45 colt cast bullet help

[tckurt]

hi everyone long time reader but first post.
ok the more i read the more i get confused on cast bullets.
and looking for some help.

looking for your help on 45 colt cast bullets for general and hunting deer.
firearm is a 21" t/c encore 45 colt .
it shoots hornady 250 xtp and sierra 240's pretty good at 100 yds.

i would like to try some lead 300 grain or so bullets.i tried a few Missouri cast
325 slammers poly coat and they shoot more like a shotgun i give up on them.
i have no casting stuff so i will be buying the bullets.

any pointers on what i should try?
are 2 lube groove bullets better than one for more velocity?
is it true that 20 or harder you don't need gas check for 1500 velocity?
thank you kurt

[JimB..]

I don’t have a 300gr option to suggest, but if you just want cast I have found that the Oregon Trail 250gr shoot well.

[bangerjim]

I shoot 300gn Lee’s out of my 45 long guns with excellent accuracy. PC’d all the way.

Most accurate long gun I have! And my wife LOVES that 300gn slug. Wnatever you hit is totally devastated. ( we kill only paper targets with thick cardboard backing and pastic water bottles!).

You should not be afraid to buy a Lee 300gn mold and try it. Their Al molds are dirt cheap. I load mainly ETR7 powder for all straight wall carts.

No GC’s needed. LG or NLG.....makes abdolutely NO difference when PC’ing I have found from many thousands of different styles I have tried.

Good luck on your future casting!

[Outpost75]

In the Ruger or T/C Contender you can use a long-nosed bullet to exploit the longer cylinder length or to reduce bullet jump and increase powder capacity. For this purpose I had Tom Ellis at Accurate cut the 45-290H, which is my go-to heavy load hunting bullet for either rifle or revolver. Also works in the .455 Colt/Eley with black powder! In the Marlin 1894 Cowboy or Ruger Vaquero load a compressed case full of IMR or H4227 so that you are compressing the powder about 1/8" as the bullet is seated. I use 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals. Stone Killer.

216905

[jcren]

Don't sell the Lee 250 rf short. This bullet shoots superbly in friends Rossi carbine and judge. Haven't killed anything with his guns, but I run the 200 rf that is identical except length (I cast and load both) in a Hi Point 45acp and have killed 2 hogs with authority at only 1100 fps. That old rf thumps.

[CastingFool]

I used the Lee 452 250 rf to take my 1st cast boolit deer. Didn't get a pass through, but the deer only traveled maybe 40 yds.

[MT Gianni]

Is it a dedicated 45 chamber or a 45/410?. The extra nose length of the 410 might cause problems.

[rond]

I've had good results with the MBC 250 rnfp cowboy. Maybe the twist is to slow for the heavier boolit.

[tckurt]

I tried casting some 38's years ago with little luck.
i would rather just buy them and thanks for all the info.

no it is not a 45/410 it is a new mgm 45 colt barrel 1/16 twist .

also forgot to mention the powders i have are.
hodgdon hp38, alliant blue dot,accurate #5,#7,#9,win 296

[hc18flyer]

I am considering the same issue for my Nm Blackhawk. For a while I was stuck on a 300 grain bullet, after some shooting and a bunch of reading, I don't think it's necessary. A 250ish grain large meplat bullet at 1200 fps is plenty for our Nebraska corn fed Whitetails. I did sign up for the Mihec 45-275 Lfn GB, with a gas check. A gc so I can run a softer 9-10 bhn bullet. I will be filling this thread. Plan to tag a deer this fall. hc18flyer

[hc18flyer]

There was a recent thread similar to this, an LBT lfn bullet at 12bhn that was available for purchase. I can't remember the name of the company? I wanted to go softer yet.

[tckurt]

the 255 lrnfp from sns casting shoot better than the Missouri bullets
325 slammers they just go all over at 100 yds.both are poly or red coated.
will lead get me more accurate i was told these are slippery and need a
heavy crimp and are not accurate like bare lead,than others say they love coated
bullets.yes at 25 yds they all shoot great butt at 100 it is a new game .like i said the
more i read the more confused i get.i may just buy speer bullets sp4485
12 bucks per 50 to try and they are 300 grain,beartooth bullets are asking 30-33 bucks a hundred

[jcren]

Pc or lead won't make a significant difference in a 45 carbine @ 100 yards. I think, based on my experiences with the 45 acp carbine, that you are running into one of two problems. Either the heavy bullet is simply too long to stabilize at a given speed out to 100 yards, or your muzzle velocity is barely supersonic ( like 1300 or less) and the bullet is getting pummeled by trans sonic buffering about 70 yards out. Short, fat, flat nosed bullets don't do well trans sonic apparently. I'm my 45 acp carbine, I found that I either have to keep it around 1100 at the muzzle or kick it above 1300, preferably 1400. My 1250 ish loads would shoot lights out at 40 yards, decent at 60, but at 100 I was seeing 6-8 inch groups!

[tckurt]

Pc or lead won't make a significant difference in a 45 carbine @ 100 yards. I think, based on my experiences with the 45 acp carbine, that you are running into one of two problems. Either the heavy bullet is simply too long to stabilize at a given speed out to 100 yards, or your muzzle velocity is barely supersonic ( like 1300 or less) and the bullet is getting pummeled by trans sonic buffering about 70 yards out. Short, fat, flat nosed bullets don't do well trans sonic apparently. I'm my 45 acp carbine, I found that I either have to keep it around 1100 at the muzzle or kick it above 1300, preferably 1400. My 1250 ish loads would shoot lights out at 40 yards, decent at 60, but at 100 I was seeing 6-8 inch groups!

thanks i will try that on my 255's i am at 1150 fps and i think 325 was tested up to 1300 fps

[Harter66]

I have a 1-32" twist and the 1050 fps load for the 7.5 Ruger went everywhere on a 30° line of departure between 78-82 yd . The solution was to slow the load down from 1270 to 1050 . It is my belief the the trans sonic can be beat with the 16" twist and a 1325-1350 MV . I had the same results with a 454424 and the 452-255 RF .

My next step was to play in the weeds . Is your TC a rifle ?
I used a fast rifle powder in the Colts case with a 350 gr Mountain Moulds custom RNFP intending to get it to the target with 45 ACP pressures and subsonic .......not the desired effect in this case . The start load reduction from Quick Load did get me round holes at 50 yd and it did leave mummies suggesting that it was still under my pressure limit . A 350 at nearly 1300 fps is a thrill in a 16" 6# lever gun . Back on the greens +P Colts did the job but it convinced me that I needed either a 16" twist or a 45-70 .

Under 35kpsi I've never used a gas check .
I think I would try the faster powders with the bullet you have and hit them with a full load . The give it a full boot to make it slug up method if you will . As an alternative you might also try a heavy paste board wad card of about 50 cal and the slower powders also at full loads .

[Tackleberry41]

325 is probably to long. I had good results w the Lee 300gr. Worked good in a single shot Rossi i did a barrel stub w. But an out of the box Lee 300gr mold did not work, it had to be leemented to size where they were of any use. Found the NOE 250gr kills things just as good.

[tckurt]

I have a 1-32" twist and the 1050 fps load for the 7.5 Ruger went everywhere on a 30° line of departure between 78-82 yd . The solution was to slow the load down from 1270 to 1050 . It is my belief the the trans sonic can be beat with the 16" twist and a 1325-1350 MV . I had the same results with a 454424 and the 452-255 RF .

My next step was to play in the weeds . Is your TC a rifle ?
I used a fast rifle powder in the Colts case with a 350 gr Mountain Moulds custom RNFP intending to get it to the target with 45 ACP pressures and subsonic .......not the desired effect in this case . The start load reduction from Quick Load did get me round holes at 50 yd and it did leave mummies suggesting that it was still under my pressure limit . A 350 at nearly 1300 fps is a thrill in a 16" 6# lever gun . Back on the greens +P Colts did the job but it convinced me that I needed either a 16" twist or a 45-70 .

Under 35kpsi I've never used a gas check .
I think I would try the faster powders with the bullet you have and hit them with a full load . The give it a full boot to make it slug up method if you will . As an alternative you might also try a heavy paste board wad card of about 50 cal and the slower powders also at full loads .

yes it is a 21" encore 45 colt 1/16 twist brand new from mgm barrels

[Harter66]

325 is probably to long. I had good results w the Lee 300gr. Worked good in a single shot Rossi i did a barrel stub w. But an out of the box Lee 300gr mold did not work, it had to be leemented to size where they were of any use. Found the NOE 250gr kills things just as good.

A fellow here a few years ago did a test with an adjustable 45 cal mould and a 16" twist and it seems like he reflected that the mould went out to like 1200 gr and it stopped being even remedially fun but still making round holes up around 850 gr .

I have a 16" 95' Mauser in 45 Raptor in a 16" twist , 350s are no problem in it from Colts through WTH were you thinking .

[Larry Gibson]

You probably had a barrel twist problem of were pushing the 325s too fast for the bullet. Frankly I don't see the necessity (unless that's just what you want) for a 325 of even a 300 gr cast 45 caliber bullet for general or deer hunting. A 250 - 260 gr bullet will suffice nicely. I've even gone to 200 gr cast for my "general" shooting with my own 45 Colts in revolver and rifle. They do just fine out to 200+ yards.

For the rifle barrel I suggest you take a look a NOE's 454-255-45 Colt and the 454-265 WFN. Both are GC designs, have large meplats and if cast of 16-1 alloy will do very nicely up through 1600 fps +/-. That alloy will also give excellent penetration and expansion.

[tckurt]

You probably had a barrel twist problem of were pushing the 325s too fast for the bullet. Frankly I don't see the necessity (unless that's just what you want) for a 325 of even a 300 gr cast 45 caliber bullet for general or deer hunting. A 250 - 260 gr bullet will suffice nicely. I've even gone to 200 gr cast for my "general" shooting with my own 45 Colts in revolver and rifle. They do just fine out to 200+ yards.

For the rifle barrel I suggest you take a look a NOE's 454-255-45 Colt and the 454-265 WFN. Both are GC designs, have large meplats and if cast of 16-1 alloy will do very nicely up through 1600 fps +/-. That alloy will also give excellent penetration and expansion.

thanks larry

can you tell me at what velocity a 250 would have to run in the 45 colt to go in and exit a broadside shot on a deer at 100-150 yards thanks

[Harter66]

Not even close to Larry's experience . .....

At 1050 fps a 454424 (or the NOE Larry noted I have both) 452-255 RNFP will pass entirely through a hog at 135-165# from shoulder to off side ham and ribs to ribs from feet to 50 yd for sure . As I mentioned above my slow twist was a killer .

[Bigslug]

thanks larry

can you tell me at what velocity a 250 would have to run in the 45 colt to go in and exit a broadside shot on a deer at 100-150 yards thanks

I doubt the bullet will hardly notice the deer.

A couple of my own observations on this stuff:

Typical police duty hollowpoint will penetrate between a foot and 15" of bare gelatin. These same loads typically stop in three milk jugs. Maybe 4 on a REALLY good day.

My experiment with a hard alloy, .32" meplat .45 ACP at hardball speeds took nine jugs to stop.

My hybrid 32-20 130 grain WFN also took nine to stop from an impact speed of about 1250 fps in hard alloy. Same load with softer 20-1 took four, but gave a REALLY nice mushroom.

If I remember correctly, it took seven to stop a 265 grain .455 Webley MKII bullet (really soft metal, but conical nose) at 625 fps.

As I often say, the standard 250 grain .45 Colt at black powder speeds of @ 900-950 FPS was designed to kill HORSES; you don't need to lose sleep over its ability to kill deer.

[tckurt]

thanks Bigslug my 250's are at 1200 fps now so looks like i am good to go.

[Moonie]

I load 300gr Lee and 325gr NOE HP's for 45 Colt using 22gr H110/W296 in my NMBH and I've tried them in my new 460 S&W 20" Katahdin barrel. I also load the same NOE 325gr with 37gr H110 in the 460 S&W brass, it will get your attention lol. Feels like you are shooting my 375 Hurt&Hurt barrel.