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Tatume
03-06-2018, 10:05 AM
“Able to outshoot the Ransom Rest” is a commonly heard claim, and is one that I used to make myself. Recently I drilled and tapped a 17”x10.5”x2.25” block of solid aluminum for the Ransom Rest. Yesterday I shot two 1911 pistols at 25 yards. It turns out that I was outshooting the plywood base on which the rest was previously mounted. Both the Kimber Classic Gold Match and the Les Baer Stainless Stinger turned in groups of slightly less than one inch to as large as two inches. The load is the H&G #68 from Penn Bullets over 3.5 grains of Bullseye. To say that I am pleased with the guns would be an understatement.

porthos
03-06-2018, 12:02 PM
i have a wilson 1911. i was talking to one of their techs. a few years ago and he told me that they accuracy test their guns off of bags. he also told me that he shot a group so small that they would not send it as the test target with the gun. said that the future owner would not belive them. but, he does still have the target .

fredj338
03-06-2018, 02:16 PM
I have a Ransom & I can bench as well out to 25yds just not for as many shots. if I just want to test one 5 shot string, I don't bother with the ransom.

GBertolet
03-06-2018, 06:17 PM
I have a Ransome Rest, and there is a technique to using it. Do it wrong and you will get poor results. I tend to get the best groups using revolvers, and 22's, probably due to their fixed barrels. With auto's, any play in the slide-frame fit will show up in the groupings, as the frame is what is aimed, not the sights with the Ransome Rest. It is not uncommon to get better groupings with auto's, in the hand of a shooter with good eyes and arm rest, as the gun is reaimed with the sights for each shot, as slide-frame fit is compensated for.

I had a 1911 built by Jim Clark in the early 1980's. I was speaking to one of their gunsmiths, and was told that Jim Jr was the only one allowed to Ransome Rest the built guns, as he had the technique to get accurate results on their builds.

Intel6
03-10-2018, 12:35 PM
I have been using one for almost 30 years. I think they can be outshot but I look at its accuracy/consistency as a bench mark. Can a human outshoot the RR 24/7/365? I don't think so. I used to use a scope mounted on my revolvers and iron sights for accuracy testing and I can tell you I got tired, my eyes got tired and the accuracy suffered. So were the groups I was shooting before I felt tired as good as they could be? The RR doesn't get fatigued, get blurry vision, flinch, get affected by the cup of coffee they had earlier, etc...

So let's test this human vs. RR thing. Same gun & same ammo, groups will be shot every 15 min for a 24 hour period by the same person and the same RR. Any guesses about the outcome and which "shooter" will have the best groups? Or make it easier and say groups shot every 5 min for 3 hours? In both these cases who will have the better average groups? Bottom line is it takes effort for a person to focus and outshoot a RR and that focus is not consistent and is affected by many things while a RR is not affected by those things and just does that same thing over and over.

Valley-Shooter
03-10-2018, 12:57 PM
I wish I could use my RR. I don't have anyplace to mount it at my Gun Club. Nothing stable enough.
The best I have used is concrete shooting benches. My current Gun Club only has wooden benches and metal movable benches.

USSR
03-10-2018, 06:02 PM
Just so you know, Bullseye shooters test their handguns using a Ransom Rest in 10 shot groups at 50 yards. A Model 1911 to be used in competition should be capable of a 2 inch group. I have a Colt 1911 that is quite capable of that. Many handguns and loads that shoot pretty good at 25 yards fail miserably at 50 yards.

Don
216189

Newboy
03-10-2018, 06:39 PM
Bertolet

I never would have believed anyone could outshoot the Ransom, but your explanation of the slide play in semi-autos makes me a believer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Tatume
03-10-2018, 08:38 PM
Put the 1911s in a padded vice and set up a dial indicator. The Kimber has about 0.001" of side play in the slide, the Les Baer has no measurable movement. When the Kimber moves, both ends of the slide move, so I doubt the play changes point of impact more than the amount of the movement itself. However, assuming one end moves and the other doesn't, that calculates to about 0.3" of displacement at the 50 yard target. That's significant, but since the slide doesn't pivot, I doubt that it occurs. I also doubt I can see 0.3" at 50 yards, so I couldn't compensate for it if it did exist.

wv109323
03-10-2018, 09:34 PM
There is just no way human hands and sand bags can be as rigid and consistent as a RR. The grip inserts are harder than hands and the aluminum frame is more rigid than than sandbags.There is some arguement that if the gun is loose the barrel will move along with the sights. But if that is the case you need a pistolsmith not a RR to improve your accuracy.
The RR is a finicky and many times the support is not as strong as needed. Test .22 LR pistols and you may get acceptable results. Then test a .45 and things may go south if the support is not strong enough. I have seen and heard of tons of concrete used to make a stable base.
Also there is a statistical probability that your errors may cancel the actual results. A shot that should be right was erroneously shot left thus making the group smaller than it actually should have been.

fecmech
03-11-2018, 02:59 PM
Many handguns and loads that shoot pretty good at 25 yards fail miserably at 50 yards.

I learned that with my Ransom testing. My wad gun with the Lyman 452389 WC would put 10 shots into 1"@25 yds, same with 452460. At 50 yds 452460 was a 2.5" 10 shot average, the 452389 was 4"@ 50 yds. When I shot Bullseye the 4452460 was my 50 yd slowfire load and the 452389 was the 25 yd timed & Rapid fire load for the decreased recoil.
I can shoot 1 or two groups off bags with a dot sight and equal the Ransom but I don't think many people can out shoot one over a series of 5 or more groups to prove ammo differences.