327 federal heavy bullets [Archive]

megasupermagnum

01-10-2018, 11:23 PM

I started a thread like this before, and got a lot of good replies. I've been shooting a 120 grain SWC plain base in my Ruger LCR with both 700x and Bluedot, and it's very accurate. I've been waiting about a month now for a Henry 327 federal I ordered from the local gun shop, and it's given me way too much time to think. It seems that the lever gun does not allow a cartridge OAL nearly as long as my LCR will. I've heard multiple reports now that the Henry will only handle an OAL that is slightly longer than the book max. My SWC's are quite a bit longer. I've been eyeballing the Accurate mold 31-135S for a while now, and would like that but with a gas check. It's a shame the 32 cal bullets are so light. The 327 seems to be at home around 115 grains, 100 grains is light for caliber IMO, but those 1500+ FPS velocities from a revolver look nice on paper. I think 135 grains with some slow powder in a rifle could be a mean combo. Has anyone else done something similar? I'm looking to push these to the max, although I never sacrifice accuracy for speed. I've always got H110, although I never seem to like it that much. Besides 2400, I've been checking out two powders that I think could work well. IMR 4227 and Alliant Power Pro 300-MP. I'm looking for load data if anyone has any for a bullet this heavy. Any input on powders is appreciated.

Guesser

01-11-2018, 11:37 AM

All my 327 revolvers prefer my hand cast 311316 GC. Comes in at 115-116 from my self formulated alloy. I load it with A#9 or 2400. Seems to do what I want. I have 100 gr. Rainier plated, they work but seem to shoot a little wider group than the heavier. Latest issue of Handloader has a great article on 327 and the wide, wide velocity variation in the 327. I've noticed differences of felt recoil and sound but I don't own nor need a chrono. I haven't read and reread the article yet, but it looks interesting.

JPinMI

01-11-2018, 12:00 PM

I’ve been using the Accurate 31-125FG with red dot (since I have so much) in both my SP101 4” and my LCR. It is a gas check. I’ve wondered as well if the Henry would handle it. Very easy shooting with 3 gr of the red dot but I’m just a plinker. I believe I’m getting fairly close to 125 gr as cast with wheel weights + tin and love the cartridge and wide meplat. I’m traveling now and don’t recall COAL, but had some suspicions of the Henry not being able to handle it

Outpost75

01-11-2018, 12:03 PM

This data for .32 S&W Long gives you a safe place to start with Alliant #2400 in the .327 with heavier bullets:

.32 S&W Long Factory Loads Vs. Alliant #2400 In Revolvers and Rifle
Remington cases, Federal 200 primers in all handloads:

Ammo Type________________Colt 2”__________Colt 4”___________H&R18”

PMC 98 LRN factory_________687, 13 Sd_______797, 17Sd________945, 16 Sd

Accurate 31-114D, 6.3 #2400__768, 22Sd_______839, 37 Sd________1205, 22 Sd

Accurate 31-125D, 6.3 #2400__820, 19Sd_______890 19 Sd_________1240, 29 Sd

Accurate 31-134D, 6.3 #2400__828, 19 Sd_______913, 16 Sd________1221, 16 Sd
Ejected cases fall out easily, clean burn, accurate, recoil similar to .38 Special +P.

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megasupermagnum

01-11-2018, 01:56 PM

megasupermagnum

01-23-2018, 11:32 PM

I finally got the rifle, and took all the measurements I need to order a custom mold. I'm still shooting for 135-140 grains. I've decided on a SSK design, one I've shot in 44 mag and liked. It has a slightly smaller meplat, which after WAY more research than necessary, should work well at higher velocities. I'm looking to scale down the Penn 320 gr SSK 44 cal bullet speciffically, although I want to make it a GC bullet. I don't have anyway to estimate weight, but by comparison to other bullets of a similar design and length, it should be right in the 135-140 gr range.

dougader

01-24-2018, 12:13 AM

Green Frog

01-24-2018, 12:36 PM

I ordered an early example of the NOE 314008, their adaptation of the old Ideal 3118 for the 32-20. Mine was a plain base version and with COWWs + a smidge of tin they consistently drop at 125 grains rather than the planned 115 grain bullet weight. This was absolutely fine with me as I needed a little extra weight in my 327 FM loads. This same bullet design is now a regularly stocked item, and I assume the weight would be similar to my example.

I've been using the long discontinued H-108 powder to drive them, so I won't bother giving my charges here, but AA #9 starting loads for the 115 gr bullet are a pretty good place to start. I have not attempted to GC any loads for the 327 yet, the extra effort and expense don't seem necessary.

Froggie

megasupermagnum

01-24-2018, 07:56 PM

I've gotten some minor leading with absolute max loads with those 120 grain bullets, and I would assume no longer accurate from a rifle. I'm looking to push even heavier bullets at maximum pressures, hopefully coming up on 1800 fps. I've heard AA #9 recommended a number of times, but I'm just not that into it. I have nothing else that I would want to use it in. I'm sure H110 will be a top performer, although I don't like using it. I've never tried IMR 4227, and I do have a number of guns I want to try it in.

megasupermagnum

01-24-2018, 09:00 PM

A group buy on a 135-140 grain Sledgehammer mould from Mihec just closed on Single Actions, but there's another open for 130 grain solid and 123 to 126 grain hp's. I'm in on the 2nd one.

http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/21230/32-sixgun-sledgehammer-closed

http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/21680/molds-327-single-mjolnir-group

The sledgehammer is the one that got me thinking about all this, but I wanted a smaller meplat and IIRC the sledgehammer was a PB. The first link bullet would work, but I'd really prefer a double crimp grooves. I know you can seat deeper, but I'd rather not pay that much, when I can get what I want for the same price. The second bullet would work as well, but is slightly lighter than I wanted.

Outpost75

01-24-2018, 09:11 PM

Thanks a lot for that info. If 32 S&W long can get over 1200 fps with a very similar bullet I want to, the 327 federal should really get them moving. Are these loads you worked up yourself? I've got plenty of manuals with all the older 32's, and none seem to go over 115 grain. I found a thread of a person who got a 150 gain cast bullet to 1125 fps with 2400 in a handgun with good accuracy.

Yes, these are loads I've worked up in my own rifle and revolvers. I've shot the Accurate 31-155D in the .32 S&W Long with #2400 powder and gotten velocities approximating that bullet weight fired from a .38 Special +P of the same barrel length, but haven't published the load, because it would be a bit warm for anything other than Rugers.

megasupermagnum

01-27-2018, 01:18 AM

I had the bullet all drawn up on the Mountain mold website. It was perfect, except one small detail. I could not figure out how to add a second crimp groove. Has anyone ordered a double crimp groove mold from Mountain before?

trapper9260

01-27-2018, 08:27 AM

Thanks Outpost I was wonder about data to work with for heavy cast of 327.

megasupermagnum

01-30-2018, 03:09 PM

I just sent an email to Tom at Accurate Molds, and hopefully he can create it. I tried mountain molds, but he can't make a double crimp groove. Here's the bulk of it, but it will have a second crimp groove at .475".

213060

wildcatter

02-17-2018, 01:37 PM

I been looking at this caliber for the past couple years, but with the Blackhawk not comming to a second run I just waited, and ponderred. Well when the GP100 5.5 was reintroduced I hesitated just long enough to see the Stainless 6" Full get introduced,,, I no longer hesitated! I wanted the longer cylinder first off, then I wanted the heavier framed gun for a solid hunting platform. I also wanted more than 5" barrel to squeeze a little more outa the slower powders with some serious large varmint choices.

This was my initial outings, a .312" cast 120 grn bullet from Matts, as I also am waiting on invoices from Mihec for the 100 gr, (small game hunting bullet) and the 140 grn. sledge hammer, I also am on the 127 Sovjern bullet list, all GB's at SA forums. Yhis Matt's bullet is a little undersize for the .3128" throats in the 6" GP, but to get some feel for the gun they are not all that bad.
231505

The data I've seen say's AA#9 has done better for velocity in the weapons folks are reporting on, most are under 4" in barrel length. This is not ideal for H110/296 performance, it is a slower powder that I believe will be better for velocity and accuracy in the longer carbines. I am going to find out in the 6" GP100 as H-110 will be my starting point with 120 grain and over slugs. Grouse Rabbit, squirrel, and the such in edible game will be saved for 1000-1100 fps 100 grn solids.

I think from others I have talked to that 120's and up, H110, AA#9, Longshot, and 2400 are what I would start with in a 16 to 20 inch carbine. Oh ya, I like the 205M Federal primer for any carbine loads, and will be working in the GP100 with them along with a new 115-315 FN mold from NOE that just arrived yesterday. If you can run 1.5" col this bullet will work and with a copper GC I'm casting 126 grn. It is an excellent bullet design, cast very good from my 10# COWW with 5# pure lead and 5# straight Lyno mix with 6 oz of 99% tin bullion added. O'm working these new bullets up using the top grease groove for a crimp ring and expecting to be able to really push them,, well see, but I won't catch that carbine for sure, and I think you'll find H110 will put a smile on your face in that new Henry!

megasupermagnum

02-19-2018, 09:01 PM

Accurate molds has since added that mold I drew, and I have bought it. I'm still waiting, and expect it in the next couple of weeks. Since then, I've actually found some things that makes me wish I had slowed down. The main thing being, I see no reason at all that the Henry can't be modified for a longer cartridge. there is at least a 1/2" of room extra for the bolt, and the receiver opening is nearly as generous. All I can figure is that if modified, it won't feed .32 H&R mag very well. That is just fine by me. I plan to call Henry first, but I definitely want to be able to feel cartridges that can do the 327 federal some justice. Ideally, I'd open it up .075", giving a very reasonable COAL max of around 1.600".

The bullet I designed has a nose of .325", which should be fine in the Henry as it is now. It is basically a scaled down 44 cal SSK bullet. The thing with mine is that the throat is quite long, and oversize to about .315". I've tried as-cast bullets that are around .315", but they are too big, and loaded rounds don't drop freely in the chamber. I decided on the SSK, as it is essentially a mini bore riding bullet, thinking it might self-align better. The more I look into it, I think a bullet with a long nose, and a tangent ogive that closely matches the leade angle is the best way to go, along with a moderate alloy, so that it obturates to fill the throat. I've been shooting a SWC bullet, and while they are awesome in my handgun, they don't fit my rifle. The last batch I ran are a whopping 26 BHN (not entirely on purpose), and being undersized, don't fit the throat. The SWC was never known to be a good bore aligning bullet either, its more of a throat aligner. I've still managed decent accuracy, but I'm hoping for at least 3 MOA, just because.

As for powder choices, I'm feeling like H110 will be the best for the SSK-style bullet. Being 140 grains with a .325" nose, it will use up quite a bit of powder space. H110 is quite dense, and should provide decent speed. I'm sure I'll be trying my personal favorite of Blue dot as well.

In a way, I was hoping for a 327 blackhawk as well. I have the snub nose, and I have the rifle. A larger handgun would be cool. I looked into the GP100, but that's not what I had in mind. I think a little single action would be the ticket. The single seven is awesome, but that short cylinder is a deal-breaker to me. Freedom Arms has the perfect gun for me in the model 97, but that price tag means I will probably never own one.

megasupermagnum

03-13-2018, 08:01 PM

I got the Accurate mold in the mail, and cast bullets with it that night. Before all that, I've been playing with the Accurate 31-120K some more, I love that bullet. It looks like all the fine folks here were right. I had been trying to get these way too hard. At first I had cast with a mystery alloy, which could have been pure lead for all I know. Water dropped #2 worked. I had ordered some 41 mag bullets from GT bullets cast of 96/2/2, and liked what i saw. After that I cut my #2 in half for an alloy of about 95/2.5/2.5. Sure enough, these are the cleanest shooting bullets I've made to date. After a few hundred rounds I got a little lead in the corners of the rifling, but big deal. They shoot better too.

One thing that I find odd is the chart Lee has in their manual, and sends with their hardness tester. I mean really, you wont get accuracy in a 44 mag with anything less than linotype? I have to call BS, that chart is not worth the paper it's printed on.

I've since modified my Henry to feed the 31-120K (.35" nose length) when crimped in the groove, but accuracy is still topped out at about 1.5" at 50 yards. Maybe that's all I can do with open sights. I've tried with blue dot, AA #7, lil gun, and H110. So far the best has been 6.2 gr of Blue dot. I can go higher in the rifle, but at 6.5 gr, they start to get sticky in the handgun (this is more a problem of the handgun, not necessarily over pressure).

Back to the new "SSK" bullets, I still have more testing to do, but so far has promise. I shot 3 shot groups, and all had 2 touching and 1 farther away. The same day I sized these, I also sized some 190 gr 38 cal SSK bullets, and 44 cal 320 gr SSK bullets, and the strange thing I found with all 3 was that they seemed to size crooked. By that I mean that you can look at the front driving band, and one side is noticeably more crushed than the other (which often isn't even touched). I have been using a flat top punch, which until now, had not noticed a problem. The only other top punch I have was much too small to fit over the nose of even the 32 cal SSK's. I have to wonder if I had sized them perfectly, I wouldn't have all 3 holes touching. As for load data, the problem with this design is that it takes up a bunch of space. Looking back, I should have made it with a .35" nose, and maybe just skipped the gas check. Because of that the only powder that I think will will be appropriate is H110. LIL gun is too bulky, and anything faster will be no benefit. That said, I loaded from 9 grains, up to 11 grains. At 11 grains, the bullets would not seat fully unless the case was exactly 1.2" long. Being as most of mine are a hair shorter, I stopped at 10.5 gr. At 10.5 gr, it was plenty safe, but only provided about 1420 fps from the rifle. I'll load a handful up at 10.5 gr to really check accuracy, anything less had un-burned powder. It's too early to call it, but I am having second thoughts about the design. As it is now, I'm actually thinking about something more similar to the sledgehammer. I am beginning to think gas checks are not worth it for the added expense and effort to put them on for this application. I've got another bullet I drew on mountain molds website. This one a 135 grain RNFP with .35 nose length, and wide driving bands. I feel a lot better about that design, but who knows. Maybe when i get those SSK's to size straight they may shoot amazing.

216363

Hardcast

07-27-2018, 12:27 PM

wildcatter

12-11-2018, 04:06 PM

Outpost75

12-11-2018, 06:55 PM

Thanks a lot for that info. If 32 S&W long can get over 1200 fps with a very similar bullet I want to, the 327 federal should really get them moving. Are these loads you worked up yourself? I've got plenty of manuals with all the older 32's, and none seem to go over 115 grain. I found a thread of a person who got a 150 gain cast bullet to 1125 fps with 2400 in a handgun with good accuracy.

Yes, my bullet designs from Accurate, loads developed in my Colt revolvers and The Infamous Bunny Gun by John Taylor:

231944231945231946

megasupermagnum

12-11-2018, 08:30 PM

I got it and the only issue I have in the GP-100 is very compressed loads of mmp powder to get the results I like cause flattening of the bullet nose when seating. But performance and accuracy make me smile. This gun has one chamber that won't plat with the other 6 as is seen in every group. The powder is some old surplus powder I have that is very close to H-110, and all were loaded with Federal 205M small rifle match primers, sorry for the wrong description on the targets.
231931
231929
231930

Wow, those are cooking. Just this year I ended up buying three more 327 federal handguns, the king being the 5" blued GP100. What a phenomenal gun, and I used it to take a deer on my first handgun only hunt. I kind of sidelined my SSK copy, as it's just not that great. I found a load of 6 grains of Bluedot provides good accuracy, and I think it was running about 1050 fps from the GP100. I tried to get in on the group buy for the new Mjolnir, but that turned into a joke. I eventually designed my own bullet, a 148 grain solid designed to maximize powder space, and spent the summer testing hollow points. The hollow point I settled on made it a 144 grain bullet cast of 20-1 alloy. You can get it going 1300+ with H110, I never found maximum as accuracy falls off with the soft alloy. Again Bluedot turned out to be the winner, with outstanding accuracy at 7.4 grains. That put the bullet out at 1220 fps from the GP100.

I had a short go with Accurate #9, but it is just not as good as H110. Accurate #7 did not work well at all for me. IMR 4227 seems like a decent powder, accuracy on par with H110, but speed about what I get with Bluedot. I'm still playing with the Accurate 31-120K, it shoots good with most loads, but have not found one I really want to set me teeth into. It seems to shoot best cast of a moderately hard alloy like wheel weights, 20-1 and HTWW were just ok. Being a plain base, it also seems like velocity falls off after a certain point. You can shoot them over 1500 fps easy with most slow powders, but accuracy seems to be best below that.

blue32

12-11-2018, 09:11 PM

If you have access to range scrap you may want to try 1:3 Lino to range scrap. Although not a 327 owner, I've used it in warm 32-20 loads with great results. Using the alloy calculator it falls right at 12.4 bhn.

megasupermagnum

12-11-2018, 09:26 PM

I don't currently have range scrap, but have been asking around at my club. It sounds like it may happen, and will be discussed in the meetings soon. You can bet I'll be a berm miner for all I'm worth, there is as much lead as dirt in them! I've been using a copy of wheel weight, made up of a combo of SOWW and Linotype. I did manage to get two full to the top buckets of COWW this year, which I'm really hoping provides close to 200 pounds of alloy for me. I've kind of settled in to two alloys, COWW+tin (or similar copy), and 20:1. I also use straight SOWW for the muzzleloader and barrel slugs. With wheel weight I've managed to get it as hard as 30 BHN in the oven! Or I can water drop it for low to mid 20's, or easily add Lino to make Lyman #2, and it shoots fine in most things just air cooled. I do like adding tin. Tin just makes everything easier.

cwlongshot

01-07-2020, 10:11 PM

Bring back a old thread, as I am also looking for heavy for caliber 32 for my Single seven. How did things go with the 140’s? I have two 140 hps and both have too
Long of a nose to work with the case as is. I might trim the case back to allow a moderate crimp and OAL to fit my cylinder.

But I have found that the beloved Lyman 440 bullet works perfecy as is even allowing crimp to the crimp groove and fits the cyl length!!

254436254437

I have sized these to .314 and my cyl seems to Like them!

As mentioned at the beginning most all data stops at 115/120g. I like heavy for caliber and talk about a pile driver!! This bullet has always impressed.

Any one else noticed this bullets potential?

CW

megasupermagnum

01-07-2020, 11:28 PM

I've tried 4 or 5 bullets around 140 grains now, although most were seated long. With deep seating to 1.490", I found you reduced the case capacity so much that H110 no longer offers much of a benefit. I found Bluedot to be the cats meow for this purpose. You can go lower if you want, but 5.8 grains Bluedot should be a good starting point. I found around 6.5 grains to be the best. Around 6.8 grains I consider max. 6.5 grains was around 1050 fps if I remember right.

As for the Accurate 31-140C "SSK", I never got it to shoot great in anything. It's not bad, but it's not good. The Accurate 31-148GC is my huckleberry for full power. The 31-137K has done well for me too, I just haven't run the entire gauntlet of load workups for it yet.

One indispensable tool I made was a Lee collet crimp die. All I had to do was take a 32-30 collet crimp die, and shorten the collet the requisite amount. With this tool, you can make a crimp groove wherever you want.

cwlongshot

01-08-2020, 06:46 AM

254454

I like blue dot allot too. Under rated pistol Powder!

CW

Green Frog

01-08-2020, 08:51 AM

These heavy bullets are attractive on paper... but as some of you are finding out, heavier equals longer. For my custom K-frame 327, the NOE interpretation of the classic Ideal 3118 comes to within less than.01” of the front face of the cylinder. At 125 gr that’s getting to the upper limit of what I can use. The late, lamented Ruger Blackhawk 8-shooter in 327 gives a little more cylinder length thus more potential bullet weight capacity, but if you don’t already have one of those Rugers, good luck finding one. Mine is definitely not for sale!!

Froggie

HP-Sauce

01-08-2020, 11:52 AM

Wheelguns 1961

01-08-2020, 12:15 PM

I have been destroying my brass with the .327 Federal, I have tried 115gr RNFP with 6.0gr of HP-38 or 11.7gr of H-110. Both these loads were destroying my brass out of a 4.2" SP101.

I have settled on 4.6g Unique for the 115 RNFP.

I'm tending towards lighter plain base boolits around 90gr for the sake of brass life, 327 brass ain't cheap.

Are your chambers oversized? I shoot the mp “mjolnir” out of my 327’s. It weighs 128gns with my alloy. I either use 12.0 of h110, or 10.0 of 2400. I was splitting brass with heavier loads, but haven’t split any since I came down to this level. Maybe your bullets are bigger than your throats. I am using starline brass.

HP-Sauce

01-08-2020, 01:21 PM

Are your chambers oversized? I shoot the mp “mjolnir” out of my 327’s. It weighs 128gns with my alloy. I either use 12.0 of h110, or 10.0 of 2400. I was splitting brass with heavier loads, but haven’t split any since I came down to this level. Maybe your bullets are bigger than your throats. I am using starline brass.

I’m using stat line brass too. 7 out of 100 split after the second fire. The boolits were .314, you do have a point, that could be the reason.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

megasupermagnum

01-08-2020, 01:31 PM

I too had this problem when I first started, but the problem is not pressure. I believe the problem is a combination of poor quality Starline brass, and an undersized sizing die. Federal brass does it too, but at a much lower rate.

Anyway the solution for me was simple. I size the body with a Lee carbide crimp die with crimper removed. I then size just the neck section with the standard sizing die. Before I was loosing around 5%-10% of all brass. Since then, which was 2 or 3 years ago, I've not lost a SINGLE piece of brass to splitting. I've shot some real barn burners in that time. It is a 100% effective solution. If you only own a single 327 federal, you can even get away without body sizing. It's unfortunate that all sizing dies out there are designed to size .008" smaller than needed, even for .312" bullets. I wish I had a better solution for those using a progressive, but I just run my brass through, clean, and then load as normal.

dverna

01-08-2020, 11:28 PM

Are you gentlemen trying to turn the .327 into a mild .357?

Trying to make the .327 into an effective deer round?

megasupermagnum

01-09-2020, 12:03 AM

Are you gentlemen trying to turn the .327 into a mild .357?

Trying to make the .327 into an effective deer round?

That's what a 327 federal is, isn't it?

The heavier bullets all around work better. More consistent velocities, better accuracy, more power. You can deer hunt with the heavy bullets, but they work well on smaller game too. There isn't a huge difference, but the heavier bullets do go through a lot more water for shooting carp in a creek. Last spring the water was so deep, nothing short of full power 310 grain 44 magnums would get to them though.

There's no flies on the 100 grain XTP, but I've never found any impressive accuracy with cast bullets less than 115 grains, at maximum velocities. Target loads are another matter. Of everything I've tried, my most accurate bullet is my 144 grain hollow point.

cwlongshot

01-12-2020, 07:05 PM

254730

Today, I shot 175shells tru my Single seven. Five with the Lyman 311440 sized to .314 and seated to cyl length. Using 5.5g Blue Dot. They shot very well, cases fell out of the cyl. But like all my loads the CCI 550’s where flattened.
Second load was with a 135g Cast SWC. This one got 6.0g Blue Dot seated to the top of the driving band as it has a long nose and not real friendly to the short Ruger cylinder. (Pic at the top.)

Any one recognize this bullet?

This one shot really well @ 1150 fps. I loaded enough of these to shoot them for accuracy out to 50 yards. Im pretty happy with this gun so far!

254731

I do not have very many of these 135’s and the mold for the 311440. Im gonna work more with the 440’s.

CW

megasupermagnum

01-12-2020, 08:05 PM

Did I send you those bullets? That SWC sure looks and awful lot like my Accurate 31-137K. As for primer flattening, it seems to depend slightly on the gun. My GP101 doesn't seem to flatten primers even with loads I consider too far. I have one SP101 that does with very hot ammo, and another that is nearly always flattened. It's best to compare to factory ammo.

Green Frog

01-12-2020, 09:36 PM

OK I admit it, there is no perfect round or caliber to do all things for all people. OTOH, the 327 Fed Mag makes a good stab at doing a whole lot of things for a whole lot of people. By the time you get up to hot loads with the heavier bullets, you have equalled the paper ballistics of at least the 38 +P if not run of the mill factory 357 Mag. You need a mid-size Ruger or S&W to really take advantage of the round's potential. If this round had been introduced at the time the 32 H&R Mag-wannabe was put on the market, in revolvers of sufficient strength, it would have been a world beater. Just because the history of 32s has been one of small, fairly weak revolvers with rather puny loads, there is no reason they caliber can't grow up to be something bigger and better.

Froggie

cwlongshot

01-13-2020, 06:31 AM

Did I send you those bullets? That SWC sure looks and awful lot like my Accurate 31-137K.

Not sure. I believe I swapped some 457191 for them. But if on this board or another I have not yet chexked.

I have looked at the accurate chart and like that 31-135. Its got a wider meplat and is made as large as possible for the Ruger. Might have to place an order. :bigsmyl2:

CW

Mark McWillis

01-13-2020, 02:21 PM

Not sure. I believe I swapped some 457191 for them. But if on this board or another I have not yet chexked.

I have looked at the accurate chart and like that 31-135. Its got a wider meplat and is made as large as possible for the Ruger. Might have to place an order. :bigsmyl2:

CW

I agree...the 31-135s is a really good looking bullet. I ordered the mold yesterday.

megasupermagnum

01-13-2020, 03:20 PM

That 31-135S looks like about as good as you can get for a single seven. Although that deep seated 31-137K sure looks fantastic. Nothing wrong with a sub 3" 50 yard group! Heck, that might be 2". It shoots good in mine too. I'm betting I sent those to you. You also have those 31-148GC that are 144 grain hollow points cast of 20:1. They might be even more accurate.

cwlongshot

01-13-2020, 06:21 PM

megasupermagnum

01-13-2020, 07:47 PM

OK. YES! I have some HPs but would need to trim cases to use them at crimp. THANK YOU!!

I thought we traded a 45 bullet. Did we?

I am still contemplating the mold. But its a good bet Ill be adding it to the “collection” ;)

CW

Yes, you sent me the 215 grain 38 caliber SWC, along with a few other samples. They worked great in the 357 maximum.

Those hollow points should work well deep seated. Even If you don't have a crimp groove, that's a lot of bearing surface inside the case to hold on.

DHDeal

01-13-2020, 08:08 PM

megasupermagnum

01-13-2020, 08:24 PM

I'm just about ready to play with this cartridge. On order is a Freedom Arms 97 in 327, MP Sledgehammer GC mold, big Midway order, and a Trijicon SRO 1 MOA dot in a Freedom Arms mount.

I figured I'd start with the heavy hollowpoint as I'm told that the FA cylinder will accept it with some room to spare, and I've always had good luck with heavy for caliber bullets. The Sledgehammer will be PC only (it's what I do) and I hope the Sage's GC aren't too much of a PITA to install. No Bluedot around here, but I have many pounds of H110, HS6, 4227, Universal, and a few other pistol powders.

Looking forward to a new adventure with a loud little high maintenance toy. What the heck, I am married to a good looking redhead anyway so I ain't scared....

It's really not that loud, especially with these heavy bullets. I don't think I've seen a Freedom Arms on this website yet, but they have been offered in 327 for a while. It should be a fantastic shooter. You would hope so for what they cost. Sage's gas checks work great, they are all I use anymore. The shank on these is the same size as any other 30 caliber bullet, they go on just as easy. Lots of guys like the MP sledgehammer. I've never tried it, as I have too many bullets that weight already. I never liked 4227 that much, but don't let that stop you. H110 is every bit as good here as any other magnum handgun.

DHDeal

01-13-2020, 10:39 PM

It wasn't cheap, but I have 3 other FA's so I knew going in. If I had picked up a Single Seven, I'd have probably spent some more $$ on it before I was happy. Every RBH here has been customized to some degree or another and finding one of the good Smith's with an open slot isn't quick or cheap. I've never been unhappy with a FA yet and don't think I'll be with the 97. What added quite a bit of $$ was that I do not have any 32 cal stuff at all. That's not the case anymore.

I highly doubt I'll use 4227 here as it is so bulky. H110 is my favorite revolver powder period with HS6 next in line. I don't doubt they'll both shine in the 327 with that long heavy bullet.

The only GC's I've ordered have come from Sage's. Probably bought more than 15K of them over the last 5 years. I mostly have used Gators, but have some aluminum too. I ordered a few thousand of Sage's and Gators in .015" and .017" to see what works best. Thanks for the information that they'll be fine in the 327. I knew the 30 caliber was the correct size, but have read they can be tight. Better tight than loose, but not "get the hammer" tight...

megasupermagnum

01-13-2020, 10:51 PM

I didn't even realize they made different thickness. I tossed the bag they came in, and don't know how thick they are. I'll try measuring. I also have their "303" tall checks that work very well, and they are .017". I would start with the .017" thick, as their .015" is advertised for a max bullet size of .312".

DHDeal

01-13-2020, 10:59 PM

I didn't know about the thickness either until I started getting ready to leap into the 327. All of my other GC's are what they are (357, 44, 45) with no thickness choices that I'm aware of.

I got some of each thickness and thought about the 303's, but didn't get any of them. I also didn't get any of the aluminum (I prefer the copper anyway).

megasupermagnum

01-13-2020, 11:07 PM

Yeah, aluminum gas checks seem like a false economy to me. You save about half a cent per bullet. Gas checks cost money, but the big cost to me is the time it takes to put them on. If I'm spending that time, I want the best.

cwlongshot

01-14-2020, 06:22 AM

I REALLY LIKE those 303 tall checks!!! But by and large Gators are what I order too.

I have started checking my bullets (that take a check) BEFORE PC. Wanna do more extensive testing but they are easier to install and overall are a better instal so should be more consistently accurate.

cwlongshot

01-15-2020, 09:44 PM

I got the Redding taper crimp die today. WOW NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE!!

Im not a huge fam of Hornady dies and really dislike how they cut the stem for crimping. This fixed that issue 100%!

Loaded up thirty 150g loads fifteen 135g loads and five 140HP loads.

CW

DHDeal

01-16-2020, 10:48 PM

Well I cast with the Sledgehammer today. Cast about 130 or so. I used a few culls to measure with as I was opening up the Lee .311" bullet sizing die and the other 125 I PC'd. Fought the Sage and Gator GC's. My shank ended up @ .292" with the PC. I have PC'd after installing GC's before but don't really like to (I will if I have to though).

I used a worn out 5/16" bit that was beveled on the back to open the checks up. This created a concave in the checks. Not ideal, but the concave was removed by sizing, more or less. I have access to a machinist friend that can make me a version of the NOE gas check expander as NOE is out of stock for the die.

Annealing the checks is next as it won't hurt. Ain't this fun...

On another note, has anyone used HS6 in the 327? Just curious as I have much luck with all of my other revolver calibers.

megasupermagnum

01-17-2020, 12:04 AM

That's unfortunate. I've got a couple molds that cast the shank a bit too large, but all my high end Accurate, NOE, and Arsenal molds cast spot on. I do not yet own an MP mold. Make sure it's not out of round, indicating the mold wasn't closed properly.

I have used HS-6 in 327, although never with a heavy bullet. I don't see why it wouldn't work. I was never all that impressed with it with light bullets or in any other caliber. I'm going to assume you can crimp in the crimp groove with your model 97. I wouldn't discount 4227. You can't get enough in to be dangerous, which some consider a plus. Based on similar bullets, you would be looking at about 12 grains, maybe 12.5 grains max that would fit. It's nowhere near H110, but that should provide respectable performance. Some people have found fantastic accuracy with 4227 in handguns. I have not, but that does not mean anything.

cwlongshot

01-17-2020, 09:18 AM

Yes, you sent me the 215 grain 38 caliber SWC, along with a few other samples. They worked great in the 357 maximum.

Those hollow points should work well deep seated. Even If you don't have a crimp groove, that's a lot of bearing surface inside the case to hold on.
Loaded up five last night. Nope no good nose diameter too great at cyl throats. I can push in but takes a bit more and is even force so I know it’s pal dis issue not a “lump” or something.

Not big deal, I also made a dummy in a 32/20 and it’s just fine loaded to the crimp
Groove. :)

CW

Green Frog

01-17-2020, 09:38 AM

DHDeal

01-17-2020, 09:47 AM

I appreciate the information.

No, the bullets aren't out of round and the mold closes as it should. The gas check shank is just a little fat and all the 30 cal checks I have run a little skinny. As I'm likey to do, after I cast those few I got busy PCing. I'll have to cast some more so I can measure before I PC. Patience is a virtue or something like that.

I've read on another forum where a couple guys that have the mold stated where the copper GC's are a tight fit. It seems it was across the board with a copper check. Sage's even put in 50 aluminum checks as they probably guessed from my order I was "looking" for something.

I'll get this figured out even if I have to use the NOE expander. I will anneal 500 or so of the Sage's. 015" checks. It's not really unfortunate as little hiccups tend to bring out creativity in an otherwise easy task. My shooting partner is close to a genius and while he won't admit it, likes these issues (that and his son runs CNC lathes, mills, water jets, laser engravers, etc.). As long as I keep him supplied with MP Molds hollowpoints he's good...

I'll do a work up with at least HS6 and H110. Just looking for starting points.

trapper9260

01-17-2020, 09:55 AM

For the heavy boolit for the 327 , for the ones that needs GC would you use the GC of a 30 cal for it or not.

Wheelguns 1961

01-17-2020, 12:13 PM

To get back to the original purpose of this thread, I need to ask what constitutes a “heavy bullet?” Some folks seem to think of anything over 115 grains in any of the 32/327s as being heavy, while others seem to be reaching into the 130 grain + range. I have not been able to find any published data (from manufacturers) for bullets over about 118 grains, and even using my NOE bullets at 125 grains involves extrapolation and estimation. :cbpour:

Sooooo... to the OP, what range would you quantify as “heavy weight” for the 327 FM? Second, does anybody have any pressure tested loads for bullets running 125, 130, or 135 grain (or heavier) that fit available chamber lengths of the 327s out there? Third, what bullet moulds are some of you using to get those heavy bullets? I’ve personally set the 125 grain bullets out of my NOE 314008 PB as the upper limit available to me as it just about fills up my custom stainless K-frame chambers to their upper limit. :cool:

This has been a very informative and worthwhile thread. Let’s keep it going with specific on-topic information about heavy bullets for the 327 and the powder charges to drive them. :Fire:

Regards,
Froggie
While I don’t have any pressure tested loads, when I was working up my heavy bullet loads, I kept an eye on pressure signs very closely. As you say, it was sort of uncharted territory. I went high enough to split cases and flatten primers, not just flat in the middle, but flat all the way across. I learned alot and settled on a few loads. Here is what I came up with. YMMV.

First, the disclaimer. I do not claim these loads safe in all guns, or any guns for that matter. This is just my experience. Always start low and work up in your guns, and follow good reloading practices, and always look for signs of pressure.

The two heavy molds that I used were the mp “mjolnir” and the sledgehammer. The mjolnir flat point weighed 127gns cast of 100% accoww. The sledgehammer weighed 140gns cast of the same. The sledgehammer was a no lube groove mold, and this changed things. I attribute my poor results with this mold to the fact that it was a nlg mold, and raised the pressure considerably. I have since given up on this mold.

I had good end results with the mjolnir. This takes up all available space in a single seven cylinder. I worked up loads with h110 and 2400. I took both powders high enough to start problems with case life. I settled on 10gns of 2400 and 12.0gns of h110. These loads shoot good in my S7’s, and show a little primer flattening in the center, but the edges are still rounded. I am comfortable that these loads won’t significantly shorten my revolver’s life.

The sledgehammer mold was purchased to use in my gp100. I got the nlg mold because I wanted the heavier bullet. This bullet showed overpressure signs from the start. I couldn’t get any where near the performance level with this bullet compared to the mjonir. The above loads mentioned were tried with this bullet. Pressure signs showed immediately. I settled on 9.5gns of 2400, and 11.5gns of h110 as the highest I was willing to go with this bullet. I have since stopped using this bullet, and now use the mjolnir in all my 327’s.

Like I said, these are just my results, and I am sure that the nlg mold had alot to do with my results. I also think that you loose some of the benefits of the 327 cartridge with too heavy of a bullet. Also some people are more “adventurous” when it comes to experimentation than others. All in all, I am happy with my end results. Again, YMMV.

Edited to add; all bullets were plain base and powder coated. The bullets were sized to .314” which are the throat sizes of both guns. I never experienced any leading of any kind.

Green Frog

01-17-2020, 02:04 PM

Sounds like Thor’s Hammer is a pretty close match for my NOE 314008 that drops at a very consistent 125 grains using COWW with just a % or two of tin. I’ve been working with Accurate #7 and a non-canister surplus powder that mimics Accurate #9. I’ve been hesitant to go too hot for rounds to go through my K-frame, but I can always try them out in the “stud hoss,” my Ruger Blackhawk. If they don’t show too much pressure there I feel a little better about putting them in the smaller Smith. :2gunsfiring_v1:

Froggie

megasupermagnum

01-17-2020, 02:19 PM

Wheelguns 1961

01-17-2020, 02:33 PM

This caliber is perfect for experimentation. It is nice to hear the experiences of like minded people.

cwlongshot

01-17-2020, 03:51 PM

I don't know where to draw the line on "heavy" or "light", they are just words. I look at it as more of a velocity thing. If all you could get was 900 fps from a 115 grain bullet, that would be called "heavy".

As it is, I consider under 115 grain light. 115-135 grain standard, and 135+ grain heavy. I have not pressure tested any loads. I do have a Pressure Trace II system, I could pressure test loads. I don't know if it would be a good idea to share the data online, but it might be cool to know.

Being as I have gotten 1300+ FPS with a 148 grain bullet, I want to find just what the limit is. I don't mean that in any dangerous way, I simply want to know how heavy you can go, and have the 1:16" twist handgun stabilize them. As a result, I decided to go ahead with a design I had in my mind for a heavy, WFN bullet. The mold should be on the way from Accurate molds now. It is the 31-167C. It should weigh 165-167 grains. Is it past the practical performance gain? Probably. But I want to know for sure.
I agree.

Heavy for caliber is just what it says it is. Anyone with difficulties understanding this has no business experimenting in “no mans land or Uncharted territories”

I’ll be ordering a Accurate 135g mold soon. My Lyman 311440 is a darn nice bullet I’m kinda surprised no one else has used it and not written about it. It fits the case very well.

My Velocity is just under 1000fps. Someone with a reloading program can estimate pressures. But it dosent seem unsafe in my Gun. Cases slide out of the cylinder. Recoil is less than factory AM Eagle. I’m happy with a 150g WFP 32 at this velocity. I don’t need to make this something it’s not. I just like heavy bullets.
My only issue is and Ali day it again, all my primers are lil flatter than I like to see.

I loaded up a few 115g with Rem and accidentally SR primers to test. I believe that the cup on SPM and SR are same thickness.

CW

Green Frog

01-17-2020, 07:35 PM

megasupermagnum

01-17-2020, 07:43 PM

OK, this is so far out of my wheelhouse I’m going to just sit on the sidelines and observe. I’d always thought my 125 grain rounds were heavy for caliber, but you guys have left me in the dust!

Please be sure to include OAL with your specs as this will be a factor for many of us. I’ve been preaching that this caliber has a huge potential, but now I’m in awe. Keep posting, please! :coffeecom

Froggie

That's a good point. I do not own a single seven. The great majority of my testing is with an OAL of 1.600"-1.625". Every 327 federal out there, with the sole exception of the single seven will fit these. The Ruger LCR I consider 1.610" the max. The Henry big boy will only cycle a 1.530" stock, but will chamber even my fat nosed hollow point at 1.600". I would think the FA 97 would be similar to the Ruger GP100, which will fit up to about 1.650"

DHDeal

01-17-2020, 08:07 PM

megasupermagnum

01-17-2020, 08:11 PM

As I haven't even seen my 327 Federal in the flesh, and I'm just getting started casting, I thought the MP Sledgehammer was heavy. I see I'm mistaken!

As far as the FA97 is concerned, I'll post COAL when I get it. I was told by an individual who has one that it is 1.625". Case heads are recessed in a FA.

140 grains is plenty heavy, don't worry about that. I don't know how many people hunt with these. I've shot a whitetail with my 144 grain hollow point. I know a member, I believe Sixgun, shot a pronghorn with the Sledgehammer hollow point. As a solid, they are not too bad for small game either.

DHDeal

01-17-2020, 08:27 PM

140 grains is plenty heavy, don't worry about that. I don't know how many people hunt with these. I've shot a whitetail with my 144 grain hollow point. I know a member, I believe Sixgun, shot a pronghorn with the Sledgehammer hollow point. As a solid, they are not too bad for small game either.

That monster you have on order from Tom must either be a wadcutter or about and inch long! I saw where you described it as a WFN style. What's the meplat, .312"?

megasupermagnum

01-17-2020, 08:44 PM

That monster you have on order from Tom must either be a wadcutter or about and inch long! I saw where you described it as a WFN style. What's the meplat, .312"?

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-167C-D.png

.83" long. It's nice and compact. 88% or .275" meplat, same as the original 44 caliber Keith. I figure 1000-1150 should be a reasonable expectation for this. Will it stabilize at that speed from a 1:16" twist? I give it about a 50-50 chance.

cwlongshot

01-18-2020, 08:43 AM

254998
254999
255000

Here is a pic of couple of my bullets next to a factory Speer 115g Gold Dot in the nickel case.

On the tape measure is my 311440 & a 115g Gold Dot.

CW

Mark McWillis

01-18-2020, 06:26 PM

I ordered an Accurate 31-135s on 01-11-20. It was delivered today. I'm impressed. Guess what I'll be doing tomorrow!

megasupermagnum

01-18-2020, 07:13 PM

I ordered an Accurate 31-135s on 01-11-20. It was delivered today. I'm impressed. Guess what I'll be doing tomorrow!

My mold showed up today too, and I ordered it on the 12th! You can't beat Accurate molds.

cwlongshot

01-18-2020, 09:25 PM

Ooh man. I wanna order mine too!!

CW

Green Frog

01-18-2020, 09:27 PM

Those bullets have a lot of lead inside of the case. Pressures increase due to smaller air volume too, not just more powder. I'm very interested in how all of this works out, especially for my Blackhawk. I'm not sure how bold I'll be with my "616"... it doesn't have quite the beef as the Ruger. I will definitely learn from you as you work with these Lead Zeppelins.

Froggie

megasupermagnum

01-18-2020, 10:35 PM

After looking at the new bullets, i have a good feeling that they will work. I'll hold further judgment until I actually pull the trigger.

The new bullets weigh 165 grains as cast right on the nose. I loaded a couple dummys. 1.650" fits fine in the GP100, but not the SP101. The shorter one is 1.605", and fits anything except the single seven. I'll likely load to the shorter length for simplicity. The dings in the nose are because it turns out they don't cycle well in the Henry rifle. Both do chamber in the Henry though. The chamber in that thing must be super long.

255033

The meplat is the exact same size as the iconic 44 caliber bullet. It's kind of a cross between this https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/358/sc360-232-rf-u5/360-230-rf-2-cavity-1gc-1pb-rd

and this https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/308-311/tl311-166-rf-ai4/tl311-166-rf-ai4-2-cavity-1gc-1pb-rd

255034

Mark McWillis

01-19-2020, 08:52 PM

I agree...the 31-135s is a really good looking bullet. I ordered the mold yesterday.

I cast a much of these today. WW+2% drop at 131 grains and they run .3149 to .3154 in roundness. Good looking boolit. Can't wait to shoot 'em.

cwlongshot

01-20-2020, 10:25 AM

I just ordered my own Accurate 31-135S.

You guys are a bunch of enablers. :bigsmyl2:

CW

Mark McWillis

01-20-2020, 01:39 PM

I just ordered my own Accurate 31-135S.

You guys are a bunch of enablers. :bigsmyl2:

CW

You're quite welcome! :drinks:

megasupermagnum

01-21-2020, 03:31 PM

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IS NOT TO BE CONSIDERED LOAD DATA. IT IS FOR INFORMATIVE PURPOSES ONLY

Wow, I got everything I wanted in this test. I found a good bullet, and I found the limit of the 327 federal handguns. I loaded from 9.5 to 11.5 grains H110, and seated to 1.605" OAL. At 11.5 grains, the powder was compressed such that the loaded rounds turned out closer to 1.608" OAL. You can't fit more than that. I used the CCI 550 small pistol magnum primer. All shots were fired from my 5" GP100, about 8 feet from the muzzle

9.5 gr
AV: 1018 fps
ES: 28 fps

10 gr
AV: 1063 fps
ES: 39 fps

10.5 gr
AV: 1114 fps
ES: 53 fps

11 gr
AV: 1157 fps
ES: 86 fps

11.5 gr
AV: 1215 fps
ES: 35 fps

For comparative purposes, I ran some of the Federal American Eagle 100 grain SP factory loads too. They had been sitting in my truck all night at 10 degrees. The 165 grain loads went straight from the loading bench to the range, never getting below room temperature. Normally the Federal load runs closer to 1650 fps in the summer.

Federal 100gr SP factory load

AV:1509 fps
ES: 54 fps

So what did I learn? The first load at 9.5 grains H110 showed marginal stability. Holes were ever so slightly oval. From 10 to 11.5 grains showed perfect stability. I was not shooting groups, but I did have an aiming point at 25 yards. The 10.5 and 11 grain loads shot about as good as the Federal factory load without even trying. I then fired the 11.5 grain load at a point at 50 yards, and they shot about 6". Not great, but fit my purpose. I consider 11 grains max. Primers looked identical to the Federal factory load. I fired the 11.5 grains anyway with no worse pressure signs. No cases ever got sticky, and no hint of lead in the barrel. Bullets were lubed with deluxe Xlox and gas checked, sized to .314". This was the first time I ever fired a 327 federal and actually realized the recoil. It's still soft, but it is squarely in 357 magnum territory. This load actually surpasses 357 magnum factory ammo (which is admittedly quite watered down). :shock:

Now the question is how does this compare to the 148 grain bullet. Does the added mass help overcome the reduced velocity? I was able to get around 1325 fps with the 148 grain, compared to 1157 fps for the 165 grain. We will see. It's safe to say 165-170 grains is the absolute maximum bullet that will stabilize in a 1:16" twist handgun.

Maybe one day the Factories will realize the potential of this cartridge. If it is to be marketed as a self defense cartridge, it should be marketed as the 9mm alternative, not a 357 magnum wannabe. Standard bullets should be 125 grains, with 100, 115, and 147 grains optional. The 327 federal in a revolver gives up a round or two to 9mm in a small semi-auto, but it also outperforms 9mm. 327 federal is somewhere in the 38 super or 357 sig area.

Wheelguns 1961

01-21-2020, 03:50 PM

Interesting data. Great research and writeup!

cwlongshot

01-21-2020, 08:42 PM

Interesting data. Great research and writeup!

Agreed. Thank you!

I’m happy at 1000 with my 150’s. It will do everything I need out of a heavy in 327. I’ll push the 135 a lil more once I get it and start building loads. But as always accuracy rules.

CW

CW

cwlongshot

01-22-2020, 07:35 PM

2tenths of a grain more got me to a 1040avg with my 150g Lyman 311440 bullet.

This was a offhand 25 yard group.

255203

I didn’t wade thru the snow for 50 yard targets. But on the 75 yard berm I was shooting soft ball sized groups in the snow.

CW

DHDeal

01-22-2020, 11:12 PM

One question, and one statement CW: what's snow, and I really like that little Bisley!

OK, I looked it up and snow is frozen precipitation, and I still really like that little Bisley.

megasupermagnum

01-22-2020, 11:27 PM

One question, and one statement CW: what's snow, and I really like that little Bisley!

OK, I looked it up and snow is frozen precipitation, and I still really like that little Bisley.

Snow is the stuff that eats brass. If you want semi auto brass around here, show up around April 10th, and there will be hundreds, if not thousands of cases on the 25 yard line freshly cleaned.

DHDeal

01-22-2020, 11:45 PM

I really have seen some before, and I don't know what all the fuss is about as it only gets about 1" deep 😉😉😉😉😉.

This heavy bullet 327 thing promises to be some serious fun, and I already know it's expensive. I still haven't shot my new FA97 in 327 yet. I do know the throats aren't going to accept anything over 312". All of my 83's are similar in that the throats are tight and you have to be particular in sizing the bullets.

I ordered an Accurate Molds PB mold a couple days ago. It is a 31-126D. I requested a few changes to another similar slightly lighter mold. I've had very good experience with similar bullets from Tom. I had him make up 36-176D a few years back, and it is a fine very accurate bullet out of every 357 Magnum it has been fired from. I hope and suspect the 31-126D will do the same. Both styles come out to have a 70% meplat.

I love the look of a WFN style bullet, but a LFN style has always shot better out of my revolvers regardless of caliber. YMMV.

megasupermagnum

01-22-2020, 11:58 PM

I really have seen some before, and I don't know what all the fuss is about as it only gets about 1" deep ��.

This heavy bullet 327 thing promises to be some serious fun, and I already know it's expensive. I still haven't shot my new FA97 in 327 yet. I do know the throats aren't going to accept anything over 312". All of my 83's are similar in that the throats are tight and you have to be particular in sizing the bullets.

I ordered an Accurate Molds PB mold a couple days ago. It is a 31-126D. I requested a few changes to another similar slightly lighter mold. I've had very good experience with similar bullets from Tom. I had him make up 36-176D a few years back, and it is a fine very accurate bullet out of every 357 Magnum it has been fired from. I hope and suspect the 31-126D will do the same. Both styles come out to have a 70% meplat.

I love the look of a WFN style bullet, but a LFN style has always shot better out of my revolvers regardless of caliber. YMMV.

The tight throats are not necessarily bad. If you get a .312" or smaller groove barrel, and a .312" or slightly larger throats you might have it made. As I said in some earlier post somewhere, one problem many, if not all of us have had is splitting cases. There is no doubt there is some blame on poor quality Starline cases, but the problem is compounded by both overworking the brass with too small of a sizing die, and generously sized charge holes. If you are able to run .312" sized bullets, and your FA has tight charge holes, you will probably never have this problem. Plus you won't have to worry about special expanding dies, or any other problem, everything is already made for .312" bullets.

And if your throats are smaller than your groove diameter, the best fix is to send the cylinder out to Dougguy and run either .313" or .314" bullets like the rest of us.

cwlongshot

01-23-2020, 08:40 AM

One question, and one statement CW: what's snow, and I really like that little Bisley!

OK, I looked it up and snow is frozen precipitation, and I still really like that little Bisley.

Thank you. Yea the white stuff is cause of much aggravation here.

He is two targets shot with all ammo I brought to range. Five shots each. I saw it was left and adjusted for RH target. Both shot one and two handed off hand at 25 yards.

255214

DHDeal

01-23-2020, 09:25 AM

The tight throats are not necessarily bad. If you get a .312" or smaller groove barrel, and a .312" or slightly larger throats you might have it made. As I said in some earlier post somewhere, one problem many, if not all of us have had is splitting cases. There is no doubt there is some blame on poor quality Starline cases, but the problem is compounded by both overworking the brass with too small of a sizing die, and generously sized charge holes. If you are able to run .312" sized bullets, and your FA has tight charge holes, you will probably never have this problem. Plus you won't have to worry about special expanding dies, or any other problem, everything is already made for .312" bullets.

And if your throats are smaller than your groove diameter, the best fix is to send the cylinder out to Dougguy and run either .313" or .314" bullets like the rest of us.

I have the FA83's and already knew I was not going to be sliding a fat bullet in my cylinder. I just didn't know what "fat" was gonna be without the gun. Being anal and possibly OCD (not always a bad thing), I ordered a Lee .311 sizer planning to open it up. Well the OCD part of me won and I decided to go ahead and open it up to .3125". I ended up opening it to .3126" - .3217" without the cylinder here to measure. I was barely smart enough to order a second .311" sizer just in case. Naturally my "just in case" became necessary as soon as I dropped a .3126" Sledgehammer in the chambers. I hate it when I do this, but I can and do laugh at myself!

I've used DougGuy before and have benefited from his skill, but these Freedom Arms revolvers don't get that treatment. I size bullets to fit them. I may be wrong, but probably won't be, in that the throats will be slightly over .312" and the barrel will be closer to .312" than I can measure. The chambers on every FA here have always been very tight also. I've found that the transition from chamber to throat is abrupt in FA revolvers. When you're driving an expensive car, you can't complain about what it costs to have it serviced I've learned....

This will work out fine, and I'll enjoy the scenery along the journey. I appreciate the pointers here and know I've Hijacked the heck out of this thread, and CW I really like that little revolver!

cwlongshot

01-24-2020, 06:17 PM

Ooh baby!!

255304

Mark McWillis

01-24-2020, 08:07 PM

Ooh baby!!

255304

And the boolits that drop out of that mold are just as pretty as the mold.

trapper9260

01-25-2020, 02:06 PM

On all my 327 I have that is BH ,SP101 and the handi rifle I had made, all take .313 with out any problems. My 32ACP take .312 that is a Keltec P32

cwlongshot

01-25-2020, 05:02 PM

255393255394255395

Beauties!

CW

Mark McWillis

01-26-2020, 03:23 PM

cwlongshot, NICE! What's behind those pretty purple boolits?

cwlongshot

01-26-2020, 07:59 PM

In the basket or in hand?

I shot some of these 135g bullets today loaded on top of 6.5g Blue Dot. Proved a mild loading clocked 1090 avg and fell into a buckle at 20’ and 1” @ 25 yards!!

These two where shot off hand @ 25 yards.

255474255475

Super happy with this gun!!

CW

Mark McWillis

01-27-2020, 01:16 AM

In the basket or in hand?

I was think more along the lines of what powder and how much of it, but you answered that above. Nice shooting.

cwlongshot

01-27-2020, 06:14 AM

I was think more along the lines of what powder and how much of it, but you answered that above. Nice shooting.
If meaning what mold; It’s a Accurate 31-135s Cut specifically for the shorter length of the RUGER S7. Since I PC, I did have to seat to the very top of the CG to get them to freely completely drop in. If I centered the groove, I had to mash them in the last .002.

But they shoot (even tho I rushed them seasoning) into a group I could cover with my thumb @ 20’.

CW

cwlongshot

01-27-2020, 06:17 AM

scotth

01-29-2020, 01:34 PM

here is some factory loaded ammo that is coming soon heavy 327 fed mag 127 grain. https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/hammerdown/11-LG327F1.html

scotth

01-29-2020, 03:46 PM

here is a link to all the new henry,federal lever gun cartridges https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/hammerdown/11-LG327F1.html

megasupermagnum

01-29-2020, 11:44 PM

here is some factory loaded ammo that is coming soon heavy 327 fed mag 127 grain. https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/hammerdown/11-LG327F1.html

And there it is folks! The 327 federal will never be as popular as 44 magnum, and certainly never close to 357 magnum, but this kind of development will make people stand up and realize what is there. The new "hammerdown" ammo is that it is clearly meant for rifles, and the bullets presumably will not perform as well at handgun speeds. I'll be sure and test this when I get some. The only odd thing is that the velocities are supposed to be from a rifle. The 327 federal (1650 fps), 44 mag (1715 fps) and 45 colt (1400 fps) are clearly rifle velocities. The 357 magnum is 170 grain listed at 1240 fps, which is not even fast in a handgun. 180 grain at 1300 fps is very doable from a handgun. I'm not sure what that is all about.

Mark McWillis

02-01-2020, 01:11 PM

And bless Ruger and Federal for keeping this wonderful cartridge alive.

Green Frog

02-03-2020, 09:12 PM

I've said it before, I sold my Ruger Blackhawk Buckeye Special in 32 Combo, and have regretted it ever since, but now that I have my Ruger 8 Shooter in 327 and my custom "Project 616" in 327 FM I plan to hold onto both of them until I can't hold onto anything any more. Others may want their 44 and 357 Mags (I have or have had both) but give me my 327s and I'll be a happy camper. :guntootsmiley:

Froggie

cwlongshot

02-03-2020, 09:31 PM

I cast up another batch of 135’s!

256044
256045
256046

These are WW water dropped. Then Powder coated my own mix and water dropped again out of oven.
I dont feel I need that hardness but its a test to prove that.

CW

Mark McWillis

02-04-2020, 07:48 PM

I have a few of those, too.

256095

cwlongshot

02-05-2020, 11:02 AM

VERY NICE Mark!!!

CW

Green Frog

02-06-2020, 11:54 AM

So now we’re color coding our bullets and the bins they go in too? I’m so far behind the curve! :(

Froggie

Mark McWillis

02-06-2020, 05:23 PM

So now we’re color coding our bullets and the bins they go in too? I’m so far behind the curve! :(

Froggie

Nah, I've got blue bins with red and black boolits, too. :drinks:

megasupermagnum

02-06-2020, 07:58 PM

So now we’re color coding our bullets and the bins they go in too? I’m so far behind the curve! :(

Froggie

I've got bullets that haven't even made it off the casting table yet.

scotth

02-15-2020, 01:28 PM

anybody have any updates.

cwlongshot

02-15-2020, 03:54 PM

I’m stoping at 7.3g with this 135g. No pressure but I broke 1250 and simply don’t “need” more.

Shoots great. Tomorrow I’ll. Try them in the Birdshead. ;)

CW

Mark McWillis

02-15-2020, 07:06 PM

I’m stoping at 7.3g with this 135g. No pressure but I broke 1250 and simply don’t “need” more.

Shoots great. Tomorrow I’ll. Try them in the Birdshead. ;)

CW

Well, that load ain't exactly slow.

Green Frog

02-15-2020, 08:28 PM

I’m stoping at 7.3g with this 135g. No pressure but I broke 1250 and simply don’t “need” more.

Shoots great. Tomorrow I’ll. Try them in the Birdshead. ;)

CW

I've been following this thread with great interest, CW, but I'm getting a little confused. The 7.3 gr you refer to is Blue Dot powder, right? So this means you are shooting your powder coated 135 gr bullet is being pushed ahead of 7.3 gr of Blue Dot at 1250 FPS in your test gun, right? What is this test gun? It obviously isn't your Birdshead S-7 as you say that will be used tomorrow.

Sorry if it seems I'm being dense here, but anything that stretches the boundaries the way these loads we're discussing here, I really want to understand completely before I proceed.

Thanks for additional input as well as your patience. ;)

Froggie

cwlongshot

02-15-2020, 08:55 PM

Hello Froggie

Yes, your correct. I haven’t shot the birds-head with these kids yet. I have 6,6.5,7 & 7.3 g loads ready to try.

This load started at 5.5g of Blue Dot. Then 5.8 & 6.0 gr. Then 6.5 and 6.8 and 7.0g. No issues with any. Cases slide out of my cylinder seemingly as do factory 100g AE ammo.

If your wanting to try I’d suggest 5.5 start seated max for the S7 cyl.

Green Frog

02-16-2020, 12:15 PM

I’ll be using the 125 gr NOE 314008 in virgin Starline brass, and I have a little more freedom of COAL because I’ll be shooting them in my Ruger Blackhawk and custom K-frame S&W. The Blue Dot should give me a promising pathway to pursue with a little more safety margin with a lighter bullet and stronger guns. Thanks for the good Information from your testing and for the inspiration it gives me.

Froggie

trapper9260

02-16-2020, 12:29 PM

For the 135 grs ,are they the ones use for the 32-20 or what, Because I know they are not common for use in the 327 ,I just wonder where to get the mold from and the different makes.

cwlongshot

02-16-2020, 05:29 PM

This mold is a Accurate 31-135s. It was designed expressly for the RUGER Single six to fit it’s shorter cylinder.

I have t yet tried it in the 32/20 but I will soon!

Froggy,

7.3 showed ever so slightly sticky extraction from the birds head guns. Cases still pushed right out, but most came out with resistance but under single finger pressure. 7g was fine. But 6 is nicer still and shot just as well as 7.3. Birds heads ain’t for stiff loads. ALL other kids where shot thru both guns and shot well and worked well.

megasupermagnum

02-16-2020, 08:33 PM

Here is some more data for you guys. I did a quick chronograph session with different primers, as I'm still trying to decide on which one works best. The load was as follows

7 grains Bluedot
Accurate 31-137K
1.605" OAL

For whatever strange reason, I forgot the Federal 100. I'll have to do that in the future, as that one shows a lot of promise on the target. I took 14 shots with each. The test gun was my 5" GP100 as usual. I tried to shoot for groups, but chronographing and group shooting at the same time is tough. I blew it, plain and simple. For what it's worth, the only group I felt all 7 shots were good was with the CCI 550. It went 2 1/4" at 50 yards.

CCI 500 standard
AV 1244
ES 45

Federal 205 small rifle
AV 1231
ES 33

CCI 550 magnum
AV 1258
ES 62

You will have to draw your own conclusions. To me, this tells me all three primers do just fine. Maybe a small advantage to the Federal 205. I've seen many times in the past that a magnum primer actually shoots slower than a standard primer. In this case the 550 magnum shot faster. So is the 205 small rifle stronger or weaker than the 550? It doesn't really matter.

I have shot this bullet with up to 8 grains of bluedot. I found no pressure signs at that level. While it shoots great with quenched bullets at that level, I found accuracy dropped off with air cooled bullets. I get the accuracy with air cooled bullets at 7 grains, and they are not slow at all.

It looks like I'm going to have to go to a primer shoot out for accuracy. Once I pick a primer, I can finally compare lubes like I had with the 45 acp.

Green Frog

02-17-2020, 10:08 AM

trapper9260

02-17-2020, 10:12 AM

DHDeal

02-17-2020, 10:29 AM

This data is good stuff. My heaviest is the Sledgehammer and I'm in a battle with it due to gat gas check shanks (we'll see when I get the NOE GC expander). My new Accurate Molds 31-126D shows promise. I have read about Brian Pearce suggesting SP primers instead of SPM for better ES. I do know I'll see flattened primers from 1/2 grain differences of powder.

As all I have in the burning range for the 327 is either H110, 4227, and HS6, that I'll need to get some AA9 and/or Bluedot. At least I have just about any brand and strength of SP/SR primers here.

Again, I appreciate the data and experiments as it can help shorten the learning curve for me.

cwlongshot

02-17-2020, 10:59 AM

Is there another company to get a heavy boolit mold from then the one stated? I will use the boolits in my BH ,SP101 and Handi Rifle.all in 327

Something wrong with Accurate? I have three molds built by them and every one casts beautifully was shipped promptly and works as expected.

Check out NOE maybe.

I also have a 311440 that drops large enough and also shoots well for
Me with BlueDot to 1050 FPS. I have e seen need to push harder.

CW

DHDeal

02-17-2020, 11:13 AM

CW makes a very good point about Tom @ Accurate Molds. Nowhere else that I'm aware of, does someone let you change his/others designs, creates a model of it in his catalog, and makes then ships that mold in about 5 days. My last one was a change to an existing design (31-126D) and I had that mold in my hands in 7 days with the weekend included.

I must have 10 of his molds now, but haven't counted them lately. I do know they cast as nice of a bullet as I could hope for and I'm picky, very very picky.

I do have 6 MP Molds here now and they are so well finished that I just enjoy looking at them when I unbox them. Tinning has been an issue with every one of them as I find myself not slowing down as they cast so well.

MP doesn't have the options that Tom does.

megasupermagnum

02-17-2020, 12:27 PM

Noe does not make anything comparable, Aresenal does not either. You could draw it on the Mountain molds website, he will make anything you choose.

You wont beat Accurate molds though, not in quality, price, or delivery time. They are tops.

MP molds is an option if you like hollow points, although the only thing they offer with a crimp groove for the single seven is the 125 grain mjolnir. I've heard less than stellar results with it. The better bullet is the 140 grain sledgehammer.The problem there is you are going to have to seat it well past the crimp groove for the single seven. The sledgehammer will fit with no problems in the SP101 and blackhawk, or any other current production gun besides the single seven. It will depend on the throat of your handi-rifle whether it will chamber in that or not.

Since you, presumably (due to an unknown rifle throat), are not limited to the single seven, I would recomend the Accurate 31-137K, MP molds 140 gr Sledgehammer, or the Accurate 31-148CG. I can send you samples of both Accurate bullets if you want to try them.

megasupermagnum

02-17-2020, 12:34 PM

...I have read about Brian Pearce suggesting SP primers instead of SPM for better ES. I do know I'll see flattened primers from 1/2 grain differences of powder. ...

I read that article in handloader too. I think he has other problems going on. While I have seen a few loads with the crazy ES's he is writing about, it is anything but the norm. You can see in my post above, I just am not seeing any huge differences between primers, and I'm not seeing huge ES's. This is with pretty much any bullet. Where I was seeing problems was with light bullets 100 grains or so, with slower powders. That's half the reason I kept going up in bullet weight.

There will never be a conclusive, all encompassing answer on what primers to use, and when. I use Federal standard primers with the 310 grain Lee in 44 magnum with H110. It performs the best. And here we are seeing some spectacular results with small rifle primers with flake powder in the 327 federal.

One problem I ran into with Starline brass in particular. It seems the annealing is questionable on some batches. I could feel bullets seat to different forces between each. I think Brian Pearce is looking in the wrong place.

Starline exchanged all my new brass for free, and the new stuff is much better.

megasupermagnum

02-17-2020, 12:45 PM

You guys are killing me! I went to the powder place and saw everything but Blue Dot! [smilie=b:

Now I’ve got a new quest just to find powder. So far my highest power loads have utilized either Accurate #7 or a surplus non-canister version of Accurate #9. As I get up into the higher end of the power range, my first signs of pressure have been pronounced flattening of the primers... cases still ejected easily. :Fire:

Another decision I need to make is whether I want to buy another mould just to pick up 10 grains of additional weight. Since the Accurate 31-135S is cut short for the S-7, it will give me lots of spare room in my K-frame, and of course length is a non-issue in the Blackhawk. One of the reasons I had for going with the 327 over the 32 H&R was to have the maximum flexibility of the power range in a straight side 32 revolver cartridge, and this 135 grain plug seems to be knocking on the door of that room! 8-)

One more question here; has anybody tried these loads with Winchester SP or SR primers? They have been my go to for the last 8-10 years or so. I’ve got some Federal Match primers (SR) but I prefer to save them for bench rest. [smilie=1:

Thanks for all the info, and keep on posting!! :coffeecom

Froggie

There is more to primer flattening, making it questionable at best. As I've said, one of my SP101's severely flatten primers with factory ammo, and handloads as well. Yet my GP100 hardly ever badly flattens primers with anything besides the Federal 100. In that I look for primer cratering instead. Even loads I consider unsafe, I still don't see total flattening. I just glued a strain gage to my Henry rifle, so in the future I may pressure test some of these loads.

While I love Bluedot, there are plenty of other powders that can work for you. Lots of people love AA #9. I never got spectacular results with it, but it is an option. H110 is of course a great power. IMR 4227 is a little bulky for this purpose. I admit to never having tried 2400, although it should do really well here. Even something like HS-6 or 800x might do well.

I have tried Winchester pistol primers, although not in a side by side test. They worked fine. I need to redo the above test with the Federal 100, I could easily include both the SP and SR Winchesters.

megasupermagnum

02-22-2020, 09:35 PM

wsp f100 wsr f200

Ok, I finished the second primer test. Due to a dwindling supply of lubed bullets, I could only shoot 7 shot strings. Same gun, same testing same load of 7 gr bluedot and 137 gr SWC. All powder charges weighed, same as before. The big difference was the temperature. Before it was about -5 outside, today it was over 35.

Winchester small pistol
AV- 1221 fps
ES- 27 fps

Federal 100 small pistol
AV- 1208 fps
ES- 28 fps

Winchester small rifle
AV- 1217 fps
ES- 46 fps

Federal 200 small pistol magnum
AV- 1211 fps
ES- 57 fps

The first thing that stuck out to me is that the velocities were all lower, even though it was about 40 degrees warmer. That got me thinking. I believe last time I took the ammo out of the warm house, into a warm truck, and right to shooting. Today The ammo sat in the truck bed for a few hours before shooting. Even though the outside temp was warmer, the ammo temp was likely cooler. For what it's worth, the average of the averages last time was 1244 fps. Today it was 1214 fps. So the temperature is definitely a variable, but it's the consistency I'm concerned with.

So here we see again that all primers do a respectable job. I even found some Federal 200's I didn't know I had. Again the SP magnum primer was the worst performer, although still good. Again we see where velocity seems to have no relation to primer. The small pistol primers were both the slowest and fastest primers. This does make me wonder if small rifle primers really are stronger than pistol primers at all.

Now here is the bad news, I had one pierced primer with the Winchester small pistol primers. This is the second time I've had this happen, and the other time was these Winchester primers as well. I have never pierced a primer in 327 federal with any other primer. It didn't hurt anything, it just got some dirt on my firing pin. I would not discount WSP on this alone, however, as it could just be my batch, just keep it in mind. WSR could work well. This isn't a high pressure load. If I had to guess, it woluld be 30,000-35,000 psi. I don't use Winchester primers, as they are always middle of the road. That and they seem to seat so hard.

All of this was to pick a primer to stick with. I have always used the CCI 500 for testing, as it is very tough, just like a rifle primer. Now that the results are in, I will shoot for accuracy. Numbers are good, but hitting the target is the ultimate goal. I will be testing the CCI 500 verses the Federal 100 verses the Federal 205.

Also a semi-update on the 167 gr WFN. I had loaded up some an shot groups at 50 yards. It is no tack driver, and I never expected it to me. Accuracy was in the 6-8" range. Being as I was getting sub 3" groups at 25 yards, this tells me they are not fully stabilizing. That's not the end of it though. I have other powders, as well as a 16.5" barrel rifle to try them in.

cwlongshot

02-23-2020, 06:48 AM

As always great information. THANK YOU FOR THE EFFORTS AND THE POSTING!

CW

megasupermagnum

03-07-2020, 05:55 PM

Well I finally got the primer shoot off done. Like a dummy, I forget the pistol rest. Instead I used some sand bags. It wasn't my best shooting ever, but plenty consistent. It was a good day in that I maintained a crisp view of the sights. Some days I get bug eyed after awhile. Not today luckily.

Anyway, the test was simple. It was the same load as before, 7 grains Bluedot with a 137 gr SWC at 1.605" OAL. The only variable was the primer. I loaded 28 of each primer, and fired in 7 shot groups, in my 7 shot GP100. I then averaged the groups. To reduce any variable of shooter fatigue, barrel heat, etc. I fired the groups concurrently. I shot 7 of the CCI, then Fed SP, then Fed SR. I then mixed them up Fed SR, CCI, Fed SP, and so on. Distance was 50 yards.

CCI 500 SP- 4.34" average
Federal 100- 4.69" average
Federal 205- 5.44" average

So what did I learn? Either CCI 500 or Federal 100 produce nearly identical results. The CCI 500 just narrowly beat out Federal 100, but it's worth noting it was only because of a single spectacular group of 2 3/4". The Federal 205 small rifle on the other hand doesn't shoot as well. Each group had 5 or 6 in a group similar to the SP primers, but always had 1 or 2 fliers. This was not me. At least not every time. As I said, each group was quite consistent. The CCI 500 had one great group of 2 3/4", but the worst was only 5". The Federal's ranged from 3 3/4" as best, and 5" as worst.

Being as the Federal 100 has about half the velocity ES as the CCI 500, that is likely the primer I will use in this load from now on. It just goes to show that velocity spreads mean next to nothing for accuracy, at least at close range. I'm sure differences can be seen at 200 yards.

All of my work up until this point has been with Starline brass, which has an inconsistent annealing. I recently purchased a healthy supply of Federal brand brass, and the difference is night and day. Now the question is how much of that quality will show up on target. Hopefully we will see, as my next test will be a lube test. Carnauba Red vs TAC 1 vs deluxe Xlox.

DHDeal

03-08-2020, 03:56 AM

A question on your primer test experiment. Will you fine tune the powder weight with the Federal 100's? I have almost no experience with Bluedot.

Coming from a 600 yard Benchrest background, I would find a load that gave good numbers and accuracy, then fine tune it further. We can't play very much with seating depth with these bullets, but with the 327 case being so small I suspect .2 grain increments would be telling.

You are providing very good information and it is appreciated.

The 327 hasn't acted like my 357's or the larger calibers at all to me. It's a whole different critter. My shooting partner calls mine a Las Vegas wh0re (no matter how much money you throw at it, it'll still break your heart). I'll get back to it as soon as my cylinder gets back from FA.

megasupermagnum

03-08-2020, 10:01 AM

Well, 7 grains is optimal with the CCI 500 primer. I could try adjusting with the Federal just to see. In this particular load, .2 grains has not amounted to anything so far. If I quench the bullet, I've been able to go as high as 8 grains and maintain the same accuracy.

DHDeal

03-08-2020, 02:04 PM

I figured you had played with the powder charge considering all of the other data you have supplied us, but asked because I didn't remember the whole thread.

I'll have to get some Bluedot and AA9 to try. Due to the case size, it seems that powders in that power range may be the optimal for the 327.

Again, thanks to everyone for the data provided in this thread as it is one of the most in depth dealing in heavy cast bullets in the 327.

dangitgriff

03-08-2020, 04:48 PM

Agreed, thanks to the OP and others for the info shared here.
My 3” SP101 keyholes at 10 yards with 115-grain SWC’s, shoots great with 100-grain jacketed. I’m thinking undersized boolits could be the culprit, as I didn’t measure them. What would you consider the maximum diameter for .327? What else should I check for?
—Griff

cwlongshot

03-08-2020, 05:40 PM

What does/ do the cyl throats measure Griff?

CW

dangitgriff

03-08-2020, 08:02 PM

Cylinder throats are .314...
Grooves measure .312 at the muzzle.

megasupermagnum

03-08-2020, 08:06 PM

Technically the maximum size is what will still chamber. Likely .316" or so. More practically .314" is what I run in all my guns. Every one of my handguns have throats just over .314". All of them pass a .314" pin gauge, none of them pass a .315" gauge. My Henry rifle has a throat just over .315" (I forget the exact .0001").

I've shot plenty of .313" without problems, but if you are sizing .312" or smaller, that could be the problem. It's also a good idea to pull some bullets and check that they are not being sized down by the brass. I used to shoot a 118 grain SWC plenty, even loaded light in my LCR, likely doing no more than 700-800 fps, I never once had key holing, so the bullet length/weight is not the problem. It wasn't until I pushed all the way to a 167 grain bullet that I found instability. All of my guns, rifle included, are 1:16" twist.

cwlongshot

03-08-2020, 08:08 PM

Use a 314 bullet to start.

Ideally the throats are same or slightly larger than bore. It’s wen the throats are smaller than the bore the real fun ensues.

Try a .314 bullet that’s what I have been using as well as 312 drop thru my cylinders. 313 mostly falls thru with maybe. 35% needling just a touch. 314 stays in cyl in 95% of the time.

I’m shooting very respectable groups out to 65ish yards. I have t checked farther yet. But I can hit a softball every time offhand at 65 yards with my cast and BlueDot. (It’s one of the only powders I have worked up so far)

Good luck

CW

dangitgriff

03-08-2020, 08:17 PM

Thank you, gentlemen, will do as advised.
R/Griff

megasupermagnum

03-31-2020, 03:14 PM

Here is an interesting update for you guys. I had recently given up on my Starline brass, and replaced it all with 2000 brand new Federal brand cases. Right away I could feel the difference when loading. Federal is far more consistent on their annealing.

I always said that neck tension is one of the most important aspects of handgun ammo. Well the proof is in the pudding. I loaded the same exact load as tested above. Fed 100 primers, 7 grains Bluedot (all charges weighted), 137 grain SWC, 1.605" OAL. I again shot the same 28 shot average, 4 groups of 7 shots each at 50 yards.

The result: 3.04" average

These were amazingly consistent. Maybe I had a fantastic day, but there is no doubt the Federal brass is a big part of this. What this really did was get rid of the fliers. The smallest group was 2 3/4" and the largest at 3 1/4".

I am finally content with this load. Next up is to test this load with TAC1 vs Carnauba Red VS Xlox lubes. The only bad thing about this is that right before testing I was shooting my 41 magnum that I couldn't get to shoot well at all. Well I finally found a load that shoots amazing. 11 grains 800x with the Arsenal 220gr RF went 2 1/2" at 50 yards for the days best group.

800x has always been my ace in the hole. I've been more than happy with my star performer Bluedot, but if anyone was not, 800x should be a great powder in 327 federal too.

cwlongshot

03-31-2020, 04:53 PM

megasupermagnum

03-31-2020, 06:15 PM

Observations now that I have two 327’s...

I have read and read again that many loads shot flattened primers. I speak of Factory and heavi(er) loads and this is exactly what I found with my Bisley. Nothing crazy but still fairly flat primers even on my moderate hand loads. Nature of the beast I guess.

Forward a month or so I have a Birds head now. I shot a few of the work up loads that I hadent yet pulled. Zero issues and loads right to same Max that was safe with Bisley... Only much less flattened primers!!! Now the RB grip isn’t as recoil friendly so I have loads tailored for each gun. But nice to know all
Loads are safe.

But odd from stand point almost zero flattened primers.

CW

It is odd. In 327 I currently have an LCR, SP101, I gave my other SP101 to my dad, and GP100, as well as the Henry rifle. Every one of them shows primer flattening different. My old SP101 really flattened primers, and my new SP101 not as much. My GP100 barely shows it all.

Headspace, chamber roughness, primer type, pressure, etc., they all effect the flattening you see. It is an unfortunate truth that primers are a rather poor indicator of pressure. I've got my rifle set up with a strain gage. I should try pressure testing some of these loads to see where I'm at.

cwlongshot

04-01-2020, 05:42 AM

Agreed -00%. I remind folks of that all the time.

“Ooh primer swipe or flat primers I’m overloaded!!” Well maybe maybe not what primers do you use? “Well all I had was SP and they fit fine in my 223!!”

Or same complaint... “ I ran out of CCI 550 and all I had was Federal 100’s!”

And there ya go... ;)

Some of us know primer cups come in different thickness and some primers are “softer” than others.

I have used every brand. Std and mag and while Mag do reduse flattening they don’t eliminate it even in otherwise medium at best powder charges. I loaded up some 60g lightning bolts. Pushing 1900 FPS. Primers looked. New, only with a dimple! ;). Just odd compared to what normally occurs in dozens of other calibers. Hasn’t bee a problem, cases always slide out of chambers and guns shoot well.

CW

DHDeal

04-01-2020, 11:01 AM

I've noticed my FA97 327 can flatten a primer like no other revolver I own, and that's more than a few.

As I've just got this revolvers bugs worked out, I'm still working up loads and it likes H110 and the GC Sledgehammer. I was running a primer test using 11 grains of H110 and Fed 100/200/205, and CCI 500/550/400. The Fed 100's looked like I spread peanut butter in the primer pocket, but the 200's and 205's looked like a normal fired primer. All of the CCI's looked similar to the Fed 200/205. Luckily I suppose, but the Fed 100 load wasn't even close to the most accurate so I'm done using it in the 327 with H110. All that stated, all cases would either fall out of the chambers or need only the slightest touch with the ejector rod to fall out.

I've read elsewhere that the CCI 400/550 were one and the same, and this load test again says it's true (at least in accuracy).

When I can, I'll take the chronograph to see what my numbers are.

megasupermagnum

05-05-2020, 06:39 PM

Warning, the following is not to be consider load data.

I tried a new to me powder today, Alliant Power Pro 300-MP. The talk is that this can even beat out H110. I opened the can, and recognized the powder immediately. Not as another powder, but from the Federal American Eagle 100 grain rounds for 327 federal! I pulled a bullet from a factory round, and holding side by side, I can not tell one iota difference between the Federal powder and 300-MP. I only weighted the one round, but that cartridge had 14.8 grains of powder. That's a hefty load compared to the next closest load data with H110 at 13.2 grains max.

I did not think to do any definitive tests, but measured by volume, H110 and 300-MP seem pretty dang close in weight.

So I broke out the 167 grain bullet, and tried it again, this time with 300-MP powder. I loaded up to 11.9 grains. 12.2 grains would not fit without adjusting the seater to compress more. I used CCI 550 magnum primers. It was not until later I found that this powder supposedly works well with standard primers. I may try that in the future. Temperature was about 55 degrees, shots fired 8' from the chrony from my 5" GP100. OAL was 1.650", which is longer than the H110 test. This will fit the GP100 barely, or Blackhawk. Possibly the Freedom arms. But nothing smaller.

10.5 gr- 1021 fps
11.0 gr- 1060 fps
11.3 gr- 1103 fps
11.6 gr- 1154 fps
11.9 gr- 1195 fps

I had a target up, but was not concentrating too hard on accuracy. Again I found marginal accuracy with the first two loads, and good accuracy at 1100 fps+. The target was at 50 yards, and they do seem to be better than with H110. I would say 5"-6". Not great, but quite serviceable for what this is. The improved accuracy could also be due to some other change I did not think of. I did not write down the extreme spreads, but one nice thing I noticed was that the ES's were lower than H110 across the board. Where H110 seemed to prefer the lower charges, and got worse as it compressed, 300-MP seems to like the compression. No pressure signs at any point of testing, brass fell right out.

Now unrelated to the 327 federal, I tried some 300-MP in my new 357 magnum, also a 5" GP100 lipseys special. I dug out some old Remington 158 grain jacketed soft points I forgot I had. Alliant load data lists a max load of 18.6 grains. I again used CCI 550 primers, and loaded to a 1.590" OAL.

18.2 gr- 1320 fps
18.6 gr- 1356 fps
19.0 gr- 1378 fps
19.4 gr- 1374 fps
19.8 gr- 1381 fps

So here we show a plateau. Unfortunately the velocities were not quite what I expected. This is a new to me gun, so it could run a touch slow, but this is comparable to H110, maybe even slower. I was hoping for a good 100 fps boost, which some have claimed. Oh well, maybe with heavier bullets, I don't like 158's anyway. I have no idea on accuracy, did not test. At 19.8 grains, primers looked normal, brass did not stick per-se, but it did not fall out of the cylinder either. About 19.2 grains looks promising.

cwlongshot

05-05-2020, 08:48 PM

I like this powder. I wish more testing was done and there was more data.

Its the best 300 BO powder for <150g for me. 1680 is best >150.

Kinda cold for TX no?

Thanks for posting!!

CW

megasupermagnum

05-09-2020, 07:34 PM

Warning, the following is not to be consider load data.

In 327 federal, I brought out the 148 grain Accurate 31-148CG today, cast as a solid, not a hollow point. Again I was using the CCI 550 primer. OAL was 1.595".

300-MP:

11.5 gr- 1106 fps

12.0 gr- 1175 fps

12.5 gr- 1229 fps

12.8 gr- 1266 fps

H110:

11.5 gr- 1155 fps

12.0 gr- 1200 fps

12.5 gr- 1261 fps

12.8 gr- 1292 fps

So in this instance we see H110 outperform 300-MP. Both in speed, as well as velocity spreads. I stopped at 12.8 grains, as that was about all that could fit, and was well compressed. At the max load, 300-MP had an ES of 93 fps, and H110 an ES of 19 fps. I did not test accuracy. No load showed any pressure signs, all cases fell right out of the cylinders.

So moving back to 357 magnum, I tried the Federal 100 standard primer with 300-MP. This time I was using the 175 grain Keith bullet at an OAL of 1.650".

17.0 gr- 1215 fps

17.5 gr- 1239 fps

18.0 gr- 1297 fps

18.4 gr- 1353 fps

Certainly no plateau this time. Still not quite the velocity I was hoping for, but not bad. Again the ES's were higher than I like 70 to as high as 100 fps. So it seems the standard primer did not help. For comparison I shot a load I found in one of my old load notes. 15.7 gr H110 went 1201 fps. On another day I shot my old standard load of 10 grains Bluedot with this bullet for 1220 fps, which is normal. Maybe I have a slow lot of H110, and I can certainly work up higher than 15.7 gr. I had that noted as an accurate load.

So it seems that 300-MP is not the speed demon that some have found it. I've still got a 137 grain bullet to try it with in 327 federal, as well as a 330 grain in 44 magnum. I see nothing that will de-throne H110 as THE magnum powder.

megasupermagnum

05-15-2020, 02:52 PM

Warning, the following is not to be consider load data.

Some more data for you guys with the 137 grain SWC. Accurate 31-137K mold. I only had enough to test 300-MP today.

GP100 5"
62 degrees temperature today
137gr SWC
1.605" OAL
CCI 550 primer
300-MP

12.0 gr- 1231 fps AVG: 69 fps ES
12.5 gr- 1296 fps AVG: 41 fps ES
13.0 gr- 1336 fps AVG: 31 fps ES
13.5 gr- 1367 fps AVG: 69 fps ES

I recorded the extreme spreads today, as this is the first time they have been what I consider reasonable. 12.5 and 13.0 is actually pretty good. My guess is H110 will be better though. The other thing is the velocities were well below expectations. Consider that with the same exact bullet in the same exact gun 7.0 grains of bluedot turns in around 1220 fps, and 8.0 grains turns in around 1350 fps. So we have effectively matched bluedot, with a lot more muzzle blast and less consistency.

I have to say I am not impressed with 300-MP at all so far. I am done with the chronograph for now. Unless by some miracle the accuracy bests H110, even with most loads turning in 90+ fps extreme spreads. I don't see it happening. It was a fun experiment anyway.

dangitgriff

05-15-2020, 04:54 PM

I plan on using H110 and Accurate No. 9 for my load development with 100-grain XTP HP’s. I tried the factory Hornady and was satisfied with the accuracy from my SP101 3”.
Thinking about acquiring a Henry in 20” for Christmas this year and revisiting this thread. Maybe the Moderators would consider making it a sticky like they thankfully did for the .41 mag...[emoji51]

DHDeal

05-16-2020, 08:16 AM

I read this thread each time there is an update (and thanks for keeping it going). Due to tests here and articles over the years, I tried AA9 and now have some Bluedot for the 327.

With my 2 molds for the 327 (MP Sledgehammer and Accurate 31-126D) I have tried H110, HS6, and N350. All shoot accurately and can't say I would not be happy with any of them, but.....

I've had to jump through some hoops blindfolded to get my 327 to really like cast due to very tight throats, but I just did what I felt needed to be done. Anyway, AA9 at 9.3 grains, Sledgehammer GC with PC, Fed 200, and Starline brass will group into a spot on my steel at 50 yards. H110 is just about the same but with a blast you can see in daylight. Since I'm a huge fan of H110 (I use more of it than any other revolver powder), it's not like I didn't know it would be a light show. AA9 has less blast and accuracy is stellar with both of my bullets. Unless something better comes along for the 327 (maybe a heavy jacketed JHP) the 2 molds I have and either H110 or AA9 should cover me as this combo and the revolver I have make me smile!

I considered 300-MP due to reviews for the bigger calibers, but considered that I have about 12 pounds of H110 and I "know" H110. Thanks for adding your review of it for the 327 megasupermagnum.

PositiveCaster

05-16-2020, 04:39 PM

How did BlueDot work for you? It is stellar in my .32 H&R, wondered how the accuracy is in the .327. It won’t be as fast velocity-wise as AA-9 or H110...

.

BustedFlipFlop

03-03-2024, 09:22 PM

Aight. New guy here, resurrecting an old thread.

I've been playing with the 31-137k (Lyman #2, pc; CCI 550; Fed brass; 1.605" COL) and Blue Dot out of my 16.5" Henry (primarily). I've been running 5 round ladder loads, 0.2gr steps, starting at 6.0gr, currently at 8.0gr. Velocity increase is pretty dang linear, no crazy spikes. The 8.0gr load is clocking 1586 fps, 34 ES.

8.0gr loads show no sign of overpressure. Easy extraction, and honestly, the primers look better than the factory AE 100gr loads.

So I'm curious if, in the last 4 years, any of you fellas have found a max load with this particular boolit/powder combo?

BustedFlipFlop

03-03-2024, 09:30 PM

I did find a notable difference between CCI 550 (SPM) and WSP primers, with the Winchester small pistol giving both a notable increase in velocity and decrease in ES. These were the only 2 options I had on hand, and I only tried them in the 7.0gr load. But I intend to run another ladder from 7.0 - 8.0 using the WSP.

31-137K
7.0gr Blue Dot
CCI 550
Fed brass
1.605" COL
1494 FPS, 59 ES

31-137K
7.0gr Blue Dot
WSP
Fed brass
1.605" COL
1560 FPS, 25 ES

BustedFlipFlop

03-05-2024, 09:18 PM

Guess I'm the only guy still playing with this stuff. I guess it's still good for posterity, though.

Worked up some more of these loads using WSP primers this time, 7.2gr - 8.0gr Blue Dot. Stopped after the five 7.6gr loads because of case head separation issues. One crack was open enough for dirty blowby. The other 6 were incipient, not actually open. There was a total of 15 rounds fired, so not a good average, to say the least, lol.

However, I have a sneaking suspicion that this problem is more due to crappy Federal brass and an undersized Lee sizing die. The velocities were all right were expected, ES was in the 20s.

Fired brass measures .337", and the Lee sizer squeezes them down to about .3295". Seems a bit excessive, and gives the cartridge a barbell shape. All cracks are obviously just above the webbing, right at the sharp transition to the undersized body diameter. Running fired brass through the gutted FCD squeezes them down to .335", which seems quite adequate.

I think I'll keep the remaining 70 or so pieces of brass in this batch separate and see if they continue to fail with proven loads. Gotta see if I can find some Starline.
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