Montana Elk hunters I need some info.

[WildmanJack]

i have a buddy that's planning an Elk hunt in Montana in a few weeks. He wants to know the best round for his 300 Weatherby Magnum. Right now he's thinking a 165 gr. Nosler Ballistic point. What do you guys suggest???
Jack :confused:

[S.R.Custom]

That'll be more than sufficient. ;)

[WildmanJack]

He said he would be shooting at the furthest about 200 yds. And thought that he should have a heavier bullet. I told him that the sound of that 300 weatherby Magnum would probably scare the Elk to death and he needn't worry about how big the bullet is!
Jack

[Down South]

The 300 Weatherby is my Elk Gun and I’m a big fan of Ballistic Tips. 165 to 180 Gr range should be just fine.

[WildmanJack]

Thanks guys, I'll tell him he's right on target.. Sure appreciate the quick responses..
Jack
:drinks:

[S.R.Custom]

He said he would be shooting at the furthest about 200 yds. And thought that he should have a heavier bullet.

My favorite elk round is a 7mm Mag loaded with a 160 gr. Sierra Sptizer boattail. I've yet to have an elk take more than a step or two after being hit with one.

You're probably right about the noise, tho. Tell him to make his first shot count, lol... :-D

[waksupi]

If the rifle will handle the 180 gr. bullets well, I would suggest these, for better penetration at less than ideal angles.

[montana_charlie]

My favorite elk round is a 7mm Mag loaded with a 160 gr. Sierra Sptizer boattail.
That's my choice, too, except I use the 160 grain Nosler Partition.
Rifle is the Browning Model 78 falling block, so the first shot has to count.
CM

[Trailblazer]

A friend of mine used a 300 Weatherby on elk and long range deer too. He swore by 180 Hornady's at 3200. He always said, "They don't walk away from a Hornaday!"

[Gussy]

I use a 7mm Browning BBR with Nosler 160 partition also. Haven't ever lost an elk. Max travel after hit (in lungs) 75'

[.45Cole]

we always use partitions, and my brother's .300 wbty shoots them very well, (180gr, cci mag, 70.0? IMR4831 (orange can) sorry its vague, not at bench. If the elk in Mt act like the ones here in Colo then he shouldn't have a prob. I hate the bullets that open up early w/ a fast bullet like that because it makes cleaning a very dirty job

[S.R.Custom]

we always use partitions, and my brother's .300 wbty shoots them very well, (cci mag, 70.0? IMR4198?(orange can)

Don't quote loading data from a vague memory. 70.0 grs of 4198 behind just about any bullet in a 300 would probably blow your head off.

[Trailblazer]

Orange can is probably IMR 4831.

[.45Cole]

That's it, have had two cans laying around forever and forgot what sequence it was. Load is modified from speer manual @ 70grns

[S.R.Custom]

Much better... :-D

[waksupi]

we always use partitions, and my brother's .300 wbty shoots them very well, (cci mag, 70.0? IMR4198?(orange can) sorry its vague, not at bench. If the elk in Mt act like the ones here in Colo then he shouldn't have a prob. I hate the bullets that open up early w/ a fast bullet like that because it makes cleaning a very dirty job


That's why if using a jacketed bullet, I always preferred a heavier bullet. Then they perform more like a cast bullet, with a very similar wound channel.

[TCLouis]

.45Cole

Any chance you can/will go back and edit OUT the reference to 4198 in that post. Might save somebody later down the road after we forget all about this thread?

[spurrit]

Well, considering people have been killing elk with pointy stick for some time, just about any bullet will work, if placed right. If your buddy's too cheap to practice with his chosen brand of ammo, encourage him to buy the cheaper stuff to hunt and practice with. It works just about as well, and he'll damn well know where he's hitting with it, once he puts a few boxes of ammo downrange. Missing with expensive ammo is still missing. Spending $2 per shot to make holes in a mountain looks pretty stupid.

When I was working for outfitters, hunter success(on a $5-10,000 hunt) was most often thwarted by guys that were using too much gun, and were afraid of it(BAD flinching!) and guys that insisted on hunting with the super premium ammo that cost them way too much. Rhat, and being so out of shape they needed oxygen every 50 ft.. They think their super duper ammo is too expensive to practice with, so they show up with a rifle and load combo they can't hit with. By "saving money", not shooting up their high dollar ammo, they piss away enough money to buy a decent car that's only a coupla years old! Not to mention having to explain to their wife why they spent all that money, and came home with no meat.(and the wives WILL drag the subject out often, loudly, and in public!)

[.45Cole]

spurrit-well said. Tried to talk my brother into something smaller. Sold most larger cal rifles for a 7mm08 (anybody have any good loads w/ 150gr bullets) to use everywhere, as varmiting w/ a hunting rifle is great target practice.

[carpetman]

Spurrit you been there done that and your experience matches my observations. 30-06 is plenty and many disagree but I think the 150 grainer is the pick of the litter. Many that disagree saying too light a bullet are using the 130 in a .270---go figure.

[HABCAN]

If your shot cannot be placed with surgical precision at ranges you expect to hunt, you are using 'too much gun' for your capabilities. A hunter owes it to the game to ensure a quick kill. Practise and exercise with the chosen hunting rifle/ammo all summer: when the season finally rolls around you won't embarrass yourself or your long-suffering guide/outfitter. But we here all know that already, don't we? Sorry to preach.

[WildmanJack]

Well Guys, he's one of those people that will buy a box of ammo and go to the rangeONCE, then sight that ammo in and go hunt whatever he wants. He's got more moneythan he knows what to do with and could well afford the ammo buthe is, how shall I put this.... rather frugal with it!! So all I can do is tell him what you all have said and see what he does.. Thanks a million for all the input..
Jack
Here's to y'all :drinks::drinks::drinks:

[spurrit]

I can't stand those guys. They smoke Cohibas and drink Dranbuie(tastes like drain-o), but they're too cheap to practice!

[WildmanJack]

I totally agree, I shoot about 200 rounds a week. I'd shoot more if I could afford it, just so I can shoot some Cowboy Action once or twice a month. Last month he went out to Montana to check his property on horseback. He said he was taking his 1911 in case he ran into a bear. I looked at him and said, maybe you should take your .357 or buy yourself a .44 mag so you can feel safe. He told me, Naw I have 8 plus 2 "clips" ( mags) and that should put down anything I run into... Man I want some of what he's smokin!!!!

Jack

[spurrit]

Did you explain the difference between grizzlies and black bears?

[waksupi]

Did you explain the difference between grizzlies and black bears?

You mean the part about the griz poop smelling of pepper, and having bells in it?

[flintlocknfur]

In Missoula the poo smells like patchouli oil, and we look for the shiny piercings, and the Obama buttons... can't forget the Damm Obama buttons!

We've had Griz break in the house twice, the garage once and tapped 8 off the front lawn. My 80 yr old Dad got charged last spring in the yard, spoked it off with a LOUD ported 44 and some really big cast Boolits. Game warden was poed he didnt shoot it....

[montana_charlie]

He said he was taking his 1911 in case he ran into a bear. I looked at him and said, maybe you should take your .357 or buy yourself a .44 mag so you can feel safe.
I have a standard come-back when some guy starts talking about 'bear pistols'.
I say, no matter which size you pick, file off the front sight. That's so it doesn't hurt so bad when the bear shoves that shooter up your @ss.

About those too-wealthy out-of-state elk hunters...
My wife and I came up to Montana in 1971 (or '72) to visit friends of hers. For me, it was a look-see to evaluate the place as a possible retirement location.

During the week we were in the state, there was a news item being carried on the radio. It seems an out-of-state hunter searching the woods for elk had managed to shoot a young girl...wearing a red winter coat...while waiting at the stop for her school bus.

As the days went by, more details came out about the incident. At one point the guy was asked if he had ever seen an elk. His reply was that he had intended to visit the San Diego zoo to see one...but just never found the time while making preparations for his hunting trip.
CM

[MT Gianni]

A neighbors daughter shot a large 6 pt bull and a 27" mule deer 2 years ago. She was 12 and her weapon of choice was a 22-250. I wouldn't recommend it but these animals are not indestructible. Gianni

[MTWeatherman]

Well...guess I'll be odd man out and vote against the ballistic tips.

I've used them on elk...took 6 or 7 with them. They are an excellent long range bullet and I'd say if you expect to do mainy long range shooting...over 200 yards not under...it well could be the bullet of choice. I'd use nothing less than a 180...thats what I used in my .300 Winchester.

However, because they are designed for long range work, my impression is that they are constructed a bit light for close range work on a heavy animal. Before switching to the ballistic tips, I used 180 gr. Hornady spire points for many years. Hated how the tips got smashed in the magazine under recoil and felt that it had to affect the B.C. and thus the long range impact. Whereas on a broadside shot, the Hornady would invariably punch through a large elk no matter the range... under 200 yards or so the ballistic tips would tend to come apart and never punch through. Lots of tissue destruction, but suspect a shoulder hit from a .300 Weatherby at 100 yards would disintegrate the bullet...even a 180.

I never lost an elk with a ballistic tip. However, all were chest, and broadside lung and heart shots. However, I've since switched to the Nosler partitions for use on elk...Penetration is guaranteed. I still use the ballistic tips if I'm hunting deer or antelope in open country.

My advice...180 gr. Nosler partitions. If he doesn't want to invest in a premium bullet...180 gr Hornady Spire. Forget the ballistic tips for the under 200 yard work....no advantage to them whatsoever at that range, and potentially a big disadvantage.

[krag35]

I'm not from Montana, but have taken a few Elk, so maybe I do have an opinion. Ballistic tip bullets, not my first , second , third or even tenth choice. With a perfect shot, they will kill Elk successfully, but plan on cutting lots of blood jello out of the carcass. If hes thinking he needs a premium bullet, the Nosler partitions work pretty good, personally in jacketed bullets, I shoot Hornaday spire points and they do pretty well.

[45nut]

or he could skip the small bore altogether and use a real cb round like the 45-70 :)

[S.R.Custom]

... the guy was asked if he had ever seen an elk. His reply was that he had intended to visit the San Diego zoo to see one...but just never found the time while making preparations for his hunting trip.
CM

On a lighter note... About 3 years ago a group of hunters from California was here deer hunting. One morning they all came into the coffee shop here in town, absolutely tickled to death with themselves because one of their group shot what had to be the "...biggest buck in the world. Come see! We have it in the truck right now!"

I wasn't in the coffee shop at the time, but I know the Fish and Game officer who was (heh), and he swears to God it's a true story...

[carpetman]

Super Mag--did you leave out part of the story?

[S.R.Custom]

You mean the part where the hunter had to post bail, go to court, get fined, and lose his hunting priveleges for three years because he shot a trophy bull elk out of season? I figured that went without saying, lol... :-D

[spurrit]

It did. For some, at least. Hell, it coulda been a moose, antelope, longhorn heifer, jackalope sitting on a shelf in a bar.......

[montana_charlie]

I have a hunting story that is just the opposite...

My buddy and I were hunting the Beartooth Game Range back in (about) 1979.
We were climbing toward a wooded mountaintop overlooking Mann Gulch, that we thought might have some elk in it.
On the way, we caught up with a hunter who was taking a breather. He never said where he hailed from, but when he spoke, Dixie rolled out.

As we approached, I said my customary 'Howdy', expecting to hear a reply...and continue on up the mountain. But, this ol' boy wanted to talk...

With no preamble, he launched into his first question, "How do y'all hunt this kind of country? Do you just git up high someplace, and look around? This up and down is like to kill me and my partner."

I said that getting up high and glassing was one of the methods people used, but I didn't go into detail because we had ground to cover...and I was a little out of breath, myself.

But, since he kept on talking, the only polite thing to do was to stop and listen.
He went on to say that 'back home', still huntin' in the woods was just fine, but a man didn't have to kill himself to get to the woods.
Continuing, he said he was told that the elk population was so thick, it averaged out to an elk per acre...and he was just wondering how to pick the right acre to hunt them in.

So, I took out my map of the game range, and showed him a 'bowl' that was fairly easy to reach the rim of. I explained how to get there, and said that sitting on the rim and staying quiet would stand a fair chance of providing a shot an an elk.
Then, Marty and I moved on.

Well we hunted our way to the edge of the game range and circled back to a steep canyon that cuts into the Gates of the Mountains Wilderness, reaching that point some hours later. We moved along the rim, and paused frequently to view the opposing slope. During one of the stops, I spied several mulie does grazing about thirty yards above a game trail that crossed the hillside. While watching them, they suddenly alerted.

While they (and I) watched the trail, our southern hunter slowly appeared, coming around the mountain. He was using the classic 'whitetail style' of take three steps and stand still for several minutes while looking at everything that came into view. His progress was so slow, those does didn't spook away.

After five or six 'movements' he came around far enough to be directly below the mulies, and saw them at the end of his slow scan of 'new visions'. You could almost feel the jerk when his muscles tensed...but he didn't fly off the handle. He brought his rifle up real slow, and sighted on each animal through his scope. Seeing no horns, he relaxed and dropped his rifle to waist level. That quicker movement was enough for the does, and they did that mulie jump as they disappeared up the mountainside.

A couple hours later, it started to rain. We had to cover a couple of miles to get back to where the truck was parked, and we met others coming in as we neared the parking area.
One of those was our friend from Dixie.
He asked if we had any luck, and I said 'not much to see, today'.

His comeback was, "Well, we didn't git nothin' either, but I seen game! Weren't no bull horns, but them cows are big enough to brag about."

I said that must have been when he was working a trail around that (pointing) mountain over there. He said that was true, but wanted to know how I knew.
I said we watched him come around the hillside, and described how he checked out the mulies when he saw them.

He got real amazed and asked, "You mean to tell me them were MULE DEER DOES??? Gawd, I'd hate to see uh ELK!"

[S.R.Custom]

...I figured that went without saying, lol... :-D


It did. For some, at least.

Indeed...
Perhaps I should've been clearer for those in the " 'Splain It To Me State"... http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/images/smilies/HistericalSmiley.gif

[.45Cole]

Just a pitch in of the stories of out-of-place-hunters, This last season in our norm spot in the NW part of the San Juans(~10,500ft) (where a hunter almost always comes from out of state and has a heart attack) there was a little (maybe 2') of unexpected snow, wind, and cold temps (like giving up hunting for half the day cold). Anyways, while driving to and from hunting spots we saw where people had pulled their dome tents/"camping tents" to get off the mountain. Can't be up there w/o a wall tent and a STOVE. But the cut wood they left behind burned mighty warm.