seating question?

[usmc0811]

I am loading up cast LRN .45acp 230gr bullets and have a question.
I am using the load data I found in modern reloading manual second edition
Powder HS-6 Start 7gr Max 8gr
I was using 7.1-7.2
stated min OAL to be 1.20
So when I used all this information the result was a case that looked odd to me. It looked like the bullet was seated too deep into the case even though it was loaded to the manuals specification.
Here are some pictures. Does it look add to you as well, would this be safe to shoot? could I seat less and be good? I usually seat my .45acp rounds to 1.25" using various other powders with good results.
212759212760212761

[243winxb]

One of the Lee RN bullets, Bullet Mold 452-228-1R 45 ACP, has to be seated extra deep, or it wont chamber. Not a problem using a starting load and working up.

Some alloys rich in antimony, make the bullet larger in diameter at the ogive area.

[John McCorkle]

Which mild is that? I imagine the profile is different than is listed for the Lee mold...ie...the one you have seems to be narrower and likely longer for the same weight in the Lee 230 lrn mold...my guess.

To answer your question I'd not seat them that deep, may not get a good crimp on the boolit

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

[BigBore45]

What mold is it? You don't have to go to min oal. 1.27" if it would pass the plunk test.

[usmc0811]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010196715/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-tl452-230-2r-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-230-grain-tumble-lube-2-ogive-radius
I guess I will seat to 1.25 as it has worked fine in my rock island 1911

[243winxb]

If not sizing the bullets, diameter changes with alloy.

[gwpercle]

I would seat it so the case mouth is even with the top band and see how that works....
Sometimes you just have to ignore the numbers and go with what looks right and passes the plunk and feeding test.
Gary

[44MAG#1]

Information in a book indicating what was used in load development and O.A.L. Measurements are there for a reason. But, you must make sure you are using what "they" used of it may be meaningless.
Are you using the same Bullet for example? If not then guess what. You are then on your own to determine your seating depth and your load developement. That is general knowledge to anyone that has been loading for a while. If you like that Bullet kinda use caution and seat it where it needs to be seated and creep up on the charge.
It's not too difficult to do.
Just be careful.

[JBinMN]

I use that same boolit, although I use the 2 cavity mold. I seat mine to 1.25". The top of the case is just about even with the start of the ogive.

Having the boolit "out" from the data from 1.2 to 1.25 should allow for Less pressure, and may help with your accuracy as well if it still cycles & chambers well at the longer length. ( we are talking a very small addition of 5 one hundredths to length, & it is Out, not Into the case.. ) There might be a slight change /decrease in velocity from the book listed ones, but I would bet not enough to make a significant difference.

One more thing I would like to point out is that in your OP you posted:

I am using the load data I found in modern reloading manual second edition
Powder HS-6 Start 7gr Max 8gr
I was using 7.1-7.2
stated min OAL to be 1.20

As ya can see in the BOLD you said it "stated" a "Minimum" OAL. I do not have that particular manual, but if it says, "Minimum OAL", then you would not want to seat that particular boolit to a deeper seat, but that should allow for a less deep seat until you reached the Max. for your firearm for it to cycle properly, or at least Max SAMI spec.( Which I think is 1.275", IIRC)..

Anyway, that is "my opinion" & perhaps someone else here can either add to it or take away, but right now that is what "I" am thinking & doing .

[243winxb]

The Springfield XD models have the tight throat that may not like a .451" diameter right at the case mouth.

[mdi]

I just looked through my Lyman 49th and saw no bullet/OAL as short as 1.20". All the RN bullets I reload are seated to a 1.260"-1.265". and the 225 LRN as per my Lyman manual is listed at 1.272". Also Lee makes two 45 cal RN molds; a 452-228-1R (standard lube) and a 452-230-2R T/L. The "1R" bullet is shorter and "fatter" and requires a deeper seat than the "2R bullet t chamber correctly...

[CraigOK]

its ok to go longer, because that wont increase pressure. Id also seat it out a little longer as long as it will drop in & out of your chamber(s) and work on a load once you establish an OAL that works for your guns

[JSnover]

I'd start near max OAL as long as it chambers easily. Less pressure for a given load, more room for powder if you want to bump it up later.

[BigBore45]

Here's my 2 cents about this whole setup. First that bullet needs to be set so as to be at 1.25 at a minimum and 1.27 AS a max. Second your not gonna like hs-6 with 45acp and lead. It is dirty and under performs. Hs-6 is a medium burn pistol powder and doesn't like the low pressure of 45 acp. It does ok with 230 grain jword bullets in +p configuration. I would work up a whole different load if I was in ur shoes. Of course I have alot of different powders available to me. Ymmv. Good luck to ya in your reloading adventures.

[usmc0811]

Thanks guys for the help. I did load some up to right where the case mouth would meet the start of the ojive and they measure at 1.26"
I checked them in a gauge check block and they fit just fine. I believe I have the Lee mold 452-230-2R T/L.
Im using HS-6 as thats what I have on hand, I will look into finding a better option soon.

On another note real quick, Is there a "LIKE" button I can click on on other peoples posts and responses like I have seen on other forums? I would like to acknowledge positive feed back to some of you by just a click of the mouse but dont seem to see one. Thanks again everyone.

[Mr_Sheesh]

For 45 ACP I'd agree that HS-6 seems slow for regular 45ACP fodder; Unique can be a little dirty but works well (I'm picky LOL but it works WELL.) I've heard a lot of people use 700X Bullseye Titegroup & W-231; even Red Dot and Green Dot; Have to agree tho, when what you HAVE is HS-6 then every cartridge looks like a job for HS-6! Just visit the LGS or some place having a good sale, and look into a powder you like better, after looking at some loading data.

No like button that I know of, people have been known to post a reply with "-person's nick- +1!" to pass the appreciation on - Or a Thanks! works too, I'd think :)

[country gent]

WIn 231 has always been my normal powder for 45 acp. Although I have loaded a bunch of liter target loads with bullseye ( soft ball loads). HP 38 does good also.

[mdi]

FWIW; 1.895 billion cartridges have been loaded with good old Bullseye quite successfully (I accounted for way over 2,000 of them)...:bigsmyl2:

[georgerkahn]

One of the dimensions I've never seen in a loading manual is the minimum distance from the bottom of the seated bullet to the top of case bottom. Why is this critical? The less space there is from bullet bottom to case bottom, the greater the pressure. Pressures increase dramatically with bullets seated even a tad deeper than they should. (One of the reasons I bought and use a cannelure tool to seat 'em where I wish) One important, of many reasons, to do your initial loading of a new bullet-case-powder-primer assembly at significantly LOWER than powder amount listed is for this very reason. That being said, with .45ACP it may not be that critical; but then again, ???? We generally only have two eyes, ten fingers, and (at least in my case) usually not enough cash to replace a blown up firearm. Looks like a good bullet you've cast; I repeat my suggestion to load, say, 10 with (in your case) 6.0; 10 more w/ 6.3; etc. I imagine you are using these in a semi-auto which adds to the challenges, as your load need enough power to safely work the action reliably, without either leaving bullets in barrel, or, a beat-to-heck firearm. GOOD LUCK!

[usmc0811]

for 45 acp i'd agree that hs-6 seems slow for regular 45acp fodder; unique can be a little dirty but works well (i'm picky lol but it works well.) i've heard a lot of people use 700x bullseye titegroup & w-231; even red dot and green dot; have to agree tho, when what you have is hs-6 then every cartridge looks like a job for hs-6! Just visit the lgs or some place having a good sale, and look into a powder you like better, after looking at some loading data.

No like button that i know of, people have been known to post a reply with "-person's nick- +1!" to pass the appreciation on - or a thanks! Works too, i'd think :)

thanks!!!!

[usmc0811]

One of the dimensions I've never seen in a loading manual is the minimum distance from the bottom of the seated bullet to the top of case bottom. Why is this critical? The less space there is from bullet bottom to case bottom, the greater the pressure. Pressures increase dramatically with bullets seated even a tad deeper than they should. (One of the reasons I bought and use a cannelure tool to seat 'em where I wish) One important, of many reasons, to do your initial loading of a new bullet-case-powder-primer assembly at significantly LOWER than powder amount listed is for this very reason. That being said, with .45ACP it may not be that critical; but then again, ???? We generally only have two eyes, ten fingers, and (at least in my case) usually not enough cash to replace a blown up firearm. Looks like a good bullet you've cast; I repeat my suggestion to load, say, 10 with (in your case) 6.0; 10 more w/ 6.3; etc. I imagine you are using these in a semi-auto which adds to the challenges, as your load need enough power to safely work the action reliably, without either leaving bullets in barrel, or, a beat-to-heck firearm. GOOD LUCK!

Thanks

[JBinMN]

I have been down with the flu for the last couple of days, but I finally made it down to my reloading area & got you some more info to use for this situation.

The following are some pics that will show you what I have found & also should help you decide what seating depth you would like to use to seat your 452-230-2R. As I mentioned before, I seat that boolit to 1.25. I will try to show you how I came up with that OAL.

Here is the first pic & it shows the TL 452-230 -2R next to a TL 452-230-TC. This is so you can see the comparison of the TL grooves & note that they are almost exactly the same as far as distance from base to top of TL grooves.
212900

In the next pic I will show you the 2R boolit & the TC boolit & what they look like in comparison when in a set of calipers. As you can see the 2R is slightly longer than the TC boolit. Note that the caliper reads .666 inches
212901

{Note - I used calipers instead of a micrometer to try to help show the readings better. I would have used a micrometer for more accuracy, but the use of calipers here should help in seeing what I am trying to show.}

In this pic you will see the TC boolit by itself in the calipers. Note the length of the boolit is .617
212902

In this next pic, I have "zeroed" the calipers & then put the 2R boolit in the caliper jaws & found the difference between the two lengths. { .666 - .617 = .049, the caliper reads .0475, but that is because there is an "error" when I moved the jaws to fit the 2R boolit in, but the difference is really .049, both by math & by re-doing the measurement to check, but I did not take another pic.}
212903

Lastly, here is a pic of the load data chart for the TL452-230-TC in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook page 278 that shows that the OAL they used for this data is 1.17 inches.
212904

NOw if you take the difference of .049" for the length of the 2R boolit and add it to the OAL listed for the shorter TC boolit of 1.17" you will get an OAl or 1.219", or rounded up 1.22".
{ 1.17 + .049 = 1.219" }

Since the only difference in the boolits are the length of the boolit OUTSIDE the case, this means that the seating depth of the boolits will be very close to the same INSIDE the case, and the boolits are of the same weight of 230gr. , so the pressures inside the case should be the same, or very close to the same, using the same charge of powder that are listed in the load data table.

Now since you have read before here, from myself & others, that if a bullet/boolit is seated FURTHER OUT, then it does not develop the same pressures as one that is seated FURTHER IN. So, you could take that same 2R boolit & move it out to 1.25", like I do & you should not have too much difference in pressure & the resulting velocity to matter too much, granting you follow all of the other load data correctly. I do this to try to fit the bullet very close/into to the "leade" /where the lands & grooves start, to try to get better accuracy, among other things. ( Besides, it is easy to remember an "inch & a quarter" OAL for that round size in my 45ACP. LOL ;)

In essence, what I am saying here is that I have shown how "I" work on this part of load development & how "I" try to find OALs for what "I" am working on.
"I" take full responsibility for what "I" do, and YOU should do the same & take full responsibility for whatever YOU do in regard to YOUR load development. { < that is my disclaimer if you or anyone else screws up, BTW.}.

I hope ya find this info helpful & G'Luck! in your load development adventures!
:)

Now I think I am gonna go hit the rack again, as this flu bug is making me tired..

Semper Fi!
;)

[usmc0811]

I have been down with the flu for the last couple of days, but I finally made it down to my reloading area & got you some more info to use for this situation.

The following are some pics that will show you what I have found & also should help you decide what seating depth you would like to use to seat your 452-230-2R. As I mentioned before, I seat that boolit to 1.25. I will try to show you how I came up with that OAL.

Here is the first pic & it shows the TL 452-230 -2R next to a TL 452-230-TC. This is so you can see the comparison of the TL grooves & note that they are almost exactly the same as far as distance from base to top of TL grooves.
212900

In the next pic I will show you the 2R boolit & the TC boolit & what they look like in comparison when in a set of calipers. As you can see the 2R is slightly longer than the TC boolit. Note that the caliper reads .666 inches
212901

{Note - I used calipers instead of a micrometer to try to help show the readings better. I would have used a micrometer for more accuracy, but the use of calipers here should help in seeing what I am trying to show.}

In this pic you will see the TC boolit by itself in the calipers. Note the length of the boolit is .617
212902

In this next pic, I have "zeroed" the calipers & then put the 2R boolit in the caliper jaws & found the difference between the two lengths. { .666 - .617 = .049, the caliper reads .0475, but that is because there is an "error" when I moved the jaws to fit the 2R boolit in, but the difference is really .049, both by math & by re-doing the measurement to check, but I did not take another pic.}
212903

Lastly, here is a pic of the load data chart for the TL452-230-TC in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook page 278 that shows that the OAL they used for this data is 1.17 inches.
212904

NOw if you take the difference of .049" for the length of the 2R boolit and add it to the OAL listed for the shorter TC boolit of 1.17" you will get an OAl or 1.219", or rounded up 1.22".
{ 1.17 + .049 = 1.219" }

Since the only difference in the boolits are the length of the boolit OUTSIDE the case, this means that the seating depth of the boolits will be very close to the same INSIDE the case, and the boolits are of the same weight of 230gr. , so the pressures inside the case should be the same, or very close to the same, using the same charge of powder that are listed in the load data table.

Now since you have read before here, from myself & others, that if a bullet/boolit is seated FURTHER OUT, then it does not develop the same pressures as one that is seated FURTHER IN. So, you could take that same 2R boolit & move it out to 1.25", like I do & you should not have too much difference in pressure & the resulting velocity to matter too much, granting you follow all of the other load data correctly. I do this to try to fit the bullet very close/into to the "leade" /where the lands & grooves start, to try to get better accuracy, among other things. ( Besides, it is easy to remember an "inch & a quarter" OAL for that round size in my 45ACP. LOL ;)

In essence, what I am saying here is that I have shown how "I" work on this part of load development & how "I" try to find OALs for what "I" am working on.
"I" take full responsibility for what "I" do, and YOU should do the same & take full responsibility for whatever YOU do in regard to YOUR load development. { < that is my disclaimer if you or anyone else screws up, BTW.}.

I hope ya find this info helpful & G'Luck! in your load development adventures!
:)

Now I think I am gonna go hit the rack again, as this flu bug is making me tired..

Semper Fi!
;)

You sir have helped me understand better and you explained it very well. Thank you for taking the time to do so even though you are feeling under the weather. I hope you feel better soon. I am going to load some more up today and hopefully get to the range soon. Semper Fi!