Please identify basis chemistry of these alloys

[Naphtali]

I am determined to attempt to create cast soft-nosed bullets whose noses do not shatter. I have several possible methods. I'll try the least expensive, least difficult method first.
***
In Beartooth Bullets Technical Notes, "Quench-Anneal: A Process for Soft Nose Cast Bullets," the author identifies three casting alloys with which he was successful. "Of the many alloys I tried, the three reported upon here produced the optimum results. They are: 1/3 linotype and 2/3 pure lead, 11% linotype with a BHN of 18 plus 89% wheel weights, and 11% linotype with a BHN of 22 plus 89% wheel weights."

Please identify [any/all of] these alloys by their basis chemistry -- that is, what proportions of chemicals for each alloy? I do not know what "wheel weights" are. Their chemistry seems to change with the weather.

[rusty marlin]

check your PM's.
Rusty

[wiljen]

I'm not sure anyone is going to be able to give you a precise chemical analysis of those alloys as composition is variable in wheel weights and it appears that you have 2 different compositions of linotype involved as he states 2 different BHNs. I would suspect that the BHN 22 Linotype has slightly more antimony than the 18 BHN variety but as to exactly how much difference - it would be a guess at best.

The fact that he found 11% linotype + WW to be amongst the best alloys using both types of Linotype leads me to think that the range of alloys that should work would fall between: 3.5 and 5.5% antimony and .5 and 1% tin.

[rusty marlin]

Linotype is a specific alloy of 4Sn, 12Sb and 84Pb. I'd be more inclined to believe the different hardness values were from different storage methods and age hardening or softening, than from a different alloy.

If it was stated as "type metal" with 2 different hardnesses then I would be lead down the logical path of two different alloys.

[wiljen]

I was assuming the writer listed the two as separate experiments because he knew they had some differences in composition. Otherwise the BHN pre-melting and mixing with ww is pretty immaterial to the end results I would think.

[cbrick]

Actually there could be more variation in the lino than in WW depending how old and how well used it is. New lino is 12% antimony but depending how many times and how correctly it has been fluxed it could well be depleted of a portion of both antimony and/or tin.

If it's years old (used in a print shop) it could have been fluxed hundreds of times and who's to say it was always done correctly or the guy doing it cared a hoot?

Rick

[John Boy]

1/3 linotype and 2/3 pure lead
BHN 10.61
Tin = 1.32 %
Antimony = 3.96 %
Lead = 94.72 %

11% linotype with a BHN of 18 plus 89% wheel weights
Used WW Bhn as 14.3
BHN = 14.707
Tin = 0.66 %
Antimony = 3.99 %
Lead = 95.35 %

11% linotype with a BHN of 22 plus 89% wheel weights
Used WW Bhn as 14.3
BHN = 15.147
Tin = 0.66 %
Antimony = 3.99 %
Lead = 95.35 %

With over 800#'s of WW ingots, mine are either 14.3 or 15.5 BHN - so I picked the 14.3. The harder WW's won't matter much in the calculations

[hyoder]

Any alloy containing antimony will tend to be frangible. I would think you'd want to use an alloy of lead with no more than a small percentage of tin - 1 - 2%. BPMC shooters avoid antimony. They want the bullet to bump up without breaking up. A pure lead paper patched bullet will mushroom very nicely.

[Glen]

Paco Kelly likes to water drop his WW bullets, then stand them up in a pan of water deep enough to cover all of the bearing surface, then hit the noses with a propane torch to soften them. He claims it works extremely well (and Paco knows what he's talking about!).

[Naphtali]

I'm getting useful information from you all. I think I should furnish a link to the article I mentioned. Here it is.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/35

[wiljen]

Linotype is a specific alloy of 4Sn, 12Sb and 84Pb. I'd be more inclined to believe the different hardness values were from different storage methods and age hardening or softening, than from a different alloy.



Having read the article now and seeing as the final product had the same hardness regardless of starting with 18 BHN or 22 BHN linotype, I suspect you're right on that one.

[pdawg_shooter]

If you want a soft nose bullet, cast the entire bullet soft, size to bore dia, and paper patch back up to grove dia. Full power loads, no leading and great accuracy.

[.45Cole]

My vote for The Glen Method. All that I have read points to this. Never tried it (actually never melted lead.. yet .......waiting.........not patiently..........can't stand it) Lyman says this is a good way (WW + a little tin (2%w/w)roughly) also i don't see how the chemical components would help, not like wally world will sell someone 100065.692g of antimony.

[Naphtali]

If you want a soft nose bullet, cast the entire bullet soft, size to bore dia, and paper patch back up to grove dia. Full power loads, no leading and great accuracy.Please describe this technique in detail, or furnish links to detailed "how-to." I have zero knowledge of what you've mentioned. But I'm willing to attempt something that works.