Make Full Wad Cutters from a Non-FWC Mold

[Andy_P]

This is an old idea that is not well known.

All you need is a mold that has one or more driving bands into which a gas check will fit snugly. Insert the gas check upside down into the hot mold (be careful!), and pour. This is a Mountain Molds Custom for the Swiss Vetterli that casts a 0.433" 355 gr Semi Wad Cutter (SWC) bullet.

212587

From this mold I am able to make five (5) different bullets that are (almost) Full Wad Cutters (FWC). I say "almost" FWC because the gas check step that is now on top is only about 0.400", not 0.433".

212588

Left to Right: 113 gr, 151 gr (two are stacked), 196 gr, 238 gr, 292 gr, and the 355 gr SWC bullet for which the mold was designed.

Note that all of the FWC bullets are oriented upside-down to what the mold was designed - that's the gas check step on top.

I stacked two 151 gr FWC's to show that in rifles with a long neck, you could load two back to back. I've done this with homemade 45 cal FWC's in the 43 Mauser. Other candidates might be 45-70 and 444 Marlin.

[OS OK]

Wouldn't it be neat to be able to get ahold of a bagful of little Cu rings you could drop into each drive band.

That's not going to make FWC's but it might make it easier to drive Pb casts much faster...then PC them?...gotta love it down here in the rabbit hole.

[dg31872]

The learning never stops on this site.
Thanks for the tip.

[Andy_P]

Wouldn't it be neat to be able to get ahold of a bagful of little Cu rings you could drop into each drive band.

That's not going to make FWC's but it might make it easier to drive Pb casts much faster...then PC them?...gotta love it down here in the rabbit hole.

AKA copper "washers"?

They could still be used with the FWC's.

[dg31872]

Maybe find copper tube right diameter and use tubing-cutter to make "rings" to preposition in the bottom of the mould. I always wondered if that would work like gas checks. Sorry about the drift.

[Andy_P]

Maybe find copper tube right diameter and use tubing-cutter to make "rings" to preposition in the bottom of the mould. I always wondered if that would work like gas checks. Sorry about the drift.

I'm sure that someone has done something like that with copper (or zinc) washers or wire or the like - probably a very long time ago, and there's a very good reason why it never took off commercially or otherwise. About all it would do is allow a (mostly) cast lead alloy bullet to be driven slightly faster. It would sear the bore a bit more quickly than pure lead alloy and wouldn't be allowed in a cast bullet competition, so it's either slow it down a bit or use jacketed.

That said, few seem to "think outside the box" anymore, so if nothing else, we learn and have fun doing it.

[OS OK]

AKA copper "washers"?

They could still be used with the FWC's.

I was thinking more along the lines of using rings, as if you had a Cu spring (or made one by wrapping Cu wire around something like a screwdriver shaft) and you cut rings from that. Depending on the gage of the wire you might use several wraps/rings to better fit the width of the drive band. If the ends are cut at a diagonal it would allow the spring/ring to collapse ([using just one ring] reducing the Cu ring OD as the mould closes) to fit the mould exactly.

I dunnoh really...just spit-wadding here...thinking about a means to make the cast 'spin up' quicker (not skid) when the drive bands hit the lands of the rifling.
Using washers or tubing you would have to fit the ID of the drive band exactly or risk holding the mould open to some extent and make 'out of round' casts.

[44MAG#1]

This same type of making wadcutter is on this site and the thread is not too old.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?352270-Custom-Length-Waductter-From-Any-Mould&p=4264960#post4264960

[OS OK]

I saw that post, they were drilling out gas checks...I was thinking of some way to duplicate the same result without hamstringing yourself with the tedious task of drilling the gas checks perfectly in their centers or distorting them.

I'm not presenting this as a new idea...just spit-wadding as I said before.

[44MAG#1]

The original post said nothing about drilling the gas check. Someone later in the thread mentioned it so a check could be placed in the drive band area to give copper drive bands to push the bullet faster.

"Just remember to keep the gas checks hot , we used to play around with this during the 1960's ...custom moulds were beyond our budgets but gas checks were cheap. Tweezers work best for handling the hot checks. Any mould can be used , we made WC's with SWC and RN moulds ..works well and when you want some WC's for a 45 Colt or auto-rim loading , it was a cheap , albeit slow way , to produce them.
We left the check in place and used it as the boolit base.

The other trick, for rifle bullets , was punching a hole through each gas check and installing a hot check in each driving band, closing the mould and casting the boolit. The object was to have every driving band copper. In theory the boolits could be shot at higher velocities. This process is called tedious ! The idea sounds good on paper . On the 30 cal boolits we fooled with a 25 cal hole was punched in each check , to let the lead through. Everything's got to be good and hot to get decent boolit .
Gary"

As I see it was the only post on drilling.
The original was the same as you are talking about.

[Andy_P]

Here you go: https://www.clipsandfasteners.com/Copper_Washer_1_4_I_D_7_16_O_D_1_32_Thick_p/a15911.htm

212597

Cost $6.05/50

Description

Bolt Size: 3/16"
Inner Diameter: 1/4"
Outer Diameter: 7/16"
Thickness: 1/32"
50 Per Package

There are probably better choices and prices out there - but I found this in about two minutes.

Just stack three or four of them per driving band location as required, reduce the outside diameter slightly if required (there are lots of ways to do that) and there you have it.

[OS OK]

You want to argue about stuff or discuss something new?

ADIOS...c h a r l i e

[44MAG#1]

I made a statement. You made a statement. How is that arguing about anything.
Since this is not something new as evidenced by a post being made concerning this very thing a while back.
I don't see where we disagreed on anything. Do you?
I pointed out the post you mentioned about drilling out gaschecks which wasn't the original post in the thread.
Sorry I upset you.

[leadman]

There was an article many years ago by Dave Scovill (I think) in Handloader about casting bullets with WILK gas checks placed in the driving band area of a bullet mold. These did have a hole in them. Dave claimed near jacketed bullet velocities with good accuracy in his rifles.
If I find the article again I'll post more info.

[Dusty Bannister]

Come on guys, none of this so far is really new except powder coating over copper. There were the old wire wound jackets, the Wilkes checks that were punched not drilled, and of course the zinc washers. It is a little early for "cabin fever" to be an issue. Rings cut from copper tubes are not a new idea either, but as you have seen, since none of these are in common use, the work perhaps exceeded the benefit. The article in handloader is titled "chicken loads" or something similar to that. It was later published in the Art of Bullet Casting which was a collection of articles from 1966 to 1981.

It doesn't hurt to re-visit these old ideas because someone might come up with a better method of installing those copper rings/washers/checks and it will be all better.

As to reducing the size of a copper washer? Anneal the washer and then push them through the Lee push through and go play with them. Let's go have some fun now.

[JBinMN]

I don't think I use any molds that this process would come into play, but I will say that I think whether old or new idea(s) using the GCs with or without a hole in it, are cool ones to know about if one wants to do it.
Whoever first came up with this idea was a pretty sharp tack, IMO.
:)

[JSnover]

Back in the 70s I read an article a about using copper tubing to make driving bands and I've been told the idea was not new, even back then.