eggy mold follow up

[porthos]

i posted this question in late november. it concerned a lyman 314299 that casts eggy. both cavaties,both nose section and driving bands. each are .0015 out of round. for those of you that have not read my november post; belive me. the mold does cast out of round. this post is to tell you of my attempe to get it round. i had to leave the project for several weeks because i became sick. first with severe gastritis that tookme a while to get to the doctor and hospital to have it diagnosed. in the middle of this illness i became sicker; and no one could figure it out. after several trips to the hospital; i asked to be tested for Lyme disease. guess what that was it. so after a lot of meds i'm about 90% now. so, back to lapping the mold cavities. after about 10 minutes in each cavity with a "T" handled tap wrench and 220 grit i can see only about .0003 change. so, this is the point where i quit. i'll buy a new custom mold. lifes too short to mess with this project.

[upnorthwis]

How do they shoot? A thou and a half out of round can do a lot of things.

[Bloodman14]

Grab a mold from NOE; you won't look back. Lyme disease is a serious matter that will have complications down the road, so get ready for them. Hope you get to feeling better.

[Tatume]

First, if you size your bullets they will become round. Second, if you shoot your bullets, they will become round when they enter the barrel. I suggest shooting them. You may be pleased.

[porthos]

i guess that it would be a good idea to shoot them first. Bloodman: tell me what you know about "complications" down the road??

[Dan Cash]

First, if you size your bullets they will become round. Second, if you shoot your bullets, they will become round when they enter the barrel. I suggest shooting them. You may be pleased.

The nose and probably the bore riding portion will not get round in the bore or sizing die. The imballance will likely have adverse effects.

[Smoke4320]

Neurological Disease
According to the American Academy of Family Physicians website FamilyDoctor.org, some symptoms of the neurological damage done by Lyme disease may include mood swings, difficulty remembering things or concentrating, a loss of memory and muscle weakness. The University of Maryland Medical Center warns that meningitis, poor motor coordination and Bell's palsy, a temporary paralysis of facial muscles, may also occur. Signs that meningitis might have taken hold in the brain include headaches and neck stiffness. Intravenous application of antibiotics for 14 to 28 days may cure the bacterial infection causing Lyme disease, although symptoms may take longer to dissipate. The standard antibiotics used in the treatment of late stage Lyme disease include ceftriaxone and penicillin.

Heart Problems
Fewer than 10 percent of infected people develop heart problems, according to the University of Maryland Medical Center. Heart problems associated with Lyme disease include irregularities in heart rhythm, including heart palpitations or a slowing of the heart rate. Less obvious symptoms of heart issues caused by Lyme disease include lightheadedness, shortness of breath and fainting. Chest pain may also occur in some individuals.
Arthritis
A specific type of arthritis named Lyme arthritis may develop in some individuals exposed to Lyme disease, explains MayoClinic.com. The arthritis from Lyme disease often strikes the knees and arthritic attacks can last up to a few months at a time. During an attack, joints may feel painful and start to swell. Antibiotics may be used to treat chronic Lyme disease that presents with arthritis symptoms. Pain medication, especially non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, and siphoning fluid from swollen joints can help ease sore, arthritic joints. According to the University of Maryland Medical Center, approximately 60 percent of untreated people with Lyme disease will go on to develop arthritis and for 10 to 20 percent, the arthritis will be chronic.

Numbness
According to the Centers for Disease Control “...up to 5% of untreated patients may develop chronic neurological complaints months to years after infection.” This means that you may experience pain that can be sharp or shooting that can travel from the hands to the feet. This pain may or may not be accompanied by numbness, weakness and tingling sensations.

Cognitive Symptoms
Other neurological symptoms include impaired thinking, problems with memory and trouble concentrating. You may develop vision problems and symptoms similar to meningitis. The American Lyme Disease Association states that in some cases paralysis of the facial muscles can also occur.
Severe Neurological Symptoms
In the later stages of Lyme disease you may become disoriented, confused and experience dizziness. You may develop short-term memory loss and an inability to participate in a conversation. The Lyme Disease Foundation, Inc. recommends being on the lookout for a loss of reflexes, lazy eye, extreme weakness of any of the muscles in the body, seizures, personality changes and severe headaches.

Foods to Include
In a publication of the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society, Dr. Joesph J. Burrascano recommends that people recovering from Lyme disease eat meals high in protein and fiber, but low in simple carbohydrates and fat. Include meat, fish, poultry, eggs, tofu as well as milk and milk products such as cheese and yogurt that are rich in protein in your meals. Add a side of green vegetables and salads such as spinach, celery, kale, collards, mustard greens, cilantro and parsley to your meal. Make fiber-rich fruits such as grapefruit, lemons, limes, tomatoes, avocado, pears, apples and strawberries part of your diet.
Foods to Avoid
While caffeine-free and sugar-free sodas can be part of your diet if you have Lyme disease, you should avoid alcohol and caffeine-containing beverages like coffee and regular soda. Do not consume drinks that are naturally sweet such as fruit juices, or sodas and other beverages sweetened with sugar or syrups advises Dr. Joesph J. Burrascano. Additionally, foods rich starch such as rice, pasta, potatoes, cakes, breads and cookies should also be avoided.

[Green Frog]

I'm not Bloodman, but I'll mention that a lot of those complications come from untreated Lyme Disease, after it seems to have gone away. Then you get symptoms that mimic all sorts of other disorders like Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, etc, etc. An aggressive treatment with antibiotics (the earlier the better, of course) seems to head off a lot of the complications. I've had several friends who had to deal with Lyme, including a high school classmate who died at about the age of 65 from undiagnosed Lyme... they didn't figure it out until about the time he passed away. OTOH, it appears that the more aggressively (and earlier) it is treated, the less long term effect it will have. I sincerely wish you all the best.

As for that .0012" out of roundness in your mould... as others have said, running it through your sizing die will probably take care of that. What is your intended use for that bullet? Will you be going for all out, long distance accuracy or something a little more mundane? I'm guessing that even a thou or so out of roundness in your bullets won't be noticeable at 100 yds from a military grade 303 rifle, for instance. Longer distances or more precise shooting scenarios will of course magnify the effects.

Froggie

PS While I was away at the dermatologist, I see that a much better discourse by someone obviously more knowledgeable than I was posted during my interruption. What I said about the disorder is still true and my well wishes for your recovery even more so. GF

[Tatume]

The nose and probably the bore riding portion will not get round in the bore or sizing die. The imbalance will likely have adverse effects.

I doubt there will be much effect. I doubt even more if what effect there is will be detectable. I've had many molds that dropped bullets a little bit wider across the seam than perpendicular to the seam. Whether it was my fault or the mold, I stopped worrying about it when they shot just fine.

[Tatume]

P.s., People here often "beagle" molds to get a little more diameter. These result in out-of-round bullets too, but they shoot just fine.

[Bloodman14]

looks like Smoke and Green Frog beat me to it. I work odd hours, so I post when I can. My day starts at midnight!

[Rcmaveric]

Wonder if adjusting the alignment pins then lapping the mold would bring it back into round.

[Dusty Bannister]

Wonder if adjusting the alignment pins then lapping the mold would bring it back into round.

No where has it been determined if the mold blocks are not aligned. That is just a simple cast and measure with a mic. It will also determine if the mold casts fat at the seams or at 90 degrees from the seam and was cut shallow or deep in the mold blocks.

Cast some visually perfect bullets. Orient the mold seam at 12 and 6. With a micrometer, measure from 11 to 5 and 7 to 1. Write down the numbers for reference. If they are not equal, the blocks are not correctly aligned. Measure from 9 to 3 and determine if that measurement equals the average of the other two measurements or is larger or smaller. Now you know where to start.

This will tell you how much the blocks are out of alignment, and how fat or skinny across the blocks. Do not measure on the seams in the event that a bit of flashing is present. If you can see the seam, then you can probably measure it, and there is a possible error in your method. Good luck and tell us what you really have.

[leadman]

Have you shot these bullets yet? I have the same mold that cast about the same dimensions out of round and it shoots just fine. In my 30-06 I can get 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards with around 2,500 fps. It does around the same at lower velocity in a Mosin Nagant and a Jap 99.

[porthos]

OK Dusty. here's what i have .
measured at 11 and 5 =.3036
measured at 7 and 1 = .3022
measured at 9 and 3 = .3031
.3036 + .3022 divided by 2 =.3029

where do i go from here? the blocks (with the handles off) have no play and no daylight. what if i drove the pins a little tighter to make the blocks a little "sticky" when opening

[NoZombies]

.303 seems pretty small for a 314 mold... what part of the bullet is that measurement?

[Dusty Bannister]

measured at 11 and 5 =.3036
measured at 7 and 1 = .3022
measured at 9 and 3 = .3031

This is the nose diameter?
.3036" and .3022" shows a difference of .0014" so if you adjusted the block pins to loosen the pin on one side and tighten the pin on the other side you could pull the contact points of the pins on the sockets to reduce that .0014". You only need about .0007" movement, (half that total per block) and there is probably a sticky on how that works. Once the blocks are evened up, you would have a nose diameter of about .3029" which is pretty close to the .3031" you already have and without any additional lapping.

Can you see how shifting the blocks will make more difference than lapping the cavities? I have not really had to do that on my molds because I am not quite that OC on bullet diameters. The way the lands twist, seems to encircle the nose and give it even support even if the nose is a little oval. Fit to the lands will probably have more affect than whether the bullet is actually round at the start. Your mold, your decision. At least you have proved that the mold is not cut that far out of round.

[porthos]

thanks dusty; i'll have to put my thinking hat on to figure this out. it does make some sense though. i'll "shelve" this project for a while. when i get back to it; i'll "wack" one pin to see what happens.

[Walter Laich]

1st: I applaud your efforts on figuring out how to make this mold work

and I know neither $$ nor molds grow on trees

but and this is just me speaking here, I would have moved on to either a new Lyman mold or a different company's mold

I get immense enjoyment from casting and PC the resulting bullets, the reloading process and of course, shooting them and at some point this type of problem can best be solved by 'dropping back 10 and punting the ball'

but this is just me--good luck on making this work for you