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View Full Version : "Good Enough" Shop/Auto Hand Tools



Thundarstick
03-18-2018, 11:43 PM
What do you guys/gals, that don't make your living with them, use for tools? I have 2 small sets of SK I've had since a teenager and a bunch of mixed cheep stuff now, but I'm hankering to add to my collection. I like nice things, but it's been a long time since I have looked into high end tools, and I about choked at the prices! I'm thinking about evil bay, or Craigslist for used stuff! Talking small tractor and equipment, big lawnmower, brake jobs etc.

Dryball
03-18-2018, 11:59 PM
I, too, have a mixture of good and ****. I think it really depends on what your're doing with the tools...ie, hard or frequent use, I'd get the good or medium level stuff. I don't think I'd ever buy the really cheap junk...I've had sockets pop on me, screw drivers snap or bend at the sight of a tough screw. I'm of the camp...buy once cry once

rockrat
03-19-2018, 12:00 AM
Most of my stuff is Craftsman with only a few pieces of snap-on (and I mean few). I'm talking 10-50 year old Craftsman stuff

jmort
03-19-2018, 12:02 AM
Not critical if "good enough" is the measure
Harbor Freight would be fine for Joe six-pack

skeettx
03-19-2018, 12:09 AM
Mostly OLD craftsman in both inch and metric, some garage sale tools to grind on for a specific task.
1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 drives mostly in sockets with a few larger ones for big stuff.
Mike

starmac
03-19-2018, 12:20 AM
My opinion even Joe six pack doesn't like busted knuckles or worse, life is to cheap for junk cheap tools, and I would rather hire it done than use some of them. I am a tool junky I guess, and have thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tool, even under hard use most of them last a lifetime. It has been many years since I have bought off a snap on or mac truck, but I still pick up stuff, off of craigslist, garage sales, estate sales and auctions, for pennies on the dollar.

Omega
03-19-2018, 12:40 AM
I have a couple craftsman sets, before they were made in China, but I also have a few cheap tools. They're all made in China nowadays, and most have lifetime warranty so why pay more for tools I'll only use a few times?

starmac
03-19-2018, 01:58 AM
Well, the very first time I needed a metrich tool, was to change the starter on a mustang tool, so since I, at the time had no plans of needing metric tools much I bought a cheap set of auto store wrenches. The very first bolt I put a wrench on the box end busted and I had to deal with a busted up hand for a couple of months, not to mention I then had to go buy a decent set of wrenches and change the starter with a busted up hand. That one instant taught me if you are going to use it at all, it is better to have something that will get the job done safely, as far as I am concerned it should be against the law to sell some of the junk a guy can buy called tools.

I have several specialty tools that are not even available cheap, that I have bought with no intention of ever using again, if it can't be rented, sometimes you have no choice.

HangFireW8
03-19-2018, 02:14 AM
I buy best of breed and high value tools, not loyally/blindly/stupidly from one over-advertised, over-priced brand.

I buy primary OTC (a Bosch brand now) and Lisle for auto specialty tools, and I still have some older US made KD Tools.

My hardlines are, in order of quantity in my primary auto tool chest: SK, old US Craftsman, Allen (US Danaher era), BlackHawk, and a mix of older US brands (Bonney, S-O, New Britain, etc.), and a little bit of Taiwan stuff like Tekton. Gearwrench for ratcheting wrenches, but that's all for them. (I am less and less impressed with GW lately).

Blackhawk locking pliers are Taiwan made but SOO much better than even the older US-made Peterson Vice Grips. I don't bother with the new imported Irwin Vise Grips.

Bondhus for T handle Allen and Torx Keys, Vim for hex and other socket bits.

Aircat, Astro and IR for air tools. (My Astro Nano 3/8 is awesome!)

Primarily Sunex for 3/8 impact sockets, Kobalt/Williams (USA) for the rest. For 1/2 impact it's IR, Astro, and yes some HF and Stanley.

Pliers I was buying a lot of ChannelLock but lately it's been Knipex. Their PliersWrench is awesome, I use it everywhere.

On the electronics workbench I have a lot of Xuron US-made pliers and snips.

Nupla for US made deadblow hammers, but there's another good US brand I want to try (forget the name right now).

That's all I can think of for now.

starmac
03-19-2018, 02:52 AM
You can get some quality tools for some things. Harbor has one wrench set that cost less than forty bucks that will stay right with snap on or any other ones, only available in the extra long wrenches. I also have a few sets of their snubbies, not as good of quality, but they are too short to get enough torque on them to break them. The cheaper imported impact sockets will generally have one or two in a set that doesn't fit very well, but they are usable and hard to break, even with a good impact, they are thicker than good sockets, so in some applications can not even be used anyway. I still have a few sets I used to keep in trucks, I have since picked up enough good sets for good prices, that I have not carried them in a while.. The cheap 3/4 chrome sets actually stand up to an impact pretty well, they will break occasionally but not very often.

Petrol & Powder
03-19-2018, 08:45 AM
It depends on the application. For example, I have some really cheap screwdrivers but they are not used as screwdrivers, those are the ones that get ground down to fit specialty fasteners. I've also been known to modify a cheap socket or wrench as needed.

Other than that, cheap hand tools are not worth the savings. As Starmac said back in post #6, nobody likes busted knuckles or worse.

I've seen people spend more money buying three copies of a cheap tool when they could have spent the equivalent of the first two and had a tool that would last a lifetime. Not only does repeatedly purchasing cheap tools ultimately waste money, it can be frustrating and even dangerous.

Then you get into the situation when you need a tool in the middle of the night on Christmas Eve or 100 miles from someone else. The one you have needs to work!

OK, enough negative stuff, let's move to the positive.
You don't need to spend a fortune to get good tools, you just need to know what constitutes a good tool.
There are some excellent old tools out there and if you know what to look for they can be had for little money.

Garage sales, consignment shops, sometimes pawn shops (be careful here on pricing), craigslist, ESTATE SALES ! - can all be a good source of high quality tools.

Petrol & Powder
03-19-2018, 09:15 AM
And just to toss out some names;

Old Thorsen hand tools are pretty strong.
Old SK tools are good
Klein tools are good, particularly for electrical work
Some of the Blackhawk branded stuff is good.
Craftsman and Snap-On have good reputations.
A lot of the OLD American stuff was pretty good and the pricing generally came down to the quality of the steel used.

Almost every auto parts supplier sells some brand of hand tool. Some of those were cheap and some of those were very good. The quality often mirrored the customer base. If the store catered to consumers, the tools tended to be cheaper. If the store catered to professional mechanics, the quality was often much higher.

And there are some specialty tools out there like Vise-Grips, Crescent wrenches, Channel-Lock, Etc. Often those are now made by some other company that purchased the name but the quality is still there. It is ALWAYS better to buy a pair of Vice-Grips that has the Vise-Grip name stamped on it rather than a set of locking priers that "looks" like Vise Grips and only has "Taiwan" stamped on it.

lightman
03-19-2018, 09:22 AM
I buy quality stuff. When I was working there was no place in my line of work for a cheap tool. It does not have to be SnapOn to be good but they are. Good that is. Garage sales, flee markets and pawn shops are good places to look. Estate sales and such are too.

EMC45
03-19-2018, 09:30 AM
I have majority Craftsman, some SK, Some Proto. I used to get a lot of my stuff from pawn shops. Lifetime warranty is lifetime warranty.

Rick Hodges
03-19-2018, 09:31 AM
I inherited my fathers Craftsman tool box and socket sets, open end and box end wrenches that he purchased new in 1948. I have augmented them with a conglomeration of tools since.....including a full set of Harbor Freight "stuff" to hang on the peg board in the garage for friends and neighbors to borrow.

mold maker
03-19-2018, 09:54 AM
The good tools in my box are made to use. The cheap ones are to loan. Unlike the good stuff, the cheap ones always come home.

Thundarstick
03-19-2018, 10:22 AM
Growing up on a big farm, with" hot rodders" in the family as well, we had a huge variety of tools. Some very high quality like snap on and SK, but many more where craftsman and a lot of lesser brands that just had sizes stamped on them. We seemed to get along just fin be repairing tractors, farm equipment, and trucks. I've recently been using some spline drive kobalt tools that I'm very impressed with for the price, and how well they hold especially! The tools I intend to spend the most on are high end ratchets, they seem most likely to bust knuckles, but if you are using a ratchet that hard, shouldn't you use a breaker bar? BTW,Taiwan seems to be putting out some very good mid range tools now days. Lot of good things to think about in these comments though.

Tackleberry41
03-19-2018, 12:19 PM
I worked as a tech at a dealer, and broke more snap on tools than craftsman. Have 2 sets of the S&K socket/ratchet, 3/8 and 1/4 drive, never had an issue out of them. Snap on, you have to wait for the guy to come buy to replace anything, even harder if you do not work someplace they will come by. Place I worked the Mac and Matco guys went out of business so was months to get something replaced. Craftsman, sears is usually pretty easy to find. Snap on was better for those specialty sockets nobody else makes.

metricmonkeywrench
03-19-2018, 12:32 PM
As a non-pro snap on, matco, mac and so on were out of my reach. My toolbox is a collection of everything but the backbone is predomanatly craftsman. Before the sale to Stanley their quality fell off and the local store does not have a decent selection anymore. My go to anymore is cobalt out of lowes which is lifetime warranty and easily available.

jimlj
03-19-2018, 12:37 PM
Most tools now days are made in China. Some are of better quality than others, but made in China none the less.
I have quite a few Craftsman tools from the made in America days that are quite good. I have a few China Craftsman sockets and end wrenches that I don't think are any better than Harbor Freight tools. I have purchased a few Harbor tools thinking they were a one and done tool that have turned out to be surprising in quality. "Lifetime Warranty" tools doesn't mean your life time, as the company who stamps their name on them likely has changed hands, or quit making "that" tool. I bought a lifetime 1/4" socket set from Autozone to put in my junkyard scrounging tool box only to find they had discontinued that set when I broke the ratchet.
I think the 159 piece "Mechanics tool set" from anywhere is mostly junk, but if you pick and choose sockets and wrenches from the same store you can get good enough tools.

dverna
03-19-2018, 12:39 PM
If I was buying now, likely the Lowe's Kobalt brand. Back when I was growing up, I bought Craftsman as I could not justify the really high end stuff.

Working at a job that needs tools every day is different than needing tools once in a while.

country gent
03-19-2018, 12:53 PM
With tools it depends on what it is and how often it gets used. On tools that are used often I buy the best I can afford. On tools that may cause injury if they fail again the better. I've been tired of busting knuckles with cheap wrenches along time ago. On tools that get used only occasionally I may opt for a cheaper brand. A lot depends on how you're using it and how hard. If your buying a 1/2" socket and planning on a cheater pipe of any length being needed you better buy a good one. Same with other tools if you plan on using it up to its upper end limit. If your using a 1/2" ratchet for simple assembly of smaller bolts and are just using 1/2 the handle length or less then about any one will do.

Traffer
03-19-2018, 01:01 PM
The only cheap tools I have ever had any trouble with were Harbor Freight torque wrenches. When new the darn things would not do the slip click thing... leading to massive overtightening. To make it worse, it lead to overtightening some front end bolts on my car when replacing ball joint ends, swing arms, strut towers, tie rod ends and the works. Grrrrrr. For the first year of the rebuild I was waiting for overstressed bolts to let go. But so far all is well. I did take the wrenches apart and rebuild them, now they work without fail. I can't recall what exactly I found was causing the problem but I am confident that I got them working properly now.
I always buy the very cheapest stuff, now before the hate mail starts coming, I fix my own car because I cannot afford to take it to the shop. So I also cannot afford to buy the better tools. It's about necessity for me not preference. I shop eBay a lot also. My machining tools are from there. Can't beat the prices, especially if you shop right. I recently got a bunch of large dies and die handles for probably less than scrap price. I think there were about 25 dies ranging from 3/8" to about 1" and two die handles that were in the 26" long range. I think I paid about $15 delivered for the stuff (very old stuff but still in great shape). Just a couple of days ago I got some Bahko orange hack saw blades. These are top of the line blades. Now there is a great difference between these and the cheapo's. I paid 10 cents per blade for the cheapo's and $1 per blade for the Bahko's. I think that is still a great price. So far the Bahko's are so much better there is no comparison. It took 2 cheapo blades to cut through one 7/8" grade 8 bolt. Hah, all the teeth would strip off. I cut through the same bolt with the Bahco blade and other than some paint coming off, I can't tell that it has been used. Anyway, I ramble...

starmac
03-19-2018, 04:01 PM
Even a snap on torque wrench has to be recalibrated now and then, when I was wrenching every day I had a pretty good feel for torque specs, and would have probably just done without one before trusting a cheap one.

Omega
03-19-2018, 05:22 PM
Most tools now days are made in China. Some are of better quality than others, but made in China none the less.
I have quite a few Craftsman tools from the made in America days that are quite good. I have a few China Craftsman sockets and end wrenches that I don't think are any better than Harbor Freight tools. I have purchased a few Harbor tools thinking they were a one and done tool that have turned out to be surprising in quality. "Lifetime Warranty" tools doesn't mean your life time, as the company who stamps their name on them likely has changed hands, or quit making "that" tool. I bought a lifetime 1/4" socket set from Autozone to put in my junkyard scrounging tool box only to find they had discontinued that set when I broke the ratchet.
I think the 159 piece "Mechanics tool set" from anywhere is mostly junk, but if you pick and choose sockets and wrenches from the same store you can get good enough tools.

I had the same thing happen with Snap-on and Craftsman, the tool was discontinued and was replaced with a "like" tool. One was a come-along, I bought a craftsman for what I could have purchased two or three of the brand it was replaced with. Kobalt has some decent tools, but I hear their lifetime warranty is going to change. I don't mind breaking a tool, as long as I can replace it with as little problem as possible. Harbor Freight tools are hit and miss, but their return policy is decent so far, many of the tools I got for a one time use are still going.

brass410
03-19-2018, 05:29 PM
I have had good luck with the black sockets in 3/8 and 1/2 drive from northern tool as well as the great neck wrenches. I use these daily along with my snap on and mac and what have you brands. some are just what they are junk (you don't mind heating and bending to fit one time use kinda stuff) I really hate having to weld a 60.00 socket on to a wheel lock that is stripped off but a 5.00 from northern tool, meh. add it to the job price. Some stuff is kinda junky but use a bit of discression you probably wont be to disappointed. Like jimlj says 159 piece tool set for 10.99 probably under bench trash.

EDG
03-19-2018, 06:27 PM
I bought my first set of Craftsman combination wrenches as a teenager about 1965. Since then I worked 5 years as a machinist and 40 years as a engineer. My long use of tools at home and in industry has given me a good eye for quality.
I bought many name brand tools for back ups in the most common sizes at flea markets. I bought some house brand Asian brand forged tools when they were a configuration that might work better on starters and exhaust manifolds.
For my most used impact sockets I bought import sets that had a gap or 2 in the metric sets. I filled the gaps with Blackhawk impact sockets.
My 3/4" drive sockets are some cheap import but I don't have the sand in my pants to break them.
My 3/8" impact sockets are imports since they are super heavy walled they are in no danger of damage.
My original plated 1/2" drive sockets are Indestro brand that were palmed off on me for a bargain. They have taken a beating.
I have many specialty tools that were bought for ebay and flea market prices.
I have had excellent service out of all of them. I do not buy junk tools or measuring instruments.
My only issues are people that get into my stuff and keep it.

Thundarstick
03-19-2018, 08:05 PM
Ok, I went tool shopping today. I bought a 1/2 drive Craftsman low profile ratchet, 1/4,3/8,1/2 wobble drives. Looked at a bunch of stuff. I would be willing to bet 90% are made in the same 3 or 4 factories by the looks of them! Still looking for 1/2 drive sockets. I'm thinking about starting with single larger sized ones.

Blanket
03-19-2018, 10:02 PM
Been in the trades for over 40 years, grew up on farms wrenching before that. Buy the best you can that will do the job. Have box store tools in the house for fixing hinges, Better ones in the shop for when you really need them

OldBearHair
03-19-2018, 10:35 PM
Went to work for Land-Air Company in 1959. They told me to report to work on airplanes with this list. Went to Sears and bought everything on the list. An eggbeater drill that been used to drill many holes. A few of the other tools I still have, shears, duckbill small channel lock pliers, etc. I learned as did Mold-Maker (The good tools in my box are made to use. The cheap ones are to loan. Unlike the good stuff, the cheap ones always come home.) that when I needed something else, go to the Pawnshop and find the unchromed stuff, that had the tendency to stay in my toolbox at work. Once two fellows bought huge craftsmen tool boxes full of tools. Mobile Ala. Brookley Air Force Base. Friday came and we all locked our boxes to a big cable, one new box on one side of mine and one on the other side of mine. Monday we came to work to find their toolboxes missing and mine still as I left it. Mine was second handed and didn't look worth stealing .

shootmore
03-19-2018, 11:18 PM
I believe I only worked at one place that the Snap on truck stopped at. I thought there tools we're a little rich for me but I did buy a few of the most used tools from them. I liked Craftsman and Proto but I could only get them mail order from Sears and Grainger. I found that USA made Napa tools are a very good quality and there is a Napa store in most towns. The local Napa would have a yearly farm sale and the tools we're greatly reduced in price.

abunaitoo
03-20-2018, 02:40 AM
My Dad bought me my first set of tools.
Craftsman.
Have added to the set through out the years.
Mostly Craftsman.
Through out the years they, for the most part, have never let me down.
Not sure how good the newer Craftsman tools are, as I still use my originals.
Buy good tools, take care of them, and they will last you a lifetime.

mpkunz
03-20-2018, 07:00 AM
Harbor Freight - They may break after only 3 uses, but they are still cheaper than renting. :o)

EMC45
03-20-2018, 09:09 AM
As a side note....My Craftsman tools came to me when I turned 16. My mother asked me if I would rather have Nintendo (THE "thing" to have back then) or a comparably priced Craftsman tool kit. It was a "no-brainer" for me.

Lloyd Smale
03-20-2018, 09:30 AM
sk, snap on and matco are professional grade. My son in law is a lead mechanic at a big diesel repair shop here localy and trys to by SK more then any other. that said like you I'm not professional mechanic and don't use my tools daily. theres probably tools in my chest I haven't used in 5 years or more. I used to by craftsmen tools. they were good serviceable tools but have gone way down in quality since they went Chinese. Today I look first for any tool I buy at lowes. Ive had good luck with there "cobalt" tools. Fit and finish is much better then craftsmen of late and are close in price. But they kind of a have two grades and don't adveritise it. Stay away from the large tool sets. some of it is junk.

Blanket
03-20-2018, 07:18 PM
I have been in the trades for a lot of years and my advice to all the apprentices under me is to buy the best tools they can. Better to buy once/cry once. That being said there are a lot of good inexpensive tools out there. It is just getting harder to sort out the chaf. Snap-On makes several off branded tools that are sold thru other outlets such as box stores. How do I know? Working with them on projects. Craftsman tools went down hill several years ago. SK, Blackhawk, Proto, Mac, Williams, and many others were very good and I own a bunch of them. That being said I have bought and used many house brands for uses other than making a living. In my wife's tool drawer there are everything from a harbor freight tape measure to a snap on screwdriver. In my basement toolboxes Allen to high end, in my good tool boxes they are mostly high end.

fatelk
03-20-2018, 09:40 PM
I've been following this thread with interest. I'm going to be buying a bunch of tools for work soon and wasn't really sure what to get.

We don't use our tools every day, sometimes not even every week, but we do want decent tools. Fortunately I don't have to buy my own, just put in on my purchasing card. I don't know what my budget will be yet, but it's not extravagant.

Hannibal
03-20-2018, 09:49 PM
Most of my stuff is Craftsman with only a few pieces of snap-on (and I mean few). I'm talking 10-50 year old Craftsman stuff

These days, if you can find old Craftsman stuff at an estate sale or farm auction, that's probably your best bet. I feel fortunate, as I've got about everything I'll ever need.

Petrol & Powder
03-20-2018, 11:18 PM
By virtue of the expansive U.S. market that Sears controlled for almost 100 years, there's a LOT of Craftsman stuff out there. The Craftsman stuff is good and the old Craftsman stuff is better but don't overlook the other stuff.

The amount of high quality hand tools previously made in America is impressive. There's a lot of old stuff other than Craftsman that is very high quality; you just have to know what you're looking at. There are also some foreign made tools that are exceptionally high quality. If you have some knowledge, you can pick up some excellent old tools.

Knowledge is key.

Caveat Emptor

.45Cole
03-21-2018, 01:59 AM
Look into some of the higher Taiwan stuff, most of the larger mfgs actually use these Taiwan companies to make their tools. Also some of the great older brands are overlooked, PowerKraft, Indestructo, Herbrand, New Britian and yes old TAT. These will be good tools and can be found cheap. One word of warning, buy nice wrenches and sockets. It's amazing how a bad brand will round a nut, then my SK socket will grab on it and pull it out. Look at Grey Pneumatic for sockets and splurge on SK ratcheting wrenches.

Thundarstick
03-21-2018, 05:48 AM
I'm having my eyes opened to things I wasn't aware of. Taiwan does seem to be turning out some very good tools. I have learned that sockets, especially the 12 point sockets have gone through a huge redesign that originated with Snap- On, but now nearly everyone uses, or have even improved on this design. When I was young it seemed the better sockets where much thinner than the cheep sockets and this seems to still hold true. Looking into the Wright tools makes so many of my old tools look like they where all an adjustable spanner!:shock:

Lloyd Smale
03-21-2018, 09:24 AM
one thing about tools is if you do break them even the cheap craftsman have a life time warrantee. But you about need two of everything so you know you will allway have one. Like I said I'm a bit partial lately to kobalt. they seem better then the new craftsman and if I break something I can run over to lowes and get it replaced immediately with no questions asked.

Omega
03-21-2018, 09:30 AM
one thing about tools is if you do break them even the cheap craftsman have a life time warrantee. But you about need two of everything so you know you will allway have one. Like I said I'm a bit partial lately to kobalt. they seem better then the new craftsman and if I break something I can run over to lowes and get it replaced immediately with no questions asked.That has been my litmus test when I get any new tools, the warranty and ease of getting a tool replaced. That was one of the reasons I went Craftsman many years ago for my first set, but now most every tool has a good warranty and many places like Lowes and Harbor Freight give you a replacement on the spot.

Petrol & Powder
03-21-2018, 09:38 AM
I knew a guy that had three of each tool. One to use, One in case it breaks and One to loan out.

Now, he had a fair amount of money so he could afford to do that. I can't afford three copies of each tool but I have a lot of duplicates.

Handloader109
03-21-2018, 04:08 PM
Got a mix.... I have a 1/2" set that I bought back around '70 that was mixed surplus Still good, only broken a 12pt half inch socket. a couple of two or three sets of fairly cheap 3/8" drive sets, a few craftsman pipe wrenches, and crescents. A bunch of other junk.... But they get the job done. Just never had the money to spend on a big set of nice stuff.

starmac
03-21-2018, 05:13 PM
If you use tools much and depend on them, you will find a lot of cheaper tools are a little thicker and will not work at all for a lot of things.
When buying metric tools, which we all have to do now, for some unknown the cheaper sets skip sizes, what is up with that??

KCSO
03-21-2018, 08:36 PM
I have and still use tools passed down from my grandfathers. I was taught that you buy the best you cn afford and it will last a life time or more. I have Craftsman when they were still Sears and some snap On and various other speciality tools of good make. I once tried an engine change with Harbor Freight wrenched and threw the whole set away after I broke both the 1/2 and 9/16 box ends off clean at the cost of a few knuckles. I hand forge my inletting tools myself and turn my own punches.

Lloyd Smale
03-22-2018, 08:39 AM
yup its why I used to about exclusively by craftsman. But in this rural area sears went away about 10 years ago. Lowes is still right next to the grocery store.
That has been my litmus test when I get any new tools, the warranty and ease of getting a tool replaced. That was one of the reasons I went Craftsman many years ago for my first set, but now most every tool has a good warranty and many places like Lowes and Harbor Freight give you a replacement on the spot.

alamogunr
03-22-2018, 09:12 AM
I don't buy many wrenches these days. Most of what I have are either Proto or Craftsman bought over 30 years ago. I have never earned my living turning wrenches but still tried to buy quality(not name ie. Snap-On). My biggest error several years ago was when I started buying cordless electric tools. I went heavy on DeWalt. I found that the batteries didn't last and couldn't be rebuilt. Although the batteries can be rebuilt now, I've decided to slowly change to other brands when the last of the batteries gives up. Not sure what I will go to and may not replace at all. My decision not to buy DeWalt again was reinforced when B&D bought out DeWalt. I will never buy anything B&D.

mold maker
03-22-2018, 09:17 AM
I was gifted a three reel Toro Mower from a church when it was returned as too old and in too rough a shape to rebuild. It was in boxes, completely disassembled. I was 8 years old at the time, and within two weeks I had it reassembled.
Dad was so impressed that he bought me (us) a set of 109 Craftsman tools in a toolbox. I still have those and all the tools I added over 50 years of keeping the family vehicles rolling.
I now have a Grandson that is showing interests in what makes things work. The two rolling tool cabinets will someday be his.
Most of both boxes contents are older Craftsman and still as serviceable as new. Some of the rest are cheap loaners that see almost no use but protect the good stuff.
For the person who takes all their auto repairs to a mechanic, and has service personnel to make home repairs, the HF tools will last forever. For the rest of us, get the best you can afford and make an heir happy, after a lifetime of use. Good tools properly used will outlast several generations.

HangFireW8
03-22-2018, 10:31 PM
Since Craftsman, nostalgia, and good tool investments all come up a lot, I have to recap a lot of what has been discussed on GJ, and my conclusions.

The 90's era Craftsman (Metric) tools that I bought were not the equal of the older SAE Craftsman that I got from my Dad and GrandDad. Most of them are gone now, the "new thin-wall" sockets all split except the few in sizes I never use. The best are the BF code SAE Craftsman wrench set I got. They still occupy a place in my primary toolbox. Look that up, Craftsman BF code, if you want to be amused.

After 2.5 years (early 90's) of not being able to warrant a split 10mm deep socket because a.) EVERY Sears out of individual stock, and b.) will not split a set and c.) will not order one for me ("come back next week" "been doing that for over 2 years"), I had started to build up a good SK set of wrenches and sockets. The main thing was a single $400 purchase of most every 3/8" socket SK made at the time from a local auto parts store. Of all those sockets I've split exactly one, had it replaced recently on warranty (split it many years ago). That's compared to, oh, um, almost ALL of the Craftsman from the same era.

Then there were the Tri-Wing ratchets discretely NOT marked imported. HUGE backdrag, really unusable. The raised panel ratchets that auto-reversed (that's not a good thing). The loose Metric wrench sets (not a good thing). Pretty much everything Craftsman I bought from Sears was carp. I kept the best, beside that BF set is the 60's era stuff I inherited, and a 1/2" ratchet that has been through hell and high water with me. But the sockets it came with are SAE and all the cars are metric now, so I never use those sockets anymore except for plumbing, but that was the one good set of sockets I got out of them, in the late 80's before the thin-wall debacle.

Western Forge made Craftsman screwdrivers. Does ANYONE make a softer straight tipped screwdriver? Literally the first time I bear down on one I get a curved-edge screwdriver instead of a straight. I've been through so many warranty replacements I can't even count.

So no I'm not real nostalgic about Craftsman. A 25-30% hit rate on my purchases is not a good ratio. Not being able to warrant tools is not a good thing. Now it's all made in China. I moved on 2 decades ago. Not going back. Oh, I've bought a couple "Craftsman" marked tools since then. A quality Florida Pneumatic angle air drill marked Craftsman. A nice OTC slide hammer set marked Craftsman. Some Nupla USA made dead-blow hammers marked Craftsman. Sears is busy driving these best tools out of their catalog. But wrenches and sockets? Screwdrivers? No thank you.

samari46
03-22-2018, 10:45 PM
I bought Sears Craftsman many years ago. Mostly wrenches and socket sets. One of my first electric drills was Craftsman, drill chuck was not hardened enough and drill bits would just spin. Took it back and sales person told me no exchange. So went to the manager and he did the exchange. Over the years mostly Craftsman but when my Dad passed got a SK 1/4 socket set nothing like it out there today. Some sockets went missing so last year got tired of running around finding others in my roll around tool box. Went to Lowes bought their big socket set and ratchets and divided all my wrenches up into two complete sets. one in the garage the other in the sun room for the tractors,and truck. Kobalt has a good warrantee and is close to home. Frank

Bazoo
03-22-2018, 10:50 PM
I have a hodgepodge of stuff. New usa craftsman, and new china craftsman. Some older craftsman, but not much. Some new kobalt stuff, seems good. I pick up what I can at pawn shops and yardsales. If I needed a wrench set, i'd probably go with kobalt. A couple years ago, after I lost all my tools in a fire, i bought a craftsman china set that was on sale, Its acceptable. But thats it, Kobalt is better for medium quality stuff.

starmac
03-23-2018, 12:03 AM
I don't remember buying much craftsman tools since the 70's. The closest store was 100 miles from me, so what good was a warranty.
My knuckles never cared if a wrench had any warranty or not when anything let go, and since I stood a good chance of being a half day out on a service truck, who cares if a tool is warranted or not, I want the one that is least likely to break. I want the one that is not too fat to get on half the bolts it needs too, if you depend on tools, life is too short for junk, period. I still have some craftsman tools from the 70's, none are full sets, so they are delegated for backup use and have been for years.

nicholst55
03-23-2018, 12:10 AM
Don't overlook pawn shops when you have some time to kill. They often have top-end tools for sale at pretty reasonable prices. I have sorted through the box-o-tools that some pawn shops have and found Snap-On and Mac tools in there.

starmac
03-23-2018, 12:34 AM
I'm having my eyes opened to things I wasn't aware of. Taiwan does seem to be turning out some very good tools. I have learned that sockets, especially the 12 point sockets have gone through a huge redesign that originated with Snap- On, but now nearly everyone uses, or have even improved on this design. When I was young it seemed the better sockets where much thinner than the cheep sockets and this seems to still hold true. Looking into the Wright tools makes so many of my old tools look like they where all an adjustable spanner!:shock:

At one time wright had the contract to build the 3/4 and 1 in sockets for craftsmen, at least that was my understanding, but that was 25 years ago, who knows these days. I am pretty sure they were the builders of the blue point line as little as 5 years ago, at least the impact sockets.
I have not boughtany high end tools off a truck, unless it is a specialty tool that I can't get anywhere else in several years, It is not unusual for pawnshops to have full sets of snap on, mac or matco hand tools, not to mention estate sales, garage sales and auctions.

woodbutcher
03-23-2018, 09:40 PM
[smilie=s: I started my adventures in tools about 55 years ago.With Craftsman.It happened this way.Found a cloth bag of tools laying on the road.Took them home to check them out.They were all broken or well worn.Took them to the local Sears store and swapped them for new ones.Still using them today.Have a bit of a mix of just about all of the above mentioned tools.Have found a bunch and bought many at flea markets and yard sales.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

Thundarstick
03-23-2018, 10:33 PM
Think I'm done, except for hitting up pawn shops. Bought a 1/2 inch drive Craftsman ratchet , metric sockets from Gearwrench, Wright tools 5/8-1 inch sockets, Kobalt spline wrenches in SAE and metric along with a set of metric spline sockets in 1/4 and 3/8, and Mountain tools long SAE and metric reversible tilt head ratcheting wrenches. BTW, I can hardly remember the last time used a screwdriver that wasn't a bit chucked up in a cordless drill??

I used those spline wrenches to do some work on my tractor tiller, and shop door recently and I'm still in awe at how well they hold onto a bolt/ nut!

Thanks for the great replies! I hope I live long enough to wear some of them out! :razz:

ps
Did you know they make open ended wrenches now days that will twist a grade 8 bolt off before it will slip around the flats? Holy Cow what will they come up with next!

Hannibal
03-23-2018, 10:37 PM
Think I'm done, except for hitting up pawn shops. Bought a 1/2 inch drive Craftsman ratchet , metric sockets from Gearwrench, Wright tools 5/8-1 inch sockets, Kobalt spline wrenches in SAE and metric along with a set of metric spline sockets in 1/4 and 3/8, and Mountain tools long SAE and metric reversible tilt head ratcheting wrenches. BTW, I can hardly remember the last time used a screwdriver that wasn't a bit chucked up in a cordless drill??

I used those spline wrenches to do some work on my tractor tiller, and shop door recently and I'm still in awe at how well they hold onto a bolt/ nut!

Thanks for the great replies! I hope I live long enough to wear some of them out! :razz:

ps
Did you know they make open ended wrenches now days that will twist a grade 8 bolt off before it will slip around the flats? Holy Cow what will they come up with next!

A grade 8 will fail under a shock load before a grade 5 will. It is important to understand what stresses you are applying to the fastener.

alamogunr
03-24-2018, 12:07 AM
Sometime in the last year I needed(wanted) a 7/8-14 bolt. Of course there wasn't one to be found at the big box stores so I went to Fastenal. I was prepared to have them order one. The girl managing the store got on her computer and found that they had 2 in stock. a 3 1/2 and a 2 1/2. She told me a price I couldn't believe. I think it was about $3 for the two of them. When they picked them out of stock, they turned out to be grade 9 bolts. Up to that point I had never seen a grade 9 bolt. I needed one to seat a full wadcutter without the button. I think they just wanted them out of their inventory.

I never knew that about a grade 8 vs. a grade 5.

When I was working, I borrowed a fastener manual from another transformer plant. He wouldn't let me keep it so I copied it. It had all the standards and reasons why certain fasteners, bolts & nuts were specified for nuclear plants. Lots of good information but much that has no application in everyday life.

Hannibal
03-24-2018, 12:13 AM
It is a strange thing. If you experience enough failures, you will eventually accumulate a fair amount of knowledge.

Let's just say I've experienced more failures than most folks.

Thundarstick
03-24-2018, 09:10 AM
All I was saying was I had no idea that there are open end wrenches with tiny teeth cut into back of the jaws that bite into the bolt head when the corners begin to be rounded off. Sorta like a mini pipe wrench. Maby they will still round out a grade 5 because the steel isn't as strong, but all the demonstrations I saw where with a grade 8.

Petrol & Powder
03-24-2018, 09:54 AM
Don't overlook pawn shops when you have some time to kill. They often have top-end tools for sale at pretty reasonable prices. I have sorted through the box-o-tools that some pawn shops have and found Snap-On and Mac tools in there.

I've done the pawn shop crawl and it can produce good results IF you're knowledgeable.
1. Pawn shop pricing is often NOT good and most of the good deals you get in a pawn shop occur when the pawn shop made a mistake in their pricing. A used tool that is 95% the cost of an identical new old probably isn't worth the time needed to dig through the box of junk in order to find it. A used tool that is 110% of the cost of new one is decidedly NOT worth the price. I've seen used tools in pawn shops that were priced OVER new retail prices on many occasions.
2. You have to know what it is you're looking at. Just because something is old doesn't mean it was higher quality when made. There have always been cheap, low quality tools. The trick is to find the good deals on the high quality tools.

Finding good pawn shop deals can be done and if you have the time, it can actually be a little fun. Kind of like finding that seldom used "old .22 rifle" at a garage sale that turns out to be a Remington model 37 with a perfect bore.

mold maker
03-24-2018, 11:24 AM
The only bargain I ever found at a pawn shop was the exit door. They usually make a better profit on buying and selling than most retail sales. I do enjoy perusing their wares though to pass time and always hope to see something they mispriced. It does happen but not often.
I once spotted a rather rare $20. gold coin priced as a common minted one. The owner gave me a half roll of silver dimes for pointing it out to him. Honesty pays.

Lloyd Smale
03-25-2018, 07:44 AM
Company name can fool you. I remember back in the early 70s proto and Blackhawk tools were considered junk. today there both considered darned good tools.
I believe I only worked at one place that the Snap on truck stopped at. I thought there tools we're a little rich for me but I did buy a few of the most used tools from them. I liked Craftsman and Proto but I could only get them mail order from Sears and Grainger. I found that USA made Napa tools are a very good quality and there is a Napa store in most towns. The local Napa would have a yearly farm sale and the tools we're greatly reduced in price.

alamogunr
03-25-2018, 08:03 AM
Not sure why Proto and Blackhawk were considered "junk" but I bought my first wrench set in 1965, about 6 months out of college. It was a set of seven Proto metric wrenches so I could do minor maintenance on my '65 Volkswagen. I am still using those wrenches. Now they are used, along with several added sizes, as much as or more than my inch standard wrenches although now, I prefer to let the dealer do my maintenance.

HangFireW8
03-25-2018, 01:13 PM
Proto has never been junk. But they are an industrial brand not auto tools backed by a sales truck that visits mechanics on site.

Blackhawk is now a Taiwan import brand. Good stuff, I prefer their take on Vise Grips. Before that they were top end US made tools. Again not sure where "junk" came from... but I suspect the usual suspect, a certain truck brand talking trash about everyone else.

starmac
03-25-2018, 01:26 PM
As far as I know proto was considered a top brand. they never, as far as I know got into the specialty market, preffering to work the industrial market rather than automotive.

In the early days blackhawk was good tools, then went to pure junk for a few years, not sure how good they are these days.

mold maker
03-25-2018, 04:56 PM
Does anybody remember "Globe Master"?
Talk about junk. They even had a table full in the local grocery store. On some pieces, the packaging was tougher than the contents.

jonp
03-25-2018, 06:18 PM
Craftsman Socket Set, Screwdrivers etc Made In USA I bought in Canada of all places. Some Kobalt impact sockets for a Kobalt Air Gun my wife bought me for Christmas. Works good. Most other stuff is HF as I don't see spending money for stuff I'm going to use once in a while. My air tools except for the gun are Bostich as I got them used from a friend that was a contractor. Rebuilt them with a kit and they work great.

I should say that if I were making my living with these hand tools I would not shop HF but pick up quality stuff probably through Yard Sales, Ebay etc.. except for dummy tools like crowbars, pry bars etc. I do have a 1/2in drill driver I bought from HF. Punched a bunch of holes in a concrete footing for anchor bolts and it works fine.

Reverend Al
03-25-2018, 06:26 PM
Maybe you could find some tools in this flyer that would be of use to you?

:bigsmyl2:

https://i.imgur.com/r0DmB9T.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GvZ1Xgx.jpg

starmac
03-25-2018, 06:28 PM
I literally hate cheap pry bars, heel bars, alignment bars, etc they are less than useless as far as I am concerned.

jonp
03-25-2018, 07:07 PM
Tell me that whale gutting knife wouldn't be useful somewhere.
Starmac: they work for the times I need them. If I was using them everyday then quality would be the order of the day. I kept a cheapo socket set in my truck for years and still have it. Got me off the side of the road many times..along with duct tape and zip ties with an occasional bungee cord thrown in for good measure

starmac
03-25-2018, 07:16 PM
I keep cheap impact sockets in the truck, they do not fit as good, but will get the job done without fear of breaking them, I will not keep a cheap ratchet with them, too many busted knuckles for that, then you sit there with a socket you can't use anyway. lol

There for a while, and may still do it, but several cheap tool companies were building snap on look alike bars with the plastic handle, I have grabbed more than one and snapped i off, heel and alignment bars generally bend too easy for my tastes. It is rare that I have spent big bucks on prybars, but have a boat load of good us made ones I have picked up here and there.

Omega
03-25-2018, 07:16 PM
I literally hate cheap pry bars, heel bars, alignment bars, etc they are less than useless as far as I am concerned.I was putting in some corner posts and no matter where I chose to dig, I'd hit a large rock, my post hole digger just couldn't manage. So I went to HF, and got this cheap, by half of most places I checked, bar.
https://www.harborfreight.com/17-lb-digging-bar-with-tamper-93612.html
217084
I figured I'd beat the mess out of it but no, the limestone rocks were no match. Cut my time in half at least putting in the rest of the posts. And since it's just a bar, I expect for it to last me a lifetime.

Bazoo
03-25-2018, 09:49 PM
The older Kobalt tools were made by snap-on. I had a run of sockets, and screwdriver set. Dang tough. Another lesser known brand, that I have run into that I thought was pretty good was Easco. My favorite pawn shop in town sells USA made wrenches for 2.00 each I think, and others for 1 or something. I've bought several, need to go back.

M-Tecs
03-26-2018, 12:23 AM
When I made a living with tools to purchased only high end stuff. Recently I need some sets for the truck and cabin. Lose to theft is a very real possibility. Most of the big box stores carry cost effective tools that still have a lifetime warranty. Those are the one I purchased. I have used some a far amount and they are holding up well.

Lloyd Smale
03-30-2018, 07:27 AM
I'm not sure but will say my kobalt ratchets are very similar to snap on.
The older Kobalt tools were made by snap-on. I had a run of sockets, and screwdriver set. Dang tough. Another lesser known brand, that I have run into that I thought was pretty good was Easco. My favorite pawn shop in town sells USA made wrenches for 2.00 each I think, and others for 1 or something. I've bought several, need to go back.

EDG
03-30-2018, 07:45 AM
One of my uncles was in the US ARMY right after the Korean War. He was trained to maintain heavy generator engines. He got out of the army with a nice set of Proto combination wrenches in a OD green cloth roll. I have never seen a single junk Proto tool.