Absorbing lead thru the skin ?

[jski]

While watching YouTube videos on reloading I would occasionally see some guy using rubber gloves to handle lead ingots and lead bullets. And he'd mumble something about too much "direct contact with lead". So I went to OSHA's website and found this:

"Lead (except for certain organic lead compounds not covered by the standard, such as tetraethyl lead) is not absorbed through your skin. When lead is scattered in the air as a dust, fume or mist it can be inhaled and absorbed through you lungs and upper respiratory tract."

Is this consistent with your understanding?

[JimB..]

Yes. I’ve always thought that gloves with lead was to prevent injestion, specifically you get lead on your fingers and then enjoy a biscuit without first washing up well.

[buckshotshoey]

Ditto. Or a cigarette. This fear of lead thing is Kalifornia and liberal based. They should change their slogan to..... "Living causes cancer"!

Just use common sense. Wash your hands. And don't use an angle grinder or a sander on an ingot of lead! Lol

[6bg6ga]

Last year I had a lead test done and the results were within standards (low to none). I handle bullets and reload with no gloves and I was starting to wonder if I had a lead problem. As long as you don't eat without washing your hands you should be ok. I doubt that smoking cigarettes is going to be a factor. I used to smoke.

[Beagle333]

I don't wear gloves when handling bullets or ingots, and my lead levels are really low as well. From my understanding, as long as you don't put your hands near your mouth, the only danger from lead is the old lead that has turned white and dusty. I have read that the white oxidized lead can be absorbed through skin, but since I avoid handling that, I can't prove it. But I do know for certain that the nice silver boolits and ingots won't hurt you. Happy casting!

[Hickory]

When handling lead for with your bare hands you will get lead on your skin, but it will take several hours for the actual absorption to begin. Wash your hands several times after handling lead. The pinkish-gray stuff that you see going down the drain when you rinse your hands the first time is lead.
Wash and rinse your hands 1 or 2 times after that to be sure you get it all.

[Thin Man]

Many years ago when I was a LEO I was assigned early on to make the corrections to our agency's firearms. Many times this meant nothing more than to clean them because so many of the people there either did not know how to do a thorough job of this or they were just too stinkin' lazy to do their own work. These were the days when every one of us carried a revolver and the agency's issue duty ammo was lead projectile RN factory material. Training ammo was lead wadcutter ammo. Some of those revolvers could build up enough lead splatter to make the actions cramp. I had my hands full of lead and solvent on a regular and frequent basis. After years of this I was in my doctor's office for a routine visit and requested a check for lead in my system. The report came back saying there was none to be found. I was relieved and discounted all the old chatter about handling lead with bare hands. Side note - the lead-free report did nothing to convince SWMBO whether that contamination had not settled in my **** - something about the honey-do's not getting enough attention. We still disagree on that one. Beyond that I had this test repeated recently after having increased time for smelting and casting, same results as before. Go ahead and enjoy yourself with casting.

[buckshotshoey]

Last year I had a lead test done and the results were within standards (low to none). I handle bullets and reload with no gloves and I was starting to wonder if I had a lead problem. As long as you don't eat without washing your hands you should be ok. I doubt that smoking cigarettes is going to be a factor. I used to smoke.

It might. Get lead on hands, transfer to cig, cig to mouth. It depends how you handle you cigarettes I guess.

[buckshotshoey]

Oh.... And be sure to wash your hands before playing with your wanger! :bigsmyl2:

[charlie3tuna]

I don't wear gloves when handling bullets or ingots, and my lead levels are really low as well. From my understanding, as long as you don't put your hands near your mouth, the only danger from lead is the old lead that has turned white and dusty. I have read that the white oxidized lead can be absorbed through skin, but since I avoid handling that, I can't prove it. But I do know for certain that the nice silver boolits and ingots won't hurt you. Happy casting!


Plus one !!! Same stuff formerly used in white paint (lead oxide) that was banned by EPA. Only decision of theirs I agree with, offhand....charlie

[Tom_in_AZ]

Yes. I’ve always thought that gloves with lead was to prevent injestion, specifically you get lead on your fingers and then enjoy a biscuit without first washing up well.

This is my understanding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Beau Cassidy]

I always wash my hands after handling lead but that is mainly to get the dirt off my hands. It just makes sense not to eat after handling lead due to the transfer from hand to food to mouth. Now when I worked trauma ER i met a lot of folks who got some lead poisoning thru direct contact with their skin but it was usually from penetrating direct contact. Got a few with metal poisoning the same way. Ironically they were all just sitting on the porch reading their bible when they got poisoned.

[ascast]

About a year ago I had a lead test done, specific for lead. My results were "low to none-nothing to worry about". I have never believed that casual contact gets lead on your hands. And smoking after handling bullets, casting is a joke. I have for many years actually licked bullets or blocks of lead to demonstrate my disdain for the ridiculous belief that casual contact will kill you. Watch for the white stuff, or the skimming from your casting pot, wire wheeling you casting pot, poorly ventilated, heavily used indoor ranges. have fun

[blackthorn]

In the 1960's I worked in a plywood manufacturing plant. One of our products got painted on the edges with a yellow colored lead based paint. The painting was done by an East Indian gentleman who did not use gloves when cleaning up the painting equipment. He got a very bad case of lead poisoning. On investigation, we determined the lead entered his system via the paint thinners used in clean up. It may also have been, at least in part, his hygienic procedures.

[tazman]

I worked with and around solid lead and molten lead(1500 degrees F) for 40 years in a heat treatment facility and never got enough lead in my system to worry about. We were tested every year by OSHA requirement.
Lead will not turn to vapor until high temperatures are reached. It will however, form an oxide on the surface that is exposed to the air and become dust particles at lower temperatures. These dust particles are the larger issue.
We only had one man in that period of time who got lead into his system in enough quantity to get removed from the department. He was a serious smoker and refused to wash his hands before he smoked or ate his food.
Simple precautions will prevent any significant lead absorption.
Venting above the lead pot gets the lead dust(not vapor) out of the air where you breath. Even a small fan blowing slowly across the work area is enough to remove it.
Always, always wash your hands before you smoke or eat anything. If you are drinking from a bottle, never handle the mouth of the bottle and always put the lid back on so no dust particles get in.
Change your clothes when you finish smelting or casting and wash them as soon as you can. The dust can get on your clothes and get back on your hands when you handle them or wipe your hands on the pants.
These things are easily done and prevent any lead absorption through your mouth or lungs.
There are similar dust particle issues at indoor ranges that don't have sufficient ventilation and air movement. Many shooters who shoot several times a week often get lead into their system from this type of situation.
Especially for revolver shooters, there is a small amount of lead dust blown off the base of plain based cast boolits as they leave the cylinder and barrel. Look at the front of the cylinder, the top strap, and the forcing cone after a session and you will find small amounts of lead adhering to the metal in these areas. The dust that didn't stick is blown out sideways and some of it ends up on your hands and arms. You need to wash your hands after a range session.

[clintsfolly]

The only guy I know to get lead poisoning was a carpenter that had real bad hygiene( never washed his coverall all winter or two) smoked like a chimney. That winter we tore down a old steel bridge and he would get behind a beam or anything to get a wind break. Using a Torch to cut beams and braces was his job! The whole bridge was covered with lead paint. So he would be behind a windbreak cutting 80yrs worth of lead paint with a torch. The others in the crew all doing similar work but staying up wind if possible ALL had little or none in their blood!

[Rcmaveric]

Its pretty tough for your body to absorb lead if it its not in a soluble state. Moral of the stories is practice some form of safety, good house keeping and I wont make funny of anyone for being too safe. You could probably eat a bullet and it wont hurt but you if gobble up a TBL spoon of lead oxide (what lead paint is made of) you might want to let doc know. It mostly boils down to repeated long term exposure. It takes awhile for the levels to build and they cant get out. Just look at California's Condor research....they blamed the bullet and banned the bullets and after a lot of years the condors are still dropping like fly's with messed up babies. Come to find out they messed up in their conclusion and it was the lead based paints on a lot of the water towers (birds eat paint chips too, who knew). The research paper changed their conclusion but lead bullets are still banned. If you get shot you more things to worry about than if that bullet in you is gonna poison you.

[quail4jake]

Metallic lead is safe to handle as long as you wash your hands, I use D-lead soap with EDTA. Carbonates , hydroxides and acetate of lead are lipid soluble and bioavailable but these compounds are generally not formed in our usual casting procedures. Smelt outside and be careful handling dross since it forms oxides which have some limited bioavailability and can be absorbed by ingestion or inhalation. Cast on, my plumbic friends!
[smilie=s:

[frkelly74]

At a physical I had a few years ago, after working construction in all kinds of old and some nasty buildings for 35 years and then taking up casting fairly recently I asked for a blood test for lead. They were taking blood anyway. It came back at 12 ppm and the doctor kind of had a cow and just knew it was from all those horrible nasty bullets I cast. I think it is probably lower now, but I am working in a 101 year old house so maybe not.

[buckshotshoey]

My cousin still has lead bird shot in his back from when he was a teenager. Long story. But the doctors said it would do more damage to remove it. The body will form fat sacs around it to seal it off. No lead issues.

As for the lead at indoor shooting ranges, i think that is mostly from the powder. The burn is hot enough to vaporize the base of a boolit, and it is deposited down the barrel, and into the air. This is where a good percentage of barrel leading comes from. Some shooting ranges only let you shoot TMJ's because of lead vapors. This is what "Boots" Obermyer said anyway.

[Streetwalker]

I was also quite worried about lead and I had myself tested via a blood sample and, after many years of casting and handling lead, the test results came back negative. I always washed my hands after handling lead and had a good air flow and exhaust in my casting area. The Doctor always said that a good dose of common sense was always a great prescription!!

[Pipefitter]

As for the lead at indoor shooting ranges, i think that is mostly from the powder. The burn is hot enough to vaporize the base of a boolit, and it is deposited down the barrel, and into the air. This is where a good percentage of barrel leading comes from. Some shooting ranges only let you shoot TMJ's because of lead vapors. This is what "Boots" Obermyer said anyway.


Mostly from the lead styphnate compounds in the primers is my belief.

[Wayne Smith]

My cousin still has lead bird shot in his back from when he was a teenager. Long story. But the doctors said it would do more damage to remove it. The body will form fat sacs around it to seal it off. No lead issues.

As for the lead at indoor shooting ranges, i think that is mostly from the powder. The burn is hot enough to vaporize the base of a boolit, and it is deposited down the barrel, and into the air. This is where a good percentage of barrel leading comes from. Some shooting ranges only let you shoot TMJ's because of lead vapors. This is what "Boots" Obermyer said anyway.

It has been pretty well proven that there is not enough time for the heat of the powder to 'vaporize' lead or melt it. Indoor range lead in the air is from lead styphanate in all the primers except Federal.

[buckshotshoey]

If powder gases WILL vaporize copper, why not lead? It is proven that's where copper fouling comes from. Vaporized copper. Not from barrel imperfections imparting friction on the bullet. The barrel imperfections act like a....for the lack of a better word.... magnet. Hand lapped barrels will not allow a place for the copper to deposit easily. Lead styphanate primers is a source though.

[BAGTIC]

Lead must be ingested. The damage from breathing lead is that it comes back up in the mucus and is swallowed. Barrel fouling, lead or copper, is not due to vaporization. If it was it would be as heavy on the top of the lands as it is in the bottom of the grooves. Also, it it was due to vaporization the smoothest most polished bores would get as much as run of the mill bores. Leading is due to metal being scraped off the bullet. We can get the same result rubbing a piece of metal across a file.

[buckshotshoey]

Lead must be ingested. The damage from breathing lead is that it comes back up in the mucus and is swallowed. Barrel fouling, lead or copper, is not due to vaporization. If it was it would be as heavy on the top of the lands as it is in the bottom of the grooves. Also, it it was due to vaporization the smoothest most polished bores would get as much as run of the mill bores. Leading is due to metal being scraped off the bullet. We can get the same result rubbing a piece of metal across a file.

I would like to discuss this further, but dont want to hijack this thread. I will start a new one.

[Victor N TN]

I worked in a shop during the 1980s that regularly handled and machined lead. This is also the time when I was casting the most. We were given blood tests for heavy metals every year. Only twice was I told there was a trace amount that was too low to measure. An old man who I worked with told me at home to put a few drops of dishwashing liquid in my dry hands before I started working with lead at home. He told me to use it like hand lotion and rub it all over my hands, especially my fingers and under my fingernails. It's always done me right. I guess I'll keep it up.

[lwknight]

My cousin still has lead bird shot in his back from when he was a teenager. Long story. But the doctors said it would do more damage to remove it. The body will form fat sacs around it to seal it off. No lead issues.

As for the lead at indoor shooting ranges, i think that is mostly from the powder. The burn is hot enough to vaporize the base of a boolit, and it is deposited down the barrel, and into the air. This is where a good percentage of barrel leading comes from. Some shooting ranges only let you shoot TMJ's because of lead vapors. This is what "Boots" Obermyer said anyway.

This has been proven false by pasting magicians flash paper to bullet bases and firing them into recoverable media. The flash paper was not burned. Lead deposited in the barrels is from hot gasses passing around the bullet and vaporizing that way. That is why gas checks are not called fire shields.

[lwknight]

If powder gases WILL vaporize copper, why not lead? It is proven that's where copper fouling comes from. Vaporized copper. Not from barrel imperfections imparting friction on the bullet. The barrel imperfections act like a....for the lack of a better word.... magnet. Hand lapped barrels will not allow a place for the copper to deposit easily. Lead styphanate primers is a source though.

Probably some truth in this. I have a GP-100 that has fired 1000s of rounds and it does not lead up. The inside of the barrel looks like chrome but I never did anything to it from the factory except shoot a lot. It will get sooty or some streaks but they swab out easily.

[LabGuy]

Lead is pretty safe on skin until it gets up to 600-700 feet per second.

[lwknight]

Lead is pretty safe on skin until it gets up to 600-700 feet per second.

Or 600-700 degrees F.

[john.k]

I got lead from oxycutting old bridges that were coated in red led 1/8 thick at times......still not a dangerous dose.But cutting that stuff was a nightmare.......zinc paint would fire off little flaming balls like poor home made blackpowder,that burned thru leather coats..... old powdered.lead paint and young kids is the major risk.

[jski]

If you look thru the OSHA writings on lead it appears that the only real danger from lead is exposure to organic compounds the have lead in their atomic makeup, i.e., lead is one of the atoms in the organic molecule.

It's sort of like calcium, it needs to be in a metabolizable form to be adsorbed into your body.

[303Guy]

One should worry about lead oxides - the yellow or red powder that can form on your melt. It gets airborne and absorbed through the lungs and upper respiratory tract. Ask me how I know. My test results came back over the top!

[JimB..]

This has been proven false by pasting magicians flash paper to bullet bases and firing them into recoverable media. The flash paper was not burned. Lead deposited in the barrels is from hot gasses passing around the bullet and vaporizing that way. That is why gas checks are not called fire shields.

I thought that tracers were bullets that have a cavity for phosphorous or some other material that is ignited by the powder charge in the case upon firing. If there isn’t sufficient heat to burn flash paper then that must not be how tracers work. At the risk of derailing the thread, how do tracers work if not like this?

[buckshotshoey]

I started a new thread for this, but it's been almost 24 hours and not a response. Guess it's not worth the discussion.

[jski]

303Guy, what have you done to remedy your problem? I assume you're well ventilating your melting area. Have your numbers gone down?

[lwknight]

I thought that tracers were bullets that have a cavity for phosphorous or some other material that is ignited by the powder charge in the case upon firing. If there isn’t sufficient heat to burn flash paper then that must not be how tracers work. At the risk of derailing the thread, how do tracers work if not like this?
I for one have not a clue but I bet we can do some googling. If I remember right , I think it was mythbusters that did the flash paper test.
I would imagine that the fire is a lot hotter under high power rifle bullets than lead pistol bullets.
Wikipedia says that a pyrotechnic charge is lit by the burning powder. No other info on the exact details of how it really works.

[JimB..]

I for one have not a clue but I bet we can do some googling. If I remember right , I think it was mythbusters that did the flash paper test.
I would imagine that the fire is a lot hotter under high power rifle bullets than lead pistol bullets.
Wikipedia says that a pyrotechnic charge is lit by the burning powder. No other info on the exact details of how it really works.

Yeah I don’t bother with google, it’s just another fad.

Actually, turned up http://www.lasc.us/TaylorLeadingDefined.htm where the guy claims to have done the test. Not saying that he is not being truthful, but flash paper is essentially a sheet of nitrocellulose, ie a single base propellant, so I don’t see how the powder charge would ignite but this other charge next to it would not. Maybe the glue saturated the paper, protecting it? Anyway, I don’t disagree with the guy, I just find the results of the test difficult to believe.

[dimaprok]

[QUOTE=buckshotshoey;4280800... The burn is hot enough to vaporize the base of a boolit, and it is deposited down the barrel, and into the air. This is where a good percentage of barrel leading comes from. Some shooting ranges only let you shoot TMJ's because of lead vapors. This is what "Boots" Obermyer said anyway.[/QUOTE]

Nope, that is false the powder burning will NOT burn or melt the base of the bullet. It wont even burn paper attached to the base. Tests have been done to prove that. Its the blow by gases that cause leading that melt bullet sides.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[buckshotshoey]

Nope, that is false the powder burning will NOT burn or melt the base of the bullet. It wont even burn paper attached to the base. Tests have been done to prove that. Its the blow by gases that cause leading that melt bullet sides.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

So as to not highjack the op's thread, I started a new one to discuss this.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?353863-Lead-and-copper-fouling-in-barrel

[RED BEAR]

I have had high lead levels from casting and reloading not high enough to need meds ( 28). But had to quit handling lead for quite a while. Don't smoke eat or drink while casting or loading. Wear a mask while casting. Shower after casting session. Wash hands after loading. And still had high levels of lead. Started wearing latex gloves when ever reloading. And I am still doing something wrong. I will admit that when I cast or reload they are usually last all day. I will say had a brother who did industrial stripping and painting towers bridges and the like. Lead poisoning almost killed him. In ICU for several weeks so it can be bad. Safe loading to all!

[rhouser]

I wouldn't want to guess at the amount of lead shot swallowed at my Grandfathers Sunday Dinner table (2pm Sunday dinner) between 1956 and 1963 (when I lived on his farm). The meal was always centered around whatever was gathered during the Sunday morning hunt through the corn fields. Pheasant, Quail, Pigeon, Dove, and Rabbit. It was gutted, plucked, skinned or breasted and then turned over to my Grandmother.

We had separate "shot plates" that we used to spit out any shot from the meal. Chew Chew plink Chew Chew plink. I have no idea how many pieces of bird shot I swallowed during those years.

I am now 67 and I have stopped eating shot, but, I still cast and reload. I do wash my hands afterword because we now know how scary lead is.

v/r rch

[45-70 Chevroner]

This subject comes up at least a couple of times a year. I've been casting for over fourty years, I have never had a high level of lead in my blood tests. I do wear gloves to cast boolits but that is only to keep from getting burned. We can really over think this thing.