with a long slug barrel, thumb hole stock and a cantilevered scope mount for 288.89 (on sale), and a Mossberg 535 packaged with a 26" smooth tube and a 20" rifled slug barrel with open sights for 339.99 (on sale).

I know what a Mossberg 500 is, and I have some limited experience with the 590. Can anyone explain what the 835 and 535 are in comparison to the 500 or 590?

The 835 has a back bored barrel , but the slug barrel is of the standard style
In simple terms , it is oversized to reduce pressure and it is suposed to pattern better
It is chambered for 3.5" shells , so it can shoot any length hull

The 535 has a standard bore dia for the shot barrel

The 500 can hold 6 total shells or 8 for the extend securty / home defence models
The 590 is extended to hold 9 and has a different barrel set up that meets the Army's spec's

But last time I looked
They droped the vent rib barrel for the 500 8 shot gun
I was told you can sweet talk Mossberg into making you a 28" vent rib , but you pay through the nose for it
Also as far as I know , they never maded a vent rib barrel for the 590

I did notice that the 535 has a different mag tube end which would prevent a mag tube extension. But, as the mag tube ring is attached to the barrel, if I wanted a different self defense/3 gun match type barrel and tube extension, could I just swap in an 18" barrel and 7 shot tube?
No
No Mossberg can not axcept a mag extension
And the 8 shot barrels will not fit the 6 shot guns

Are the receivers the same? They looked the same although the 535 felt like it had 5 miles of dirt road built right in.
The 500 is a 3" gun , the 535 is a 3.5" gun
That is the only differance
The 835 and 590 are also not able to axcept any other models barrel


BD

Mossberg makes a decent shotgun
But they are not very alterable
And to me they feel like a club


But IMO the Remington 870 Supermag is better suited to your needs

It will shoot 3.5" shells
But any 2 3/4" or 3" barrel will fit it ( just have to use the right length shells )
A simple retro fit will allow you to add any mag extention you want

Everyone makes toys to fit 870's

John

[shotman]

i will 2nd john go with the 870 if you want to sell down the road you can get your money back -- mossy about half

[mike in co]

"The 500 can hold 6 total shells or 8 for the extend securty / home defence models
The 590 is extended to hold 9 and has a different barrel set up that meets the Army's spec's "

to the best of my knowledge.(.i have been wrong, but i have shot against usgi 590's with my 590), it is an 8 shot gun. both are 8 plus 1 and thus you sometimes hear of them as 9 shot. the big diff is the "heft" the reciever and bbl are both heavier on the usgi 590.

i cycle my 590 very qucikly. in local three gun matches, i am one of the top two pump guns and we often beat a bunch of the gas guns. not bad for a "club".


mike in co

[bobk]

There's pros and cons. I like both the guns mentioned, plus the old Ithaca 37s. To me, the Moss has the most comfortable pistol grip add-on of anything. The minus, for me, is the tang mounted safety. This makes it ambidextrous, but since I'm not, it is of little benefit, and is difficult to manipulate with a pistol grip. I prefer a safety to the rear of the trigger guard, which is fast. The only other "problem", and this experience relates to only one gun (haven't tried other Mossies), was an obnoxious disconnector. I practically had to push the forearm forward to get it to work fast. I corrected that, though.

Other things to remember: a semi can be used with one hand, provided you have a buttstock affixed, and barrel length is relatively unimportant, with proper shotgun technique (assuming you have use of both hands).
Bob K

[mike in co]

Other things to remember: a semi can be used with one hand, provided you have a buttstock affixed, and barrel length is relatively unimportant, with proper shotgun technique (assuming you have use of both hands).
Bob K

a pump can be used one handed....done it, seen it done...not fast, but not down and out.

mike in co

[bigdog454]

I have two young sons who hunt deer in Ohio ( a slug gun state), one uses a 870 the other uses a Moss 500. They both kill deer, sometimes more then me.
(ps. they both shoot 20 ga 2 3/4 in slugs.)

[MT Gianni]

I am not a shotgun guy, but bought a Mossburg 500 around '94 with a slug bbl. It has sights that shoot to near point of aim with factory slugs. When Montana had a 5 deer shotgun season in 260 I shot 7 or 8 with it and only 1 required a 2nd shot. It was at 110 yards and I hit it too far back. Get one that fits you. Gianni

[BD]

I'm not too worried about resale, and I like the tang mounted safety. I'd just like to be able to configure this shotgun with a long barrel for waterfowl and a short barrel/hi cap mag for deer and 3 gun. Can I do this with a M500? I see these for sale new under $300 and used at around $200. The 870s go for over $600 new and around $400 used. Barrels for the 870s are also about $100 higher at brownells. That said, if I can't get there with a M500 I'll quit trying.

I'm also curious about the advantages of a "fully rifled" slug barrel as opposed to a smooth bore for slugs, and how does this fit into the various rules prohibiting hunting with rifles?

BD

[badgeredd]

I'm not too worried about resale, and I like the tang mounted safety. I'd just like to be able to configure this shotgun with a long barrel for waterfowl and a short barrel/hi cap mag for deer and 3 gun. Can I do this with a M500? I see these for sale new under $300 and used at around $200. The 870s go for over $600 new and around $400 used. Barrels for the 870s are also about $100 higher at brownells. That said, if I can't get there with a M500 I'll quit trying.

I'm also curious about the advantages of a "fully rifled" slug barrel as opposed to a smooth bore for slugs, and how does this fit into the various rules prohibiting hunting with rifles?

BD

You'll find that with sabotted slugs the fully rifled barrels are usually extremely accurate. Some other slugs will take advantage of the rifling but you have to experiment to find the best one for you. Also rifled choke tubes improve slug accuracy but usually aren't "quite" as good. As for the rifle rule, here in Michigan a rifled shotgun is not a rifle, but I'd check the local laws on that because as we all know they can vary dramatically.

As for the rest of your question, I'm not familar enough with shot gun setups to answer you definitively, but I do know that there are a lot of accessory items for both the Mossberg 500 and the Reminton 870 although the Remington stuff seems to be higher, even when made by a third party. Hope I helped your quest a little.
Edd

[kaptag]

Being from NY and living in NY I have hunted whitetail my entire life with a shotgun. The 835 was created a fews years back for the turkey and holds a larger 3.5" shell. If you buy the 835, you will need to buy a shot barrel which will cost you easily another $125. The combo outfit as a Mossberg 500 is an excellent option for you. I currently hunt and have taken deer with my Mossberg 500. It has a rifled bore with cantilever scope mount. Works just fine. The difference between the rifled barrel and smoothbore is the use Sabot's. A Sabot slug, according to the pundits has better accuracy and a longer range. However, most deer kills in upstate NY is within 75yds (yes, that's my opinion) and furthermore I had a smoothbore Stevens Savage which @ 100yds all bullets are touching. My uncle now has that shotgun and it killed a deer last year. Another consideration is Sabot's can be pricey and regular slugs are relatively cheap. Sabots can be shot out of a smoothbore but regular slugs are not to be fired out of a rifled bore. If you plan on hunting ducks, geese, and turkey . . you may want to consdier the 835. If you want to shoot shorter shells in the 835, I think have to buy some type reducer (someone help me here). However, the 500 will work just fine. Now, as for your comment about not being able to own a handgun in NY, that is untrue. I live 25 miles from you, I own two handguns. Is it a PITA to get a handgun permit? You bet, but it can be done. As for Remington Shotgun's . . . they are great also. Having owned both I will tell you that I bought a Remington 870 (Synthetic Stock) from Gander Mtn last year for $280. If you want a Remington, be patient you may get lucky. If you need a gun for this fall . . . I use and hunt deer with my Mossberg 500. I will say this, the Mossberg stock is designed for a larger frame man and the wrist is a little too large for my small hand whereas the Remington has a smaller wrist which fits my hand nicely. I have noted that Mossberg has recently made the wrist area smaller on their synthetic modes. I also hunt with a flintlock smoothbore (it kills deer too). . . Hope this helps.

[725]

They all work. Mostly depends on what tickles your fancy. I like the 870. Seems better made to me. I put a Hastings heavy rifled barrel on mine and cut it back to 20 inches. Mounted a pistol scope on it and cut the stock to fit my short little arms. (Also to work when I'm bundled up in my winter Michelin man outfit.) I think Mossberg made a bolt action shotgun for slugs that was an absolute nail driver. My buddy has one and it's like an accrurized 12 ga. rifle with the sabots.

[crowbeaner]

BD; I too live, well, exist in the state of liberal know-nothings, and have limited experience with Mossberg shotguns. I had a 500 combo with a slug barrel and a vent rib shot barrel. If you go to the BPS in Auburn, you can get a 500 with a slug barrel for $279 and tax. I still have the new shot barrel for the 500 if you're interested. The slug barrel will be a smoothbore and capable of shooting the regular old Foster style slugs. If you get one with a rifled slug barrel it will necessitate using the expensive sabot slugs for optimum performance. The sabot slugs will shoot forther with better accuracy, but they will cost you $2 a pop or more. Some are $3 apiece! I hunt both the northern and southern zones each year, and there are some WMUs where rifles are allowed. You'll have to check the reg book to find those. Most of the counties close to us mandate shotguns or muzzleloaders, so you'll have to pick your gun. AFIK the 535,590, and 835 are 3 1/2" guns. They only kick harder with 3" slugs.
If you need more info, PM me and I'll tell you what I can. CB.

[Bret4207]

kaptag, BD is only gonna be in the State for a short while so going through the permit process wouldn't be worth it for him. Meanwhile, I hope he takes advantage of those lakes and the farmland hunting here in NY.

BD- Whats wrong with the M-12 16 ga and slugs?

[BD]

It's getting a little harder to say how long I might be here. The GC has been fired and I'm finding myself getting sucked in farther all the time. We made the news last night on channel 9, although I kept my trap shut at the meeting. I'm a little trapped re: the residency thing as I sold my house in SC on a "lease option to buy" arrangement, and I may take a bath on sales tax if I'm a non-resident when we settle. Plus everything I've heard about getting both my pistol permit and my CDL in NY sounds like a pretty long drawn out process.

My 16 gauge M12 has an original factory poly-choke on it and I'd rather not beat it up with slugs.
I tried them once with the choke wound open and the accuracy was pretty poor. I'm attached to that gun for upland small game. It was my grandfathers and I'd like to leave it to my daughter when I go.

I see deer almost every day and I'm looking forward to this fall. I'm also hoping to find a couple grouse to see if the griffon remembers what a bird is. I've spent some time on Skaneateles lake and I'm impressed with how clean and clear it is. Amazing considering how built up it is around here.

BD

[whisler]

I own and use a Mossberg 500 and love it. Even shoot Sporting clays with it on occasion. Not real well but I have fun and sometimes even hit true doubles with it. Mine is a Turkey gun with 24 in. barrel and swings very well for me.
From what i can see, you can not add an extended mag to a 500, because the mag cap is on the barrel.

[BD]

Ok, I've found quite a few M500's locally set up for deer with the 24" rifled barrels. These are going for $200 to $250. The local gunshop has a 500 combo with a 24" rifle sighted smooth bore and a 28 bird barrel for $295 which sounds like a deal. However, both of those barrels are ported. I've never shot a ported shotgun. Are they as annoying as a ported handgun?
Used model 870's are more scarce and much pricier.
BD

[crowbeaner]

No, actually the ported shottys are more pleasant to shoot; they kick less, and the ports are farther away from your ears so the noise increase seems less. That's a good price on the combo 500; you should buy it.

[9.3X62AL]

Ported shotguns aren't nearly as noisy and annoying as ported handguns--they run at lower pressures, and out toward the muzzle the pressures really fall off. That Mossback combo for $295 sounds like a pretty decent deal to me, too.

Can't speak for the Mosser, but my 870 Express and 20" RS smoothbore barrel will group 5 Foster slugs into 2.5"-3.0" at 50 yards very easily, often better. The Rem Express combos run a bit more than the Mossers, but that's a Ford/Chevy question really. The 870 Wingmasters run substantially more.

[MT Gianni]

BD, I paid $219 for my combo set around 94. That sounds OK in todays money. Gianni

[carpetman]

If you have a Win model 12 you wont like either the Rm 870 or the Mossbergs---they dont compare.

[runfiverun]

like ray says they are diferent in l.o.p.
drop at stock and the sight plane[rib] even the browning gold and the win x-2 are different
even though they are made at the same co.

[Ricochet]

On the Mossy 500s, since the lug on the barrel screws to the end of the mag cap, only the 20" barrel works with the 7 round mag.

[Old Ironsights]

On Mossys...

I have a 500 Marianer - it's the SS version with the Pistol Grip/Folding stock and 18" Riot tube.

I also have for it:

A standard Stock.

A RIFLE SIGHTED slug barrel. (IMO the cantilever Scope barrel sucks)

A .50 MUZZLELOADER barrel.

I'm thinking about getting an adjustable choke barrel for Wing Shooting.

Not the prettiest gun in the world, but DANG is it versitile...

[FISH4BUGS]

I couldn'r resist - this is a photo from Serbu's web site of my 6" barreled 3 shot Mossberg 500 Pump. Yes, it is registered with the ATF as an AOW (any other weapon). They start as a pistol grip shotgun and Mark Serbu cuts them down and does the folding front grip.
These are wonderfully fun to shoot. Totally useless for anything except a gunfight in a phone booth. But the cool factor gets them at the range every time!
It shoots 3" 20 ga. I passed on the 12 ga. The 20 ga. hurts enough with 3" magnums. He also makes one in based on the 870 frame.
I like this kind of weird stuff. The good part is that the transfer tax is only $5.00 compared with $200 for a supressor, machinegun or short barrel rifle.

[BD]

I bought the combo for $295 yesterday. Dicks had a combo for $249 with a scope, but it was the rifled slug barrel with a cantilever scope mount. The stock also had two interchangable options for cheek rests. I looked at it, but the rifled barrel, cheap scope and funny looking cheek pieces just weren't me. And I'd rather spend my $$ at a gun shop than Dicks. Now I need to do something better for sights. Anyone seen a "scout" type mount for a mossberg that rides the barrel? It'll be something like that, or a ghost ring set.
Your right about comparing the 870 or the M500 to my M12. They're not in the same league at all. This mossberg feels like five miles of dirt road came free with the action. I'll pull it apart this weekend and see if a little "fluff and buff" will slick things up a bit.
BD

[mike in co]

mossberg makes gost ring sights for these....

[Old Ironsights]

BD: I don't think you will ever make a standard 500 into a good bird gun.

They are great Combat Shotguns, Decent Deer/Slug Guns, and OK inline Muzzleloaders.

IMO they just don't and won't have good enough ergonomics &/or smoothness to be good wing guns... That's why I have a 16ga double.

OTOH... I have been known to do runs of 75 on the skeet range with my 500... much to the chagrin of the $$$$ double guys... so, go figure.

[Old Ironsights]

...These are wonderfully fun to shoot. Totally useless for anything except a gunfight in a phone booth. But the cool factor gets them at the range every time!
It shoots 3" 20 ga. I passed on the 12 ga. The 20 ga. hurts enough with 3" magnums. He also makes one in based on the 870 frame....

Interestng. Dlask in Canada makes these too...

Does the barrel/magtube come off like a standard Mossy?

If so, it would be mondo cool to pay the $5+Rectal Exam to get one then pick up a standard set of tubes to go with it...

[BD]

Well I graded off some of the dirt road with a fine file while watching a movie this evening. There's definitely no handwork involved in putting one of these together at the factory. It's a bunch of stamped out flat stock parts and castings all rubbing together inside a pretty nicely done aluminum receiver. I think a little 400 then 600 grit on a piece of glass will remove the rest of the "grit". The bolt slide is just a rough casting, no machining at all, and it slides or rides on just about everything in the action.

Anybody ever pull the bolt assembly apart? The book say's not to touch it but the bolt and lug are just as rough as the bolt slide.

While looking for the factory ghost rings I noticed that Brownells sells an 20" barrel/8 shot mag tube kit for $149. Instant combat gun. Does the mag tube just screw out? Maybe I should move this to "gunsmithing"

BD

[FISH4BUGS]

Interestng. Dlask in Canada makes these too...

Does the barrel/magtube come off like a standard Mossy?

If so, it would be mondo cool to pay the $5+Rectal Exam to get one then pick up a standard set of tubes to go with it...

I don't know yet. Serbu sends his Super Shorty with no box or user manual. I don't KNOW how to take it apart yet. I bought it a few months ago then fired about 30 rounds through it then put it away. I haven't cleaned it yet!

[35remington]

FISH4BUGS, your "6 inch barreled 3 shot Mossberg 500 Pump" looks an awful lot like a shortened 870.

Haven't ever seen a Mossberg with that shape receiver.

Perhaps you got the wrong photo from Serbu's web site?

[Tom W.]

I've used my 1100 for so many years, that when I won an 870 Express I forgot to cycle it....

[Johnch]

FISH4BUGS, your "6 inch barreled 3 shot Mossberg 500 Pump" looks an awful lot like a shortened 870.

Haven't ever seen a Mossberg with that shape receiver.

Perhaps you got the wrong photo from Serbu's web site?


IMO you are right

As I am 99.99% sure that is a 870 in the pic


John

[FISH4BUGS]

FISH4BUGS, your "6 inch barreled 3 shot Mossberg 500 Pump" looks an awful lot like a shortened 870.

Haven't ever seen a Mossberg with that shape receiver.

Perhaps you got the wrong photo from Serbu's web site?

I just yanked the photo off the web site because I don't have a digital camera to do closeups....I guess it IS an 870.
Check out the site anyway - www.serbu.com. Under the legacy website there is a photo of the Mossberg....but you can get the idea anyway from the 870.

[76 WARLOCK]

For a cheap shoot gun I bought a China made 1897 copy, it really has become my favorite shotgun. I bought it for cowboy action, but now I use it for everything. I guess it is because in 1964 65 we used them in the CO guard.

[bigdog454]

Saying that a rifled slug barrel won't shoot Fostner (rifled) slugs, in my opinion is an old wives tale propagated by sabot slug makers! I've shot a number of rifled slug guns that will shoot the old style of slugs much more accurately then the sabots. I've shot some rifled barrel slug guns with sabots that couldn't keep 3 shots on a standard 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper from 35 yards, yet those same guns will consistantly shoot one ragged hole at that distance with the regular old rifled slug, and keep them all on target at 75 yards.

[Crash_Corrigan]

One more vote for the Mossy. I bought a combo 12 Model 500 in 1986 in Vermont. It came with a 28" ventilated rib bird barrell, a 20" self/home defense barrell, a pistol grip and a regular wood stock.

I love the 20" open cylinder barrell. I have shot trap with it with good success and it handles and shoots well. I tried the pistol grip and I was all I could handle w/ 2 3/4 " rounds. With 3" magnums it was no longer any fun. I still have the pistol grip somewhere but I do not use it.

I picked up a .50 Cal Muzzleloader barrell for this Mossy and it is a load of fun to shoot. I cast my own boolits for it but since I have no soft lead the ww's alloy leaves something to be desired in the accuracy department. But it is still fun to shoot blackpowder although messy.

So with the Mossy you have an excellent home defense weapon, decent slug gun for deer, good bird gun and a fun blackpowder rifle.

Mine cost about $200 in '86 in Vermont and I picked up the muzzleloader barrell on Auction Arms for $50. An excellent all around weapon that with decent maintenance will last for generations.