Sighting in

[fatelk]

How many rounds does it typically take to sight in a new rifle?

I've noticed a trend lately at the range. First, about 9 out of ten people at the rifle range are carrying an AR of some variety. Young, old, male, female; everyone has an AR.

Second, it seems to take some people hundreds of rounds to sight in. I sat next to a guy recently shooting an AR carbine with a big brake- huge fireball and concussion at each trigger pull. He'd empty a 30 round magazine over a couple minutes time, then fiddle with his sights. Another magazine then fiddle with the sights more. Finally he triumphantly proclaimed it was sighted in to his satisfaction. When he left I picked up 400 pieces of 5.56 brass off the ground.

Another time I went shooting with a friend. I was shooting my rifle and he was shooting his. He went through several boxes of ammo and I could see he was getting frustrated. I asked what was wrong and he said he just couldn't get it sighted in. I helped him and we had it done within a few rounds. It wasn't hard; he just didn't know how to do it. I would have helped the guy the other day too, but he seemed pretty self confident and enjoying himself, so I just minded my own business.

Nothing against ARs, really. I have a couple myself, even though they're not really my thing. It just seems funny that EVERYONE has one nowadays. When I started shooting 30+ years ago, a box of 30-06 ammo had to last me a while, now most people I see go through a 30 round magazine faster than I used to go through a single round.

[M-Tecs]

3 to 5 rounds

[Minerat]

Pretty easy with 3 round for a scoped rifle. From good rest fire 1 shot at center of targe.

Move rifle so scope cross hairs cover hole from fist shot and secure the rifle so it can not be easily moved. Adjust cross hairs to where you want the next round to impact as if you were shooting at center of target again.

Aim rifle at center of target and fire second shot. If you were careful to not move the rifle when adjusting the cross hairs then you should be on target. Third shot is to confirm second shot. If you did it right then the following shots should be for fun or fine tuning.

[country gent]

Something to consider. In a NRA High power rifle match you get 2 sighters at each stage to zero the rifle. Granted most competitors have very close zeros for each stage but still its 2 sighters. Most use one to adjust fine tune and the second as a prover.

With a solid set up knowing your sight and graduations on a grid lined target 1 shot and a full correction should be very close. A good spotting scope is a big help zeroing the rifle as it makes the corrections needed easy to see from the firing line. Some get confused by the moa graduations and think 1/8 moa or 1/4 moa is inches and range dosnt matter. Some just like "playing" and others may still be in the learning curve.

Its interesting to watch shooter zero a fire arm. Ive given club member the simple formula for figuring sight corrections for iron sights and they were amazed it worked. error" X sight radious" / range in inches.

[tommag]

If I can see through the bbl, such as an ar15, bolt action, etc., I look through the bbl at a point 20 or so yards away and adjust the cross hairs to that point. A couple shots after doing that at 100, I just correct the cross hairs to finish sighting in, then a few more shots to confirm the zero.

[fatelk]

Yep, you guys know how to do it. It's really not hard to do if you know what you're doing.

More than once I've had people give me real funny looks when I've got a rifle sitting on sand bags with the bolt out, eyeballing through the bore and adjusting the scope. They ask me what I'm doing and seem confused when I tell them I'm bore-sighting because I mounted a scope.

Invariably it's "You can do that without a bore-sighting tool?" Then people seem surprised when the first shot is a couple inches from the bullseye. I've never owned a bore sighting tool, never needed one.

[Minerat]

Yup, I usually bore sight from the kitchen table on a knot hole on the back fence before going to the range. Sure saves ammo.

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiOpQY2ORo4

[lefty o]

takes 2 rnds, but dont complain. just pickup the brass they leave behind.

[tigweldit]

3 to 5 rounds to get sighted in. Then another 150 to 200 rounds to make sure I'm right, and for some fun trigger time.

[TXGunNut]

In theory, two. In practice, three. My "bore sighter" is a piece of painters' tape on a shed on the other side of the driveway.
When I see someone chasing their zero around on a warm day I'll suggest they let it cool, on a hot day it's a whole 'nuther matter.

[fcvan]

The military uses a sighting target to zero for 300yds using a 25 yd target with grid marks and adjustment instructions. You get 9 rounds; 3 for windage - adjust; 3 for elevation; and 3 to confirm. You are allowed 18 rounds so if you don't get it right the first time you can repeat. After that, I think you get to take your rifle and ruck on a 20 mile sight seeing tour to help the rifle get over having failed. Black rifles have feelings too. I think once the rifle feels better you get another 18 rounds. I didn't serve but have friends who have and that was sort of how it was explained to me!

[birch]

I am a fan of old school black rifles. With that being said, it is very easy to go through a couple of mags sighting in an iron sight fixed carry handle AR. There are two sights to get straight--the front one for elevation, and the rear sight for windage. Plus, some AR's are 3-4 inch guns. I have no problem with making an adjustment and shooting a 5 shot group......make another adjustment.....shoot a 5 shot group.

Um.....and there is also the part about being at a rifle range and loving the act of actually shooting a gun. Maybe these fellers aren't making adjustments. Maybe they are just petting their weapons and saying, "Thank you rifle......thank you for being so awesome!".

[725]

Many don't know the craft. Many won't ask for help. And, ........ there are a few guns that just won't get sighted in because of mechanical issues (loose scope mounts, mixed ammo type, improper eye relief - parallax, etc). Can't tell you how many times I've been on the line and the shooter types in question can't figure out why their .30 cal, 110 gr. .30-06 doesn't shoot to the same POI with their 220 gr. ammo.

[higgins]

Some can't get sighted in because they lack shooting skills, so their shots are everywhere to begin with. They keep shooting and adjusting sights and shots keep going everywhere. Sometimes they don't use any kind of rest, and other times it's something useless. Because "groups" are fired five to ten rounds rapid, by this point the rifle is so hot that it is shifting POI on its own. I'll try to help someone if they ask, but I'm not going to butt in and offer unsolicited help.

Several years ago I watched a shooter keep turning the scope adjustment and moving shots further from the center. Never occurred to him to turn the knob in the other direction; he had convinced himself he was turning it in the correct direction despite what he was seeing on the target. Some are beyond help.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

While we are on the subject, I have got to throw this in the mix. Sighting in is no problem if you just watch how it is done in the movies. A good example is The Shooter with Mark Walberg. He portrays an expert Army sniper and is recruited to do some phony set up for some bad guys who want to kill some politician or whatever. He goes to make sure his rifle is on target and sets a soda can on a stump at about 300 yards. When he looks through the scope he does not place the cross hairs on the can but instead places them about three inches low. He then reaches for the elevation knob and gives it three clicks. You can see the cross hairs move up until they are centered on the can, he pulls the trigger and viola, the can explodes. He uses this method throughout the movie. Whenever a scope is used in a movie they always show the cross hairs move. Many years ago I had a very old scope and it would be sighted in and the cross hairs would be off center but they solved that problem many decades ago. I have seen the problem with the AR owners trying to site in there new treasure and it is indeed sad to watch. One time in particular and young man and wife came to the range and had the bench next to me. I could see right away that they had no idea what they were doing or needed to do. I asked if I could help and they were glad to agree. I sat down and looked through the peep sight. I looked like you were simply looking out a picture window. I told them, this will never work. I could see there was a smaller peep sight that flipped up into place. Once the smaller peep was in in place it was little trouble to get the rifle on target. The man who sold them the rifle never told them how the sights worked or much of anything for that matter.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Delete this post please.

[Down South]

Usually around four rds. Just put a new scope on my 10/22 to sight in tomorrow.

[fatelk]

I've been a newbie before, not knowing how things work, frustrated and not understanding things that are second nature for the old timers. It's not always easy to ask for help. I feel a little bad for not trying to help the guy who burned through 400 rounds sighting in his AR. He did seem to be enjoying himself though, and I am hesitant to butt into someone else's business.

Having tinkered with guns. shooting, and reloading for decades, it's easy to forget what it's like to be starting out clueless. One of the frustrating things I've run into is clueless newbies who think they know it all because they watched some Youtube videos.

[Hossfly]

Watched the video Artful put up, that’s how I check mine every once in a while , works. If you can pull bolt and look thru bore hole at something further than your target you will be better off, I’ve even bore sighted on the moon before but you got to be fast cause something is movin.

[Artful]

Post removed by user

[fatnhappy]

My most recent rifle, 9 rounds. It was not an ideal set up either.

[Tom W.]

First, I don't have an AR.....

Not too long ago my wife and I went to the range so I could sight in my Ruger #1 B in 30-06 A.I.
The range is limited to 100 yards. I put a green sticker on the 8 ring above the 10 ring. Now, I haven't fired that rifle in about 5 years. I set up everything, including my spotting scope, and fired a round. it was miserably low but the windage was fine. The second round impacted on the first. I was aiming at the 10 ring. I adjusted the elevation and the third shot was in the 10. This made me happy. I moved the elevation a bit more, still aiming at the 10 ring, and when I fired the green sticker developed a hole. I tried again with the same results. I happily put away my A.I. loads and fired a box or two of fire forming loads, not really caring where they hit as long as it was on the target. When I put the rifle away I went to the pistol range and fired my SRH .44 Rem Mag. That was another thing that I hadn't fired in years, and was really hesitant due to how much I've weakened since my cancer episodes and chemo. I was pleased to see that the SRH didn't hurt me at all, and I was actually hitting POA. With my neuropathy I was very concerned.....

[glockfan]

3 to 5 rounds

exactly. my part time job at the range during the fall season is sighting hunter's rifles for the ones who aren't regular shooters or who feel the need for someone else doing it for them.

3 rounds is where it's at. however, i always takes extra care to make sure the rifle will hit POA with a cold bore. most of the time, the killing shot is done with a cold bore, and those sporter barrel are thin ,so i may let the gun cooling to near cold to make the final adjustment because some old barrels may see the POI moving when heat is on..then ,sometimes i may use 4-5 rounds to make sure all is set proprerly.

if after 5 rounds POI is still not stable, i pull my tool box and bore sighter out to check for a defective scope-rings...and what not

[Rcmaveric]

Depends.... New scope/ Rifle build: Bore sight on the 25 yard line and then take a shot. Then move it to an inch high. Test shot. If its an inch high I move to the 50 yard. Take a shot to see where the bullet hits. If its satisfactory and still a bit high I move to the 100 yard line. I take 5 shots. See where the center of the group is. Then adjust to move the center of the group to POA, repeat as much as necessary. Once I have the center of my groups around POA. Every round after that is practice. Normal takes me less than 25 shots total. Practicing I shoot off 50 plus rounds. At seven cents a round I no longer care how many shots I take. why I went to cast bullets.

If checking zero. I just take 5 shots at 100 yards. Then 5 shots at 200 yards.

Side not, I always have to ask for help to sight in my irons sites. I always forget if you chase or follow shots with iron sights. I can spend a whole day getting annoyed with iron sights. I do need more practice with them. I am horrid with riffle iron sights.

[richhodg66]

If I can see through the bbl, such as an ar15, bolt action, etc., I look through the bbl at a point 20 or so yards away and adjust the cross hairs to that point. A couple shots after doing that at 100, I just correct the cross hairs to finish sighting in, then a few more shots to confirm the zero.

The last time I RSO's at our range, had two different shooters with scoped ARs that couldn't get it on paper. I don't own an AR, but was in the Army and knew how to take the upper off and remove the bolt, the bore sighted it just like I would a bolt action rifle. Both parties were very friendly and appreciative and one even said he would have been there a long time and burned up a bunch of ammo getting that done.

[Hickory]

I have done it with one shot.

I was bore sightings a scope I had just put on my 700 Rem.
Everything looked good. I put in the bolt and one round to put it on paper when a crow landed in front of my backstop, I put the crosshairs on the crow and squeezed the trigger and was rewarded with a puff of feathers. Called it good enough.

[rl69]

Depends.... New scope/ Rifle build: Bore sight on the 25 yard line and then take a shot. Then move it to an inch high. Test shot. If its an inch high I move to the 50 yard. Take a shot to see where the bullet hits. If its satisfactory and still a bit high I move to the 100 yard line. I take 5 shots. See where the center of the group is. Then adjust to move the center of the group to POA, repeat as much as necessary. Once I have the center of my groups around POA. Every round after that is practice. Normal takes me less than 25 shots total. Practicing I shoot off 50 plus rounds. At seven cents a round I no longer care how many shots I take. why I went to cast bullets.

If checking zero. I just take 5 shots at 100 yards. Then 5 shots at 200 yards.

Side not, I always have to ask for help to sight in my irons sites. I always forget if you chase or follow shots with iron sights. I can spend a whole day getting annoyed with iron sights. I do need more practice with them. I am horrid with riffle iron sights.

Me too. I'll set up at twenty five,make three shoots adjust accordingly.move out to hundred fire three more, adjust,fire three more for fun.

Checking zero, I fire three at a hundred adjust if necessary.

[rl69]

I have watched shooters chase boolits all over the paper. For the most part their confidence in their ability far surpasses their actual ability.

I know my limitations that's why I take three shots and move the average.