making match bullets

[jballs918]

ok i did a search on this and had a ton of things that had nothing to do with this. i'm looking to start making some match ammo for a 7.5x55. now the first thing is this ammo will be only used for target shooting. no hunting or any thing like that. what im looking for it what is the best process for making a true match quality casted boolit. i know there will be alot of different answers for this. there are a few things that i need to know

1. what is the best mold for doing this. ok i found 3 moulds for this: the RCBS 308-165-sil, Lee C309-180r, or the LY#311291. if anyone could tell me if there is a big differance on these please inform me
2. what is the best lead recipe for it
3. is there anything extra for the process, ei. dropping on water or baking in the oven anything like that.
4. what lube would work well with this

i need to buy the mold so if i could get a good answer for that so i can get it on order that would be great, it can be a single cav, i dont care about production, im worried about quality on this. actually a single would be ideal.
well thanks in advance for all the help i know i will get.

jason

[Pilgrim]

BEFORE you go and buy a mould, try to mooch as many of the .30 cal. bullet designs from us'ns on this board as you can and try them all. There is absolutely no way to tell what bullet your rifle will like without shooting them. You don't need to have "the load" either. Pick a reasonable load for your testing, and shoot all of them at about the same velocity. Your rifle will definitely tell you which boolits it likes and which it doesn't like. Low velocity loads (BPCR for example) are generally plain based as the velocity (and consequently chamber pressure) isn't very high. If you want velocities above ~ 1400 fps +/-, then you want a GC bullet. It makes life much much simpler for higher velocity loads.

The fact RCBS calls that particular bullet design a "silhouette" bullet doesn't necessarily make it so. It may not shoot accurately worth "doggy done it" in your particular rifle. Note that they also make a 30-150 and a 30-180 besides that 30-165. Unless you are trying for long range and fairly high velocities (say 2000 fps or higher) the difference in trajectory between a FP, RN, and SP doesn't matter worth a hoot. The differences between the trajectory of one vs. the other is not likely to be more than a couple of inches at 200 yards, at most, all things being equal. For target work you know the range and can adjust your sights accordingly.

Similarly, the bullet hardness you need will also be indicated by your particular rifle. The smoother and more uniform your bore, the less likely you will need a harder bullet. The more cylindrical your bullet, the less likely it will slump and thus can be softer, etc. Essentially, the need for a distortion free bullet is paramount to accuracy. As long as your bullet can leave the case and transit the bore and muzzle without being distorted, you have a bullet that is hard enough. If your bullet is unsupported at any place along the line, then you will need a harder/tougher bullet to prevent distortion.

As far as boolit lube goes, use a good one. Apache Blue, LBT Blue, FWFL, and I suspect a bunch of others are all good. Note that it is possible to have a bullet with too much lube, just as it is possible to have too little lube. Your accuracy will tell you that as you work to refine your load. The "star" at the muzzle of your rifle can help you figure out your lube needs. In general, Loverin bullets shoot very well as they have a whole lot of bullet surface in contact with the bore which helps prevent bullet distortion. They also have lots of lube grooves which you can lube or not as needed. You don't have to fill all the grooves just because they are there! The harder you push the bullet, the more likely you will need more lube than compared to say gallery loads.

Finally, the "experts" "all" use single cavity moulds, or at most one cavity of a multiple cavity mould. Unless you are shooting at extreme long range, or perhaps in a Bench Rest application, I'm not convinced that a single cavity is necessary. One thing that is necessary however, is absolutely BRUTAL bullet examination and sorting. Again, depending upon the accuracy you need, weighing each bullet may not be necessary. However, they all need to be visually perfect. They all should be cast from a similar, if not identical alloy. The BR type CB shooters even keep track of the sequence of boolits cast and shoot them in that sequence! I'm not quite that anal (yet), but if it shows as needed, I'll get that way real quick.

Enough preaching from this corner...FWIW.......Pilgrim

[StarMetal]

Here's two bullets just to show their performance difference, not to suggest them for you match bullet at all. They are the Lyman 311466 151 gr which is a pretty pointed bullet and the Lyman 151 311440 151 gr which has a flat blunt nose. Both shot at 1600 fps the pointed drops 33.48 in at 200 yds and the blunt nose one drops 37.50 in at 200. The midrange, which would be 100 yards is 9.33 for the pointed and 10.88 for the blunt. Anyways that drop at 200 yds is more then a difference of a few inches at 100 yds, it's like 4.02 inches and the midrange is over 1.5 inches. I definately would pick the more streamlined bullet for match shooting even if it is at a lower velocity and short distance. Now if I were hunting I'd pick the bluntnosed one.

Joe

[David R]

Jballs,

What is your groove dia? I get .300.

I have a few extra 311466 and 311291, but can't size em.

send a PM if you want a few.

David

[jballs918]

ok guys,

im still a beginner on all of this, i kinda lost on the whole size thing. from what i gather the 7.5x55 is a .309 diameter right. your im i wrong on that

[Maven]

jballs, My two K-31's slug .307", but I size my CB's to .309". As for multiple cavity molds, you may find bullets from one cavity are more accurate than those from the other: Use that one (I.e., you don't have fill both of them.) Additionally, the accuracy you get will also depend on how fast you drive the CB, CB design, care in casting (They have to be perfect: No slag inclusions, poorly filled out areas, knicks on the base, etc.), whether you segregate them by weight (You want as little variation as possible.), quality of your bbl., your shooting technique, etc. You'll also need to work up a good load, which means you'll need to experiment with several different powders and charge weights. Keep in mind that the faster you drive CB's, the harder they need to be. Wheel weights + 1% tin can be heat-treated to boost their hardness considerably, harder than linotype for ex. As for loading data, get a copy of Lyman's "Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd. Ed." and look at some of the loads for the .308Win. (7.62 x 51mm) as a starting point. I'd add 5744 to the list (22gr. with the Lee C-309-180R or Lyman #311291). Hope this helps!

[versifier]

Just because the "listed diameter" of the 7.5x55 is .309, doesn't necessarily mean that that is actually the size of your rifle. :idea: Slug the bore first and measure it to find out what you've got. If you've never done it, it's not a difficult procedure to drive a soft oversize lead slug through the barrel with a mallet and a dowel. A vernier or a mic will give you both of the necessary measurements of bore diameter and groove diameter. Then you know what size(s) and styles (and lubes and powders and velocities) to begin experimenting with to find out what your's likes best. :D [smilie=w:

[StarMetal]

David,

Don't get Jballs more confused then he may be, did you mean bore of .300 not groove diameter?

Jballs, what Maven said is dead on. if you take two cartridges, yours and the 308, you notice the metric measurement for the 308 is 7.62 and your Swiss of course is already in metric at 7.55. That right there tells you that the Swiss is just a hair smaller then the American 308. Ideally measurements on the 308 will be a .300 bore (thus where the 30 caliber comes from) and the from groove to groove diameter is .308. Like Maven said his groove to groove on his rifles is .307 and I'm hearing that from alot of Swiss owners. Follow what Maven is telling you, he's pretty good to get information from.

Joe

[StarMetal]

David,

308= 7.62x55 huh?????????????? That doesn't make sense. First off the dimensions of the 308 nato cartride, which is for the brass only is 7.62x51 mm. Where do you get 308 = 7.62x55??? That doesn't describle the bore and groove diameter either. 7.62 mm's works out to be .2999991 inchs. 7.65 mm's works out to be .3011802. Those military metric designation are suppose to describe the bore diameter and the cartridge length. 7.55 comes out to be .2972432

If you're not sure about this stuff, or what is in your head just doesn't get transferred correctly in print, then don't post it.

So, I know you feel I'm picking on you but you are putting incorrect information on the forum. If we are to teach a newcomer we have to do so correctly. Don't worry I'm guilty of mistakes too, alot of them.

Joe

[swheeler]

Mine -K31-groove .3082" Yours could be very different, I shoot boolits sized in .309 sizer, they come out about .3095 with the alloy I'm using.

[jballs918]

ok i guess i will poke ariund and see what i can find, maybe get a few different CB from a few different peeps. im starting to get a go handle on understanding on the bore. i will work on seeing what i have. thanks all

[andrew375]

To start with keep things simple, you can get more sophisticated as you learn what works and what doesn't.

Buy the Lee mould. They are cheap enough not worry about whether the bullets will work or not and I've yet to come across a Lee design that wasn't accurate. To start, cast from wheel weights and heat treat by dropping from the mould into water. Use the Lee sizing system to seat the gas check. Using this recipe i get moa accuracy at 2200 fps from my .308win.