45-70 H&R

[Gerry2]

I'm considering a H&R 45-70 and would like some advice from anyone who has had experience with them. What Lee cast bullet is best for paper & steel mostly at 50 to 100 yds.? What accuracy can you expect? Are they worth the money?

[26Charlie]

Lee 340 gr. with 28 gr. 4198; 2" to 4" five-shot groups from the bench; yes.

[JohnH]

I'll second Charlies post, I found that 47 grians of 3031 was most accurate in mine under that bullet. I have on and off love/hate relationships with my NEF's, but over the last 3 years I have shot 10 deer with them.

[Johnch]

I use the Lee 405 RF bullet .
I shoot straight WW and it shoots great and 4198 .
For plinking I shoot that bullet over 11 gr of Unique for right about 1000 fps
I have also cast almost pure lead bullets and used 4198 on deer .

Johnch

[drinks]

Know several people with BC's all really like them.
Also know several with regular Handirifles and I have one.
All shoot well with a good load, it is very important to slug the barrel and find groove diameter, mine is .4565, a friend's is .459 and the factory spec's are with a + - .002", so .455 to .459 is possible.
I use 4 bullets and I add gas checks to 3.
If you plan on 1200fps or so, the Lee 459-405-HB in wws or with a little lead added to wws should do fine, just use plenty of lube.
I use LBT soft blue or liquid alox and , so far, have no leading with any loads, even the 320gc at 2000fps.
Just shot a 1 1/2" 50yd 5 shot group with the 320 gc at 1800fps, 45gr Rel7.

[Leftoverdj]

Another vote for the Lee 459-405-HB. It's a tackdriver in both of my NEFs. I don't push it fast, mostly around 1100 fps.

[cabezaverde]

How is the Lee HB bullet for hunting at 1100-1200 ?

[1Shirt]

Have had good luck with the 340 Lee and 20 gr. 2400. No speed demon, but shoots real well, I hold it down with 1/2 gr dacron.
1Shirt. :coffee:

[SharpsShooter]

Lee 457-450FN
65gr Goex Cartridge
.030 Fiber or card wad
Federal 215 primer

Shoots well under a half inch at 50yds and an inch and a quarter at 100.

[Gerry2]

Does the HB cause any particular problem in the molding process?

[drinks]

Gerry;
It only comes as a single cavity mold, but most .45-70 shooters are not using a large number of bullets, at least not like .38sp shooters and wcs.
I have no problems with the 3 Lee hollow point molds I have, and , based on that experience, would not expect a problem with the hollow base molds.
For hunting, just do not waterdrop your wws or use linotype, maybe add some lead to the wws and go shoot them.
Any bullet that starts out at 1/2" diameter really does not need to expand much if at all, it is already as big as many bullets are after they have expanded and the penetration of heavy cast bullets is very impressive, I did the wet newspaper text with a 200gr rn gc in a .303 Savage, 2000 fps, went through 24" of paper, tore exit holes size of a quarter and turned the paper into confetti on the ground behind the box.

[Gerry2]

I wouldn't be hunting with it so I'm not worried about expansion, just problems with the molding process. I thought a flat base would be easier to make. From responses here so far, it seems the 340 gr. is most popular. I'm looking for the one that will give the tightest group, usually at 100 yds. My cousin owns a garage so I don't have to conserve lead, I get all his wheel weights free.

[drinks]

Garry;
Forgot, I have 2 Min'ie molds from Lee, a .45 and a .58, both are hollow base and I have no problems pouring them.

[Gerry2]

I bought the rifle. I think I'll go for the Lee 340 grain mold. I notice that the Lee molds come in 2 sizes, .457 & .459 but they only have a lube & size kit in .457. I'll try Unique, 3031, and 4198. Thanks for all the advice folks.

[Gerry2]

Do you use a filler when reloading 45/70?
Gerry

[Gerry2]

I guess I don't need a mold right away. I just bought 500 cast 350 gr .458 diam. at a local store so they should do me for awhile.
I was talking to a friend who reloads 45/70 and he uses quilt batting as a filler to keep the powder near the primer. Do any of you do that?
Gerry

[drinks]

Gerry;
I use dacron batting when using Universal and Herco, by the time I get to 4227, I just load and shoot.
4198 is the best 1400-1600 fps powder for me, 4227 for 1200-1500fps and Herco for 1000-1200fps loads.
12gr Herco gives me about 1100fps with a 320gr gc bullet, 30gr 4198 about 1450fps and 45gr Rel 7 gives about 1750fps.
All 3 shoot fine, the 1750 is starting to get a little pushy.

[Gerry2]

I made my first trip to the range with my new H&R today. Using a 350 gr boolit, I loaded 10 rounds with 15 gr of Unique, 10 with 16 gr Unique, 10 with 43 ge 3031, 10 with 44 gr 3031. I used the first 10 sighting in. 16 gr of Unique gave me 1.5" & 2.0" at 50 yds. 43 gr of 3031 gave me 2 groups of 2.1". 44 gr of 3031 gave me 2.0" & 1.1" groups. All were 5 shot groups.
I'm wondering how hot a load the H&R will take. I'm having trouble finding load data. My Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has loads for the Springfield, Winchester/Marlin, and Ruger. Which classification would the H&R fit in?

[cabezaverde]

I feel sure that the Marlin level loads would be quite safe. That action is chambered for some pretty high intensity cartridges.

[JohnH]

Take a look at the 450 Marlin. It operates at 40,000+psi, NEFchambered the Handi for that hottie, I'm sure you can load the 45-70 for all your shoulders worth in your rifle.

[Gerry2]

Where can I find load data for a 350 grainer?

[drinks]

Start with 40gr of Rel7 or 50gr 4895 and see how much more you want, both are 1500-1600fps loads.
In my experience, my shoulder and teeth give out well before the cases or rifle. ;D

[JohnH]

Where can I find load data for a 350 grainer?

Lyman has oodles of it for the Hornady 350, could also check out the Hornady and Hodgdon websites.......Have Fun :)

[chunkum]

For me in my BC, 5744 has been my best powder for low to moderate veloity loads using the Lyman 330 gr HP, and two NEI GC bullets of 365 and 435 grs. It is very likely you will reach your recoil tolerances way before you get to the max the H&R can handle. We have a Handi in .450 Marlin and my BC in .45-70. You can be sure there is a recoil pad on both and a Mercury Recoil reducer in their buttstock channels. Really fun rilfes. I use the same loads in both calibers.
Best Regards,
chunkum

[Bucks Owin]

Great thread!

I also have a .45/70 HR and 405 gr Lee mould. Haven't gotten around to shooting them in it yet but the rifle itself shows some fine accuracy. At 50 yds shooting the Win 300 gr factory load, it put 4 shots into a neat cloverleaf with the 5th rd opening the group to 1.5". That's with the open sights and my old eyeballs. I'm looking forward to scoping this rifle and playing with some cast loads.....

Dennis

BTW, I've read of guys pushing that 405 gr boolit to 1800 fps which I'll bet is plenty potent at both ends. The .45/70 Handi Rifle may not be quite up to .458 performance levels but it's light weight sure kicks like it is! :-D

[jhalcott]

I was at the range today with my Siamese mauser 45-70. I was shooting a 420 pointed cast bullet with 50 grains of 3031! It really let you know when it went off! The other load is a 350 hornady hp jacketed load/47/3031.,much friendlier. This gun weighs 15 pounds,leaded buttstock and forearm and STILL kicks with that 420 cast load.
Unless they have improved on the H&R actions, they should be held to trap door loads. I saw a guy blow up a "Shikari" trying to get 1900 fps froma 500 gr hornady.! I don't know the particulars of the event as I had to go over seas the next day.

[Bucks Owin]

I was at the range today with my Siamese mauser 45-70. I was shooting a 420 pointed cast bullet with 50 grains of 3031! It really let you know when it went off! The other load is a 350 hornady hp jacketed load/47/3031.,much friendlier. This gun weighs 15 pounds,leaded buttstock and forearm and STILL kicks with that 420 cast load.
Unless they have improved on the H&R actions, they should be held to trap door loads. I saw a guy blow up a "Shikari" trying to get 1900 fps froma 500 gr hornady.! I don't know the particulars of the event as I had to go over seas the next day.


I wondered how prudent it was to push a 405 gr to 1800 fps but folks do it. (One recipe calls for 61 grs of 3031 BTW) The HR is chambered in some fairly high intensity calibers so I think I'd be more worried about a bleeding crescent over the eyeball than the strength of the rifle! :-D

FWIW,

Dennis

BTW, sounds like your pal should buy a .458!

[drinks]

The Shakari action was the older, non H&R 1871 made one, basicly, a shotgun action for 15,000 psi, the current SH2 action is designed and sold in .30-06, .270, .280 and other 55,000-60,000 psi cartridges.
I really believe, unless you are using fast shotgun or pistol powders, no one will shoot anything that will hurt the GUN.
I know people who just fill the case , less the bullet seating depth, with 4350, 4831,H1000 and such very slow powders with no major effect except a fountain of sparks out the muzzle.

[45stomp]

I tried a nearly max marlin level load of RL-7 in my BC with the RCBS 405 (420grain ww) at a velocity of 2045 (tested over the chrony). That was more than enough punishment for me:) I think I will stick to lighter stuff from now on:-D
Stomp

[StarMetal]

The Shakari action was the older, non H&R 1871 made one, basicly, a shotgun action for 15,000 psi, the current SH2 action is designed and sold in .30-06, .270, .280 and other 55,000-60,000 psi cartridges.
I really believe, unless you are using fast shotgun or pistol powders, no one will shoot anything that will hurt the GUN.
I know people who just fill the case , less the bullet seating depth, with 4350, 4831,H1000 and such very slow powders with no major effect except a fountain of sparks out the muzzle.

Drinks,

Out of those three cartridges you mentioned..30-06, 270, and 280...only the 270 goes over the 50,000 psi bracket on up to the 60,000. By SAAMI specs the 30-06 and 280 aren't loaded to that. Not that they can't be safetly but the 06 is loaded down because of all the old built for it and the 280 was loaded down because it was introduced in a semi-auto and pump by Remington. This is not to say that action isn't designed for that pressure range, but to clarity the pressure range of those three cartridges.

Joe

[Bucks Owin]

I tried a nearly max marlin level load of RL-7 in my BC with the RCBS 405 (420grain ww) at a velocity of 2045 (tested over the chrony). That was more than enough punishment for me:) I think I will stick to lighter stuff from now on:-D
Stomp

There you go! That rifle is too light for trying to duplicate the .458 with! LOL

I reckon that a hardcast 405 gr boolit at 1800 fps would shoot end to end through just about anything that walks this continent anyway!

This is kinda off topic but has anyone gone ahead and had another barrel fitted to their Handi Rifle? I've been toying with the idea of a .22 K-Hornet (rechambered) I also sure like that looooong .45/70 target barrel they make....

Dennis

[BAGTIC]

The .280, .30-06 and the .270 all use the same head size brass. If a gun will handle the .270's pressures it will handle the same pressure in the other calibers with similar head sizes.

BTW the H&R is also chambered for the .25-06 with SAAMI pressure limits of 62,000 + psi.

[StarMetal]

Bagtic,

It wasn't a post of whether the rifle would handle any of those cartridges it was a post to clarify the SAAMI pressure ranges of those cartridges. Any knowledgeable reloader surely would know that those are not only based on the same head size, but off the same parent cartridge...the 30-06.

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

I was at the range today with my Siamese mauser 45-70. I was shooting a 420 pointed cast bullet with 50 grains of 3031! It really let you know when it went off! The other load is a 350 hornady hp jacketed load/47/3031.,much friendlier. This gun weighs 15 pounds,leaded buttstock and forearm and STILL kicks with that 420 cast load......

Pussycat loads!!! My Siamese Mauser .450-400-70 (ok, it's a 45-70) weighs in at 9 1/2 lbs and I shoot 60 gr H4895 under a 500 gr Lee GC bullet, 2040 fps BTW. on the jacketed side a Barnes 400 gr SP Original over 64 gr of RL7 for 2305 fps. Not saying they don't recoil, especially off the bench, but I'm still wondering where that Marciano left hook comes from! truth is I shoot few of them from the bench as they are really punishing. Off hand or sitting I can take about 20 rounds then an 800 Ibuprofen and that's it for the day. They will go from one end of an elk and out the other end though. It's what I built the rifle for, hunting elk in pole patches.

Mostly I shoot 400 gr cast GCd 457483s at 1600-1700 fps in this rifle for practice. The 400 gr bullets Midway had on Special recently actually weigh 413 gr and over 43 gr milsurp 4895 with a dacron filler run 1547 fps. Five shots goes into 2.5 MOA at 100 yards which is good considering the Leupold compact 2.5X scope has the course cross hairs that cover 4" at 100 yards. Loading 45 gr of the 4895 pushes the plain base bullet over its limit and the group opens to 6+".

Gerry2 and anyone else with a H&R; STAY AWAY from the above loads!!!! They are WAY out of your rifles league.

Larry Gibson

[Bucks Owin]

I'd be careful with those roman candles Larry....

Hornady lists 56.1 grs of 4895 as max behind their 500 gr jacketed bullet in the Ruger for 1800 fps

Speer #10 shows 62 grs of RE7 behind their 400 gr jacketed bullet as max in a Ruger at 2178 fps

(These are both MAX suggested loads for Rugers, Brownings and M-98 Mausers BTW)

Every firearm is a law unto itself and I often step over the "redline" too (especially with lead boolits) but I just thought I'd mention this data....

FWIW,

Dennis

PS, I don't know if Hornady is saying Hodgdon or IMR 4895....

[Larry Gibson]

I'd be careful with those roman candles Larry....

Every firearm is a law unto itself and I often step over the "redline" too (especially with lead boolits) but I just thought I'd mention this data....

FWIW,

Dennis

PS, I don't know if Hornady is saying Hodgdon or IMR 4895....

I'm well aware of the "data". I have numerous editions of the various manuals and considering the gross variations between them I consider them as guides, not god's gospel. I am of the old camp when it comes to working up loads for any given rifle. I learned a long time ago how to safely work up loads for any given type of action and cartridge. Yes I made a few mistakes along the way but in each instance I had failed to follow the correct procedure or just did something stupid. Because of the "never exceed the manuals" (I always have to ask "which one") doom and gloom preachers many reloaders, particularly the newer ones, assume all data in the manuals is safe. They generally go right to the top loads because they are all "safe loads". Unfortunately all data in the manuals may not be safe in their particular rifle. I run across several examples in my years of reloading. Even whne using the down loaded data prevailent in the current manuals.

All loads mentioned are quite safe in my rifle and were worked up to carefully. Yes each rifle is a law unto itself which is why I refer to mine as a ".450-400-70". It is throated long so the Barnes 400 SP is seated to just short of magazine length. Case capacity is then actually equivelent to a 45-90. There are no pressure signs what so ever and the primers are still nice and round. I only neck size the cases and they chamber and extract with ease and I've yet to loose a case (some of which are the original R-P cases I have been using since the mid '70s when I built the rifle). Expansion at the web is minimal. The expansion ratio is about as good as it gets with this cartridge also. Ruger used to chamber the #1 in 45-70 long throated and the loads I use match the "data" that used to be listed for the Ruger. However they began to use standard SAAMI chambers and the data was reduced in all manuals accordingly. Anyways the "roman candles" are perfectly safe in my rifle, thanks for the concern.

Larry Gibson

[Bucks Owin]

:drinks:

[Dale53]

Larry Gibson;
>>>Unfortunately all data in the manuals may not be safe in their particular rifle<<<

Boy, that strikes a cord with me. A LONG time ago, I believe it was the Speer #7 manual, there was loading data for DuPont 4756. The powder, a shotgun powder, was brand new. The data showed VERY powerful loads for the .357 magnum. I loaded up a load in the medium range and went off to the range. I had a 6" Smith Model #19. The loads, with plain base 160 gr bullets shot EXTREMELY well. I DID notice that they got to 50 yards noticeably quicker than previous "full loads". I thought that I had found the "magic load". I did NOT have access to a chronograph, but, believe me they were LOTS quicker. I told a commercial loader friend about these. He had a contact with a bullet maker, who loaded some in his test TC Contender. The first shot locked up the Contender. The bullet maker sent samples to DuPont for pressure testing. They tested 67,000 PSI. Understand, these were less than the full loads listed in the manual.

My little bitty model 19 ("K" frame) suffered no apparent damage (I shot a couple of hundred of these through that revolver). Of course, when I heard I immediately ceased using that load. A friend with a much stronger Smith Highway Patrolman ("N" frame) had seriously sticking cases with two grains less...

DuPont contacted Speer immediately and I noticed that in the next manual there were either no loads for 4756 or they were much downscaled (can't remember which as it has been so long). DuPont's story was that there were two lots of powder that got out and one was "HOT". They also stated that they had previously informed Speer but...

So, your statement to "work up" is well taken. Here was a set of loading data for both the .38 special AND .357 magnum that were clear off the scale in a respected loading manual.

The only problem with "working up" with a revolver, by the time there are "indications" you may well be far into "BAD" territory. A rifle is relatively easy. They are normally a LOT stronger and you can get into bad territory with a safety margin that a typical revolver lacks. Pressure tested data is NICE when working with revolvers...

Dale53

[Larry Gibson]

Dale53

Interesting you mention the 4756 episode with the Speer manual. Back then I was shooting in and running quite a few IPSC matches. One of the local guys shows up at one match with a 4” Python and does pretty well with it but his loads were “Minor”. The next match he shows up at with some new loads using 4756 and a heavy cast bullet. We were using a ballistic pendulum to measure “major/minor” and let me say his loads were indeed “major”! As I had a chronograph I hooked up with him a couple days later and chronographed those loads. Don’t have the notes here but they were over 1500 fps with a hard cast 358421 of linotype that weighed in the high 160s. Not bad for a 4” barrel!!! He quite using the loads and the revolver and went to a M1911. I have used 4756 in the past with +P .45 ACP loads and midrange .41 mag loads and it works very well in those applications. Current 4756 data seems to be pretty correct but again, I only use the data as a guide.

As to working up max loads for revolvers you are correct about “sticking cases”. Back around ’69 or ’70 the NRA convention was held in Portland, Oregon. A friend of mine was a part time writer (mostly of fishing stories) for two small western publications. I had gone with him on a couple excursions and taken pictures for his articles. Thus, as he was a member of the outdoor writers association (don’t remember the exact name) he was invited to a writers “social event” and meeting during the convention. Since I had taken pictures that were published I also got to go. As I was mostly interested in shooting I gravitated to where the gun writers were conflabbing by the bar. I had talked with Nonte earlier that day in the convention center and struck up a conversation with him concerning his book on cartridge conversions, really a nice gentleman BTW. Anyways we shortly joined by Jordan, Skelton and a S&W rep. The conversation turned to .357 loads and how S&W had convinced the major ammo makers to down load them a tudge. S&W had quit burnishing the chambers of it’s revolvers with the exception of the M27 and M29s. Their Ms 19 and 28s were experiencing case sticking with the hotter loads and unburnished chambers. Not good for their police business. Also the heavy .357 loads were over taxing the M19. Nonte and Skelton got into a conversation on how they worked up loads in S&W and Colt DA .357s and the difference the burnished chambers made. I was young and dumb then but smart enough to keep my mouth shut, listen and learn. It was not hard to hear as all of them talked very loud to each other, almost yelling. This wasn’t out of rudeness but most of them were very hard of hearing by this time. The universal use of plugs and ear protection had not yet arrived.

Anyways, the two of them discussed in detail the difference between sticking cases and binding cases in DA revolvers. How when working up a max load for a particular revolver they worked up until they could just feel the cases start to “bind” and then would back off a tudge and that was the max load for that revolver. It the cases stuck both agreed the loads were way to hot. They both lamented S&Ws decision to stop burnishing the chambers of M19s and hoped Colt would not follow suit in the Python and Trooper DA revolvers. I did ask one question and that was what about SA revolvers. Skelton gave a very detailed and precise answer by pulling out his concealed Colt NF .44 Special, unloading it and demonstrating right there in the bar! Nobody hardly took any notice of it except me, I was glued to Skelton’s every word. Nonte just nodded his head and said “Yes, that’s exactly how I tell.” Then Nonte went on to say they both shot so many different revolvers they seldom worked up loads for individual ones anymore. They just went with a couple standard loads that were proven performers. BTW; I did ask what loads Skelton had in his Colt SA, Keith’s SWC over 7.5 gr of Unique – what else!

I have steadfastly used their technique over the years since with numerous magnum cartridges and have yet to have any pressure problems or damage any revolver. In Revolvers of known strength (not K frame Smiths) I readily duplicate the old original factory .357 ballistics with safe loads. BTW; original Remington and Winchester .357 ammo, while fast, leaded barrels something terrible! Guess I’ve rambled on long enough….

Larry Gibson

[Bucks Owin]

Larry Gibson;
>>>Unfortunately all data in the manuals may not be safe in their particular rifle<<<

Boy, that strikes a cord with me. A LONG time ago, I believe it was the Speer #7 manual, there was loading data for DuPont 4756. The powder, a shotgun powder, was brand new. The data showed VERY powerful loads for the .357 magnum. I loaded up a load in the medium range and went off to the range. I had a 6" Smith Model #19. The loads, with plain base 160 gr bullets shot EXTREMELY well. I DID notice that they got to 50 yards noticeably quicker than previous "full loads". I thought that I had found the "magic load". I did NOT have access to a chronograph, but, believe me they were LOTS quicker. I told a commercial loader friend about these. He had a contact with a bullet maker, who loaded some in his test TC Contender. The first shot locked up the Contender. The bullet maker sent samples to DuPont for pressure testing. They tested 67,000 PSI. Understand, these were less than the full loads listed in the manual.

My little bitty model 19 ("K" frame) suffered no apparent damage (I shot a couple of hundred of these through that revolver). Of course, when I heard I immediately ceased using that load. A friend with a much stronger Smith Highway Patrolman ("N" frame) had seriously sticking cases with two grains less...

DuPont contacted Speer immediately and I noticed that in the next manual there were either no loads for 4756 or they were much downscaled (can't remember which as it has been so long). DuPont's story was that there were two lots of powder that got out and one was "HOT". They also stated that they had previously informed Speer but...

So, your statement to "work up" is well taken. Here was a set of loading data for both the .38 special AND .357 magnum that were clear off the scale in a respected loading manual.

The only problem with "working up" with a revolver, by the time there are "indications" you may well be far into "BAD" territory. A rifle is relatively easy. They are normally a LOT stronger and you can get into bad territory with a safety margin that a typical revolver lacks. Pressure tested data is NICE when working with revolvers...

Dale53


Dale, I shoot a 6" M19-4 and the "magic powder" I've discovered for it is Hodgdons LilGun. We know that the M-19 ain't exactly a Blackhawk when it comes to strength and I try to load ammo that's somewhat "gentle" for it as I don't want to beat it to death and crack the forcing cone as some have. (BTW, I've heard that barrels aren't available for these guns anymore from S&W) I grabbed one of the freebie Hodgdon manuals one day at a gunshop and noticed that with a lot of magnum case/heavy bullet combinations, LilGun generates far lower pressures than most of the other slow burners.

For example: (10" barrel)

158 gr Hornady XTP: 18.0 grs LilGun = 1577 fps with 25,800 CUP
16.7 grs H-110 = 1591 fps with 40,700 CUP

That is such a huge difference that I thought it must be a misprint! But LilGun follows this trend in every thing from 32 H&R mag to .454 Casull with heavy bullet loads....

I easily get 1325 fps/158 gr boolit with a fairly mild load that shows no signs of high pressures. Empties fall out of the cyl and primers show no excessive flattening. Case life is good and it's plenty accurate too! (-2" @ 25 yds)

Just thought I'd throw this out there in case you haven't tried any LilGun yet....

In regard to revolver safety margins. Don't know about S&W but I know Ruger's margin around 100%. I remember reading an old article in Amer Rifleman that stated Ruger proofed the OM .357 Blackhawks with 6 rounds generating 60K! John Linebaugh says the safety margin in new Rugers is also 80-100% above SAAMI max limits...(Depending on model)

FWIW,

Dennis

BTW, SR 4756? I use it in shotgun loads. SR 4759? Good stuff in my 10" .44 mag!

[Larry Gibson]

Dale53

I want to correct myself here; got to thinking on the way home and Speer #7 is the last of the old spiral bound Speer manuals I believe. The 4576 data we're talking about is in Speer #8 I think. I do not have that manual. I have #s 7, 9 and 10 plus the newer ones. There is little mention of 4756 in #9 and in #10 Speer has sane loads with it. Someone out there got #8 and can check?

Bucks Owen

I don't use 4756 in a shotgun but I do use it for #P .45 ACP loads and Mid range loads in the .41. It is a pretty good powder.

Larry Gibson

[felix]

4756 has indeed a history, just like BlueDot does. Different lots in the past of the former powder has shown up as different speeds. The latter powder mostly shows temperature variations between lots, but not in the baseline burn when holding the ambients constant. When I need a Unique-Herco burn range, I will pick up 4756 as the first go-around. I will stay with 4756 if the boolit speed seems sufficient. If I need more speed I will jump to BlueDot as a preference. Both 4756 and BD are my favorite reduced full-load powders in the pistol sized cases. Actually, Herco and 4756 are pressure peak interchangable in the pistol cases. Herco, being double based, will provide more velocity at the same peak pressure, but usually with less accuracy, especially in rifles. Herco loves to be fillered, as 4756 does not tolerate fillers nearly as well. ... felix

[TCLouis]

4759 in the 44 Mag?
Heavy bullet?
Do you have any of those Chronoed?
I have a bunch of it so it may be a good use for it if I cn get "decent" velocity.

[Bucks Owin]

4759 in the 44 Mag?
Heavy bullet?
Do you have any of those Chronoed?
I have a bunch of it so it may be a good use for it if I cn get "decent" velocity.


This is a target I shot yesterday at 150 yds while testing some silhouette loads off the bench. The load consists of 19.0 grs of SR-4759 pushing a hardcast 250 gr Keith boolit. (RCBS mould# 82080). Win cases, Win WLP primers. Av vel 1264 fps. This load is a mild one pressure wise.....(and a passable "varmint load" LOL)

Hope this helps,

Dennis


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/12db6a09.jpg

[Dale53]

Bucks Owin;
>>>and a passable "varmint load" LOL)<<<

Or, a "sometime" varmint load:mrgreen:

Windage is quite good, eh? You just need to get that "varmint" to lay down:mrgreen:

Dale53

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks Owin;
>>>and a passable "varmint load" LOL)<<<

Or, a "sometime" varmint load:mrgreen:

Windage is quite good, eh? You just need to get that "varmint" to lay down:mrgreen:

Dale53


I'm just damn tickled that all 5 rds landed on the paper! :-D (A lot of my long range targets only show a couple of hits...[smilie=1: ) I don't kid myself that there wasn't a large amount of luck riding on my shoulder that day......
(And of course I'm not gonna post a target with only a couple hits on it! LOL)

That tiny white speck way out there is easily centered on the front sight but elevation-wise it tends to "dance around" a lot! :roll:

Dennis :Fire:

(I think it does speak well for the 4759's consistency though.... :) )

[Bucks Owin]

I'm considering a H&R 45-70 and would like some advice from anyone who has had experience with them. What Lee cast bullet is best for paper & steel mostly at 50 to 100 yds.? What accuracy can you expect? Are they worth the money?

This is the first 50 yd group I ever fired with mine using Win 300 gr factory ammo and the stock sights. The first four rds cloverleafed and I was so astounded that I succumbed to the "5th shot heebie jeebies" and got the flyer....

I'd say they're worth the reasonable price, those Handi Rifles can shoot!

Dennis
who's looking forward to playing with the 405 gr Lee cast boolit in his HR...


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/IMAGE050.jpg