Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets

[BHuij]

I went to Veral's site and followed his instructions to order the book - printed a copy of his order form, filled it out completely, enclosed payment, and mailed it off to him. This was over 2 weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep. I'm in Utah, so it's not like this was a long journey for the envelope to make.

Is there any way to contact him about this and follow up on my order?

[Hickory]

There could be a lot of explanation for the delay.
1) He might be on vacation.
2) He might be sick.
3) He might be dead.
4) From time to time the post office will lose mail.
5) Indians might have killed the pony rider.
6) Global warming could have its evil hand in this.

It's hard to tell.

[Nines&Twos]

Veral is old and well past the don’t give a poop stage.
Be patient. If he’s still alive, he’ll get it to you.

He is a great mold maker and very knowledgeable about the process but prone to wild swings of enthusiasm.
I’ve always found it funny how much of his book gets regurgitated as new revelations across the web and various forums.

[Rcmaveric]

I want to read that book. I keep meaning to place an order.

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[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I would recommend waiting a couple more weeks before worrying and/or calling/emailing.
Porthos' order took a month.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?354340-Lbt

[Tom_in_AZ]

What’s the website?


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[Rcmaveric]

http://www.lbtmolds.com/

[Nines&Twos]

I wonder if he'd pitch a fit if someone just scanned the book and posted it here?

[Rcmaveric]

With out permission from the author i would imagine so. Could also make a bit of legal trouble for who ever did it. Its illegal to share copy righted material, but its not illegal (depending on where you are) to partake of the shared media. But i am sure there are a lot of people that have amassed a digital collection of books (i will use my 5th Amendment about what i have found on google). I would happily send him money for a digital version though if he okayed it.

[BHuij]

Honestly I think I will scan his book when it arrives (for personal use) just so I can read it on my Kindle if necessary. Having only a single hard copy on flimsy paper seems like a good way to lose that information at some future point.

[BHuij]

Okay... so we're up to well over a month now. Veral Smith may be a genius mold maker, bullet caster, and alloy specialist. But I am not impressed with his ordering system or his responsiveness. I realize $31 isn't a whole lot of money to get upset about, but just taking my money and ignoring me is really a low thing to do. He has my email address, it's on the order form. He could at least drop a line saying "yep, got your payment, I'll get around to mailing your book out sometime."

[solman]

I have recently ordered some push through slugs from him. I contacted him after a few weeks to inquire about the delay. He responded after a few days and asked that I be patient as he is backed up. I did get it in the mail after a few more weeks. No big deal I guess he has his own schedule and priorities. I ordered his lead hardness tester and got it after a week. I guess he has those ready to ship. maybe the book needs to be printed up batch of copies as he is out.

[gwpercle]

Honestly I think I will scan his book when it arrives (for personal use) just so I can read it on my Kindle if necessary. Having only a single hard copy on flimsy paper seems like a good way to lose that information at some future point.

And I always thought having something in a digital format was a good way to loose it...my cell phone/kindle/computer crashed and I lost everything...how many times have I heard that !
I've got a lot of flimsy paper books that date back to the 1930's...still readable and haven't lost them.
I guess it depends on when you were born as to what method seems best. I was born BC (Before Computers).
Gary

[zymguy]

flimsy papper and digital. Go belt and susspenders, also its never gone if you save it in the cloud ;)

[Rcmaveric]

I keep everything in writting and digital. So many backups that it would take an apocalypse for me to loose everything. Pluss its nice to have my books avaialble for me to read when ever i want on my phone. Keeps my work area cleaner because i just pull out my tablet. Its hard to sneak those books to work to read.

Research is easier with pencil and books. Then it all gets typed up and/or scanned. PDF, word and excel documents are updated and comments added. With three back ups that sync, all my notes and references are always at my finger tips. I have made my own releoding books that are just a print out of pertanent article and then in three ring binders.



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[waksupi]

I don't think people around Moyie Springs check the mail often. A friend from there ordered an item from me, that I finished and mailed. He called two weeks later, asking when it would get there? I checked tracking, that showed it had been delivered seven days before. Turned out he hadn't been to the PO for two weeks.

[stubshaft]

That book is a godsend. I am on my second one since I let a "friend" borrow it and he kept it!

[Harry O]

If it is still available, I would recommend everyone on this website to get one while they can. It is what I like to think of as post-graduate studies in the use of cast bullets. You really need a sold basis in casting before fully understanding it. It looks unimpressive, like it is mimeographed from a typewritten manuscript, complete with a LOT of mis-spellings. However, the information is priceless.

[Mitch]

I just sent an order to LBT this week.
some here may not remember or be old enough the days when your stuff did not come the next day or 2.Or haveing to fill out a orderform with a pen.this where Veral still is so we all wait and for good reason.Is all good and i do not expect my stuff will get here for a month.>But i am looking forward to the book and hardness tester.

[HangFireW8]

If he sent it Media Mail (formerly book rate) 2 weeks ago, it'll get to you in another 2 weeks.

[BHuij]

i do not expect my stuff will get here for a month.

It's been over two months for me since I mailed out the order form and cash. Why ask for an email address on the form if you're not going to send updates?

[Doughty]

Might try to call him in the evening around 6 or 7. 208-267-3588.

[Mitch]

I got part of my order from LBT today.I got the harness tester and a note.the not stated the 3d addition of the book is sold out the 4th addition will be comeing out soon and i will get one soon when it comes out at the old book price.The order took about a month to get here not bad for LBT.So for all that have ordered the book i am sure you will get the new 4th addition as soon as they come out.The note did not state how long it would be.

[Rcmaveric]

He made a fourth edition? Really has my curiosity peeked. I need to break down and order me a copy before he isnt around to sell it to me.

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[mart]

I just got a package from him last night according to my wife. I'm at work at a remote oilfield and won't be home until next week. The package should have 4, four cavity molds and 30 sticks of lube I ordered back in October. Veral makes one of, if not the best bullet molds in the industry but it is an exercise in patience every time you order. This was the longest and most exasperating one for me and my last one. As much as I like his molds, I'll not go through this again.

[Traffer]

There could be a lot of explanation for the delay.
1) He might be on vacation.
2) He might be sick.
3) He might be dead.
4) From time to time the post office will lose mail.
5) Indians might have killed the pony rider.
6) Global warming could have its evil hand in this.

It's hard to tell.

It's Bushes fault!

[BHuij]

For those interested, it has now been nearly six full months since I ordered, with not a peep heard back from LBT. I don't expect to receive my book, and will not attempt to do business with Veral again. For such a devoted capitalist, Mr. Smith appears to have a very weak grasp of how businesses thrive in a free market.

[waksupi]

I just got a package from him last night according to my wife. I'm at work at a remote oilfield and won't be home until next week. The package should have 4, four cavity molds and 30 sticks of lube I ordered back in October. Veral makes one of, if not the best bullet molds in the industry but it is an exercise in patience every time you order. This was the longest and most exasperating one for me and my last one. As much as I like his molds, I'll not go through this again.

You must not have ever been in on one of the early orders from Lee for custom molds we used to do here. Now, THAT was aggravating!

[glockfan]

For those interested, it has now been nearly six full months since I ordered, with not a peep heard back from LBT. I don't expect to receive my book, and will not attempt to do business with Veral again. For such a devoted capitalist, Mr. Smith appears to have a very weak grasp of how businesses thrive in a free market.

woaw.awfull.really.i was thinking about getting some of his stuff. now, i'm out lol.

[Nobade]

Well he is something like 200 years old by now. Might have something to do with it.

[Doughty]

So, did you try to call him?

[Rcmaveric]

I am curious if he got it. You did say you mailed cash. They say not to mail cash for a reason.

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[RED BEAR]

Hickory you had me until global warming interest into it the Indian attack maybe but global warming not so much!

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I came across this on GB outdoors looks like your not alone https://www.go2gbo.com/forums/99-ask-veral-smith-lbt-q/355370-anyone-heard-veral-lately.html

[curator]

While your patience has been extended to the breaking point, I would like to offer my explanation after 35+ years of purchasing from Veral Smith DBA LBT. Veral is a Christian gentleman of the old order. If your check has been cashed, or you sent cash, you WILL get your merchandise. He is pretty much a one man show, so he can either answer e-mails and telephone calls or make bullet moulds and other LBT items. He can't do both! The book "Jacketed Performance" is in its 4th printing and probably has not come back from the printer. Veral waits and you wait. Complaining won't move the printer any faster. From past experience, I know Veral has limited patience with impatient customers. You are not talking about a lot of money here, relax, chill out, and you will eventually get what ever Veral has offered to sell. An e-mail or polite letter asking about delivery date may get answered if he has an explanation abut delays, other wise you are in line to get your merchandise as soon as he can get it to you.

[BHuij]

I hope you're right. I'm not going to spend any more of my time trying to chase this down though. If it comes, great. If it doesn't, as you said, it wasn't a large sum of money wasted.

[Nobade]

It'll come eventually.

[Hardcast]

For those interested, it has now been nearly six full months since I ordered, with not a peep heard back from LBT. I don't expect to receive my book, and will not attempt to do business with Veral again. For such a devoted capitalist, Mr. Smith appears to have a very weak grasp of how businesses thrive in a free market.

If I recall correctly, you stated you sent him cash. If this is true, there is a possibility that he never received any order from you. After delivering mail for the USPS for about 35 years, it's no secret to me that there are thieves in any business, the postal service included. I strongly recommend that no one ever send cash through the mail. If I were in your position, I would call him or write him to confirm that he received the payment. If I am wrong about you sending him cash, please forgive my error.

[No1_49er]

I placed an order with him a little while back and he advised me that he is out of stock of the book, but is intending to write an updated version.
I'd really like it if he could make the "old" one available again, and I'd sure get the new one when it comes to fruition.
I do understand that he's clocked up a few years though, so he is probably setting his schedule as he sees best.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I placed an order with him a little while back and he advised me that he is out of stock of the book, but is intending to write an updated version.
I'd really like it if he could make the "old" one available again, and I'd sure get the new one when it comes to fruition.
I do understand that he's clocked up a few years though, so he is probably setting his schedule as he sees best.

Thanks for posting that bit of info.
it really explains the whole delay.

[DonMountain]

So, Veral Smith has a new version of his book, "Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets"? Reading all of this made me get my Copyright 1984, Third edition, printed July 1990 out for a reread since it has been awhile. So, has Veral added enough good information worth ordering a new one?

[iuvenal]

So, Veral Smith has a new version of his book, "Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets"? Reading all of this made me get my Copyright 1984, Third edition, printed July 1990 out for a reread since it has been awhile. So, has Veral added enough good information worth ordering a new one?

I've had some email correspondence with Veral, he has indicated that the 4th edition will be "much larger". I know he's trying to return the payments of people (like myself) who ordered the 3rd edition and have us re-order when the 4th is ready.

[RangerDan]

Hope you get your book soon I've had mine for 20 years now and keep referring back to it. A few days back someone on this site had a question about bullet hardening over time and I replied to him what Mr. Smith had in his book on this very subject. I also learned a lot about the effect of WFN (wide flat nosed) bullets as to tissue destruction in flesh from this book. One word of advise when you get it, don't loan to a friend. Let the friend sit on your porch and read it instead of taking it to his house.

[GregLaROCHE]

Okay... so we're up to well over a month now. Veral Smith may be a genius mold maker, bullet caster, and alloy specialist. But I am not impressed with his ordering system or his responsiveness. I realize $31 isn't a whole lot of money to get upset about, but just taking my money and ignoring me is really a low thing to do. He has my email address, it's on the order form. He could at least drop a line saying "yep, got your payment, I'll get around to mailing your book out sometime."

Did you check to see if he cashed the check?

[BHuij]

Well lo and behold, my book arrived in the mail on Wednesday. Information in there was fantastic. I appear to have received the 3rd edition.

I don't know that I'll be ordering any of his molds; 9+ months is longer of a shipping time than I'm willing to wait. But I'm glad the book arrived and I will definitely be referring to it frequently.

[Rcmaveric]

Well thats good news. I am glad you finally got the book. I am seriously contemplating ordering it. I really want to read it.

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[alamogunr]

I have two copies of the 3rd edition. I bought the second when he was in prison and it was announced on the old CB-L list that his wife was having financial difficulties and had several copies of the book she needed to sell. IIRC I sent enough for the book and an equal amount for a donation.

I would have to think about buying a 4th edition. Not sure any extra information over and above the 3rd would benefit me at this stage of my life.

[megasupermagnum]

Is this 4th edition a sure thing? I don't own any of his books, but emailed about a month ago after reading this thread. Still no response.

[RedHawk357Mag]

I have been watching this thread for awhile now. This has been my experience. I emailed Mr. Smith a short email asking about availability of the lead hardness testers. Within a couple days I got a response that he had them available. August 21 2018 I purchased a USPS money order for 110.00 and sent it out the same day. September 21 I paid the post office 5.95 to run a check on the money order. The online check service for USPS service provide no information about money orders. My post office would not check status of money order until 30 days after purchase. Again cost of 5.95 to perform the check. About a week later I received a single page response from post office, it contained a front and back Xerox copy of the money order I sent. Extremely poor copy I might add. It showed Mr. Smith's signature, and absolutely nothing else. No dates, no location, just his possible endorsement. So just keep that in mind for future decisions on sending money to strangers. Anyways I received a package from Mr. Smith on 14 October 2018. I have not opened it yet. I would expect there is probably a invoice in there with a hand written note apologizing for the delay based upon that is how things probably were when he grew up. Or that's what I would do if ever found to be in similar situation. I never bothered the guy with follow up emails. Not sure if I would have. That's been my personal experience. I undoubtedly believe he was an absolute master at what he does and knows but...

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[tja6435]

Every time I've ordered a mold from Veral, I have the mold(s) in hand well before the check is deposited. Some times it's a few weeks, some times a few months. I don't bother him, I just wait for my order to show up. And it always has. I have at least a dozen LBT molds, probably closer to 20.

[pls1911]

I have a bullet hardness tester and one 440 grain mold for a 45/70 from Veral, both pieces very nice quality.
Just don't get in a hurry.