Savage Enfield No4 Mk1 key holing issue

[Terryfromok]

Hi everybody,

I have a Savage No4 Mk1 enfield. It has a 2 groove barrel. I ordered it from Classic Arms a number of years ago. When I was cleaning it up, I thought the bore looked pretty good. It doesn't shoot cast boolits that well. Here is what I have accomplished so far (in order). This is what I did not necessarily what people in the know would do.

I bought a 314299 mould and cast some boolits. They measured unsized at 0.3155. They key holed.

I slugged the barrel and found the diameter to be 0.3145 in.

I bought another mould 316299. They measure unsized 0.3175 in. I used 18 grains of 2400. They key holed.

I then thought I should pound cast the chamber to see what's going on. I performed this 3 times to get it right. Here are the results:

212876

As you can see the rifling looks good. Now look at the next one.

212877

To me, the rifling doesn't start as far to the left as the previous rifling.

Could this cause the key holing problem?

Thanks in advance.

Terryfromok

[longbow]

All my Lee Enfields are 5 groove so no personal experience with 2 groove but look here at David Southall's article on cast boolits in 2 groove Lee Enfields:

http://www.303british.com/id37.html

I haven't reread but IIRC that was one he needed a filler for. You will get a variety of opinions on fillers and many are very much against cereal fillers but I have used COW quite a bit and work up loads with COW included. No problems so far and good results in my opinion. Shotgun buffer is another solid filler that has been used with good success in the same manner.

Some have used polyester fluff to fill the empty space under the boolit then filled the neck with COW before seating the boolit. I haven't tried that one yet but will eventually.

I generally load cast boolits over IMR4227 at 18 to 22 grs. under an NOE 316299 with good results. But again, not a 2 groove.

Longbow

[n.h.schmidt]

Others have made them shoot with a two groove. We know it can be done. Have you shot it with any jacketed bullets? The two groove Enfields are not supposed to like boat tails but shoot the standard flat base ball loads well.
n.h.schmidt

[tomme boy]

Slug your muzzle. Then report back. It may need to be counter bored. Are you using a gas check????

[MW65]

Have had good luck with flatbase 180gr rem sp with my long branch 2 groove. Going to try Lee 155 & 314299 with gallery loads... Bullseye or 2400, but at a less chg wt. Will report back on my test.

Btw, have you got all the copper out of the barrel?

[gwpercle]

Slug your muzzle. Then report back. It may need to be counter bored. Are you using a gas check????

Also check the crown , a ding or dent will cause havoc and a recrown is a simple fix.
Gary

[Dusty Bannister]

You are focused on the body of the bullet, but how does the nose of the bullet fit the bore diameter? Your .3145" is the groove diameter, but since your chamber shows the mis-alignment, that might also be an influence. When you slugged the barrel, did you have loose and tight spots? Does the nose of the bullet engage the lands or is it just floating without support when fired?

Is it possible that you could find data to increase the velocity somewhat to get that long and heavy bullet stable?

Alloy used and what lube, tumble lube or soft wax lube?

[Bloodman14]

Drop a boolit nose first into the muzzle; is there any play, or wiggling of the boolit in the muzzle? If there is, you need a bigger boolit. We will also need the load data; what powder, how much, what lube, gas check or plain base, what alloy, etc.

[303Guy]

I know a 303 will stabilize a 265gr smooth side boolit - which is inherently more stable than a lube-grooved nose rider.

One of my two grooved No4's has a 'rust textured' bore which tends to shear the boolit lands (although not all the way through). Could this be happening to yours? If so, you might try reducing pressure.

On fillers, I've used wheat bran (sieved) which does seem to improve accuracy, part of which may be due to it forming a fibrous wad under the boolit that engages the rifling and seals the bore. It might just prevent total rifling shear. I reduced powder charge from 22gr to 18gr H4227 with wheat bran. Pressure was fairly high but moderate for the Brit.

[Terryfromok]

Gentlemen,

I thank everybody for their help. I found an error in my pound casting and slugging. I have corrected the error and found the slugging diameter I made at first to be too small. All of my moulds will be too small. The area just in front of the rifling measured 0.325 in. The new slugging diameter is 0.317. The distance from the edge of the brass to just where the rifling begins is 0.100 in. The barrel bore is 0.310 in. The bullet nose is 0.306. I have a 170 grain mould in the 0.320 range that might work. I have the check the nose diameter and the driving bands to see what I have. I can make any size sizing die.

If there are any other comments, give them. I can learn from them all. Again, thank you for you help.

Terryfromok

[303Guy]

Try for a boolit size that seats firmly in an unsized neck and contacts the leade. My boolits have a taper that closely fits the leade.

[Terryfromok]

Try for a boolit size that seats firmly in an unsized neck and chambers with contact in the leade.
That's what I am aiming for

Thanks

[303Guy]

I made a two-diamer push in push out sizer but getting the tapers was tricky. The base section has a slight taper which is OK since I have a push through sizer that I use after patching. Yeah, the two-diameter sizes for a patched core.

[10x]

Slug your muzzle. Then report back. It may need to be counter bored. Are you using a gas check????

A muzzle that is worn or off square with the bore will cause keyholing

Check the diameter of the bore at the muzzle examine the rifling at the muzzle carefully
You may need to counter bore the muzzle