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View Full Version : Chrono'd Balls, Bullets & Boolits in slow twist barrel



kens
03-04-2018, 07:09 PM
Last year I worked up some loads in a old-school Douglas barrelled Pennsylvania .45 rifle. I was looking to hot-rod a Douglas barrel flintlock, and started with a Douglas barrel percussion Pennsylvania. This is .45 cal 1:66 twist, deep groove rifling. I tried drilling a hollow base in .45acp soft boolits and they would group, but felt loose in the bore as if they would fall out pointed muzzle down.
Then I tried a thin muslin greased patch with regular pistol flat base, they gripped the barrel well, and, grouped. I tried 230gr TC, .45cal HP, and Lee 200RNFP, with my little muslin patch and they all grouped well. I tried a .40cal Hornady XTP in a sabot it grouped good too.
......But I didnt have a chronograph at that time.....
Now I got one.........
Here goes:
All data is soft cast except for the Hornady .40cal in a sabot, and all is black powder.
Pistol bullets are loaded with a thin muslin greased patch cut in narrow strips to form a X patch on loading, as cast flat base,

1. 40cal Hornady XTP loaded in a plastic sabot, 70gr 3f GEOX, 1st shot is a leftover from last years deer season, shot out of a cold bore 1810fps
followed by, 1707fps, 1578, 1685, 1713

2. .452 HP 230gr soft lead, 60gr 3f, with the X patch, 1494fps, 1445, 1518

3. .45 Lee 200gr RNFP, 60gr 3f, X patch, 1518fps, 1530
ran out of 3f powder.

Got some 2f Geox powder and continued.

4. .45 Lee 200gr RNFP, 60gr 2f, 1357fps, 1391

5. .451 round ball with pillow ticking spit patch, 70gr 2f, 1820fps, 1697, 1691

6. .45 Lee 230gr TC, 60gr 2f, 1396fps, 1356, 1356

7. .40cal XTP in sabot, 80gr 2f, 1759fps, 1755, 1787

8. .451 RB, spit patch, 80gr 2f, 1852fps, 1854

got tired, went home.
note: none of these today were shot for groups, as groups were experimented with last year to determine viability of shooting pistol boolits out of a slow twist round ball barrel.
All of these will stabilize out of a 1:66 barrel, but NONE were shot for a tight group today.
This is chrono speed data only, and data that they do indeed stabilize in 1:66"

scattershot
03-04-2018, 10:04 PM
Great info, thanks!

taco650
03-06-2018, 06:04 PM
What was the weight of the .40 Hornady XTP? And when you say "grouped well" can you give an approximate groups size in inches or was it just "minute of deer" at 50, 100... etc?

I am glad to see velocity numbers because they all show that a .45 muzzleloader is powerful enough for whitetail deer.

kens
03-06-2018, 06:34 PM
Last fall, I was experimenting with conicals shot out of a slow twist round ball barrel. this is a 1:66 twist
My first experiments were key-holing, and other such stuff.
when I say 'grouped well', I mean no key-holing, and minute of desert plate at 100 yards.
to say 'grouped well' also means it is worthwhile to pursue further load development, such as patches, greases, and adjusting powder charge.
The .40 XTP was 155gr.

taco650
03-07-2018, 05:30 AM
Last fall, I was experimenting with conicals shot out of a slow twist round ball barrel. this is a 1:66 twist
My first experiments were key-holing, and other such stuff.
when I say 'grouped well', I mean no key-holing, and minute of desert plate at 100 yards.
to say 'grouped well' also means it is worthwhile to pursue further load development, such as patches, greases, and adjusting powder charge.
The .40 XTP was 155gr.

Got it, thanks.

indian joe
03-10-2018, 07:35 AM
Got it, thanks.

Try a LEE 45 minie if ya want extra grunt - save messing round with patches - I have shot them out of a CVA 1:66 twist quite ok - so long as you keep the powder charge up there (80 + grains of FFg)

kens
03-10-2018, 09:05 PM
Is the CVA 1:66 a deep groove barrel, or a shallow groove barrel??

taco650
03-11-2018, 08:03 AM
Try a LEE 45 minie if ya want extra grunt - save messing round with patches - I have shot them out of a CVA 1:66 twist quite ok - so long as you keep the powder charge up there (80 + grains of FFg)

My rifle is a Traditions Kentucky rifle in .50 with a slow twist, 1-60 I think. I've been curious about how the Lee REAL would shoot in it but didn't want to buy a mold just to find it didn't work.

kens
03-11-2018, 02:49 PM
I think the depth of rifling has a lot of effect; how well the bore seals up, how much rifling actually gets engraved and so on.
My experiments are with the deep groove slow twist.
The slower the twist, the lighter weight ball(bullet) you can stabilize.
The deeper the grooves, the more you need a hollow base, or, a patch to seal up and engrave.

Black Jaque Janaviac
03-17-2018, 11:40 PM
I've been curious about how the Lee REAL would shoot in it but didn't want to buy a mold just to find it didn't work.

At Midsouth Shooter's Supply: Lee 2-cavity mold $19, box of Hornady lead .45 bullets $26. So even if you cast 100-200 boolits to experiment with then tossed the Lee mold in the recycling bin it wouldn't be a waste.

indian joe
03-19-2018, 10:13 AM
Is the CVA 1:66 a deep groove barrel, or a shallow groove barrel??

kens -- I would rate the CVA barrel middle of the road - not as deep as a green mountain barrel and maybe the lands are a little wider? I dont much like deep rifling for blackpowder - dont see the need for it - another myth i reckon!