Lead hardness question.

[PhantomRider64]

A couple of weeks ago I poured some ingots. After they had cooled (about 60*)I tested the hardness with my LEE tester, the all showed to be around 8 Brinnel. Today I tested the same ingots (about 70*), in the same area, and they all showed to be around 19 Brinnel. Is this normal? If not what might I have done wrong?

[brewer12345]

Antimony rich alloys tend to harden over time. So if this was wheelweights, linotype, etc. it would make sense to see an increase in hardness.

[RogerDat]

Gradually harder over time if hardness is alloy derived, soften over time if heat treating or water quenching is source of hardness. Lot of discussion about how much over how long but rule of thumb I recall is 2 weeks for alloy to settle into something close to it's final hardness if air cooled.

[PhantomRider64]

I am unsure of the composition of the lead. I got it from work out of a cable stripping machine that we rebuilt. The pieces were very easy to bend, maybe 1/16" thick. They were air cooled.
I will check them again in a week or two. If the same when I get a mold, soon, I will cast and shoot them and see how they do in the barrel.
I have a bit over 200# so it will make a good many 255gr bullets.

Thanks for the info.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[Grmps]

Age and quench hardening are facts, this requires antimony and arsenic to be most effective; but, from 8 to 19bhn overnight without quenching in between... I think there might be something askew and we need a little more information
You're not going to bend 19p bhn easily.

Before casting lead boolits for any firearm, you need to slug the barrel so you know the diameter of the boolit (mold) you will need to cast and size for optimal shooting and minimal/no leading in that firearm.
type slung a barrel in the google custom search near the top right of the forum page. (that is your gateway to all the information on this forum)
what are you intending to shoot these boolits out of?

[trapper9260]

I did a test myself to see about the bhn on some alloy I made up and found that it take about a week to get a better reading of the bhn. then it is about the same after that. that is for air cool i do.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have to agree. that's a big swing in hardness over night. ive seen them gain 3-5bhn over a month period but nothing that drastic
Age and quench hardening are facts, this requires antimony and arsenic to be most effective; but, from 8 to 19bhn overnight without quenching in between... I think there might be something askew and we need a little more information
You're not going to bend 19p bhn easily.

Before casting lead boolits for any firearm, you need to slug the barrel so you know the diameter of the boolit (mold) you will need to cast and size for optimal shooting and minimal/no leading in that firearm.
type slung a barrel in the google custom search near the top right of the forum page. (that is your gateway to all the information on this forum)
what are you intending to shoot these boolits out of?

[PhantomRider64]

The time between testing was two weeks not overnight. I thought it was a bit of a change myself, The only difference in the two tests is that the first test was in my shop @ about 40* ambient temp and the second was in my work room in the house @ about 70* ambient.

I plan to cast .45 Colt (250gn SWC) and .45 ACP (230gn RNFP).

The firearms that I will be using these bullets in are a Colt 1911, Ruger SR-45, and Uberti SAA clone. I plan to slug these guns,,,maybe today since the weather is too cold to be working outside,,,

[243winxb]

If you can mark it with a finger nail, its to soft.

[mdi]

Just a thought; I, like many others, had a hard time using the Lee microscope that came with my tester. After trying several"fixes" I just went to my magnifying visor and calipers. With good strong lighting I can easily measure the dent with my calipers looking through the 4x visor...

I would think the increase of 11 BHN to be quite a bit, excessive?

[bangerjim]

In all my years of remelting, mixing, casting lead alloys, I have never seen something go from 8 to 19 in a few days just sitting there!

I do not trust the Lee tester at all. I hate that squinty little microscope. I gave mine away years ago. I now use the Cabine tester which is much faster, more accurate, and easily readable, especially with the LCD digital readout I put on it. And accuracy/repeatability has been verfied with my lab hardness testers.

I would suggest rechecking the dimple and the microscope! It's a lot like fishing......"ya gotta hold yer mouth jes right"! HA......ha!

Banger

[Edward]

My Lee tester works great for me 12 yrs +or - however if I remember correctly it states do not test ingots but a boolit and file a flat on boolit and it will work just fine ! And another thing to consider is your tester is for comparison only ,meanin a bench mark for future comparison . if my test says BHN is 8 it is soft and all future tests reading 8 will also be soft . 19 is pretty hard but new batchs same mix will also be 19 (see not so hard) Ed

[lightman]

If your sample in original form was easy to bend I would expect a low reading, maybe even less than 8. But a swing from 8 to 19 makes me suspect an error in your testing. Thats wider than I have seen before. Even with the time frame and temp difference, thats a lot. I usually test a sample more than once if I suspect anything is not right.

A 200# score is a good haul! Thats what happens when one keeps his eyes open!

[Grmps]

lee hardness tester easy jig
drill hole slightly larger than tester in a piece of wood
screw/nail 3 pieces of wood together
slide tester in the drilled hole
flatted tip of boolit with file, course then fine to get smooth finish
"dimple/test" tip of boolit, set boolit in jig (sometimes I set the boolit on a piece of paper to make it easier to slide/center) and lower lee tester to just above to boolit so you can still move it
align graduation marks with the dimple (a light shining in the side helps.)
*don't cut the grove in the base, I was laying the boolits down but standing up was much easier to line up boolit with scope*
https://i.imgur.com/Fksjtza.jpg?1
I've seen somewhere that a member cut a hole in the bottom of a paper cup for the tester and cut a notch out of the side to the boolit and light to get in.

Lee expanded hardness test chart
https://i.imgur.com/XvUEE08.png?1

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Checking alloy hardness on ingots can be problematic, due to differing conditions effecting the speed of cooling.

Also, Technique is everything when trying to get repeatable readings with the Lee hardness tester.

[waco]

In all my years of remelting, mixing, casting lead alloys, I have never seen something go from 8 to 19 in a few days just sitting there!

I do not trust the Lee tester at all. I hate that squinty little microscope. I gave mine away years ago. I now use the Cabine tester which is much faster, more accurate, and easily readable, especially with the LCD digital readout I put on it. And accuracy/repeatability has been verfied with my lab hardness testers.

I would suggest rechecking the dimple and the microscope! It's a lot like fishing......"ya gotta hold yer mouth jes right"! HA......ha!

Banger

He never said a couple of days. Reread his post. It was two weeks.

[Traffer]

There is a member here by the name of BNE. He can xray test alloy for composition. (If he still does it) He does not charge but asks for 1lb of soft lead as a trade for his service. It you have it tested you will know exactly what is in it and can calculate the hardness. I suspect it is very tin rich maybe bismouth also. Since those are common components of solder. Let us know what you find out.

[PhantomRider64]

This is all very good info.

When I was casting the ingots I cast a few .454 balls to slug my guns with. The slugging went well and afterwards I tested those balls. They came in around 13 brinell.

If all else fails I will PC.

The learning journey continues,,,

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[Lloyd Smale]

ive owned a seaco, lbt and cabin tree tester. I got rid of the other two and just have the cabintree unit know. ALL of them are better used to compare alloys then put an exact number on them. When I had all three I would many times test the same batch of bullets with all three of them and get readings that varied as much as 5bhn between them on some alloys and the next day get the same reading from two of them on a different alloy. With the lbt and seaco I could get different readings on the same alloy testing them a day apart. Out of all three the cabintree was the most consistent but I still wouldn't call an alloy that tested 12bhn to be 12bhn without a doubt. Never used the lee so I cant comment on it but have seen how it works and id about bet the same could be said about it.
In all my years of remelting, mixing, casting lead alloys, I have never seen something go from 8 to 19 in a few days just sitting there!

I do not trust the Lee tester at all. I hate that squinty little microscope. I gave mine away years ago. I now use the Cabine tester which is much faster, more accurate, and easily readable, especially with the LCD digital readout I put on it. And accuracy/repeatability has been verfied with my lab hardness testers.

I would suggest rechecking the dimple and the microscope! It's a lot like fishing......"ya gotta hold yer mouth jes right"! HA......ha!

Banger

[mdi]

For me at least it ain't no big deal. I cast boolits quite successfully for mebbe 18 years before I got a tester for Christmas. My alloy was a mix of wheel weights (80%) and range scrap. The only thing I found necessary was bullet to gun fit...

[bangerjim]

He never said a couple of days. Reread his post. It was two weeks.

A few days.......2 weeks.....same difference. I NEVER take reliable hardness tests on cast Pb alloys for at least a month. That way all the metallurgy has pretty much leveled out. Key is to not rush things!!!!

Banger

[Grmps]

This is all very good info.

When I was casting the ingots I cast a few .454 balls to slug my guns with. The slugging went well and afterwards I tested those balls. They came in around 13 brinell.

If all else fails I will PC.

The learning journey continues,,,

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

13 bhn is harder than you need for 45 acp & 45 colt (depending on how fast you intend to push the colt)

Easy way to hardness test and double check the Lee is using the pencil method

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php%3F75455-Testing-hardness-with-pencils&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiqh8SbytjYAhVFHGMKHZMfBXAQFggFMAA&client=internal-uds-cse&cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885:1942134700&usg=AOvVaw0om8dF50K_2bkRqEzedDgt


I'm a big fan of PC & HiTek, hate lube/mess/... have new lube-sizer I've only used twice.