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Beagle333
03-18-2018, 09:05 PM
I think this is bad news for those of us who use opioids wisely and judiciously and in accordance with our doctor's orders.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/379049-trump-to-release-plan-addressing-opioid-epidemic-on-monday

The scariest part is that they plan to let the Feds monitor who really needs them. How would they know better than my doctor, who has years of personal experience in monitoring my pain and needs?

The administration aims to cut opioid prescriptions by one-third within three years by implementing a “Safer Prescribing Plan.” This includes incentivizing states to move to a national database monitoring opioid prescriptions to help flag people requesting numerous prescriptions.
Well, I don't really NEED "numerous prescriptions", but since they won't give me more than a one month supply and they can't give refills, then I do need at least one prescription per month.

And I have read about the studies that show that opioids are not the best thing for long term chronic pain. I might agree with that, due to a tolerance build-up if you don't follow the directions and take breaks. But I don't have chronic pain. I have acute pain. It isn't like a burn or a sore muscle or even a big cut, where the pain is fairly constant and ongoing. It's like a midget with a knife has jumped me and is stabbing me in the leg. (vascular problems) It comes on fast and it needs to be knocked out fast, so it needs a strong, rapidly-acting drug, which currently is only available as an opioid. I don't need to take two pills of something every 8 hours, three times a day, because I don't hurt all day, and sometimes it might skip a couple of days. But when it hits, it hits hard and fast and my Percodan is the answer for it.

coloraydo
03-18-2018, 09:13 PM
Typical gov't, penalize the many because of the few. Hmmm, sounds familiar.:veryconfu

Houndog
03-18-2018, 10:29 PM
Beagle, I agree with you 100%, but I think I have found the better mouse trap at least for my back and knee pain! Have you ever tried acupuncture? I've had bad back and knee pain since my late teens from an old injury and got pushed into trying acupuncture about a year ago after having surgery for it for the third time. It worked better than I could have ever dreamed! The pain is simply gone. It's not the answer for everybody but it is worth every cent in my case.

poppy42
03-18-2018, 10:33 PM
I think this is bad news for those of us who use opioids wisely and judiciously and in accordance with our doctor's orders.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/379049-trump-to-release-plan-addressing-opioid-epidemic-on-monday

The scariest part is that they plan to let the Feds monitor who really needs them. How would they know better than my doctor, who has years of personal experience in monitoring my pain and needs?

Well, I don't really NEED "numerous prescriptions", but since they won't give me more than a one month supply and they can't give refills, then I do need at least one prescription per month.

And I have read about the studies that show that opioids are not the best thing for long term chronic pain. I might agree with that, due to a tolerance build-up if you don't follow the directions and take breaks. But I don't have chronic pain. I have acute pain. It isn't like a burn or a sore muscle or even a big cut, where the pain is fairly constant and ongoing. It's like a midget with a knife has jumped me and is stabbing me in the leg. (vascular problems) It comes on fast and it needs to be knocked out fast, so it needs a strong, rapidly-acting drug, which currently is only available as an opioid. I don't need to take two pills of something every 8 hours, three times a day, because I don't hurt all day, and sometimes it might skip a couple of days. But when it hits, it hits hard and fast and my Percodan is the answer for it.

I’m with you! Mine is all orthopedic

Thundarstick
03-18-2018, 11:10 PM
The OP won't be affected by this, it's aimed at Drs who are pill pushers, and patents who abuse opioids. IE, I have known lots of addicts that brow beat, guilted, begged, and otherwise manipulated family members to feign pain to get prescriptions for them! I use to perform loads of drugscreens on employment applications, now I do loads to make sure the patient is taking the med they are prescribed! My late FIL had osteoarthritis so severely he had to have Morphine just to sleep a few hours, so I do know about people who need these meds. Personally, I'm of the opinion that long term pain relief should go through a Dr that specializes in pain management, I also think a GP MD has absolutely no business prescribing mind altering drugs to patients with no psychological exam or follow up! All these drugs need to be better controlled, followed, and regulated, but when the drug reps have regular dinner dates with clinics staff and Drs to tell them all about the latest greatest drug they have just rolled out it does make one wonder about the whole sit up, not mentioning the Washington bribes!

glockfan
03-18-2018, 11:31 PM
i sympathize with the people plagued with spondylolysis and such disc-vertebras degenerative problems ....again, innocent people will be ostrascized because a restricted number of junkies not able to control their intake.

back problems can be very,very painfull and the pain associated is bright and cutting. at some point in the case of degenerative spine's problems , oxycodon and opioid are the only durable solution so the person is able to relax and focus on their regular activities-work instead of having to manage their resistance to sharp pain ; without the help of such med it really is breathtaking and discouraging to the point some wish to die instead of having to support the pain any longer.

the little glitch happening for some is : when you waited a year to get the so awaited surgery that is supposed to free you from pain, in the meantime chances are that the habit instilled from everyday use can drive to addiction,understandably......why? because from my point of view,i'd rather have to fight a little at defeating an habit to painkillers that has freed me from suffering in the wait for a surgery, than having to suffer all the time ''''because opioids can be addictive and blablabla .....there's no virtuous way of living with constant pain ;at one point addict or not, being forced to support a sharp pain all day long is something that shouldn't even be permited. !!!!'''''''''.

OverMax
03-19-2018, 02:25 AM
Ibuprofen has been mentioned to replace oxicondon. {less side effects.} and taken in a high dose is not addictive and garners longer lasting relief. Life long prescriptions of opiate drugs to folks is under Gov scrutiny like never before.

It's a conspiracy so to speak? Or a collusion!! going on by all doctors to keep their patience High & Wide and relying on for more. "gim'me some ya'll"

Beagle333
03-19-2018, 02:49 AM
I do get my opioids from a doctor at the Pain Management Clinic, located inside the hospital. They communicate with my GP and my surgeon and then the doc at the pain management center is the one who prescribes the meds. As I said, Ibuprofen is not effective on my acute pain. I cannot take Acetaminophen (Tylenol) due to a reaction to it, although it also is not effective on my acute pain.
I am aware of and have read some of the studies on Ibuprofen, but in the real world, my ex wife died from a dependency on and abuse of OTC Ibuprofen for her chronic pain (she was stubborn and rarely would go to a doc for it), so I know it can kill you just as dead as any opioid and isn't the nice, safe alternative to chronic pain they would have you believe. Any pain med should be monitored and regulated, but I'm just saying don't throw the genuine pain sufferers into a generic class of people and deny us the relief just to satisfy some feel-good goal and make the numbers look good on a Federal level.

I think that OTC drugs such as Ibuprofen are also quite dangerous, because people that use those are self medicating and never have to seek out a doctor, whereas opioid users at least do use the doctors until they stop following the directions and drift into dependency.

Again, I am not saying I wouldn't hand in my opioids and never use them again, if somebody presented another drug that worked at least as well, just don't cut me off an tell me to go chew on a rawhide-wrapped stick for my pain. (at the Wound Treatment Center, they are scared to prescribe anything, so they just tell me to go keep it elevated and squeeze a ball or lift a weight to take my mind off it).
I deserve to be able to function and work and sleep peacefully and enjoy activities and there is a drug out there that allows me to do that....... and at the moment, its name is Opioid.

Rcmaveric
03-19-2018, 03:42 AM
OTC pain meds not taken correctly damages the kidneys. I personally don't like taking anything. When my back acts up and i cant walk right for a bit. I got one of the tinge units because i don't like taking pills. My wife is on have narcotics daily to survive the pain. I cant imagine what that stuff is doing to her.

GhostHawk
03-19-2018, 08:15 AM
My wife takes tylanol 3 with Codeine. Been on it for years, it is the only thing that lets her keep the fibromyalgia pain backed off.

Now she works at the local Essentia call center. So she knows how to work the system.
But last summer they decided they were not going to give out opoids anymore. To anyone.

She went to 5 different doctors before one finally told her that she is not going to find what she is looking for. It was one of those "Policy" things. You know, the kind written by someone who sits behind a desk who has no real world experience. Not a doctor, more likely a lawyer.

She even tried their so called "Pain Clinic", no go. Those are really for dealing with problem patients you know.

So she tried to quit, for 6 weeks she struggled with tapering off. Dealing with pain, side effects.
In the end, she admitted she'd rather be dead than live like that.

So she was forced to go out of network, pay 600$ 4 times a year out of her own pocket to keep her prescription for Tylenol 3 with Codeine. She does not abuse them, she takes 2 a day. Has for 25 years.

But someone behind a desk can write a "Policy" put her through months of agony.

No I'm not happy with what they call "Medicine". Its a rip off, designed to separate you from your money. And that is pretty much all they care about.

bikerbeans
03-19-2018, 08:33 AM
If you think it is hard to get a opiate now, wait till you wind up in a nursing home. The Govt. is taking pain meds away from folks who aren't capable of defending themselves. All this in an effort to create statistics that some lawyermaker can use to show how tough they are on illegal drugs.

BB

popper
03-19-2018, 10:30 AM
Yup, Gov. decided to spend $B on war against drugs. Ca. is trying to reduce state tax on M.J. It's all about $$.

opos
03-19-2018, 12:36 PM
My Wife has had a lumbar laminectomy, 2 back lumbar fusion operations and a 3 level neck vertebrae fusion...she suffers bursitis in her left hip and leg and also has fibromialgia..She has been diagnosed and her surgeries done at Scripps Green Hospital in Torry Pines, Ca...one of the finest and most conservative orthopedic hospitals in the Country..she is now under the care of one of their pain management specialists as she can't deal with more surgery at her age....she takes 1 1/2 -2 Vicidin per day...no more and has shots for the bursa situation every 2 months (she was there this morning). ..We are very sensitive to drugs and alcohol as she and I both had issues with them as young folks (she is over 40 years sober and I'm 37)...there are folks that will say taking any drug is a "violation" of sobriety but they don't lay awake at night crying in pain....Since she is being treated by a top notch hospital and their pain management group she should be ok with the gubberment...She tried 800 motrin for a while but it almost rotted out her stomach and bowel even with food so was told to stop.

I have minor (compared to her) constant pain...broken back in the 70's, shattered femur and knee replacement and a broken neck in the late 60's..I break one vicodin into 4 pieces and spread them out over a day..frequently not using any and usually about 1/2 to 3/4 per day...I'm 80 and know of folks my age that live on the vicodin from pain....I see the pain manager at Alvarado Hospital.

If that kind of procedure for the wife and for me is in violation of some sort of gubberment rule we will simply have to deal with it....we have both been "test" subjects in situations and the treat ments were worse than the pain situaition...The gubberment should **** well be able to determine who is truly in need and who is taking 20 vicodin a day to stay stoned.....

TXGunNut
03-19-2018, 01:27 PM
I can't take opioids because I took them too long to manage chronic back pain and risk a very unpleasant withdrawal if I take even one or two. That didn't stop a dentist (several years ago) from prescribing 30 (!!!!) tablets after a difficult extraction. I feel some doc's continue to over-prescribe them and I'm certain some "seekers" will continue to convince other docs to prescribe them. Of course the folks that actually need opioids will face scrutiny or be forced to use less effective drugs. I'm lucky that Ibuprofen works good enough for me and that I seldom need to take it.

Traffer
03-19-2018, 01:37 PM
This "national data base" is the really, REALLY, bad part. Peoples medical history is probably the easiest way for the Government to "intervene" in our lives. This is very gestapo stuff folks. It is a real threat. I have been prescribed opioids for about 8 years now. I was on Vicodin when I lived in Florida. I moved to Wisconsin and my doctor said he had to sign a pledge where he worked to not prescribe Vicodin for long term. So he referred me to a "Pain Clinic" The doctor at the pain clinic told me that Vicodin had so much bad press lately that his company wouldn't allow him to prescribe it. After listening to my story he prescribed Morphine AND oxycodone. Slow release morphine twice a day and oxycodone for break out pain. After being on them now for about 6 years, I just had a near death situation with my guts not working from the stuff. So I went off of the oxycodone. There is much I could say about opioids having experienced them for this time. Too much to write here. But two things I will say, 1) in the years I had taken these drugs I have not felt "high" one time. and 2) in my opinion it is relatively easy to "go off" of this medication. The hard part is that when you need relief of pain, it is hard not to take something that will help if it is sitting in front of you. I have overcome a lot of tough stuff in my life, I wouldn't put opioids even on the list. Compared to something like smoking cigarettes...piece of cake.

farmerjim
03-19-2018, 01:47 PM
I have lots of back problems and pain. I can't take NSAIDs because I am on a blood thinner. I can't take Tylenol because I am on Methotrexate and It will kill my liver. The only thing that I could take was percocet. It worked to dull the pain. They have now made it almost impossible to get. I have had to add 2 more blood pressure meds and double my glyburide because the pain drove up my BP and blood glucose so much. Punish those that sell these drugs illegally, not those that need them.

mpkunz
03-19-2018, 02:00 PM
Punish the law abiding. I was hoping this president wasn't going to do that kind of thing. I had rotator cuff surgery and the surgeon only provided 30 tabs. Taking it according to his directions, they were going in less than a week, and the pain was indescribable after that. I had to go to a different doctor in the same practice, who reviewed the records, and then provided more with an apology. Aside from the death penalty for dealers, I can't see anything productive coming from this. The message is clear. Don't get injured.

Char-Gar
03-19-2018, 03:31 PM
I have been in pain 24/7/365 from back, knees and hips for over 30 years. The pain ranged from moderate to severe. I have taken all kinds of pain meds over that period of time. The time came when the side effect and consequences became unacceptable.

So, three months ago, I decided to take life straight up and stopped taking any and all pain meds. The pain grew for about ten days and then leveled off. Today, I still hurt, but it is something I can deal with. You will be surprised what you can adjust to.

The only people that don't feel pain are dead people. Feeling pain means we are alive. There are lots of kind of pain in this life, physical, emotional and spiritual and we can't run from any of it.

Char-Gar
03-19-2018, 03:36 PM
Ibuprofen has been mentioned to replace oxicondon. {less side effects.} and taken in a high dose is not addictive and garners longer lasting relief. Life long prescriptions of opiate drugs to folks is under Gov scrutiny like never before.

It's a conspiracy so to speak? Or a collusion!! going on by all doctors to keep their patience High & Wide and relying on for more. "gim'me some ya'll"

With ongoing use, Ibuprofen will kill you kidneys. So will any other NSAID.

lefty o
03-19-2018, 03:58 PM
I think this is bad news for those of us who use opioids wisely and judiciously and in accordance with our doctor's orders.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/379049-trump-to-release-plan-addressing-opioid-epidemic-on-monday

The scariest part is that they plan to let the Feds monitor who really needs them. How would they know better than my doctor, who has years of personal experience in monitoring my pain and needs?

Well, I don't really NEED "numerous prescriptions", but since they won't give me more than a one month supply and they can't give refills, then I do need at least one prescription per month.

And I have read about the studies that show that opioids are not the best thing for long term chronic pain. I might agree with that, due to a tolerance build-up if you don't follow the directions and take breaks. But I don't have chronic pain. I have acute pain. It isn't like a burn or a sore muscle or even a big cut, where the pain is fairly constant and ongoing. It's like a midget with a knife has jumped me and is stabbing me in the leg. (vascular problems) It comes on fast and it needs to be knocked out fast, so it needs a strong, rapidly-acting drug, which currently is only available as an opioid. I don't need to take two pills of something every 8 hours, three times a day, because I don't hurt all day, and sometimes it might skip a couple of days. But when it hits, it hits hard and fast and my Percodan is the answer for it.

its always the dang midgets!! LOL

starmac
03-19-2018, 04:07 PM
My wife takes tylanol 3 with Codeine. Been on it for years, it is the only thing that lets her keep the fibromyalgia pain backed off.

Now she works at the local Essentia call center. So she knows how to work the system.
But last summer they decided they were not going to give out opoids anymore. To anyone.

She went to 5 different doctors before one finally told her that she is not going to find what she is looking for. It was one of those "Policy" things. You know, the kind written by someone who sits behind a desk who has no real world experience. Not a doctor, more likely a lawyer.

She even tried their so called "Pain Clinic", no go. Those are really for dealing with problem patients you know.

So she tried to quit, for 6 weeks she struggled with tapering off. Dealing with pain, side effects.
In the end, she admitted she'd rather be dead than live like that.

So she was forced to go out of network, pay 600$ 4 times a year out of her own pocket to keep her prescription for Tylenol 3 with Codeine. She does not abuse them, she takes 2 a day. Has for 25 years.

But someone behind a desk can write a "Policy" put her through months of agony.

No I'm not happy with what they call "Medicine". Its a rip off, designed to separate you from your money. And that is pretty much all they care about.

GhostHawk, you are not that far from the border, Tylenol 3 can be bought at any drugstore in Canada, the last time I bought any, no prescription, iirc you can bring 2 bottles back and you can buy the 100 pill bottles. I can't take them because of my proffession, but I have picked them up for others several times.

Tracy
03-19-2018, 04:23 PM
This article claims the crackdown on prescription pain meds is driving the illicit opioid problem:
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/ywn54b/how-the-crackdown-on-painkillers-is-killing-people

white eagle
03-19-2018, 05:08 PM
that is like saying the ar15 is the cause of school shootings
it makes no sense to me why they just call it a heroin problem instead
of making the people who really need these to suffer for the few who
kill themselves
want to solve the opiod problem atop giving the junkies a free ticket back
with naloxone

Jniedbalski
03-19-2018, 06:31 PM
The more the government cracks down on pain meds the more the drug dealers will bring illegal drugs. The government hasent learned over probation have they. I have been on pain meds for over ten years. It’s almost impossible to find a doc that will prescribe even with documation that you need it. China is bring in heroine that is usually fental. It’s a synthetic drug that they make that is easy to transport because it’s so small a quanity 100 times more powerfully.than morfen . If they make it impossible for people that need it they will find a way to get it.china will just start shipping more over and the dealers will have a open market.

shooter93
03-19-2018, 06:37 PM
The only people who will be hurt by the "crack down" will be those who need it. If you think you're going to stop an addict from getting drugs you're a fool. Pain is different for everyone and some can tolerate an amount of pain others can't. I've been through the entire gambit after a number of very major surgeries. They may be finally after three years of extreme pain getting me to where I can function and work again. I have tried every type of medication and acupuncture. nerve blocks, nerve burns etc. It would be easier to tell you what I haven't tried than what I have. It is nasty chronic pain all the time.

Duckiller
03-19-2018, 07:40 PM
Big pharma and people in general won't control them selves . Big pharma wants big bucks selling drugs. People just want to get happy and not worry about side effects,m therefore they die. Gov has a problem with citizens committing suicide, either knowingly or unknowingly. Check out the number of states that have voted for medical or recreational use of marijunana. It is all BS. Marijuana is mostly recreational use. People think they have a Constitutional right to get high. These are people that have never read the Constitution. I am truly sorry for people with major pain management problems but their are too many idiots running around loose.

JBinMN
03-19-2018, 07:59 PM
Once again, the gubment thinks they should be able to get involved in the privacy & the personal liberty of the citizens. Communism/Socialism, Leftist & Marxist BS....

Those who try to do such things are "Domestic enemies" of the US Constitution.

WHEN & IF the gubment tries to implement a "National database" of ANY medication or medical treatment legally prescribed by MDs, interfering with the confidentiality of the Dr. /Patient relationship, as well as breaking the HIPAA laws already implemented to protect such confidentiality, and that is when they have overstepped their bounds.

It is no different that the legal confidentiality one is supposed to have with their attorney,as well as the 5th Amend. Right of the US Constitution which allows that no one is required to provide evidence against themselves.

More Illegal Tyranny by the Gubment... Another attack on it by "Domestic enemies" & MUST STOP!

10-x
03-19-2018, 08:14 PM
Good thread. Like many have bad back, have all kinds of injections, nerve burning ECT, no good. Tramadol works, monthly visit to pain management MD is what it takes. He tells me he wished all his patients were like me. I hate taking anything, but to get " the knife out of your back", you have to do what you have to do.

MaryB
03-19-2018, 09:51 PM
I have been through the pain management wringer, only thing that helps is oxycontin and percocet. Slow release oxy and a perc when I wake up so I can get my muscles moving without feeling like someone is stabbing a knife in my spine(My spine is self fusing slowly... extremely painful process... plus a laminectomy, neck fusion, rotator cuff twice on my right shoulder, carpal tunnel twice right wrist, thumb tendon shortened and reattached, knee scoped, and a nerve tumor removed from left hip that left long term nerve damage. Oh and I am ignoring a torn left rotator cuff, left wrist carpal tunnel, and torn acl's in both knees, and a bone spur right hip!). At 8pm I repeat that and at midnight just a perc to sleep. My script is for up to 3 oxy a day and 6 perc, I have days I use more but tend to take the minimum I can to be able to function and to sleep.

I am having trouble with the pharmacy not having the meds, government is cutting supply and hurting those of us who are responsible about taking our meds. And hospitals are having supply problems of the injectables for people who have had surgery! This stupidity has to end.

GhostHawk
03-20-2018, 08:19 AM
GhostHawk, you are not that far from the border, Tylenol 3 can be bought at any drugstore in Canada, the last time I bought any, no prescription, iirc you can bring 2 bottles back and you can buy the 100 pill bottles. I can't take them because of my proffession, but I have picked them up for others several times.

Saving that for last resort. I know they are readily available there.

Also getting 3 months supply of my blood pressure meds, Bystolic from Canada drug online.

Local pharmacy with Medicare and Part D Suppliment is 560$ for a months supply.
I can get 3 months supply from canada for less than half that.

And that Part D suppliment I pay for, listed that drug as being covered. But within a month after signing up it was no longer covered. That is how they rip you off. Its in the fine print, they can change anything at any time.

glockfan
03-20-2018, 08:39 AM
I have been through the pain management wringer, only thing that helps is oxycontin and percocet. Slow release oxy and a perc when I wake up so I can get my muscles moving without feeling like someone is stabbing a knife in my spine(My spine is self fusing slowly... extremely painful process... plus a laminectomy, neck fusion, rotator cuff twice on my right shoulder, carpal tunnel twice right wrist, thumb tendon shortened and reattached, knee scoped, and a nerve tumor removed from left hip that left long term nerve damage. Oh and I am ignoring a torn left rotator cuff, left wrist carpal tunnel, and torn acl's in both knees, and a bone spur right hip!). At 8pm I repeat that and at midnight just a perc to sleep. My script is for up to 3 oxy a day and 6 perc, I have days I use more but tend to take the minimum I can to be able to function and to sleep.


wheew.....i thought my body was a wreck ! Mary, in your case, waking up in the morning should be called '''soldier on'''; just walking must be an act of god!

Thundarstick
03-20-2018, 10:13 AM
You really don't think HIPPA protects you from the government finding out anything about you, do you? :roll::roll::roll:[smilie=l:

We go through mandatory HIPPA training every year about who can and can't access your "protected health information", and the government sure isn't on the restricted list! :shock:

JBinMN
03-20-2018, 10:23 AM
You really don't think HIPPA protects you from the government finding out anything about you, do you? :roll::roll::roll:[smilie=l:

We go through mandatory HIPPA training every year about who can and can't access your "protected health information", and the government sure isn't on the restricted list! :shock:

They should be at the TOP of the list, IMO.

I am one of those who is getting very tired of the gubment sticking its nose into folks business.
:mad:

P.S. - it is HIPAA, not HIPPA. Just sayin...

https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/guidance/restrictions-on-government-access-to-health-information/index.html?language=es

Thundarstick
03-20-2018, 10:37 AM
Fupa, sorry:oops: HIPAA

sparky45
03-20-2018, 10:44 AM
The OP won't be affected by this, it's aimed at Drs who are pill pushers, and patents who abuse opioids. IE, I have known lots of addicts that brow beat, guilted, begged, and otherwise manipulated family members to feign pain to get prescriptions for them! I use to perform loads of drugscreens on employment applications, now I do loads to make sure the patient is taking the med they are prescribed! My late FIL had osteoarthritis so severely he had to have Morphine just to sleep a few hours, so I do know about people who need these meds. Personally, I'm of the opinion that long term pain relief should go through a Dr that specializes in pain management, I also think a GP MD has absolutely no business prescribing mind altering drugs to patients with no psychological exam or follow up! All these drugs need to be better controlled, followed, and regulated, but when the drug reps have regular dinner dates with clinics staff and Drs to tell them all about the latest greatest drug they have just rolled out it does make one wonder about the whole sit up, not mentioning the Washington bribes!

Apparently you forgot how the govt manipulates; first a foot in the door, and then they think they are experts and amend legislation to their liking simply by voice vote (at times). Keep the govt OUT of our PERSONAL lives.

sparky45
03-20-2018, 10:48 AM
I do get my opioids from a doctor at the Pain Management Clinic, located inside the hospital. They communicate with my GP and my surgeon and then the doc at the pain management center is the one who prescribes the meds. As I said, Ibuprofen is not effective on my acute pain. I cannot take Acetaminophen (Tylenol) due to a reaction to it, although it also is not effective on my acute pain.
I am aware of and have read some of the studies on Ibuprofen, but in the real world, my ex wife died from a dependency on and abuse of OTC Ibuprofen for her chronic pain (she was stubborn and rarely would go to a doc for it), so I know it can kill you just as dead as any opioid and isn't the nice, safe alternative to chronic pain they would have you believe. Any pain med should be monitored and regulated, but I'm just saying don't throw the genuine pain sufferers into a generic class of people and deny us the relief just to satisfy some feel-good goal and make the numbers look good on a Federal level.

I think that OTC drugs such as Ibuprofen are also quite dangerous, because people that use those are self medicating and never have to seek out a doctor, whereas opioid users at least do use the doctors until they stop following the directions and drift into dependency.

Again, I am not saying I wouldn't hand in my opioids and never use them again, if somebody presented another drug that worked at least as well, just don't cut me off an tell me to go chew on a rawhide-wrapped stick for my pain. (at the Wound Treatment Center, they are scared to prescribe anything, so they just tell me to go keep it elevated and squeeze a ball or lift a weight to take my mind off it).
I deserve to be able to function and work and sleep peacefully and enjoy activities and there is a drug out there that allows me to do that....... and at the moment, its name is Opioid.

Ibuprofen in long term higher doses WILL adversely affect the Liver and about all other organ systems. Dangerous drug if used in management of chronic pain.

Dadswickedammo
03-20-2018, 11:16 AM
I am in the middle of this now. My Dr. At the V.A. is under fire prescribing me Vicodin I was in a wheel chair last week with degenerative discs with the Vicodin back at work with staggering pain but standing sitting and working.
I think it's all political buzz words .

nekshot
03-20-2018, 04:13 PM
I only got one thing to say for me. Sign as many petitions as I can to legalize hemp!

osteodoc08
03-20-2018, 07:13 PM
It has been an ongoing problem for years. In GA we have the “PMPAWARE” database that we were required to sign up for. Most clinical staff can sniff out the seekers from the folks that truly need help.

Tylenol is metabolized in the Liver

NSAIDS are metabolized in the Kidneys.

NSAIDS carry side effects including renal failure and GI bleeding and ulcers. Not to mention increased risks of heart attack and stroke. They are far from benign and, I personally feel, are far more dangerous than narcotics (when taken appropriately) in an aging population.

MaryB
03-20-2018, 10:28 PM
wheew.....i thought my body was a wreck ! Mary, in your case, waking up in the morning should be called '''soldier on'''; just walking must be an act of god!

I don't need rice crispies cereal, I snap crackle and pop getting up! Many mornings I stand then kind of lean on the wall until the pain settles a bit, then limp down to shower(heat helps first thing) then breakfast of champions, pain meds and V8 LOL some mornings I semi roll to the floor in a very crouched position then hand walk erect up the wall to get my back unkinked... getting old isn't for sissies and I haven't hit 60 yet!

3006guns
03-20-2018, 10:37 PM
I've had TWO back surgeries........and still have mild pain. Normally ibuprofen helps...but does not eradicate.....the pain. I try to be very careful of my back but on occasion I do something stupid and I NEED those pills. I have a 30 day supply that lasts me about 4 months, which shows you how few I actually take.

I understand there's an opioid problem.........but I'm not causing it and I'll be hanged if some government agency is going to make my life miserable because of someone else's abuse!

Beagle333
03-20-2018, 11:07 PM
:goodpost: Exactly!!!! I think that's what we're all sayin'.

woodbutcher
03-21-2018, 03:06 PM
[smilie=s: I`m 72 and I know all about the"Rice Krispy Kids" syndrome.Had back and joint problems for more years than I care to think about.Local so called "Pain Clinics"are a joke.
Rude receptionists and even more rude and WGAS attitude Drs make me want to puke.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

MaryB
03-21-2018, 10:24 PM
What really ticked me off is Walmart pushed narcan at me last refill. I have been using these for 10 years, never upped the dose, in fact I lowered it on my own...

GaryN
03-24-2018, 01:48 AM
My best friend lost his wife a few years ago because of tylenol poisoning. It killed her liver. She was on long term lortab for some stomach problems. She was feeling really sick so she took some tylenol cold and flu. It was too much. It wasn't the opiod that killed her but they probably wrote it up that way.

GhostHawk
03-24-2018, 07:27 AM
At one point I was dealing with some late blooming wisdom teeth. One of which got impacted, stuck at an angle and hooked on the molar in front of it.

My wife had pushed me towards Aleeve. Finally surgery happened and they pulled the impacted one, the other one backed off for a spell.

But after almost a year of regularly taking 2-4 aleeve a day I could tell I was on the edge of major problems.

So I quit all of it, if I was hurting bad enough I would take 2 aspirin in a 24 hour period, no more.

Slowly over 3 years I felt myself cleansing and pulling back from that cliff edge I had been standing on.

The more I have read and studied about Aleeve and Nsaid's the more scared I got.

I was a lucky guy.

And the world of Medicine does not know half the stuff it thinks it does. And it is really poor at studying long term reactions of anything.

Lloyd Smale
03-25-2018, 08:20 AM
I took them for 5 years daily. Don't know why but the addition never got ahold of me. I drank like a fish up till about the age of 30 too but never HAD to have a drink and never had withdrawls. That said even the guys here that need them and or take them know the terrible problems they have caused some familys. My own daughter was (is because your never cured) a pain pill junky. prescription pills are the biggest drug problem in this country. It far outpaces heroin or cocaine or meth. If something helps 10 percent of the people that use it and hurts 90 percent it has to be looked at plain and simple. It today is the scourge of this country plain and simple.

Like char char I thought they were the only answer until one day I just said no more. Like him I hurt for a week or two and its slowly faded. Am I pain free? Nope. bottom line is few are and if your doing drugs to be PAIN FREE your taking to many period. At 60 years old everyone has aches and pains and in this modern world everyone wants a magic pill that makes it go away. Am I confindent the government will control it right? Hell no! What do they ever control right?? I think what needs to be done is to take every doctor that prescribes and hold them accountable. Make them fill out paper work every month that shows theres a need. Make it not so simple as a stroke of the pen to give someone wining narcotics to shut them up. give the each a quota. Ill pick 10 as an arbitrary number because every doctor in the country doesn't treat the same amount of people. tell the they are allowed to let 10 of there worse patitents have them and cut the rest off. If they get a new one that needs them badly then old number 10 gets shown the door. Or a common sense solution is pain clinics. Quit allowing gps and even surgeons to prescribe them.

I made it though my last back surgery without them. My doctor told me hes against narcotics and if I thought it was necessary he would either refer me to a different surgeon or send my case to the local pain clinic and they could decided treatment. I know some absolutely need them. My best friend cannot even get out of bed without his oxy and liquid morphine for bad days and even full of both many times goes a week or more not being able to even get out of bed. Those types need it and it shouldn't be taken away. Who even cares if there addicted. they have very little life and none without them. Terminal cancer paitents? same thing. But surgery? Ive had 6 back surgerys, an ankle repair surgery and an replacement and hip replacement, two carpal tunnel operations. Sorry to the winers but theres not a single one of them that 3 days later I couldn't get by without narcotics. Yes they made it easier but I sure didn't NEED THEM! The trap for me was after the 3 and 4 back surgery. I had them about a month apart and was just starting to heal from the first when **** in a basket happened and I was back in again. I had a surgeon and a family doctor that had no problem giving me narcotics even long term. I had 10mg oxycodone 4 times a day. I didn't take near that. If I would have id be sitting in the chair drooling. I also got liquid morphine for bad days. Now I proabably took 1/3 to 1/2 that and at the end of the month flushed the rest down the toilet and got a new script. I was afraid if I told the doc I didn't use it all that he would cut me back or cut me off. I was in the mindset of some others in that I didn't think I should suffer one bit. If I had a sore elbow, two oxys if I had a headache 2 oxys. If my back was sore from sitting at the loading bench to long, 2 oxys. Every night and every morning I had to take laxatives so I could go may once ever 3 days. I finally just said enough. I told my doctor no more. He said he was good with that and if I needed something to help me through withdrawls he would happily do it and would recommend some counseling. I never had one bit of withdrawls. if I did it was a 1/10 of the withdrawls I had quiting smoking (the only think I ever was really addicted to)

Id about bet half the people out there that take them are in the same category as me. they want them they don't NEED them. Some will say NO WAY, I'm not going to a pain doctor on top of my regular doctor. I cant afford it. Well if you really think that way your not in REAL pain. Everyone here owns a gun or two a casting setup a reloading setup ect. IF YOUR suffering REAL pain youd gladly give up a gun to have it stop. Most of us here have insurance or medicare anyway so its not like its costing you your home or pickup to go and see a pain specialist. If you are in REAL pain I would think you would gladly go see someone who specializes in it rather then your local GP who treats mostly colds and cut fingers. He might even have a treatement for you that works that doesn't require narcotics. But then that is the main thing that scares some. Having to face the fact they taken them to long. Its easier to scream pain then admit that macho you let drugs get ahold of you.

Bottom line is this is a big problem in our country and SOMETHING has to be done. Fact is its not like gun control where you have a rift between conservatives and liberals. EVERYONE wants something done about this problem. Very few familys haven't been effected adversely in one way or another. If I really felt I needed them id be making myself an appointment tommarow with the nearest pain clinic and getting my foot in the door before theres a big rush because something is going to happen. Don't be surprised though when that pain doctor wants you to try stuff that takes you out of your confort zone. LIKE EXERCISE, THEROPY, DIET ECT. Bottom line is you had better be looking at alternatives because the days of having them handed out like m&ms is fast ending.

10-x
03-25-2018, 12:07 PM
Well, just saw pain management Md that Ive had for over a year, he is a " no surgery" guy, hes quitting his group here and moving to Fl. Have seen an older MD in the group who I' ll see next, excellent guy. MRI the 11 th so neuro. surgeon will give me options. He told me that surgery will not take away ALL pain, told him fine, just get the " knife " out of my back. We will see. Been on tramidol, no problems as just need the bad pain gone, going to have some pain regardless, can deal with that. Not taking OTC pain meds, heard and seen way to many people worst off after years ot them. Addiction is a horrible problem , far to many cant face life and use drugs as a way out.
Unless you were in Vietnam and saw the GIs addicted, the stuff they did was almost pure, little green plastic vials all over the place, no metal spoons, random pee tests every month and their lives ruined and shortened. There was a low life that got his dog hooked. Kind of thing that leaves a permanite impression in one mind, never forget.

Tazman1602
03-25-2018, 12:57 PM
I think this is bad news for those of us who use opioids wisely and judiciously and in accordance with our doctor's orders.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/379049-trump-to-release-plan-addressing-opioid-epidemic-on-monday

The scariest part is that they plan to let the Feds monitor who really needs them. How would they know better than my doctor, who has years of personal experience in monitoring my pain and needs?

Well, I don't really NEED "numerous prescriptions", but since they won't give me more than a one month supply and they can't give refills, then I do need at least one prescription per month.

And I have read about the studies that show that opioids are not the best thing for long term chronic pain. I might agree with that, due to a tolerance build-up if you don't follow the directions and take breaks. But I don't have chronic pain. I have acute pain. It isn't like a burn or a sore muscle or even a big cut, where the pain is fairly constant and ongoing. It's like a midget with a knife has jumped me and is stabbing me in the leg. (vascular problems) It comes on fast and it needs to be knocked out fast, so it needs a strong, rapidly-acting drug, which currently is only available as an opioid. I don't need to take two pills of something every 8 hours, three times a day, because I don't hurt all day, and sometimes it might skip a couple of days. But when it hits, it hits hard and fast and my Percodan is the answer for it.

Beagle I feel your pain. I've had three spinal fusions over 30 years and my entire cervical spine is fused all the way up except for 1-2. Blew out a shoulder a few years back and there's so much scar tissue on my right side all you can see is white on an X-ray. I've felt like a **** drug addict since all this **** started and I'm sick to death of being treated that way and hearing about how legitimate users who NEED pain medications to function have created "the opiod epidemic" HORSE PUCKY! I'm 60 years old, I see my doctor regularly and HE KNOWS what I go through.

My wife was diagnosed five years ago with spinal stenosis and got sent to a "Pain Management Clinic" READ = QUACKS! They tried painful injections and then put her on a pain medication that worked only marginally (Gabbapentin - originally developed to deal with siezures....in DOGS..) and was also HIGHLY ADDICTIVE. I watched her go through hell to get off that ****. Now she just hurts.

KEEP DOCTORING OUT OF THE HANDS OF GOVERNMENT, PERIOD I AM WITH YOU 110%

Art

MaryB
03-25-2018, 10:16 PM
Pain meds don't make me pain free, they dull it enough that I can get moving and have a semi productive day. I haven't been pain free since I was 16 and first trashed my spine. Lived with it and dealt with it until 46 when I blew both shoulders out, carpal tunnel both sides, shredded knee cartilage, torn ACL both knees... all stuff that slowly built up over the years until it reached a crest that retired me.

snuffy
03-26-2018, 01:05 AM
I'm on Vicodin, have been for4-5 years. It was Amadol before that, for some reason the VA switched to Vicodin.

I used Ibuprofen for years before that, as soon as it became an over the counter med. IBU just did not do all I needed it to do. I had heard that excessive use could damage organs, so I asked an emergency room doc what was the max 24 hour dosage, he said 2400 MG. So I used that much in 18 hours.

All I had to do was ask my NP, (nurse practitioner), about some stronger pain meds. It was "no problemo", here ya go.

I have multiple areas of pain, both knees, neck, lower back, and left shoulder,(that's directly caused by degenerative disc disease in my neck. (As well as lower back.)

Like Mary, the drugs do NOT eliminate the pain, just make it bearable. I can't lift more than 10 pounds, or I risk severe pain in the lower back. I have never gotten "high" on Vicodin, it simply works on the pains.

I'm 72, things are just going to get worse, just when politicians want to seem like they're actually doing something . By that I mean saying they're doing something about the opiate problem. My NP is already saying I have to start tapering off the Vicodin. Just when I wanted something stronger like 10/235's. I got laughed at! I'm prescribed up to 8 5/325 Vicodin pills spaced out at every 4 hours X2. I seldom take all 8, so I'm hoarding the leftover pills for when they are forced to remove them from my script list. My "bank" should have a 6 month supply pretty soon.

My answer to my NP is ;well find me an alternative. Her first answer is therapy, well what they offer is exercise. Uh-huh, move those degenerated joints more to make them hurt worse. Or the classic, train my brain to ignore the pain, RIGHT!!! They did suggest acupuncture, which I accepted and am now going for my 5th weekly treatment. This soon after starting, the jury is still out. It doesn't hardly hurt, but it hasn't helped either.

My other therapy is Chiropractic. That has been non stop since 1973. Various chiro's have kept me straight all those years. A bad accident in 1966 left me with untreated whiplash, and a torn meniscus (while in the AF), my problems with knees and back all originated there. A so-called doctor at Travis AFB said "quit whining, get back to work".

I applaud those of you that can "deal" with your pain. Either your pain is not as severe as mine or you have an incredibly high pain tolerance. But please don't criticize us that really need opiates to control ours.

EDG
03-26-2018, 03:27 AM
There is always some know it all blow hard who thinks he knows how to deal with everyone's pain. He doesn't. If you have a family that is addiction prone don't think the rest of us are like you.

Beagle333
03-26-2018, 06:14 AM
The misconception that opioid users are walking around pain free and giddy is very common. I don't even think I could take enough opioids to be "pain free" (but I haven't tried, it would have to be well above my current dosage, if that level even exists). I do have others tell me how "nice it must be" to be on opioids and how they wish they had something that would "take away their pain" and make life blissful and happy.

Well, this isn't that magic bullet. I only get three a day on the bad days, and it sure doesn't make it pain free, it makes it so that I am not just writhing with the pain and can hobble around without streaming tears and slinging curses, and sometimes it dulls it back to a level where I can grab a little sleep. I still work a regular job for my living and I have to be functional to survive.
I suppose there's no way to explain it to those who haven't got or had real pain. It'd be like explaining color to a blind person or something similar. You'd have to be a pretty good wordsmith. Fortunately I have only had two days in the past week and a half where I needed all three that day. But it would be real misery if they weren't available and I had to just "be tough" and ride it out.
But that misconception is also what works against our case for keeping opioids available. Too many people think we want them so we can get "high".

Beagle333
03-26-2018, 06:46 AM
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17425011_1622116444470315_2001791781325964525_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=3e3e1259cda8234caacdd1f061c7b634&oe=5B2C271E

MrWolf
03-26-2018, 09:58 AM
I am on 24/7 pain meds for my back and neck. Doctors all have said surgery is not an option and I have never had a pain free day since taking pain meds. I sneezed hard three times Friday and was in the worst pain of my life until around 8:00 am Saturday morning taking and doing everything I could. Almost went to the hospital it was so bad. Spending every night on the floor again - I spent five years on the floor previously and hurt my marriage. Now I have to jump through hoops for the meds every month even being on a disability retirement with all the MRI's, etc. all because someone else is abusing. Kinda like blaming the gun for the shootings instead of the shooter.

EDG
03-26-2018, 10:15 AM
In 2010 the morons outlawed Darvocet. At that time 10 million people were taking it. I suspect that they all got shifted over to vicodin.

I would bet that Vicodin has killed way more people than did Darvocet.

I would also bet that big pharma would be happy to supply alternate non generic pain killers at much higher prices than the old generics.

Mytmousemalibu
03-26-2018, 10:19 AM
Count me into the group of the ostrascized. I have degenerative disk disease, (3 herniated disks, L5-S1 is ruptured), scoliosis, sciatica/neuropathy, arthritis and probably something im forgetting. I'm 35 now and already this deep in it so yea I rely upon pain meds and have done so the past 17yrs without problems. I don't need anyone but my doctor taking care of my health.

JBinMN
03-26-2018, 10:51 AM
I am on 24/7 pain meds for my back and neck. Doctors all have said surgery is not an option and I have never had a pain free day since taking pain meds. I sneezed hard three times Friday and was in the worst pain of my life until around 8:00 am Saturday morning taking and doing everything I could. Almost went to the hospital it was so bad. Spending every night on the floor again - I spent five years on the floor previously and hurt my marriage. Now I have to jump through hoops for the meds every month even being on a disability retirement with all the MRI's, etc. all because someone else is abusing. Kinda like blaming the gun for the shootings instead of the shooter.

Excellent analogy/comparison in Bold. IMO , of course....

David2011
03-28-2018, 01:25 AM
My heart goes out to all of you who I feel I've sort of gotten to know through your posts over the years. Six years ago I had a meniscus split. It felt (like I would actually know) like being hit by lightning. At least it hit at that speed. For the next five years I was on 6 to 8 ibuprofen every day just to keep the pain and inflammation manageable. A year ago I had a total knee replacement. I was on hydrocodone for a while afterward but haven't had any since last July and have probably not had more than two dozen ibuprofen since. I was more concerned about the years of ibuprofen than the hydrocodone but was still glad to get off of it. Your experiences make me feel very fortunate. The knee isn't perfect but I can get out in the shop and work as long as I want now without my knee hurting. The feet hurt after 8-10 hours but whose don't?

The doc said he "had to do a little extra" on my knee but won't elaborate which caused me to be on pain meds much longer than other knee replacement patients I know. His reluctance to elaborate disqualifies him from doing anything else to me in the future.

Lloyd Smale
03-28-2018, 09:18 AM
well I feel for you guys that NEED them because youd better be looking for alternatives because probably within 5 years your doctor isn't going to be able to give them to you even if he wants to. If nothing else there going to make it such a pain in the but for your doctor that he isn't going to be willing to go through all the hassle. Add to that the fact that many doctors are all for banning them. It would mean many who are on the fence about surgery and other treatment would forced to try them. Putting more money in there pockets. Bottom line is most of America today wants very stringent controls put on prescribed narcotics and the few users that really need them are going to suffer because all of the abusers.

MaryB
03-28-2018, 10:40 PM
At which point the stress and lack of sleep from being in massive pain will kill me. How to trigger a heart attack in one easy step...

And I have had pain docs tell me it is psychological. I told them to hand me an ice pick and let me ram it into their lumbar area then twist it around. Shut them up fast and got my prescription as needed. Low back for me is my major issue but shoulders some days can hurt bad enough I can barely use my arms, tonight my right wrist is swollen, I over did yesterday helping a friend build a box on his utility trailer. Screw gun triggered my carpal tunnel and they cannot do surgery again(did it twice already). Any given day it can be low back, mid back(have a ruptured disc compressing a nerve there and they cannot operate unless it threatens my life), neck, either shoulder, either wrist, either knee(right is really getting bad), either hip(nerve damage left, bone spur right that I pointed out on the xray before the doc did)...

Add in arthritis, fibromyalgia...

Mr_Sheesh
03-29-2018, 05:12 AM
I lucked out and found that Viscoux (Rooster Comb) injections really help my knees, Lidocaine helped too but the other thing they tried didn't help. Pain sucks! Almost time for another set of Rooster Comb shots. If what you've been trying doesn't work, try something different maybe, it might help :) Dr's do sometimes get a little egotistical, and need a verbal thwap between the eyes, they forget that they don't know everything!

woodbutcher
03-29-2018, 10:43 AM
:shock: Egotistical is the under statement of the milennium for doctors.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

MrWolf
03-29-2018, 10:51 AM
MaryB thorasic herniations are fun...I have six. Lucky for me the docs all say how rare it is for someone to have herniated thorasics......

jethunter
03-29-2018, 01:08 PM
I've had TWO back surgeries........and still have mild pain. Normally ibuprofen helps...but does not eradicate.....the pain. I try to be very careful of my back but on occasion I do something stupid and I NEED those pills. I have a 30 day supply that lasts me about 4 months, which shows you how few I actually take.

I understand there's an opioid problem.........but I'm not causing it and I'll be hanged if some government agency is going to make my life miserable because of someone else's abuse!

But that doesn't make any sense at all.

if criminals are the excuse liberals use to impose gun control on law abiding people, then doesn't that hold true for pain medications also?

MaryB
03-29-2018, 11:54 PM
MaryB thorasic herniations are fun...I have six. Lucky for me the docs all say how rare it is for someone to have herniated thorasics......

T10-11 for me. And there are some critical nerves through the thoracic that if pinched wrong can kill you. Standing and not moving doing a task is the worst thing I can do, feels like I have a knife between the lower end of the shoulder blades then. So tasks like doing dishes I do in small segments. I really need to get a small apartment size portable dishwasher to make life easier. Just hasn't been in the budget(they cost more than a full size!)

MrWolf
03-30-2018, 08:58 AM
Spent a night in hospital when I was 35 thinking might be heart attack. Left arm numb, banding across chest, etc.. They tried the blood gas test by sticking a needle in my wrist three times and guy couldn't get it to work. Extremely painful. Told him try it again and I am gonna knock you through that wall. Got an experienced nurse in who did it painlessly. I probably will start glowing in the dark from all the thallium stress test meds.

Tazman1602
12-10-2018, 05:05 PM
.......people who aren't spring chickens anymore or have had multiple invasive spinal surgeries or otherwise. A bit lengthy but worth every word. Keep writing your Representatives. First article I've read that makes a lick of sense you morons in Congress. A small excerpt:

"Political leaders and government officials often failed to note the bulk -- at least 60 percent, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services -- of the overdose epidemic was caused by illicit drugs, not prescription painkillers."


https://www.foxnews.com/health/as-opioids-become-taboo-doctors-taper-down-or-abandon-pain-patients-driving-many-to-suicide


Want to really screw something up? Put it in the hands of the Federal Government. Now I know why a group of Baboons is called a "Congress"

Spread the word, keep the faith.....

gwpercle
12-10-2018, 05:21 PM
They claim the next new addiction...Legalized Marijuana ...will make you feel totally pain free , If you smoke enough of it .

frkelly74
12-10-2018, 05:54 PM
A friend of ours was complaining about how her doctor was no longer able to prescribe her pain med and she is scrambling to find a new doctor who is allowed to perscribe it. I quipped, (I know I shouldn't have because I know she is truly miserable, but I did any way,) " why don't you get them to give you some Marijuana instead of opioids". And don't you know that Is exactly what happened at her next visit. The doctor offered it to her in a form called CBD or something like that.

Wheelguns 1961
12-10-2018, 06:39 PM
They need to come up with a non- addictive pain reliever that works. I just had a pretty extensive spine operation. I could barely make it to the bathroom because of the pain. The only thing they would give me was ibuprofen. The surgeon would not even write a referral for pain management. So I finally get my surgery and now they are willing to give me something. So far I am lucky and don’t need it. It is like you have to have surgery before they believe you. I guess if they screw up your surgery, then they believe you are in pain. They gave me about 3 days of pain medicine after the surgery and none before. I think the drug companies make too much money off the opiods, and that is the reason why they don’t come up with something new. Sorry,rant over.

Battis
12-10-2018, 07:12 PM
All I wanted was a few Percocet, maybe 2 a week, for radiation damage and damage from a back surgery gone wrong that always hit me in the middle of the night. I just wanted to get some sleep. My Dr said OK for awhile, then no more. He sent me to a pain clinic. They said they'd give me a few a week but here's the catch - once a month they do a blood test and if they don't find the drug in my system, they'd cut me off, assuming that I was selling the stuff. So, if I had a good week and didn't need it, and they blood tested me, I'd be screwed.
I had heard good things about melatonin so I gave it a try. The max dose is 10 mgs a day. From the first night, with only 1 mg, then 2, and now 3 mgs at bedtime, I sleep like a drunk baby. And there's no hangover the next day. All I can say is, it's worth a try.

bdicki
12-10-2018, 07:38 PM
I have lots of back problems and pain. I can't take NSAIDs because I am on a blood thinner. I can't take Tylenol because I am on Methotrexate and It will kill my liver. The only thing that I could take was percocet. It worked to dull the pain. They have now made it almost impossible to get. I have had to add 2 more blood pressure meds and double my glyburide because the pain drove up my BP and blood glucose so much. Punish those that sell these drugs illegally, not those that need them.

Tylenol is the best known over-the-counter (OTC) acetaminophen product.

Drug Description
PERCOCET®
(oxycodone and acetaminophen) Tablets, USP

WARNING
Hepatotoxicity
Acetaminophen has been associated with cases of acute liver failure, at times resulting in liver transplant and death. Most of the cases of liver injury are associated with the use of acetaminophen at doses that exceed 4000 milligrams per day, and often involve more than one acetaminophen-containing product.
DESCRIPTION
Each tablet, for oral administration, contains oxycodone hydrochloride and acetaminophen in the following strengths:
Oxycodone Hydrochloride, USP 2.5 mg*
Acetaminophen, USP 325 mg
*2.5 mg oxycodone HCl is equivalent to 2.2409 mg of oxycodone.

Oxycodone Hydrochloride, USP 5 mg*
Acetaminophen, USP 325 mg
*5 mg oxycodone HCl is equivalent to 4.4815 mg of oxycodone.

Oxycodone Hydrochloride, USP 7.5 mg*
Acetaminophen, USP 325 mg
*7.5 mg oxycodone HCl is equivalent to 6.7228 mg of oxycodone.

Oxycodone Hydrochloride, USP 10 mg*
Acetaminophen, USP 325 mg
*10 mg oxycodone HCl is equivalent to 8.9637 mg of oxycodone.

shooter93
12-10-2018, 08:29 PM
I take Percocet 10/325 every 4 hours. It doesn't get rid of the pain but it helps make it manageable. I fully understand people like Mary. I have had multiple back surgeries and have severe Arthritis. I'm still working after 50 years in the building trades. The drug doesn't bother me a bit as to side effects or make me "high" I was offered to try medicinal marijuana but it doesn't relieve this kind of pain and as I said I have to be alert in this job. I have had all manner of injections etc. to little relief and still get them hoping. I have been through all the physical therapy with no help. I have a good primary doctor and a good pain management outfit. Both have come to the realization that the first doctor who saw me was right when he told me....... I would never know a pain free day the rest of my life. I am too messed up inside and it can't be fixed. Your damage is mostly from very hard work for way too long. He did say he would do his best to manage the pain for me and that I would never be "addicted" to the medication. For people like you it works on the pain and you don't get a "buzz" I never do. Some people do need pain medications......it is as simple as that.

JBinMN
12-10-2018, 08:45 PM
Keep in mind for those that use "Prescribed" medications for pain , that the Fed. Gooberment still will not allow those who are taking anything that involves Cannabis/Marijuana to purchase firearms. When you fill out the ATF form 4473, line # 11 (e), if you tell the truth, and are using any sort of Cannibis/Marijuana you will no longer be able to legally purchase firearms, even if your state says it is legal in their jurisdiction.

See for yourself:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

While the use of prescribed medicines such as narcotics that are "prescribed" by an MD are a "lawful" use by Fed. Law. The use of marijuana is NOT LEGAL, regardless of it being "legalized" by any state.

As far as the Feds are concerned , you use Cannabis/Marijuana, you are, as far as the Fed gooberment is concerned, a Federally "Unlawful user" & are prohibited from buying a firearm. If you are dishonest and are caught being a "State legal user" ( addicted or not), you will be in just as much trouble for lying on the form about your use of a Federally " Illegal" & "Controlled Substance", as if you were not prescribed that substance.

Once someone has a state licensed MD prescribe the use of Cannabis/Marijuana, ( and even if issued a "card"
by your state saying you are legal), you cannot state on the form that you are not an unlawful user as per the Federal Gooberment.

I am not sure I said it in the correct "legal" manner, but do not allow yourself to be caught in a legal "loophole" that makes you no longer eligible to Buy ( or possibly own) firearm arms.

I am not gonna argue this with anyone. Do your own research. But I will say that even if an MD offered Cannabis/Marijuana as a substitute for any other prescribed medicine to treat pain, I would not take that prescription. You can make your own choices about that. Of course.

Just be aware.

Texas by God
12-10-2018, 08:46 PM
Legalize Marijuana Now.
There, I said it. I watched my mother turn into a pain meds junkie thanks to doctors and opioids. She went from my loving Mom to a mean, calendar watching, driving herself to the ER in the wee hrs for pain meds person. By the time COPD claimed her, we were ready for God to take her Home.
Maybe I'm extra bitter as I write this because I have to take my brother off of life support tomorrow. Sorry for the rant; please pray for me, too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

snowwolfe
12-10-2018, 11:00 PM
GhostHawk, you are not that far from the border, Tylenol 3 can be bought at any drugstore in Canada, the last time I bought any, no prescription, iirc you can bring 2 bottles back and you can buy the 100 pill bottles. I can't take them because of my proffession, but I have picked them up for others several times.

Be careful what you post, and what you do. If the Tylenol 3 you are bringing back into the USA contains codeine and you dont have a prescription in your name you are committing a felony.

crankycalico
12-11-2018, 12:57 AM
If your on a chemically created opiod that is stronger then say heroin, how da hell do you expect pot to magically work on your pain?

Kind of like putting a 3 cylinder 35 horse diesel engine in a Formula 1 car..

Wheelguns 1961
12-11-2018, 01:50 AM
I smoked pot when I was younger. I never got any pain relief from it. I was in a bad car accident in my 20’s when I smoked it, but it never helped with pain. Unless they give it to you in some kind of concentrated pill form, I can’t imagine it helping. I really don’t know how they prescribe it for pain. I must be missing something.

crankycalico
12-11-2018, 03:15 AM
your missing a lot, a lot actually. The "pain" component came about as a way to mainstream pot. You know that not everyone with a handicap liscence plate is handicapped? I know many people with "tennis elbow" or "tennis knee" that have a handicap plate on their f250 or super duty

There be two components in pot that makes it do things, THC is the "happy chemical" while the "medical chemical" has nothing to do with getting happy, and its been proven that more thc means LESS medical chemical in it,,, so the pot shops are selling the hyper THC for "pain control" doesn't jive with science.

Wheelguns 1961
12-11-2018, 02:25 PM
Thanks for the enlightenment cranky calico.

Texas by God
12-11-2018, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the enlightenment cranky calico.Yep. Came in hot, 21 posts in 24 hrs. You're off to a great start, DR. CC.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

MaryB
12-11-2018, 09:21 PM
I have written my congress idiots, I get the form letter back that we have to do something... no you don't HAVE to do something that is not based in science. I am fighting with my doc now to get enough percocet for breakthrough pain in the middle of the night. And now only getting 4-5 hours of sleep a night because pain wakes me up... and being in pain I do less, move less and that leads to more pain... vicious circle that is driving people to suicide(No not me I am to stubborn for that, others I know online)...

crankycalico
12-12-2018, 02:39 AM
I have written my congress idiots, I get the form letter back that we have to do something... no you don't HAVE to do something that is not based in science. I am fighting with my doc now to get enough percocet for breakthrough pain in the middle of the night. And now only getting 4-5 hours of sleep a night because pain wakes me up... and being in pain I do less, move less and that leads to more pain... vicious circle that is driving people to suicide(No not me I am to stubborn for that, others I know online)...

The REALLY sad part is that you can probably get all the Percocet you want on a street corner in say Chicago or Los Angeles, but you cant get it legally through a doctor. But yet to "solve" the problem of illegal drugs, LEGAL users have to suffer.

The attempt is to stop over prescription, sad part is people can get it anytime they want if its NOT needed. I had to have my wisdom teeth out, the stupid DENTIST gave me a prescription for 100 Tylenol #3 with codeine. didn't ask, simply CALLED IT IN TO MY PHARMACY. It was really really hard to comprehend why I would need a 1 month supply for wisdom teeth, but its like that for a lot of non existent pain.

Had a coworker pinch something in his back, his doctor thought a morphine shot in the office and a Tylenol 3 prescription was the only thing needed, didn't even want to do an xray to see what was actually wrong with co worker.

Lloyd Smale
12-12-2018, 08:02 AM
no doubt some need them and a good many could get by just fine without them. I lived on them for 5 years. I pretty much wasted 5 years of my life. I had pain. theres no doubt about it. But those pills took as much quality of life away from me as the pain did. Then add to that my wife went in for surgery and was given some and she got to liking them way to much way to fast and after they told her no more she started stealing mine and ended up having to go and dry out. Lucky for me they never got ahold of me like her. Same with alcohol. I drank like a fish when I was young but never HAD to have it.

Theres absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is a prescription drug problem in this country and a crack down is needed. When I took them my doctor about gave me an unlimited supply. Handed them out like m&ms. You kind of get into a mode when you have that many to take them everytime your even a bit sore. What I found when I stopped is that for me anyway they really didn't stop the pain. It was still there. What I did for me was allow me to sit in a chair half way comfortably drooling. Sat so much that it compounded my problems and I just got worse.

Do I think they should be banned? Heck no theres people that really do need them but truth be told its probably 5-10 percent of the people the doctors handed them out to. Why wouldn't they. Your hurting so you go to the doctor. He gives you a bunch of oxy and it helps your pain. You then think hes a good doctor because he helped you when in fact your problem might have been fixed by surgery and you ended up a junky instead. Heck the first doctor that prescribed them to me lost his license and practice for writing scrips for his friends to get pills for himself because he was an addict. Add to that the fact that 1000s of those pills that are prescribed end up on the street.

Should they be banned altogether. NO. At least not until a viable replace is found for the people that REALLY NEED THEM. But youd have to be blind or stupid to think that this is not a problem in this country and way to many are prescribed to people who could get along just fine without them. America has gotten soft. They want to be able to pill away any discomfort God gives them. Have some anxiety pill it away, day going bad pill it away. You have a boo boo pill it away. Half the country takes pills to numb them from the real world.

Some real common sense laws need to be passed that do control who and who is not in need of them and how much they really need. Someone like mary might need them every day but shes a small percentage of those that do and really need to. My last surgery was a back surgery. past surgerys I would take them for months. this time I said no. I told the doctor I didn't want ANY. He said that he didn't think it was a good idea and that I really should take them for at least a week so that I could at least move around and exercise instead of laying in bed. I took them for 3 days. Did I need them. YOU BET I DID. I ate crow because I forgot how painful recovery can be. Was the pain gone in 3 days. HECK NO. but it was bearable and the edge could bet taken off with non narcotic prescription pills. But like my wife said that's just me and I cant judge others by my tolerance to pain.

I think what this shake up will accomplish is forcing drug companys that sure want to sell something to come up with a safer replacement for narcotics. Will it be totally safe? Probably not but it sure cant be a lot worse then the problems narcotics have cost us. the big question is will our government address this correctly. Pharmaceutical companys are one of the biggest lobbyist in this country and have way to much sway over our law makers. If you are one of those 5 percent that is being hurt by this crackdown I do feel sorry for you. I hope common sense laws are put in place that don't add to your pain. But bottom line is its hurting the other 95 percent of us be it by making new addicts, kids dying off of pills and patches that make it to the street or even by people going to rehab that have no insurance or are on medicade that us as tax payers have to foot the bill for. Remember too that at least for now nobody is trying to ban them totally, at least not with any success. What people want is more control and scrutinization of who there given too and how much is given. Is that a bad thing? Maybe if your a junky or are one of those that pill away everything. But if you really need them raise your hand here if they have been taken away.


The REALLY sad part is that you can probably get all the Percocet you want on a street corner in say Chicago or Los Angeles, but you cant get it legally through a doctor. But yet to "solve" the problem of illegal drugs, LEGAL users have to suffer. News flash those pills there buying on the street corner didn't come from those dealers having access to the drug manufactures they came from either drugs that came into this country illegally or from people selling narcotics that were prescribed to them. Up here in this very rural area id about bet that 90 percent of them could be traced back to a doctors script.


The attempt is to stop over prescription, sad part is people can get it anytime they want if its NOT needed. I had to have my wisdom teeth out, the stupid DENTIST gave me a prescription for 100 Tylenol #3 with codeine. didn't ask, simply CALLED IT IN TO MY PHARMACY. It was really really hard to comprehend why I would need a 1 month supply for wisdom teeth, but its like that for a lot of non existent pain. In the past that was the norm and is why we have a problem so big today. This is what needs to be stopped. When I had a prescription it was for 10mg oxycodone 4 times a day and got them a 120 at a time and every month was given a script for a 6oz bottle of liquid morphine for when it got real bad. I was told even if I didn't take it all to keep refilling the prescription because if I didn't it would show I didn't need it all and it would be harder to justify getting more. So every month I flushed about half of it down the toilet. Now take someone that is struggling to feed there family and has legit pain and give them the same. What do you think there going to do with those 60 left overs that are worth over 10 bucks a crack on the street.

MrWolf
12-12-2018, 10:55 AM
I have written my congress idiots, I get the form letter back that we have to do something... no you don't HAVE to do something that is not based in science. I am fighting with my doc now to get enough percocet for breakthrough pain in the middle of the night. And now only getting 4-5 hours of sleep a night because pain wakes me up... and being in pain I do less, move less and that leads to more pain... vicious circle that is driving people to suicide(No not me I am to stubborn for that, others I know online)...

I went to my Pain Management place that I am required to go to every month as I am on 24/7 pain meds. I am up every hour or two due to pain. They call it insomnia. I have some nights that are so bad you want to scream every ten minutes for the entire night. I asked for something to knock me out for a bit. They refused saying since I live alone there wasn't anyone to monitor me and gave me a limited supply of pain meds I already have. They also called them breakout pills. For those that think it easy, just cut back on everyone's meds, who gets to decide who is really hurting? Doctors? One says you need them another says take an ibuprofen.

MaryB
12-12-2018, 06:59 PM
I went to my Pain Management place that I am required to go to every month as I am on 24/7 pain meds. I am up every hour or two due to pain. They call it insomnia. I have some nights that are so bad you want to scream every ten minutes for the entire night. I asked for something to knock me out for a bit. They refused saying since I live alone there wasn't anyone to monitor me and gave me a limited supply of pain meds I already have. They also called them breakout pills. For those that think it easy, just cut back on everyone's meds, who gets to decide who is really hurting? Doctors? One says you need them another says take an ibuprofen.

I feel your pain! I am up every 2 hours, have to get up and walk to get my back to stop screaming. My best description is let me jab an icepick in your lower spine then twist it around hitting your leg nerves randomly. And that is WITH the pain meds... and I can't take an extra at night anymore because the forced my doc to cut my percocet script in half. So my pain level is way up, I sleep less, I get less done during the day so my back acts up more form inactivity... it is a vicious circle that makes life miserable.

And I never abused them, I take the bare minimum to get by but now I no longer have the choice of taking extra if I need it... I used to be able to take up to 6 percocet a day, generally stayed around 3 unless i was doing a lot of heavy lifting or garden stooping then would take 1-2 extra to knock the pain back to bearable. As I type this my pain level is spiking to a 10... and my 10 would have most people screaming for morphine...

DEA is busting docs for prescribing "to many" pills. "To Many" is decided by some bureaucrat who doesn't live in constant pain. By some idiot who thinks they need to step into my relationship with my doctor and screw it up... the federal government should have NO SAY in how a patient is treated. Train docs better to spot addiction and misuse!

JBinMN
12-12-2018, 07:12 PM
DEA is busting docs for prescribing "to many" pills. "To Many" is decided by some bureaucrat who doesn't live in constant pain. By some idiot who thinks they need to step into my relationship with my doctor and screw it up... the federal government should have NO SAY in how a patient is treated. Train docs better to spot addiction and misuse!

You can thank/blame the Obamination & his socialist Demoncraps, et al., + insurance companies for that bureaucratic mess. The ACA{"ObamaCare"} was a scam & just made things worse than before so others can make $$ & the Gooberment gets involved & messes things up even worse...

Then the Republi"cants" don't figure out what to do when they have the chance to change things & get rid of that ACA/Obamycare mess... { AFTER running on repealing the ACA mess & no one seems to remember that!!!}

It isn't gonna get any better until someone has the "intestinal fortitude" to change things & the current guy who is trying, is getting his chops busted every day trying to make things better. A little cooperation instead of backstabbing by the Republicants would help out a lot if some of them would grow a spine & work to make things better as well...

Off my soap box now, since most of ya know how I think about such things. It just makes me even more ticked off when I think of such things...

WheelgunConvert
12-12-2018, 07:59 PM
New report released today.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-12-fentanyl-opioid-od-killer.html

Top killer at 37% fentenyl
Next is heroine at 32%
Third is hydrocodone

I’m sure you have seen the mega fent busts over the past few years. Almost all was smuggled in from another country. Heroine is a given as already unlawful. Those 2 account for almost 70% of the deaths.

Know where the problem is before trying to fix it. Still want open boarders?

YMMV

shooter93
12-12-2018, 08:34 PM
I haven't slept more than two hours straight in decades. It's no fun for sure but it has become my life. I'll deal with it. I am even looking into another surgery that would hopefully allow me to manage this better and use less meds. Imagine actually looking forward to another surgery. It's nuts but with continuous pain it would be nice if it would stop for a while. I am lucky in that the dose I take doesn't bother me a bit. I never get a "buzz" or anything like that. It simply helps with the pain so I can do my work. Retirement scares the heck out of me even though I am well past the retirement age.
On another note.....a good friend of mine's mother has extreme pain. She is 93 years old and they don't want to give her pain meds because of a "possible" addiction. OK....first off it is only "possible" and at 93 do you really care? Allow her few remaining years to be in comfort.

Recluse
12-25-2018, 10:18 PM
well I feel for you guys that NEED them because youd better be looking for alternatives because probably within 5 years your doctor isn't going to be able to give them to you even if he wants to. If nothing else there going to make it such a pain in the but for your doctor that he isn't going to be willing to go through all the hassle. Add to that the fact that many doctors are all for banning them. It would mean many who are on the fence about surgery and other treatment would forced to try them. Putting more money in there pockets. Bottom line is most of America today wants very stringent controls put on prescribed narcotics and the few users that really need them are going to suffer because all of the abusers.

Lloyd brings up a couple of very good points here that I've emphasized in bold.

The same thing can be said regarding many styles of semi-automatic firearms, and if you look closer into those doctors who bloviate about there "being no need for so many opiods" in the pharmacy cabinet, those same bastions of health are also for banning or heavily restricting/regulating private gun ownership. They also think flying small airplanes is dangerous, that motorcyclists should have to pay exorbitant insurance premiums, etc etc.

The only thing that people like these doctors and so-called "concerned citizens" DON'T seem to have a problem with is when people like those of us who signed up and served go off to battle to defend their cozy, comfortable lifestyles here at home.

It's called freedom.

If someone wants to take prescription opioids until they are a veritable junkie, so what? Let family intercede if it's bad enough. Don't make your family members' problems MY problems. In our family, we take care of our own. We don't run to the gov't demanding that everyone else's access to guns or Tylenol 3 or motorcycles be further regulated or restricted because we couldn't manage a rogue or problematic family member. And I don't want other families running to Uncle Sugar Daddy demanding more regulations for inanimate objects or legal prescriptions that have benefits for my own family members.

We already have laws in place for bad doctors, doctor-shopping junkies, drug dealers, those who misuse/abuse firearms, etc. What we don't have is fair, swift and effective PUNISHMENT for those who break those laws.

When we, as a nation, start uniformly demanding harsh, swift punishment for our lawbreakers, then and only then will I even begin to entertain any thoughts of further regulating any inanimate objects or legal chemicals that I may encounter or partake of as part of the deal that comes from being a citizen in a nation that is supposed to be the Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free.

:coffee:

GhostHawk
12-26-2018, 10:54 AM
Well my wife is Codine free after some 25-30 years.

Gabbypentonal or some similar non opiod drug is what they put her on.

Does not work as well, has a few more side effects.

But she was able to taper off the codine with no real ill effects.

It seriously helped that she retired. did not have to go into work hurting.

Just letting her take life at her own pace, lots of sit downs helps.

Best of luck to all of you who are still struggling.

Tazman1602
12-26-2018, 11:05 AM
Well my wife is Codine free after some 25-30 years.

Gabbypentonal or some similar non opiod drug is what they put her on.

Does not work as well, has a few more side effects.

But she was able to taper off the codine with no real ill effects.

It seriously helped that she retired. did not have to go into work hurting.

Just letting her take life at her own pace, lots of sit downs helps.

Best of luck to all of you who are still struggling.

BE CAREFUL with Gabbapentin! Originally developed to help seizures in DOGS. Docs had my wife on it for months -- didn't work very well and watching her taper off of it broke my heart, VERY bad Joneses for her when she decided to stop it.

This "opioid epidemic" is totally manufactured. Hydrocodone works, the people who NEED it are not the problem as they rarely abuse it. CDC states 60% of the OD's and abuses are due to street level synthetic fentanyl and the whole thing is already causing suicides etc for those who need pain meds the worst. Inhumane treatment of patients to say the least.

Go into hospital for major surgery and get sent home with ibuprofen???? It's happened, it's happening, and will continue to happen unless enough of us keep writing representatives......

Just saying.....

Art

Mr_Sheesh
12-26-2018, 05:46 PM
Agreed on Gabapentin, for my family it seems to be good at making our brains just stop - as in, stop being able to think - Become unable to do higher brain functions at all, so badly that we know something's wrong but can't put it into words. Not everyone has this reaction, but if "something's wrong" and she can't do things she used to be able to do, it could be that.

MaryB
12-26-2018, 07:56 PM
Lyrica is a better choice than gabapentin. It is a more refined version of it with fewer side effects. But stopping it really really sucks... I had to go off it for a week due to trying another med... 5 days feeling like I was going to puke my guts up...

shooter93
12-26-2018, 08:07 PM
For me the pain meds allow me some kind of useful life. I have no desire to retire even though I am well beyond retirement age I just have a great deal of pain. I have never suffered a side effect from them and never got a "buzz" They simply help me manage the pain and function as best as I can. I have tried everything the doctors recommended and nothing seems to help. I have one last surgical option which I may try. The only people who will suffer pain from a "crack down" will be the people who need the meds. I have yet to find a person suffering with chronic real pain who abuses the meds. It is hard to explain to some people what a constant nasty aching for 24 hours a day 7 days a week is like and it goes from that to a severe pain that wakes you every night and you pace the floor until exhausted.

Char-Gar
12-27-2018, 02:51 PM
I have been a watcher of American society for a very long time. There is a cycle that runs like this. 1) Something bad happens and the media reports it over and over and over again until the public is all spun up. 2)They put pressure on their government to pass a law and stop the bad stuff. 3) The government bends to the pressure and passes such a law. 4) This law has serious blow back and unintended consequences and people suffer.

Nobody thinks this stuff through, not the public, not the politicans, nobody. We are a society that is run on emotion and ignorance and that costs lives and inflicts all kinds of suffering. This many involve guns, drugs or just about anything else.

Recluse
12-27-2018, 06:54 PM
I have been a watcher of American society for a very long time. There is a cycle that runs like this. 1) Something bad happens and the media reports it over and over and over again until the public is all spun up. 2)They put pressure on their government to pass a law and stop the bad stuff. 3) The government bends to the pressure and passes such a law. 4) This law has serious blow back and unintended consequences and people suffer.

Nobody thinks this stuff through, not the public, not the politicans, nobody. We are a society that is run on emotion and ignorance and that costs lives and inflicts all kinds of suffering. This many involve guns, drugs or just about anything else.

This is what happens when society becomes reactive rather than proactive.

I grew up in a time in which we were reactive to criminals by way of being proactive about ensuring we had enough prison cells, enough tough judges and enough cotton fields that needed hoeing by the chain gangs. Now the snowflakes are reactive to the "unfair plight of the historically disadvantaged."

I grew up in a time in which medical researchers were proactive in studying and seeking vaccines and cures and preventive measures for killers like small pox, polio, etc. Now the Medical Cartel is more interested in developing new psychotropic drugs then hiring huge ad agencies to "create the problem that their new wonder pill treats" all while ignoring the basic ills of an aging society such as arthritis, chronic pain, prostrate and breast cancer. Can't be bothered by us baby boomers and old folks. Got a whole new generation of millennials and their professional victim statuses to exploit.

:coffee:

salpal48
12-27-2018, 07:22 PM
all doctors get perks from There Drug Industries Reps to push there products. Yes perks. trips, incentives and alike. Don't call them Bribes . there Industry perks. just like Referrals. Frankly they get a kick back from other helpful Md's for Referring a patient To them.
There not giving Them $10 Bucks. They Get big Bucks For referring test after test . which Your Insurance pays for. This is a big buck perk system.
If you think not. reconsider it. Big Big Bucks. do you Think he is seeing You for a $15.00 Co pay don't be a Fool. Same with The Pill he prescribes Big Bucks

JBinMN
12-27-2018, 08:29 PM
This is what happens when society becomes reactive rather than proactive.

I grew up in a time in which we were reactive to criminals by way of being proactive about ensuring we had enough prison cells, enough tough judges and enough cotton fields that needed hoeing by the chain gangs. Now the snowflakes are reactive to the "unfair plight of the historically disadvantaged."

I grew up in a time in which medical researchers were proactive in studying and seeking vaccines and cures and preventive measures for killers like small pox, polio, etc. Now the Medical Cartel is more interested in developing new psychotropic drugs then hiring huge ad agencies to "create the problem that their new wonder pill treats" all while ignoring the basic ills of an aging society such as arthritis, chronic pain, prostrate and breast cancer. Can't be bothered by us baby boomers and old folks. Got a whole new generation of millennials and their professional victim statuses to exploit.

:coffee:

Yup.. I am in this ^ camp...

white eagle
12-27-2018, 10:09 PM
if it weren't for my surgeries I would not need pain meds
but as a result of my bodies reaction to metal implants I
am in pain as a result but only when I stand or walk
and as another benefit from years of heavy lifting my back
has a degenerative disease (forget the formal name) and that
rears its ugly head when I am not walking or standing mostly
lying in bed or sitting

GhostHawk
12-27-2018, 10:18 PM
Well partly as a result of this thread my wife is switching from the Gabby to a new drug.

We can only hope it is better. Turned out some research showed she was suffereing from a majority of the listed side effects, including loss of balance, forgetting words, short term memory loss, etc.

Time will tell from here.

Thanks all for the help to at least make us dig into it and think about making a change.

Tracy
12-28-2018, 09:07 AM
I think this is bad news for those of us who use opioids wisely and judiciously and in accordance with our doctor's orders.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/379049-trump-to-release-plan-addressing-opioid-epidemic-on-monday

The scariest part is that they plan to let the Feds monitor who really needs them. How would they know better than my doctor, who has years of personal experience in monitoring my pain and needs?

Well, I don't really NEED "numerous prescriptions", but since they won't give me more than a one month supply and they can't give refills, then I do need at least one prescription per month.

And I have read about the studies that show that opioids are not the best thing for long term chronic pain. I might agree with that, due to a tolerance build-up if you don't follow the directions and take breaks. But I don't have chronic pain. I have acute pain. It isn't like a burn or a sore muscle or even a big cut, where the pain is fairly constant and ongoing. It's like a midget with a knife has jumped me and is stabbing me in the leg. (vascular problems) It comes on fast and it needs to be knocked out fast, so it needs a strong, rapidly-acting drug, which currently is only available as an opioid. I don't need to take two pills of something every 8 hours, three times a day, because I don't hurt all day, and sometimes it might skip a couple of days. But when it hits, it hits hard and fast and my Percodan is the answer for it.

I agree. I'm always hearing about the "opioid crisis," but based on a few things I have observed I think that crisis has been artificially created by the DEA and the states by making it more difficult for people to get the pain meds they need.

GhostHawk
12-28-2018, 09:53 AM
Opiod Crisis is 99% in the big cities, and they are going to have troubles no matter WHAT you perscribe. Cause if they can't get it from established medicine they'll get coke, crack, Herion from the drug dealer on the corner.

Get out of the big cities and there IS no opiod crisis. There is just policy makers screwing up people's lives.

snowwolfe
12-28-2018, 05:41 PM
Opiod Crisis is 99% in the big cities, and they are going to have troubles no matter WHAT you perscribe. Cause if they can't get it from established medicine they'll get coke, crack, Herion from the drug dealer on the corner.

Get out of the big cities and there IS no opiod crisis. There is just policy makers screwing up people's lives.

You can't be serious? Some of the biggest issues with opioid issues are in rural areas. Just ask people who live in WV, TN, etc.

MaryB
12-28-2018, 07:14 PM
Rural is more meth than opioids...

Rick N Bama
12-28-2018, 08:07 PM
Mary my wife was on Lyrica for Fibromyalgia for 2 or 3 years. While on it she couldn't keep her mind on the task at hand and came close to burning the house down on more than one occasion. It was a proud day in our lives when she decided to go off of it.

Lloyd Smale
12-29-2018, 06:23 AM
have to agree. If you think your child is safe because you live on a country road or a small town you've got a set of blinders on. If you think theres not opiate crisis in this country then I think you've been hitting the crack pipe a bit to much yourself. Drug abuse isn't just a young persons problem and its not just a big city problem a problem that effects just welfare bums or just a black problem you might want to turn you local news on some night. It has hit familys everywhere at every income level. Opiate addiction has effected my own family and it was an adult and they lived in a town of about 1500 people in one of the most rural areas in the country. It was responsible for a family member loosing there home, job and 2 kids. Luckily that family member got clean and its been over 2 years now buy they will never get back what they lost and it all started with an operation and a perfectly legal prescription. Because a drunk driver never killed one of your family members doesn't mean drunk driving is some fabricated problem to take your beer away.
You can't be serious? Some of the biggest issues with opioid issues are in rural areas. Just ask people who live in WV, TN, etc.

Thundarstick
12-29-2018, 10:44 AM
I would also mention that this whole opioid crisis is nothing new. Is been going on for literally centuries.
I'll share a story about a time in my life, a short time, maby twenty minutes in all of my time. I was in my late teens helping my Grandfather on his farm one day. We where in the process of selling off his feeder steers and it took about an hour between loads for the transport to make a trip for the each load. While we where waiting between loading we talked about many things. He was leaning on the fence looking out over the farm, when he asked, "did I ever tell you how I got this farm? ". I had no idea, so he told me the story. It seems there was a farmer there before him worse wife was a school teacher, but that she was addicted to Laudanum. (An interesting read https://museumofhealthcare.wordpress.com/2015/07/20/laudanum-freedom-from-pain-for-the-price-of-addiction/ on it in a historical setting) Because of her addiction she eventually became unable to work,then her husband spent the farm into foreclosure trying to keep her supplied with drugs, and the farm was auctioned. This is the same story more families than could ever count could tell. About the losses that go with the addiction, or even the treatment. I posted back when this thread started and have followed it all along, still with no answers, no solutions. One thing remains, there is no other drug known to man to release suffers from pain like opioids, but the price of addiction and ruin are still a reality for many users, if prescribed by a MD or bought on the street.

MrWolf
12-29-2018, 11:16 AM
You can't be serious? Some of the biggest issues with opioid issues are in rural areas. Just ask people who live in WV, TN, etc.

Because of this whether it is real or perceived when I moved out here almost two years ago it was quite a shock with the hoops I have to jump through each month for the same prescription I had in NJ.