PDA

View Full Version : Primers seated below flush



Junior1942
11-25-2005, 04:29 PM
I used a depth micrometer and measured how much the primers are seated below flush on my surplus Turk 8x57 mm ammo. No wonder they misfire. Most of the primers are .015" to .020" below the case head. Very few, 16 of 50 tested, measured between .010" and .015". A total of 34 of 50 measured .016" to .020". I checked some of my reloads, and they are all about .005" below the case head. I'm glad I didn't order 900 of these almost worthless surplus rounds--but I did order 450.

These came from J & G Sales with my Turk 38. I'll pull the bullets and use the bullets and Turk powder in a Boxer, non-corrosive primed case.

KCSO
11-25-2005, 06:26 PM
Since the specs for the Turk call for firing pin protrusion between 42 and 47 thou. they should still go off. You might want to check your firing pin spring with a tester as some of the turks are pretty weak. Most of the surplus turk stuff I have had was loaded pretty hot, i was surprised as they shot this ammo in 88's too.

Junior1942
11-25-2005, 08:58 PM
After some work with a file, my Turk's firing pin protrusion measures .045". About 9 in 10 of the surplus rounds do fire. The spring is plenty strong. Some of these surplus rounds are pretty hot. I got two leaky primers out of maybe 25 rounds.

waksupi
11-25-2005, 09:32 PM
Junior, do you know that some of the milsurp 8 mm stuff was made for machine guns? Pretty hot stuff. Hopefully, someone here can give the low-down on the package markings, but I know they have been pretty common on the market the last few years, and the vendors don't often specify what they are. They may be stretching the safe limits of a bolt action. This could be causing the pierced primers, and possibly the ignition problems, as I believe they also had a harder primer.

Junior1942
11-26-2005, 08:12 AM
Good point, waksupi. However, I'm getting leaky primers, not pierced primers. But leaky primers are a sure sign of high pressure. I have decided to pull the bullets on all the remaining Turk ammo. I'll use the bullets, with trimmed noses, and I'll reload them with the Turk powder in R-P cases with CCI primers.

Four Fingers of Death
11-26-2005, 10:28 PM
Sounds good. Its a bit of a worry using surplus mil ammo and seem the smoke curl up from the action and bolt area. I have some Malaysian F4/7.62 ammo which was given to me. Boy it kicks like all get out. The 98 Israeli Mauser seems to handle it ok. It is Berdan primed so its not worth messing with. I might sell it at the range and use the bucks to buy something else.

Junior1942
11-27-2005, 09:33 AM
Mick, the photo below is some of my surplus Turk ammo after hitting my cut-off tool. They're chopped off into the lead core for hunting. They weigh ~189 grs instead of ~199 grs. These rounds came in the door at ~12 cents each. The cheapest jacketed bullet I could find was Remington 185 at ~14 cents each + shipping. The cheapest cast was ~9 cents each + shipping. I'll pull these bullets and reload them using the Turk powder and CCI primers. So figuring ~4 cents for the new primer and 0 for the new R-P case and 12 cents for the Turk bullet and powder, the cost including shipping per round will be ~16 cents each.

Plus, the reloaded rounds won't be high pressure.

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3811.jpg

Bret4207
11-27-2005, 10:19 AM
Junior- A word of warning on using cut off FMJ for "hunting". Section one of the bullets length-wise and check the jacket thickness. You may find a real thick jacket in which case you have no real hope of consistant expansion. If they shoot real well they may be OK for coyote, etc. But unless you're really hurting for $$$ I wouldn't try them on deer. They often act like a solid. If you do use them, try for a shoulder shot and break the animal down right there.

slughammer
11-27-2005, 10:57 AM
With the noses cut off, is there the risk of blowing the core out of the jacket? Is the base exposed?

Junior1942
11-27-2005, 11:04 AM
Trooper, we'll know for sure after I use one on a deer or hog, but I'm thinking the big meplat will make up for a lack of full expansion. But I think they'll expand ok even with a thick jacket because there's a wide area of very soft lead exposed on the meplat.

Junior1942
11-27-2005, 01:21 PM
Slughammer, yep the base is exposed, but I don't see a problem with blowing the lead core out of the jacket. If it happened, it would be midway through a deer and cause even more internal damage.

Here's a photo of me and the Turk. "Two old soldiers," I call it. The new chopped barrel length will be about even with the hem of my shirt. (That's a turnip patch on the right.)

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3812.jpg

StarMetal
11-27-2005, 01:33 PM
Junior,

He meant blowing the core out of the jacket while it's still in the barrel. That's a real possibility especially since that military core isn't bonded to the jacket. There's alot of friction on a jacket while in the barrel and the core could get blowed out. In fact do me and you a favor when you shoot those please check the barrel to make sure one isn't stuck in there, especiall if you get a funny looking hole in the target.

Joe

Junior1942
11-27-2005, 01:52 PM
Damn! I see!

floodgate
11-27-2005, 08:34 PM
Junior:

Yeah, the NRA has warned about this repeatedly over the years. NOT a good idea!

floodgate

Four Fingers of Death
11-28-2005, 06:43 AM
Junior:

Yeah, the NRA has warned about this repeatedly over the years. NOT a good idea!

floodgate

I have been told that this was a problem only with the old 303Brit ammo and it was in three parts. I have used several cases of 308 ammo on roos and goats without problem over the years and Bob Penfold who had a big safarii business here, used to supply these for customers to blast roos, pigs, donkeys, etc for years without problem. I have seen all sorts of bullet modifiers, but the almost universal one in Australia is the bench grinder,a little dab'll do ya! a quick touch and the point is gone.

A mate of mine was a helicopter shooter for the parks and wildlife services some years ago, He used aussie mil ammo as supplied and his bosses wern't interested in spending more for hunting ammo. He was concerned that it was not humane and also that the aimals were getting up and he was wasting ammo shooting them again. He started grinding the tips off about three months after he started the job. He said he wore out three SLRs (Aussie made FN-FALs), two of which were rebarreled during use. He told me this in the gunshop in syndey after it come up in a conversation.

As far as pressure goes, what happens when we use lighter bullets? They burn more powder, so if you lighten it it should lower the pressure. I'd pull some of those modified bullets and whack em around, maybe even grind one half way through to see if they are still bonded strongly. If you are satisfied, I'd then proceed.

Hundreds of thousands of dead aussie animals can't be wrong!