Boolits Sizing for 9mm Question

[Pooka]

Hi all,

I'm getting back into casting/reloading and I dusted off my Lee TL356-124-2R this weekend and cast up about a 1,000 from wheel weights. I powder coated for the first time (thanks for the help Smoke) and know I am wondering about sizing them.

I plan on feeding them to a Glock 19 (yes I have read up on all the Glock - cast boolits issues and threads...but thanks for any concerns)

I do not have a sizing kit for 9mm so my question to you all is should I opt for .356 or .357?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Eddie17]

I would go bigger them .356! Over size have made my 9mm on target, to my liking��

[Pooka]

Eddie, what do you size to?

[bstone5]

I size to .357 for 9 mm cast bullets. The bullets are powder coated. Use the same bullets for 38 Special loads. With powder coating have never had any lead in the barrel.

[EMR]

Can you slug a polygonal barrel? Find out and get a sizing die one or two thousands bigger.

I use a .357 myself but it really sizes .3564. Luckily I get no leading in the many pistols I use them in.

[waco]

I size .358" for a couple 9mm's.

[Dirtjumper895]

I size .3565 for my Sig MPX ( slugs .3550), but size .358 for all of my other 9mm's. Id take the above advice and slug your barrel, or just size .358.

[Pooka]

Thanks all, I’ve never slugged it but I’ll figure out how and go from there.


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[jeepyj]

I'm different that the others because .357 doesn't pass the plunk test in my Springfield so I go .356 however if I could get away with it I'd go .357 also.

[JBinMN]

Hi all,

I'm getting back into casting/reloading and I dusted off my Lee TL356-124-2R this weekend and cast up about a 1,000 from wheel weights. I powder coated for the first time (thanks for the help Smoke) and know I am wondering about sizing them.

I plan on feeding them to a Glock 19 (yes I have read up on all the Glock - cast boolits issues and threads...but thanks for any concerns)

I do not have a sizing kit for 9mm so my question to you all is should I opt for .356 or .357?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

I use the same boolit & I run them "as cast". They are usually around .356 - .357. ( I can't remember if I "beagled" those with tape or not).

Regardless, my 9MM slugged at .355 & I get -0- leading or any other issues. I lube them with 45/45/10 lube as well.

If they are casting at .356 or .357 & you should be OK if you barrels groove diameter is at around .355. Just want to keep the "boolits' at 0.001+ to 0.002 larger than the groove size of the "grooves" in your 9MM bbl. diameter & lubed well.

G'Luck!, regardless!
:)

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

.358 works in all 3 of my 9mm's and 4 different .380's. Works fine in my .38's, as expected.

[Ed_Shot]

.358 works in all 3 of my 9mm's and 4 different .380's. Works fine in my .38's, as expected.

Same here..... I load for 4 different 9MM's, 3 different 380's, and 6 different 38/357's in the family and all work perfectly sized .358.

[Tom W.]

I just sold my Glock 19, but while I had it I fired boolits sized to .358. I use the same size in my LC9s Pro, and my .357. Never had leading in these handguns. I'm going to get a CZ 75 SP-01 next week and will shoot the same sized boolits. I've been using White Label Lube's Carnauba red for the last 10 years with no leading in any of my firearms.

[tazman]

.358 works well in all but 2 of my 9mm pistols.
My Springfield Range officer pistols require .357 or smaller to function properly.

[gregtu]

I have the same mold, and my gun shoots fine with them now. I can't chamber a .368 in my S&W M&P Pro--I guess a tight throat. The barrel also slugs at barely over .355. I'm pretty new to casting though, and I ended up using the .356 Lee sizer after two PC coats (tried .357 & .258 first). I've not shot too many rounds through it....only enough to make sure that it cycled, that there was not too much pressure on the primers, etc.. No leading yet, but that is my fear. I've heard that I may need to ream (or otherwise enlargen it) so that I can run a little larger boolit, but I'm trying to make it work as it is, including the factory barrel.

[DSRichert]

.358 for 9mm and 38s

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[upnorthwis]

I PC them out of that same mold and don't size at all. I let the taper crimp take care of it.

[warpspeed]

When I shoot j-words, they are 0.355" and shoot great. For cast, I like 0.356" and have not had any issues.

[bbogue1]

Make a slug, slug your barrel and send the slug to Dardas Bullets who will mic them to four decimal places then recommend what size is best for your barrel, make your bullets +.001 to .002 larger than your barrel, PC them then size them to the size they need to be. Load them, shoot them. I slugged my Sigs barrel after having severe leading and found it slugged at .356 which is the diameter of the bullet I was using. Now I use the same mold you are talking about, PC them and size them .358. You are really guessing until you slug your barrel. To make a slug put some fishing weights on top of a 9mm case. Heat the case with a propane torch or lighter. The lead will melt and drop down into the case. Let it cool and knock it out with a impact bullet remover. I keep several slugs on hand to slug other peoples barrels, but, the slugs (usually 2-3 of them) go to Dardas for measurement.

[Pooka]

thanks for the slug tutorial bbogue1, I'll give it a go.

[RobS]

It's a Glock. A Glock factory chamber is typically generous so you would likely be fine with a sized .358 boolit. A thought - go with a .357" size die and if you need more lap it out to .358 with a strip of 320 or 400 grit sand paper wrapped around a split rod dowl with a bit of oil and a cordless drill.

[Motor]

When I used lube I used to size them .358" and never had any issues. It also worked out well because I actually shoot some of the 9mm boolits in 38spl/.357

I also used to use 15BHN alloy for them. Since I switched to powder coating I'm finding no problems with sizing .356" and using 12BHN alloy. This doesn't mean that I always use .356" though but I know it works. The boolits that I use for both 9mm and .357 I simply just size .358" and use them.

Motor

[Cowboy_Dan]

Short version, I PC and size .356" in an aftermarket Glock barrel.

Long version:

I built my Glock 17 from an 80% frame (using only hand tools, but that's beside the point), and a Combat Armory slide and "match" barrel. It slugs at .3547", but will chamber a .358" bullet. Initial load testing found a most accurate load for the powder used and the Lee 120 TC. Initial tests also suggested that due to the vaugeries in my process, some rounds would resist entering battery until cycled in 2-3 times and showed light rifling marks. All rounds fired fine once in battery.

The next test was to make three test groups: .356" seated with the original seating die settings and .356" and .358" seated slightly deeper. Result was that none of the three groups had the out of battery problem, and all rounds shot into the same group. So I load them sized .356" seated to the shorter OAL confident that even if I short stroke a bit on the press, it will still chamber and fire into the same group. Usual caveats, do your own tests and your mileage likely will vary.

[Lloyd Smale]

I do them all 357. 358 runs in some guns but not others and ive never had leading problems at 357 in any of my 9s

[Shingle]

With a plain base boolit you would be safe with .357, i use several sizes .355-.358 depending on the gun and boolit design.

[trapper9260]

For me some of my 9mm I size them to .356 and one to .358

[Drew P]

My glock barrel, and most of them to my knowledge, are not polygonal inside. They are better described as rounded groove rifling.

Mr fortune cookie has some thoughts about it that make sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1fI0iYeGps

[Sailormilan2]

Two barrels need boolits sized to .358, 4 barrels need boolits sized to .357. 2 barrels need boolits sized to .356. So, I use two sizes, .357 and .358.

[marek313]

I dont want to generalize here but largest boolit that freely chambers will be the most accurate one. I dont really concentrate on the barrel rifling as much as throat diam and freebore size. If your bullet freely chambers then your barrel wont have a problem swaging it whether its .001 or .005 oversized. I dont think it will spike pressure much neither.

Problem is not all guns have generous throats with large freebore areas which is what we as casters look for. I can shoot .3575 from my Sig p320 but my Taurus PT111G2 only chambers .356. Anything larger sticks and you can tell right away when you try to hand cycle couple rounds. I had few live rounds stuck in my Taurus when I ran into couple light primer strikes with boolits that were little large. Slide was stuck as if it was welded shut. Good thing this gun has restrike feature so couple restrikes and i finally got that round to go off and eject.

[DougGuy]

I dont want to generalize here but largest boolit that freely chambers will be the most accurate one. I dont really concentrate on the barrel rifling as much as throat diam and freebore size. If your bullet freely chambers then your barrel wont have a problem swaging it whether its .001 or .005 oversized.

Problem is not all guns have generous throats with large freebore areas which is what we as casters look for.

^^^^THIS... +1

Freebore is the critical part of the barrel just in front of the chamber for casters. It is pretty much industry wide that the manufacturers put very little or NONE at all in a factory barrel and send it out because it shoots factory ammo, usually truncated hollowpoints sold as defense ammo, this is the market they are targeting and these will function .001" or .002" SMALLER than groove diameter, and they will feed and plunk in 99.995% of all 9mm barrels ever made.

Now.. Let's bring this up to speed for handloaders and casters. MOST barrels have little to no freebore, and the freebore they do have is less in diameter than we would want for optimum performance with cast. So.. In a *perfect world* the boolit would be .001" to .002" over groove diameter of the barrel, and the throats (for a revolver) or the freebore (for an autoloader) would be .0005" to .001" over boolit diameter so that you don't have to size smaller or seat deeper to get ammo to feed and plunk reliably.

It is a simple, inexpensive, one-time fix to have the barrel throated to use .358" cast which is the most common size cast boolit in use by shooters of the 9mm. WE, as casters and aficionados of cast boolits simply need to have the throat in the barrel "dimensionally corrected" for the best performance!

Here is a pic of a *properly* throated barrel that is correctly dimensioned for use with cast boolits.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/Glock%20Throating/5bc940f7-3eb8-4afb-a97e-a0847f05a590_zpsuertpz7r.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/Glock%20Throating/5bc940f7-3eb8-4afb-a97e-a0847f05a590_zpsuertpz7r.jpg.html)

For a 9mm, the freebore is .3585" in diameter, the freebore is roughly .100" in length, and it is on a 1 degree 30min angle which is the gentlest leade in to the rifling that you would want. Almost any 9mm barrel with a throat like this will shoot lights out with .358" boolits.

For the sake of accuracy with the photo, I believe this is a 40 caliber aftermarket barrel for a Glock, but the principle is the same regardless of caliber, only the dimensions are different.

[lwknight]

This variable depends on your specific barrel.
Example: I had 1 barrel that slugged at .356 and a .357 bullet would not chamber. The solution was to get another barrel. The replacement slugged at .3455 and will shoot .355 bullets all day with no leading.
Some guns have looser chambers so a larger bullet will do just fine. Every one is unique.

[Pooka]

Update: I followed bboque1's suggestion and created a slug out of some pure lead melted into a 9mm case. The slug mic'd out at .3556 and an average of 10 powder coated boolits came it at .36464 which gives us a difference of .00904.

So as these are meant to be cheap training rounds should I call it good enough for government work...or should I add another layer of pc to fatten them up a touch?

[EMR]

Update: I followed bboque1's suggestion and created a slug out of some pure lead melted into a 9mm case. The slug mic'd out at .3556 and an average of 10 powder coated boolits came it at .36464 which gives us a difference of .00904.

So as these are meant to be cheap training rounds should I call it good enough for government work...or should I add another layer of pc to fatten them up a touch?

No need to go fatter as that’s plenty thick. Really you only want .001-.002 thicker. You’re at .009. Load a dummy round and see if it plunks (which I kind of doubt). If it plunks then it’s probably good to go. If not, get a sizer to .357 or .358 then recheck for plunking and go from there.

If you’re really that thick at .36464 then you should dust off the extra powder before sticking in the oven.

[gwpercle]

.356 sized boolits gave me problems , going to .357 solved all those problems , the only thing to watch for is the lack of throat in new 9mm pistols. The boolit needs to be seated deep enough to pass plunk test....after that it's all good.
The COL listed in a book may not work, load some dummies to work out seating depth.
Gary

[Pooka]

EMR, thanks for the reply and clarifying things for me. For some reason I was thinking the difference desired was .01 to .02 (YIKES!) hence the question in my last post. I'm ordering a .357 sizer :-)

[DougGuy]

.356 sized boolits gave me problems , going to .357 solved all those problems , the only thing to watch for is the lack of throat in new 9mm pistols. The boolit needs to be seated deep enough to pass plunk test....after that it's all good.
The COL listed in a book may not work, load some dummies to work out seating depth.
Gary

Why do people look at a barrel and assume it's bible and then load for that barrel until it feeds and plunks, REGARDLESS of whether the barrel is anywhwere near SAAMI specs or not?

If you cannot assemble and use ammo loaded to the dimensions given in published loading data, wouldn't that tell you something may be wrong?

The barrel (or a cylinder) is a TOOL. It is a machined GUIDE. Somebody machined it when they made it. If it does not work as manufactured, then RE MACHINE IT. I throw my hands up.

NOBODY makes a barrel that is cast friendly. NOBODY. NOT ONE MAKER that I am aware of throats a barrel properly for cast boolits.

SAAMI specs for a 9mm call for a throat with freebore with leade ins tapered, even if the barrel was EXACT SAAMI specs it would shoot cast albeit sized to .356" and no larger.

Jerry Keefer notes that the 9mm pistol that KEEPS winning these national matches has .100" of freebore and a 1 degree leade angle. If throating had any negative aspects, these guys certainly wouldn't bother.

[Drew P]

Slugging a 5 groove barrel is an interesting process, which takes a few special tools. I believe a 30° machinist V block if I remember right.

[Burnt Fingers]

Slugging a 5 groove barrel is an interesting process, which takes a few special tools. I believe a 30° machinist V block if I remember right.

I wrapped a strip of copy paper around the boolit, measured, then subtracted 2x the thickness of the copy paper.

[Burnt Fingers]

Why do people look at a barrel and assume it's bible and then load for that barrel until it feeds and plunks, REGARDLESS of whether the barrel is anywhwere near SAAMI specs or not?

If you cannot assemble and use ammo loaded to the dimensions given in published loading data, wouldn't that tell you something may be wrong?

The barrel (or a cylinder) is a TOOL. It is a machined GUIDE. Somebody machined it when they made it. If it does not work as manufactured, then RE MACHINE IT. I throw my hands up.

NOBODY makes a barrel that is cast friendly. NOBODY. NOT ONE MAKER that I am aware of throats a barrel properly for cast boolits.

SAAMI specs for a 9mm call for a throat with freebore with leade ins tapered, even if the barrel was EXACT SAAMI specs it would shoot cast albeit sized to .356" and no larger.

Jerry Keefer notes that the 9mm pistol that KEEPS winning these national matches has .100" of freebore and a 1 degree leade angle. If throating had any negative aspects, these guys certainly wouldn't bother.

DougGuy,

I haven't had a chance to take my Canik barrel to the range yet as it's been really wet. But! I'm now able to seat the MP 146 gr RN bullets out to 1.10 and have them chamber! That's a win in my book.

[nueces5]

^^^^THIS... +1

Freebore is the critical part of the barrel just in front of the chamber for casters. It is pretty much industry wide that the manufacturers put very little or NONE at all in a factory barrel and send it out because it shoots factory ammo, usually truncated hollowpoints sold as defense ammo, this is the market they are targeting and these will function .001" or .002" SMALLER than groove diameter, and they will feed and plunk in 99.995% of all 9mm barrels ever made.



For the sake of accuracy with the photo, I believe this is a 40 caliber aftermarket barrel for a Glock, but the principle is the same regardless of caliber, only the dimensions are different.

Your explanation is very good. Unfortunately in Argentina there are no barrels of lone wolf for sale. But I do not quite understand why some IPSC colleagues use their glocks with pc boolits and original barrel.

[smokeater]

Like motor, I cast and size .356 for all my Glocks w/factory barrels. Alloy no harder than 13bhn, never a problem with leading. Now shooting same thru a KelTec SUB2000 and a Ruger PC Carbine, no problems. Just me, but I think barrel condition has some say whether a barrel leads or not and velocity. I ran well over a 1000 rds of 1100fps + before I ever attempted cast bullets. Also, I clean varrel after every session or outing.