Group Buy - MMA's 44 KEITH SWC

[MakeMineA10mm]

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/MakeMinea10mm/MakeMineA10mm_%234_265_gr.gif

Even though the Catshooter is back, he has graciously conceded to let me run my own version of the Keith SWC in 44 Caliber. My version is different than his which ran about a year and a half ago. I want to be sure to mention that Cat IS running a 44-caliber boolit soon. His will be a medium-weight RNFP. So, if you want an economical boolit for using in your lever-gun or for CAS, definitely check out his group buy for that. (When it goes up, I’ll put a link here.)

Back to the KEITH –

Many of you saw or posted to the interest thread (here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=34146)). Basically, there are a LOT of moulds out there that call themselves a KEITH or KEITH-TYPE boolit. We went back and read what Elmer had to say about his boolit design, as well as sampled many old and new boolits (mostly thanks to member GLL – we all owe him a debt of gratitude for helping with this), that claim to be, or really are, Keith-style boolits. After doing a lot of measuring and comparing, the following design has been established:

Here’s the drawing:

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/MakeMinea10mm/MakeMineA10mm_%234_265_gr_Sketch.gif

Some specifics:
The front and middle drive bands are as close to an RCBS 44-250-KT (part #82044) as we're going to get. They are exactly the same width as close as I can measure them.

The crimp groove is very, very close to the Ballisti-Cast #1103, which is, of course, the heir to the original H&G #503, a mould Elmer praised in his later years as being the only “real” Keith mould available then (the early 70s). (I would also point out that this crimp groove is extremely similar to the OLD Ideal #429421; therefore, I believe the Ballisti-Cast moulds of today are still quite authentic to the original Keith.) A side-benefit of this type crimp groove is that it will hold some lube in there, if you’re so inclined to put it there.

The meplat and nose shape is as close to the RCBS & Ideal boolits as possible. The meplat measurements are virtually identical to the RCBS. This is a slight variance from the original Keith, because it is wider by a few thousandths. When it comes to meplats; wider IS better... :-)

The base band was modified to be a little longer than the middle and front bands. This was to resist the hotter, slower-burning powders of today and to make sure the steering end of the boolit had a good long length. This helps accuracy, avoids leading, and helps the balance of the bullet. It’s so little longer than the mid and front bands that it’s hard to see a difference by eye.

The lube groove is modified as well. The only criticism I had of the RCBS 82044 was that the lube groove seemed shallow (but not necessarily too small in width). I also did not think the enormously wide and deep lube groove of the Ideal 429421 was necessary thanks to our modern lubes working so much better. BUT, I didn't want anyone shooting traditional lubes, like 50/50 or SPG, etc., to suffer from insufficient lube, so I sized the lube groove to be deeper then the RCBS, but the same width. This provides enough lube volume without being excessively large.

The weight is a little on the heavy side. Depending on how close Lee cuts it, this boolit will weigh out at 265grs from straight WWs and a few grains lighter (~260-262grs or so) out of WW+2% tin. While I know Keith often disparaged designs that claimed to follow his formula, but turned out heavier, this design doesn't go too heavy, and it really does follow all of his principles. Also, keep in mind that Keith cast from 1:16 tin-to-lead, so this would account for a little (very little) weight difference in our favor also.

So, is this an EXACT duplicate of a Keith boolit? No. It is really, really close, though. The changes are very slight and are only incorporated to address changes due to modern powders and lubes. The important principles that Elmer outlined as absolute requirements are still there.

Here's a sketch of it in the chamber of a 44 Spl. (Please note the crimp groove is not the same as the final version, but all other dimensions are.)
http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/MakeMinea10mm/44_S&W_SPL_Colt~MakeMineA10mm_%234.gif

PLEASE NOTE!! As you can see, this bullet has a long, full-diameter front band. Note how it will engage and jam in the throat of a chamber (revolver or rifle), if you do not size the boolit to your throat diameter. Recall that Elmer wanted this, because it centers the cartridge and boolit in the chamber. I just want you to be aware, because if you buy this mould, you must measure your throats and size accordingly. (Probably something most if not all members of this forum know and do anyway, but I had to have a disclaimer about this.)

Another disclaimer: Keith SWCs have TOO LONG of a front band and out-of-case length to feed properly in many/most lever-action rifles. This is usually dealt with by seating the boolit so that the front edge of the front band sits even with the case mouth. (Or just above it, with a separate crimp die crimping the mouth into the front band somewhere.) However, I’m making no promises this boolit will work in your lever-action. If you want a boolit that will feed in your lever-gun, please check out Catshooter’s medium-weight RNFP group buy that will be up soon, if not already.

I am specifying this mould be cut to .433”, which means that it will drop from the mould at about .432”. Given Lee’s tolerance of +/-.000” to +.003”, these could come out as big as .435”, but we won’t really know until we get the moulds from Lee. Of course, you can size down, or if they are too small for your application, Beagling is the fix.

Cost of this Group buy will be $69 per 6-cavity Lee Aluminum mould, shipping included. (There’s a $1 donation for this website, and some money to provide free moulds to a couple people who were instrumental in helping this design/group buy come about.)

As on all of my group buys, please post below if you are in. Once I get a firm 25-30 moulds ordered, I will PM you payment info and ask for your return shipping address. If you live outside the USA, note that in your post, and I’ll address shipping costs in my PM back to you.

Isn’t she beautiful?
http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/MakeMinea10mm/MakeMineA10mm_%234_265_gr.gif

[EDK]

One mould for EDK please.

Let me know when and where for the yankee dollars.

Thanks to everyone who helped put this together.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[.38 Special]

I'll take one.

[big dale]

I need one of these to feed my Rugers. I have never played this game before so please be gentle on me and let me know what I need to do and where to send how many U.S. dollars and in what form.

Big Dale Wilkinson 75023
Brimbum@aol.com

[MakeMineA10mm]

Big Dale,
WELCOME!!! I'll be gentle with you, but you still may not like me. Once you start getting custom gang moulds from the group buys here, you are more than likely going to become addicted...


The ordering process is simple. Lee has a minimum order to waive the set-up fee. (25 moulds). If we don't go over that number, the price will go up a little, because I have to factor in the set-up fee. (I'm sure we'll go over that number for this boolit.) Once I'm confident we will go over that number, I send you a Private Message here at Cast Boolits explaining where to send the money along with your real name and shipping address. Once I get everyone's (or almost everyones) order, I ship off the drawing and a check to Lee, and declare the group buy closed.

Then, the REALLY HARD PART begins: waiting for our order to move through the process at Lee. Right now, this is taking an amazing 9 months....

Once they come in, I re-ship them to you for your casting and shooting pleasure.


Thanks EDK and 38 Spl. I want at least one of these myself, so we're at a solid four for now... We'll let this run for awhile. I didn't put an end target-date, because there are always folks who come here intermittently, especially in the Summer time. So, we may let this run for a little while, just to get as many in as possible. (It never works out that you actually get EVERY one in who wants in, but we'll try to give everybody a chance.) :drinks:

[MakeMineA10mm]

Update!

I got to thinking about the reputation Keith boolits have for not feeding in lever-actions, and recalled that I had a buddy with an old 92 which would not feed them very well. I also realized I'd never tried any through my new Marlin 1894SS. So, I loaded a dummy round with one of the RCBS 44-250-KT (part #82044) that GLL sent me. (Above the crimp groove - front driving band, nose, and meplat - this Group Buy design is identical to the RCBS design.)

Took it upstairs and tried it in my Marlin, fully expecting having to take it apart... Well, to my utter astonishment, the round fed like butter. I mean, no difference in feel of the lever between this and my RNFPs... I tried it working the lever slow with as little effort as possible, working the lever as hard and jerky as I could, turning the rifle around 90-degrees and trying it all four ways - right side up, upside down, ejection port up, and ejection port down, and I could not get this boolit to hang-up, catch, stutter, or in any way act like it had a problem feeding...

When this 6-cavity comes in, I may have to turn into a one-boolit kind of guy for the 44 Magnum... (Nah, there's other good ones out there, but this is going to be my favorite; I can already tell...)

Of course, I cannot promise you it will work through your lever-gun, but I'm feeling quite lucky/satisfied today... :Fire:

[Lloyd Smale]

I need one too but this bullet and a couple others are going to have to wait a couple weeks for me to replenish the gun fund.

[rugerdude]

Better put me down for one, too. Man, my wife is gonna kill me for even THINKING about buying something else gun-related! Oh well, I may have to sell off one of the "kids" to finance this! NOT the one thats my avatar though, he's mine! Talk about ticking off the wife! :mrgreen:

[Mack Heath]

Same here, but it will have to wait a bit to allow recruiting the necessary capital.

[Firebird]

The other way to use Keith SWC in lever actions is to load them in the shorter Special cases. The feeding problems are usually caused by too long OAL of the cartridge due to the long nose on a Keith SWC, putting the bullet into the shorter Special case fixes this.

And after all, Keith never designed a bullet for a Magnum cartridge, he only designed bullets for the 38 Special, 44 Special, 45 Colt and 45 ACP/Auto Rimmed. The bullets just got used in the magnum cartridges after the magnums were introduced.

And I'll take a mold too, but will have to wait a few weeks to get the money.

[Meatco1]

Well I have to admit I'm interested also. However, my concern is the length of this bullet. So, I have a couple of questions for you 10mm.

(1) Will the loaded bullet fit into the S & W 629 chamber using .44 mag cases, and crimped on the crimp grove?

(2) I would also like to know if this will be a round or sq cut lube grove?

Thanks,

Richard

[MakeMineA10mm]

(1) Will the loaded bullet fit into the S & W 629 chamber using .44 mag cases, and crimped on the crimp grove?

Short-answer is YES!

As I said above, this design has the exact same out-of-case length as the RCBS 44-250-KT, therefore, if the RCBS works, this one will too. In addition, when I loaded up that dummy round today to try through my Marlin, I also stuck it in the cylinders of both of my S&W629s, and while it reached out to very near the end of the cylinder, it was still well below the end of the cylinder. I didn't have my depth-measuring calipers with me, but I'll re-check that tomorrow night, as well as give you the measurements of the length of both of my S&W 629 cylinders.


(2) I would also like to know if this will be a round or sq cut lube grove?


The lube groove is basically square-cut. If you look at the mechanical drawing above, you'll see there is a slight inclined angle from the drive bands to the bottom of the lube groove. This is done so that the boolits will fall out of the mould cavities and not hang up on the parallel-sided "shelf" created by a perfectly vertical / square lube groove. With proper measuring equipment, I'm sure we'd find that all of the "traditional square-cut" lube grooves actually have inclined angles for this very reason...


Good questions.

[MakeMineA10mm]

To all - I plan on leaving this open a little while. I want to see as many people as possible get in on this. Looks like we already have 10, that's a great start in one day! Don't worry about the money end of this. I won't start asking til probably closer to the middle or end of September.

[376Steyr]

I'm in. You can never be too rich or have too many "Keith" style moulds.

[.38 Special]

Thanks EDK and 38 Spl. I want at least one of these myself, so we're at a solid four for now... We'll let this run for awhile. I didn't put an end target-date, because there are always folks who come here intermittently, especially in the Summer time. So, we may let this run for a little while, just to get as many in as possible. (It never works out that you actually get EVERY one in who wants in, but we'll try to give everybody a chance.)

No worries. I'm a .44 Special nut so have all the various "pseudo-Keith" molds. I can survive a few more months without another one. :)

[Ed K]

I see all of the drawings - both here and in the feeler thread spec out a 0.433" boolit. However the detailed notes on the group buy say 0.432" boolit and beagle if you need more. Hmmm... I realize it is the Honcho's prerogative here - just didn't notice any discussion to this effect.

[kooz]

Count me in for one....maybe two if it runs long enough.

[johnch]

I am in for 1

John

[Meatco1]

Works for me also. Count me in for one.

Let me know when you need the check.

Thanks,


Richard

[Mohillbilly]

Another Kieth for me.

[gunsbrad]

I guess I just need 1.

Thanks guys.

Brad

[Clyde]

I'm in for one mould.

[readr1]

Put me down for one, please!!!

[wickerbill]

I'm in for one. Let me know when you need a MO.

[siamese4570]

MM10: Ok, now you went and done it! Sign me up for one of these. Let me know where and when to send the money.

Siamese4570

[MakeMineA10mm]

MM10: Ok, now you went and done it! Sign me up for one of these. Let me know where and when to send the money.

Siamese4570

[smilie=1: :mrgreen:

18 pre-orders so far. Pretty darn good. I'm very confident this is going to fly.



Ed K - to answer your question: the drawing we send to Lee is the drawing of the cavity, not the boolit. So, most of the dimensions you see will shrink by the amount of shrinkage associated with the alloy you use. (There's a chart in the Lyman reloading manual and cast-bullet manual that indicates how much each alloy shrinks.) The reason I picked .433" is because a .432" boolit works for most people (unless you have a really over-size bore/throats). In fact for people who need a .429" to .430" boolit, we're at about the limit of being oversize at .432". If you do need bigger, it isn't hard to add a couple thousandths by beagling the mould. And, as I explained before, if Lee cuts these .002" to .003" over specification, we're going to have oversize moulds anyway... (Luckily, Lee has been hitting the mark pretty close with their new machine, it sounds like.) Basically, the bottom line is that there is no way to pick one size and make everyone happy, and I don't want to run two simultaneous group buys for two sizes of mould, especially with Lee's tolerances being what they are...



meatco1 - I took some measurements for you. Here they are:

The OAL of the cartridge I loaded with the RCBS boolit is 1.705". (This is loaded in brand new 44 Magnum brass that has a length of 1.280".)

My 629-1 has a cylinder length of 1.702"
My 629-4 has a cylinder length of 1.704"

Neither of these cylinders has the cut for recessing the rim of the case, so we need to deduct .057" from the length of the loaded round, leaving us around .055" of space before the boolit sticks out the front of the cylinder...

Just to verify, I loaded the dummy round and used the depth-measuring end of my calipers and got the following readings on four chambers (2 each on each gun):

.059"
.054"
.050"
.052"

(Why are there variations? Well, because I didn't measure the cylinders in 12 places and average them. I just threw the calipers on and took 1 measurement. Also, I did the same with the thickness of the rim of the cartridge and the OAL of the loaded round. There are going to be slight variations in everything, but those are all within a few thousandths of each other - at least on the same gun.)

Basically, there's no problem fitting this boolit in your S&Ws, but I'd for sure apply a heavy crimp to keep them boolits from creeping anywhere under recoil... (Been there, done that!) :Fire:

[Ed K]

MakeMineA10mm - Thank you for the reply.

I understand the need to send a dimensioned cavity drawing to Lee. I didn't realize the drawing was not a boolit drawing but rather a cavity drawing. Maybe I was further confused when looking at the chambered round cutaway drawing: those dimensions are the same as the cavity - not allowing for any alloy shrinkage whatsoever.

Anyhow you seem to have a very nice boolit here. Unfortunately, I'm looking to have a boolit to fit very large throats: 0.433"+ so I would likely need to bump these up 1.5-2 thousandths. I do understand you cannot go too far oversize for the 0.430" folks.

Looks like I'll pass on this one. Good luck with the buy. It looks like it is well on its' way already.

[buckndee]

I could use another Kieth type 44 bullet to play with, this one looks like it is designed to cast and shoot good. Plus it is 6 cavity, lots of boolits per cast.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hi Ed. I understand what you're saying. (Out of curiosity, what gun ya got that needs those large-diameter boolits?)

Only thing I can say is that Lee will probably make some of these moulds that are a little bigger than .433". I plan on pulling two to three of the moulds from the shipment and do some test casts with them, to make sure the manufacturing from Lee is within spec. If I find one that's larger, I could make sure you get it. Of course, I can't promise you Lee will make one bigger for ya...

It's worth thinking about Beagling. Can get an extra thousandths or two with that technique. Just something to think on.

I double-checked my two S&W 629s, and the newer one (-4) runs right at .430" throats. The older one (-1) runs .431" (4 chambers)-432" (2 chambers) throats. I size everything to .431" and they shoots quite nicely for me in both pistols and my 1894 Marlin. (I have no idea what throat dia. is on the Marlin, but the barrel shoots .431" boolits just great, so I've never worried about checking it...)

[Ed K]

I have one 629, a -3 It runs right about 0.430" and I have several molds to suit it. Somewhat recently I picked up a 3" barrelled Lew Horton 624 in 44 Spec. While I have not slugged the throats, hole gages slip through with little-to-no friction @ 0.433" and these are known to measure a little under so that's why I say I'm in need of 0.433"+

I understand this is fairly common and was aware when I bought the piece. I just figured I'd get a custom mold at some point and be done with it. Your boolit looks very nice as I said and I appreciate your offer on one of the test molds (knowing they still might just cast 0.432"). I'll give it some thought.

[brionic]

I'm in for one. First timer!

Thx,
--
Brian

[crabo]

Is there any real difference between this boolit and the RCBS 250k? I am finding they seem to be quite similer. Is the 6 cavity the main advantage to buying this mold?

Thanks,

[bearcove]

I'd like one but it would be good get the payment part done before all my "extra" money finds a home. It has a very poor shelf life!

[MakeMineA10mm]

Is there any real difference between this boolit and the RCBS 250k? I am finding they seem to be quite similer. Is the 6 cavity the main advantage to buying this mold?

Thanks,

You've pretty much got it. Out of all the Keith designs that have been talked about over the last 12 months I've been here, plus all the great pics GLL posted, and then all of the sample boolits that GLL actually sent me, I had come to the conclusion that the RCBS 44-250-KT (Part #82044) was awfully dang close to an original Keith. It had the shape and dimensions down and it has a short-enough OAL and crimp to nose tip to fit well in 44 Spls. and short-cylindered 44s of many case lengths...

The two things I really changed were the crimp groove - to make it more like the original Ideal and H&G/Ballisti-Cast design, and the lube groove, which I kept the same as far as width, but deepened it a little to give it a little more lube to hold and to make sure the lube was deeper than the lands of the rifling were. Other than those two things, and the fact that it is a 6-cavity, slightly more affordable mould, it is pretty darn close to the RCBS boolit.

[Meatco1]

10mm: What is the count now? If you're striving for 25 for the group, are we close?

Thanks,

Richard

[dot6]

Put me down for one, please.

[Brother_Love]

I will take one of these too. Let me know when and where to send dollars.
Malcolm

[Highland Drifter]

I'll take one.
Thank you for all your work putting this one together.

Brian

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'd like one but it would be good get the payment part done before all my "extra" money finds a home. It has a very poor shelf life!

10mm: What is the count now? If you're striving for 25 for the group, are we close?


OK gang. Be patient. These things take a long time, just for the wait from Lee. I would hate to say we're closed, just because we have 25, and then 50 more guys clambor about not getting a chance to get in.

I also thoroughly understand your position bearcove. I've been there. (Get married, buy a house, and have kids, and you'll soon find there's no disposable income to dispose of... :roll:

We are at 24 right now, unless someone else posts while I'm typing this... What I'll do is this: I'll start sending out PMs to guys who want this, so they can send in their money now. Just understand, PLEASE, that I will be holding your cash for a couple more weeks at least before we send the order in. I want as many guys as possible to get in on this, so there's as few disappointed as possible. (There'll always be someone who didn't see it/didn't get in on it, so there's going to be disappointed ones, but I'd like to keep that number small... :) )

So, watch your PM box. I'll send you payment instructions. Send in the payment as soon or as late as you'd like. Just watch this thread so you know when the closing date is getting here...

[targetshootr]

I'm getting one. No need to hurry, keep it open for a month or two.

[Dave Berryhill]

I'm in for one.

[30hrrtt]

I'll take one too. First time grouper. Let me know where to send funds.

Funds now not a problem but I won't have time to shoot for months as I have seveal large projects going on for work.

Oh nine months

I might have time by then

[MakeMineA10mm]

OK, I've PMed everyone who said they were interested. I've also heard back from many of you. (If you didn't PM me back, that's OK. I don't really need to hear from you; some folks just like more communication/better contact, and I respect that.)

If there are more of you out there that are interested, COME ON IN!! :mrgreen: :Fire:

[.38 Special]

You've pretty much got it. Out of all the Keith designs that have been talked about over the last 12 months I've been here, plus all the great pics GLL posted, and then all of the sample boolits that GLL actually sent me, I had come to the conclusion that the RCBS 44-250-KT (Part #82044) was awfully dang close to an original Keith. It had the shape and dimensions down and it has a short-enough OAL and crimp to nose tip to fit well in 44 Spls. and short-cylindered 44s of many case lengths...

The two things I really changed were the crimp groove - to make it more like the original Ideal and H&G/Ballisti-Cast design, and the lube groove, which I kept the same as far as width, but deepened it a little to give it a little more lube to hold and to make sure the lube was deeper than the lands of the rifling were. Other than those two things, and the fact that it is a 6-cavity, slightly more affordable mould, it is pretty darn close to the RCBS boolit.

FWIW, both of my RCBS molds drop the bullets at .430" and change, as do at least half of the rest of my Keith molds. If the Lee drops them at .432"-.433" then that will be a big improvement, at least as far as I am concerned. So that -- along with the six banger deal -- is a big part of the attraction for me.

[crabo]

I will probably wait until the last possible moment and then get one.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I will probably wait until the last possible moment and then get one.

Wise Acre!! [smilie=l:





Just for your information, you're getting one whether you like it or not!! :takinWiz:

[94Doug]

I'm in.


Doug

[Nueces]

I will probably wait until the last possible moment and then get one.

Wonder if my sniper service would let me be the last one in? [smilie=l:

Mark

[hunter64]

Put me down for one. I live in Canada and if all possible I would like to pay with Paypal, I will gladly throw in a couple of bucks to offset the Paypal charge.

[Meatco1]

Well, it certainly appears we have the necessary 25 buyers already.

Richard

[EDK]

What is the highest number of moulds ordered on a group buy....inquiring minds want to know!

This thing is taking off like a jet! I'm waiting for payday, BUT I'm signed up already. Only gripe I got is the time it will take to get my mould. I ain't any more patient than I was 40 years ago.

Thanks again MMA

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[MakeMineA10mm]

What is the highest number of moulds ordered on a group buy....inquiring minds want to know!

This thing is taking off like a jet! I'm waiting for payday, BUT I'm signed up already. Only gripe I got is the time it will take to get my mould. I ain't any more patient than I was 40 years ago.

Thanks again MMA

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

:mrgreen: :drinks: EDK,
You and me both on the patience thing! Thanks for being understanding on this. (We've got no choice but to be patient with Lee, but for the Honcho part, I appreciate you agreeing with my idea to let it run for awhile.)

As far as the biggest group buy, I don't know. I know that my H&G#68 copy went to around 130 moulds. That's the biggest one I've seen in the year + I've been here. I bet there have been others that surpassed that though. Maybe one of the older old-timers could chime in on that...

[trickg]

I'm in - how do I hook it up?

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hi trickg (and others).

To get in on this, you merely have to post to this thread. I'll then send you payment info via a Private Message.

I've sent PMs to everyone who has posted as of trickg's post.





As far as this design goes, I've been re-reading SIXGUNS by Keith, and The Book of the 44 by John Taffin. Both indicate that basically, a Keith design has four elements: 1. SWC shape, 2. Three equal-width driving bands, 3. A square-cut generous lube groove, and 4. a generous / beveled crimp groove. Although never stated specifically, under element #1 and by Keith's criticisms of modifications of his design, it is clear that there is a definite proportional relationship between the length of the bearing surface and the length of the nose.

Other than the slightly wider base band, I think we've hit the mark in a big way with this design. (And, for the record, I'd be incredibly surprised if a .012" [13%] longer baseband is going to hurt this boolit. If anything, I believe it will make it better, especially for those who wish to use the slower-burning powders.)

Keith criticized round lube grooves and significant changes in weight/balance (shortening/lengthening the nose or otherwise making the overall design out of balance) that mould manufacturers did to his design over the years.

Part of his problem is probably that he never drew up a good blueprint/mechanical drawing of his boolit. He sketched a shape and added in the above details, and Mr. Pendergrass (if I'm remembering/spelling it correctly - the guy's name is in Sixguns) of Ideal made them happen.

[r6487]

First timer here on a group buy, put me down for one of these bad boys.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Put me down for one!

[swiss 96/11]

About time i drag out my Smith 29 for a workout,have a RCBS mould but casts to small at .429,Time to send it down the road,Iam in for one also.

[Bear4570]

Oh What the heck, it can keep my other 5 keith type 44 molds company.

I'm in for one.

[Wildcat]

Guess I'll join the bandwagon too. Makes sense to have a backup.

[376Steyr]

Check is on its way. Thanks for running this GB!

[MakeMineA10mm]

OK, I've received the first three checks, below are the ZIPs:

92509
24279
37388



Bear & Wildcat, thanks for jumping in, I'll send you payment info right now. Again, no hurry at this point. If you want me to hold your money to keep the spousal critter from taking your mould money, I'm happy to help... If money's tight right now and you want to wait, that's fine too. This buy will stay open until at least the first of the month.

Tell your friends!

[2hawk]

New to the site, hello all. Wandered in from the S-W forum.
I've been reloading Keith 250 gr. from Leadheads, and I like the round. Never cast anything, but I've been thinking I'd like to try, so- put me down for one. Looks like as good a place to start as any ;D

[jt1]

I'll take one.

Another noob from the S&W Forum.

John

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hi guys! Welcome to Cast Boolits! Glad you're here. Hope you look around. If you're new or haven't even started casting yet, there is ALL the information you'll need here at this site. I would caution you though, that just like many hobbies casting can get as involved as you want it to be. Most of us here are REALLY involved in it... [smilie=1: :mrgreen: Don't get too scared or confused about casting when reading some of the discussions here. We can get into some pretty esoteric stuff.

The way these group buys work is that I'll send you a private message (PM) here with payment info. You send me your checks and shipping info, and when I get that I post your zip code. After I close this group buy and get the checks in, I send off the drawing a big check to Lee, and then we wait for them to make the moulds... That is the hardest part. The wait has been as short as a few months, but lately, they've gotten swamped and the wait has been around 9 months... FYI on that. If that kind of wait is too much, there's no problem backing out. Just let me know in a PM back to me. Once I have sent off the check to Lee though, you're in with the rest of us for the long haul..... :drinks:

[Rich S]

Another S&W forum guy checking in.
Count me in for one, I'll keep an eye on my private messages for the whens and wheres of money sending.
also keep me in mind if you need volunteeers for the quality control check of a few molds, it would be my pleasure to get one that was all de oiled and made ready to cast with.
many thanks to all involved in this effort.
Regards,
Rich

[AKtinman]

I'm in for one of these.

Looks like a great boolit!

[Down South]

Count me in. I Can use one of these. Speaking of the S&W forum, that's where I came from too. I can't remember if I've ever been back (Just Kidding).

[jbc]

Well, I'm in for one - my first group buy. I am afraid this could be trouble: I wonder if that miracle stop smoking drug chantix will work to stop my current shooting and hunting addictions and my soon to be casting addiction???

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, I'm in for one - my first group buy. I am afraid this could be trouble: I wonder if that miracle stop smoking drug chantix will work to stop my current shooting and hunting addictions and my soon to be casting addiction???

jbc, I hate to tell you this, but it's NOT DURN LIKELY they'll ever come up with something to cure this disease!! :mrgreen: (Of course, the govt. and tree-huggers trying to outlaw lead will put a little dent in things and make us re-think things.)


OK gang, I've PMed everyone up to jbc here with payment instructions. We're at about 43 ordered right now, so that's pretty darn good!

Tell your friends! (It always pains me to get the PMs and postings from folks who wanted just this boolit and didn't know about the group buy... I've gotten 10 on the 9mm, and 20 on the H&G68, and a few on the 230gr Govt. RN... Wish I could afford to order 20 extra of these in each order and just keep them on-hand...)

[mallard1]

Count me in for one also. This is my first GB.

[KODB]

PM already sent
SW forum seems to be a good conduit of new members (myself included)
Bob

[MakeMineA10mm]

ATTENTION ALL: When I sent payment instructions, I forgot to add on one of the multi-user PMs to be sure to put your Screen Name on the note somewhere. This isn't insurmountable as a problem, because I can figure out a lot of them. But, if you've already mailed your check and didn't put your screen name on the note, just send me a PM with your ZIP code in the title, and I'll match them up.



I've received checks now from:

24279
37388
75023
76432
78664
83647
92509




KODB & mallard - I've sent you payment instructions. Thanks for joining in!! :drinks:

[denul]

Please send those mailing instructions and a current price

[mick27]

i'd like one also !! please send me your address and info..

thanks,
mick27
mick jones, 08560
mjsharps@yahoo.com

[KODB]

Thanks MMA- will send out check this week.

Bob

[Bigscot]

I have the RCBS 250K but I can't pass this one up either. Count me in for one.

[MakeMineA10mm]

OK, I've got everyone updated on where to send the money. We're doing well, and getting close to 50 orders. That's pretty good, considering Catshooter just ran this one about a year and a half ago (so lots of guys already have something similar from a group buy here).

As many of you who are repeat customers know, I don't like hanging on to others' money very long. We're creeping up on 50 orders, which is always a good quantity to be at to order. SO, I'm leaning towards closing this group buy. I want to give everyone far advanced notice for some guys wanted to actually send a check around the end of the month/beginning of October. Therefore, rather than closing this, I'm going to set an end-date.

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2008 is the CLOSING DATE for this group buy.
If you have casting buddies, gun club members, etc. that might be interested, let them know. If you're waiting on a certain time to send me a check, you know the date I'm aiming for. Anyone who has been lurking and pondering whether to take the plunge, think harder... :mrgreen:

[Meatco1]

I think is it a smart idea to set the ending date.

It gives everybody an advance notice as to when to get their $$ in.

Richard

[MakeMineA10mm]

New list of checks received. Please note, if I've put an asterisk by your ZIP, I need you to PM me to confirm you are who I think you are... [smilie=1: :mrgreen:

08043
10549
24279
37388 *
63010
72143
75023
76234
76432 *
78664
83647
92509

[mold maker]

PM sent, Ya talked me into one .
mold maker

[wickerbill]

* pm sent
Bill

[Down South]

I dropped the check in the mail yesterday. You should have it in a few days.

[hunter64]

Dropped the money order in the mail, you should have it next week.

[buckndee]

Just found some extra funds, need this mould for my fat 44s, money is in the mail.

[Romeoburbs]

I am in for one Keith 44 260gr. I really like the looks of the profile. Please PM me when you want the check.
Gene
48065

[WARD O]

Hi
I would like to get involved and order one of these 44 moulds. I'm a first timer here so please let me know what I need to do.

Thanks
Ward

[MakeMineA10mm]

UPDATED LIST! The checks have been dribbling in 1 to 2 a day, so I've been slow to update the list. Sorry. Here is the current list including the checks I received today:

08043
08560
10549
24279
27405
28040
28613
37388
43445
63010
63012
64093
71343
72143
74011
75023
76234
76432
78664
83647
84003
92509
94568
97213


Ward & others - I've sent everyone a private message about how to pay for this. Please be sure to do some reading around here at Cast Boolits. One thing I want new group buy participants to know for sure is that Lee takes about 9 months to make these at this point.

[MDF99]

Payment sent, thx!

[DAFzipper]

Do I really need another 44 Keith SWC? I cant resist! Payment going out on Monday. Now the way too long wait!!!!

[debass]

I'm in for one. Let me know where to send the funds.

[R Lewis]

Im in for one. Please let me know where to send funds.

[Steve]

Sent payment today from 49112 Steve.

Some folks think a mould can be used as a pair of pliers. I have had some thoughtless individuals use my moulds to pull nails, ect,. when I was not at home. Such practictices come under the the same classification as the cow-puncher who uses the front sight of his six gun to pull staples and then after leading his nag over the wire while he stands on it ,drives them in again with the butt of the gun. Such people use the top of heads mearly as a hat rack, possessing nothing but solid ivory above the ears. SIXGUNS by KEITH

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thanks guys. I've got everyone updated as far as how to pay. I've received payments from about half of the interested people so far - Thanks. I know we've got a little while before this closes and that many are waiting until around the first of the month. I'll probably send out a blanket PM to those who I've not received a check from around 10-04-08, just to confirm that you're in and that you know to send payment relatively soon thereafter, so we can get this order in to Lee, so the wait doesn't have to be any longer than necessary. :drinks: :mrgreen:

[Firebird]

Finally got the check in the mail today.

[luv44mag]

I sent a pm........ am I to late? I would love to get one of these. thanks

As per PM.....The check is in the mail..... postmark 10-4-08

and thanks again............................................. .........................

[MakeMineA10mm]

This is fair warning that this Group Buy is CLOSING. It will end on Monday. If you want in on this GB, get the check in the mail to me pronto. I've received about 35 payments so far, and have about 20 of you that I'm sending a PM to for a gentle, last-chance reminder. I really need to see everyone's check by Saturday, October 11, 2008, but if you contact me and tell me you're in on this for sure and have sent the money, I'll wait on it, but not too long.

Here's the updated list of people whom I've received their payment:

08043
08560
10549
14464
24279
27405
28040
28613
37388
43445
45327 *
48065
49112
55347
63010
63012
63139 *
64093
71343
72143
74011
75023
76234
76432
78664
80020
83647
84003
92509
94568
95501
97213
T6K 2K6

* If you ZIP has the asterisk next to it, I need you to PM me your real name and address, so I can match up your screen name here with your payment. You will probably also be getting the gentle reminder PM, because I can't eliminate you from the list of "interested but not yet paid." :coffee:

[jbc]

check sent from 16335

[Nueces]

Check for -two- moulds on the way.

Mark

[crabo]

I just bought 2 LBT molds, so I'm tapped out and not gonna make this one.

Thanks,

[94Doug]

Payment in the mail today.


Doug

[Mack Heath]

The check is going out today for one.

Mack

[Bear4570]

USPS money order went out yesterday..thanks.

Chuck

[MtGun44]

I'd like to get in on this one, too. Are you still going to notify us when
you need funds, or just send the check on to you now?

Bill

[Meatco1]

I hope this has closed by now. As it was originally supposed to close at the end of Sept.

Richard

[MakeMineA10mm]

This group buy is now closed.

The interest has definitely waned with only a couple people interested lately, and I probably could have closed it a week ago, but the delay has helped many people who wanted in on this to be able to send the money after the first of the month. I'm still waiting on a few people's checks, but I anticipate them soon.

I've gotten in quite a few checks in the last week, so check the ZIP list below, which is in numerical order, for your ZIP. If you don't see it, and you sent payment over 4 days ago, PM me:

Zip
T6K 2K6
08043
08560
10549
14464
14623
16335
16701
24279
27405
28040
28613
37388
43445
44099
45327
48065
49112
53210
54213
54773
55347
63010
63012
63139
64093
71343
72143
74011
75023
76234
76432
78620 - paid for 2 moulds
78664
80013
80020
83647
84003
92509
94568
95501
95926
97213

(Sorry for being late on the closure announcement and slow updating of the zip list. M-I-L had a sudden change of residence recently and I've been helping with moving, sorting, throwing-out, etc... The good news is, the new place has a large detached garage with workshop and excellent lighting, and I think I've found a new place to set up my casting set-up and store my lead.)

[FN in MT]

Mike,

Sent a PM, but my check for one mould went out yesterday.

FN in MT

[DAFzipper]

Has this order gone in?

[Down South]

This is the first time that I've been back here since we ordered. I take it that everything is going well.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Update - Yes, everything is going OK. Sent everything in the first week of November, so if 6 months still is the number, than we should be looking at end of April/beginning of May.

[Down South]

:drinks: I'll be looking forward to trying this one out.

[wickerbill]

makeminea10mm
Have you herd any news from Lee lately. The last mold I got from a group buy came in about 2 months early.

[MakeMineA10mm]

wickerbill,
There seems to be less and less of a way to predict who's on first. Catshooter recently had a GB come back after only 5 months, while others have been waiting for 10 or more. This one is now at around the 5-6 month mark. I'm guessing we have less time left to wait than we did when we ordered them...... :roll:

[wickerbill]

Cool!:)
Bill

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hi guys, just an FYI.....










































These are NOT in yet! :(

(Not to worry. I check for the UPS guy every day!)

[siamese4570]

Man that's cold. Been reading Sixguns by Keith and just itchin' to start casting these boolits. In between i've been checking this website to see if they have got here yet. Oh well, bribe the UPS guy if you have to!

Siamese4570

[hunter64]

Damit, I just about jumped out of my seat expecting to read that the GB was in. I will guess at Sept. 15 as the delivery date.

[Down South]

Bringing this one back to the top. It's getting close to time given Lee's overloaded schedule. Hopefully Lee will be sending this one out soon. I’m looking forward to testing it out.

[hunter64]

Funny, I was looking at this one today myself and it will be about 7 months at the end of may so we have another 2 months min. to go before we see it. Hopefully before school is back in, in the fall.

[GLL]

Down South:

I am afraid hunter64 is correct ! The last Group Buy I ran just came in. It took just shy of 10 months from the time I sent in the money, got confirmation paperwork from LEE signed, and moulds delivered to buyers !

This one will not be here until July/August ! :(

Jerry

[EDK]

Down South:

I am afraid hunter64 is correct ! .......This one will not be here until July/August ! :(

Jerry

The LEE Group Buy moulds looked good...designs I liked and not available anywhere else......UNTIL I got the GB mould from OLD WEST BULLET MOULDS and now seeing the delivery quotes from MI-HEC and SWEDE NELSON. I prefer iron moulds and now the brass one is a favorite also, but I can live with aluminum. I just can't tolerate waiting a year if there is a viable alternative.

I'll BUY a LEE off the shelf, but I doubt that I ORDER ONE IN A GROUP BUY again. I don't have that much time to wait/waste!

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[hunter64]

I'll BUY a LEE off the shelf, but I doubt that I ORDER ONE IN A GROUP BUY again. I don't have that much time to wait/waste!

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

Yup and I think that is the common consciences on the board right now, we have been screwed with to many times and never again. With the added benefit of not needing a Honcho anymore to get a GB rolling, just an idea and away we go.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Even I am looking for other options than Lee. We'll see what else we can develop. Problems like this are often the spark for new developments.


On a happier note, I did call Lee today and learned that these moulds should be in very soon. Probably a couple more weeks.

I was told they are working on orders from the last quarter of 2008 right now........

[mroliver77]

I wont give up on Lee but I hope they clean up their act. They have given me the opportunity to buy many molds I would have never been able to afford. Jay

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Yes they were/are cheap , but when I decide to buy a mold , I don't intend to wait a year to get it,
Mihec and Swede are in gear now , so that works for me , what I want when I want it, at a reasonable cost with the knowledge that you will get what you ordered. Just my Opinion.

[Dale53]

I see a lot of complaints about Lee - some are justified (out of spec moulds) but some are not. The delays are, no doubt, beyond their control. Don't forget, they were making custom moulds for us when NO ONE ELSE did. I have a couple of GB moulds that I am very happy with, from Lee.

I am solidly in MiHec's camp, today, and Swede is a big positive, but remember when Lee did us GOOD. Please don't forget this. The whole reloading industry has been overwhelmed with the absolutely unexpected "run" on everything regarding reloading and ammunition. No one is going to expand their operation, hire and train more people for a "flash in the pan". This rush will be over in a few months (primers are becoming more available as we "talk") and then things will get back to normal.

Just a thought or two - "Leave with the one you brought"...

Dale53

[DAFzipper]

can we canclel this order and jump in on MiHec's 503 copy he is doing?
It would be worth the extra $20 to me. His H&g 68 copy I have is superb. Came with top punch, sprue plate set screw and set screw for sprue cutter cam.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=53437

[MakeMineA10mm]

DAF,
No, I've read the posting in the never-ending 38-75gr WC thread about what Lee may be doing.

At this point, I'm not willing to cancel the order, because we're supposed to be very close to the production point, and it wouldn't make sense or be fair to the participants who have been waiting.

If you want to sell out your interest in this group buy by finding someone else who wants to take your place, and work out the money between the two of you and notify me of the change, that would be fine with me. I have had several people PM/e-mail me over the last 9 months asking if they could get in on it.

[swiss 96/11]

I will sell my place in line for this mould for $69.00,if someone wants to buy it.Please PM me if you want it.I then can have it shipped to you.Thanks swiss 96/11
Mould has been sold Thanks

[Meatco1]

Well, I'm tired of waiting for this one also!

If anyone want's to buy my order, $69.00 will do it for me also. Drop me a PM if interested

Richard

[siamese4570]

Hey MMA: Heard anything from Lee? It's been 6 weeks since you last checked. Give us hope.

Siamese4570

[Highland Drifter]

I'm going to hold out and wait for this one. I also got in on Miha's H&G 503. I'll bet Miha's gets here first.

Brian

[Patrick L]

OK, its official. I have bought Swiss 96/11's spot in line. Check is on the way sir, and I thank you!

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well guys, here's the response I got from Pat at Lee yesterday:

We are beginning to catch up to the flood of orders we have received in the last 6 months. Your 44 Keith mold is going to be in the next batch of custom molds made. I have the drawing on my desk, and will be converting it to a digital format so that it can be sent to the toolmaker. - Pat

Still doesn't say "when" but it will be coming, sooner rather than later, I feel it's safe to say. I bet in the next 4 to 6 weeks.

[wickerbill]

It's good that they are about to get to this order. I for one can wait. I have an old Lyman 429421 two holer and a new LBT 300 WFNGC to play with.
Bill

[Meatco1]

MMA10mm:

After almost a year of waiting, this is a quick note to let you know, that I have given up my interest in this mold. A PM has been sent, advising you that I have sold my interest in this mold to "Gunsmoke" (Cast Boolits handle). In my PM, I have included "Gunsmoke's" name & mailing address.

I will look forward to your acknowledgement of this note. Should you have any questions, please PM me.

Thanks,

Richard

[MakeMineA10mm]

No problem Richard. Sorry to all that it is taking so long. I have high hopes it will be here soon. All I can say is after waiting a year, it better be to spec... [smilie=1:

[EDK]

LEE was about the only show in town...and we evidently weren't very high on their priority list. With the way things went, Swede Nelson (NOE) and MI-HEC saw an opportunity to offer a quality product and develop a business that looks to be thriving in both cases. OLD WEST BULLET MOULDS did the moulds on the 250 grain 44wadcutter last fall also.

From where I sit, I'll buy a LEE off the shelf. The OLD WEST and NOE moulds I have are excellent...I'll order more of theirs. MI-HEC has a group buy somewhere in the future for 434640 that I'd like in several different formats. AND there's several more quality vendors looking for yankee dollars.

Boys and girls, we are out of "the bad old days!" Support whom you like and the other guy will have to clean up his act or lose money.

Uncle Ed's law: Voting with your wallet will get their attention quickly.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

PS Send a couple bucks for the site and the new server.

[luv44mag]

Yes, this wait has opened my eyes a bit as to the ways of the world.........

OK maybe not that far open.

[Rich S]

I'm just glad to know MMA10 is still on the job seeing it through.
thanks for your effort on this.
Regards,
Rich

[EDK]

MMA is doing all he can on this and I thank him for his efforts. All the guys who honcho a group buy, especially contending with the problems that LEE has had, deserve our thanks. I appreciate being able to get the exotic boolits from these moulds....the 44 wadcutters especially!

Thanks again buddy

:Fire::castmine::redneck:

[Patrick L]

I will personally attest to the absolute top-notch dedication of our honcho. I was in on the first H&G 68 GB from last fall. Lee absolutely SCREWED THE POOCH on that one, and MMA10MM took a lot of flak and abuse from people who should have known better.

He not only took the high road and refused to enter into the gutter fight, but he steadfastly got on Lee's @ss to get things fixed, fixed right, and fixed quick.

If he ran a GB on ice cubes in Alaska in wintertime, I'g get in no questions asked.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'm just glad to know MMA10 is still on the job seeing it through.
thanks for your effort on this.
Regards,
Rich

MMA is doing all he can on this and I thank him for his efforts. All the guys who honcho a group buy, especially contending with the problems that LEE has had, deserve our thanks. I appreciate being able to get the exotic boolits from these moulds....the 44 wadcutters especially!

Thanks again buddy

:Fire::castmine::redneck:

I will personally attest to the absolute top-notch dedication of our honcho. I was in on the first H&G 68 GB from last fall. Lee absolutely SCREWED THE POOCH on that one, and MMA10MM took a lot of flak and abuse from people who should have known better.

He not only took the high road and refused to enter into the gutter fight, but he steadfastly got on Lee's @ss to get things fixed, fixed right, and fixed quick.

If he ran a GB on ice cubes in Alaska in wintertime, I'g get in no questions asked.

Wow. That's some votes of confidence. Some of the nicest things anyone has ever said about me on the internet! Thanks guys!

The ice cube group buy will have to wait until Lee gets someone to start sawing up the glaciers into little bitty bricks... ;-) With the current wait time, if you order the ice this Winter, we'll get them next Winter... [smilie=1:

I'm checking the UPS deliveries every day, now, as the info I got from Lee said they should be getting made up right about now... I'm as anxious as can be to cast some of these! I've been casting three other 44-cal boolits, and as much as I like THOSE designs, THIS is the one I REALLY want to be casting. :coffeecom

As soon as they arrive I'll cast some samples, take measurements, and if all is well, start packaging. I'll announce the steps I'm taking as they happen.

[MakeMineA10mm]

BTW, just for clarity, I felt luv44mag's post was not about me, but rather about Lee's pushing us custom-order groups to the back of the line, when the orders for regular items poured in...

[Patrick L]

Hey MMA10MM,

If, when you do the test casts, you find one of the molds that casts on the fat side, could you earmark that one for me? (unless of course someone else has already asked.)

I need as fat a boolit as possible for my .44 Spl. If they are .433 or larger I'll be in heaven. Otherwise I've got my beagling tape all ready.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I plan on just running a couple of moulds to test. My experience so far has been that there is very little difference in the moulds in a run of 60 or less (such as this one). If, with that small of a sample, I run across a fat one, it's yours!

[denul]

MMA10MM,

I felt that I saw a post-somewhere from you looking to borrow a Lyman 429215 mold, and with all the changes in the website I can't find the post, if it ever existed. Ignore this if I am wrong, but I have a 4 cavity in modest condition I would be happy to loan you if you wanted.
I tried to click on your e-mail address, but something wouldn't let it go through.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thanks a bunch denul! I really just need a small handful of boolits. If you can cast up 8-10 nice ones (well-filled out) that I can take measurements from, I'd appreciate it!

I'm also looking for the RCBS 44-200-CM, if you or someone else here has that one.


(Yes, I'm thinking on designing another 44-caliber boolit... It's the only caliber I just can't quit thinking on... The boolits are just the right size for casting, not too big, nor too small. :mrgreen: )

[denul]

Cant cast before the weekend, but will try early next week; dont have any loose ones or would send them

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'll send you a PM with my mailing address.

[lathesmith]

MMA10 and denul, I don't want to butt in on your 429215 deal, but I thought I would mention that I have a pile of 429215's hanging out in the garage. IIRC, mine measure in at a nice .432 or so, they are just right for my uses. denul, if you get sidetracked and aren't able to cast any up, just let me know and I would be glad to send MMA10 a handful of these. Sounds like MMA10 is thinking of another project, I try and support these Honcho guys all I can, it can be a tough job, and is just a small way I can say "thanks".
Carry On,
lathesmith

[wickerbill]

MMA10MM, are you wanting to try this bullet to see if you want in on this GB.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=60035
I'm already in on this one. I don't have a mold for this boolit, but have shot comercial boolits of this configuration. They shoot good in every 44 I have.
Bill

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thanks Lathesmith and Bill!

Bill, no, I wasn't wanting to try it to get in on that group buy. Actually just want to play with some for measurement's sake, because I have some change ideas to the boolit. If / When I get it all down on paper, I'll make an interest thread and explain it.

Lathesmith,
Are your 215s from an original Lyman mould? I guess I should've asked denul that too, but he was volunteering and beggars can't be choosers! :-)

[lathesmith]

MMA10,
My 429215's are cast from a 2-4 year-old Lyman manufactured 4-cavity mold; I'll let you decide if that is what you are after.
lathesmith

[MakeMineA10mm]

As long as it's Lyman. I know there's variations over the years, but I bet it would be pretty hard to tell a 3 year old one from a 15 year old one, or even older.

denul, if you want to still send me some, I'd be pleased to have them to compare to lathesmiths, too. That would give me some basis for knowing what boundaries for variations I have to work within.

If you each sent 5-10 that'd be plenty!

Thanks!

[luv44mag]

Quote from MakeMineA10mm...
"BTW, just for clarity, I felt luv44mag's post was not about me, but rather about Lee's pushing us custom-order groups to the back of the line, when the orders for regular items poured in..."
__________________

Correct....... this was against Lee....

and for the record I think "MakeMineA10mm" is doing a great job!

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thanks buddy! We just gotta hang on together until Lee gets 'em made. I'm so anxious to shoot some of these, it's ridiculous!! Can't even cast any without moulds... [smilie=b:

[targetshootr]

Mine came today and it looks super. Can't wait to try it out. I'd like to see one done the same way in 45 and about 310 gr like the thread in GBs.

[targetshootr]

...or maybe not. It was shipped from Slovenia.

[jbc]

Way to get our hopes up!!!:groner:

[targetshootr]

I lost track of these group buys again so this one will be an extra for me. Give a yell if anyone missed out and would like to buy it.

[JesterGrin_1]

I lost track of these group buys again so this one will be an extra for me. Give a yell if anyone missed out and would like to buy it.

Targetshootr I will take it off of your hands. :)

[MakeMineA10mm]

...or maybe not. It was shipped from Slovenia.

Way to get our hopes up!!!:groner:
Yeah, that's just cruel and not right, targetshooter! :?


Targetshootr I will take it off of your hands. :)

Make sure you let me know the details on the trade-off. When you've got it worked out amongst yourselves, get me the address I'm to ship it to, and approval from targetshooter that he's happy (Jester's check cleared... :mrgreen: )

[hunter64]

Looks like my prediction of a Sept. 15 date is going to be close, and man they better be to spec, the last three GB's I have been in have all failed the first time. Of course like most of the other members waiting for this GB to come in, it will be my last from Lee. No sense waiting for a year and being out of spec when you can have it in two months and be perfect for slightly more money.

[EDK]

...or maybe not. It was shipped from Slovenia.

AND the quality is super...AND it casts some really nice boolits...AND they shoot as good as they look! AND they feed in my unaltered MARLIN Cowboy rifle with a little adjusting of over all length.

You want to guess whose moulds I'm going to buy in the future?

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[JesterGrin_1]

No I think this mold is from Lee. A 6 Banger

[MakeMineA10mm]

Looks like my prediction of a Sept. 15 date is going to be close, and man they better be to spec, the last three GB's I have been in have all failed the first time. Of course like most of the other members waiting for this GB to come in, it will be my last from Lee. No sense waiting for a year and being out of spec when you can have it in two months and be perfect for slightly more money.

THAT RIGHT THERE SAYS A LOT!!!


Now that the newer makers have proven their capabilities, all of my future group buys will be with one of them, unless & until Lee gets back to taking care of us more promptly and properly.

[Patrick L]

I'll bet I get tarred and feathered for this, but here goes...

While I agree that competition makes for a better marketplace, lets not be too harsh with LEE. Let's face it, we have swamped them with custom orders. We're like kids in a candy shop here, we just can't seem to get enough and we keep dreaming up new "gotta haves." Remember that LEE is first and foremost trying to be a player in the mainstream retail world, and in case you haven't noticed that world has sort of exploded these last few years.

Speaking from my experience, they have made right their mistakes, like the H&G 68 from last fall. My five other GB LEEs were all great, as is the corrected H&G 68.

Like I said I think its great that NOE, Mountain, and Mihec are now in this game, but let's not forget the thousands of GBs we got from LEE when they were the only ones willing to even talk to us.

In other words, I prefer not to burn bridges.

[Dale53]

Aha! The voice of reason...

Just so there is no confusion - I concur!

Dale53

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, I'm certainly not mad at Lee, but > 1 year wait is far too much no matter what business model you run under, IMO. The mistakes I can live with, as long as you stand behind your product and fix them, as Lee has done,

It's the 12 mos out on orders that is just too much for me to bear.


I must say, I'm disappointed that NOE can't get 6 (or more) cavities into their mould blocks... That's one area where Lee is still awinning, in my mind.

But the higher quality/tolerances for the minimally-additional money makes NOE VERY attractive to me (enough to forego one hole in the mould blocks... ;) )

[jbc]

are they here yet? are they here yet? are they here yet? are they here yet? are they here yet? are they here yet? are they here yet? are they here yet?

:bigsmyl2:
sorry I couldn't resist I am getting carpal tunnel from casting two at a time with my rcbs 44-250-k

[MakeMineA10mm]

Cant cast before the weekend, but will try early next week; dont have any loose ones or would send them

denul,
They arrived today in the mail, safe and sound. Thanks a BUNCH for sending those.

It's funny how those have a longer OAL than you think they should for as light as they are, isn't it... I'm betting that has something to do with their reputation.




jbc,
Nope - and I'm bugging the UPS guy daily! :mrgreen:

[JesterGrin_1]

MakeMineA10mm Payment was sent to targetshootr for this mold. He should have it today or the next. :). I also sent you a pm with where to ship said mold. :).

I would also like to thank targetshootr for letting his exta mold go. I sure hope it works out well in my .44 Mag with either H-110 or W-296 as it would save me some trouble to not have to use a Gas Check lol. :)

[targetshootr]

MakeMineA10mm Payment was sent to targetshootr for this mold. He should have it today or the next. :). I also sent you a pm with where to ship said mold. :).

I would also like to thank targetshootr for letting his exta mold go. I sure hope it works out well in my .44 Mag with either H-110 or W-296 as it would save me some trouble to not have to use a Gas Check lol. :)

Glad to help. There's a good article in this months Handloader about 44 mag loads and Elmer's 600 yard shots on a mule deer.

[WARD O]

I read that article too, it was interesting to say the least. A number of years ago a friend and I had the big bore range all to our selves and sat down at the 600 yard firing point and picked out a prominent white basket ball size rock in the hill behind the targets. We proceeded to shoot up a bunch of 44 mag ammo out of my 6" M629. Shooting with knees drawn up to support the gun, we were frighteningly close to that rock with most of the shots once the proper sight picture was determined.

Must be nice for Brian Pearce to have three different mid 50's pre29s with 6.5" to play with - sorta sounds like he might have a couple more in the closet as well...... No matter, I hope he keeps the articles coming as he is one of few I really enjoy these days.

Ward

[targetshootr]

I'd like to toss my hat in the ring for an extry, if there is one. I remembered why I got in on this one to begin with.

[Down South]

Targetshootr, I guess that I could let you take mine. I’m on Mihec’s H&G 503 GB too plus I have a Lyman 429421 so I already have enough Keith design boolit moulds for the .44. PM me and we can work out the details. The price will be what we paid for it. I’m using a lot of 429244’s right now plus the 44-444 GB is working great for me too.

[targetshootr]

Targetshootr, I guess that I could let you take mine. I’m on Mihec’s H&G 503 GB too plus I have a Lyman 429421 so I already have enough Keith design boolit moulds for the .44. PM me and we can work out the details. The price will be what we paid for it. I’m using a lot of 429244’s right now plus the 44-444 GB is working great for me too.

Thanks kindly. PM on the way.

[targetshootr]

I read that article too, it was interesting to say the least. A number of years ago a friend and I had the big bore range all to our selves and sat down at the 600 yard firing point and picked out a prominent white basket ball size rock in the hill behind the targets. We proceeded to shoot up a bunch of 44 mag ammo out of my 6" M629. Shooting with knees drawn up to support the gun, we were frighteningly close to that rock with most of the shots once the proper sight picture was determined.

Must be nice for Brian Pearce to have three different mid 50's pre29s with 6.5" to play with - sorta sounds like he might have a couple more in the closet as well...... No matter, I hope he keeps the articles coming as he is one of few I really enjoy these days.

Ward

This may bring tears but what the hey. About eight years ago, when I was mostly into Colts, a local hardware store had a 6 1/2" 44 mag in their case and it sat there for several weeks. So one day I figured what the heck, it was priced right. On the first trip to the range a guy came over with his jaw open and yep, it turns out it was a nice all original five screw I paid $550 for. Sold it last year for considerably more.

[targetshootr]

I read that article too, it was interesting to say the least. A number of years ago a friend and I had the big bore range all to our selves and sat down at the 600 yard firing point and picked out a prominent white basket ball size rock in the hill behind the targets. We proceeded to shoot up a bunch of 44 mag ammo out of my 6" M629. Shooting with knees drawn up to support the gun, we were frighteningly close to that rock with most of the shots once the proper sight picture was determined.
Ward

What I don't understand is how Elmer avoided the percussion from his buddies rifle by laying on the ground. And wow those original 44 mag factory loads were blistering.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Now, dang it fellas, you're supposed to write the word "SPOILER" in your posts before you give away whats in the new Handloader each month!

:bigsmyl2:


BTW, targetshooter could you PM me what the particular reason was why you got in on this one and have decided to get "back" into it? (Inquiring minds...)


.

[Down South]

Targetshootr & MMA10MM, Targetshootr will be getting the mould that I had ordered. You two guys take care of swapping the shipping address.

Thanks, Sam

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, for the past three days, it has been paining me greatly to hold out the secret that I received four big boxes from LEE. [smilie=w:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1299

I waited because I wanted to get a chance to cast some up, take measurements and make sure they meet specifications. I think you guys are going to be quite pleased!!

I cast up two batches today - the first from the WW+1.5-2.0% tin that was in my pot and is my usual alloy; the second from some good old 16 parts pure lead to 1 part tin (ELMER's alloy).

Here are the results of my measurements. (These are taken with a set of calipers on a small sample of boolits - two 16:1 and three WW+2. I took all measurements in three to five places, which is why there is a range in several measurements. If there is no range, they did not vary more than .001".)

WW+2 boolit:
OAL: .774"-.778"
DIA: .434"-.435"
Bearing surface: .448"-.451"
Bottom drive band thickness: .113"
Middle drive band thickness: .104"-.107"
Forward drive band thickness: .099"-.102"
Length out of case (from front of crimp goove to meplat): .433"
Weight: 267grs

16:1 lead-to-tin boolit:
OAL: .776"
DIA: .434"-.435"
Bearing surface: .449"
Bottom drive band thickness: .112"
Middle drive band thickness: .109"
Forward drive band thickness: .103"
Weight: 261grs

Here is a comparison pic of the Group Buy boolits with several other Keith/Keith-Types (defined below):
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1298

# 1 = Old Ideal #429421 (no vent lines, cherry #931, single-cavity mould)
# 2 = Ballisti-Cast #1103 (Old H&G #503)
# 3 = RCBS 44-250-KT (RCBS part # 82044)
# 4 = MMA Keith Group Buy (cast from 16:1 lead to tin)
# 5 = MMA Keith Group Buy (case from WW+2% tin)

I would just like to toot my own horn a little by pointing out that the crimp groove is closest to the original Ideal mould. Also note that the drive bands turned out a little thicker than I specified, but I can live with that... Thicker is better there. The only thing I'd do differently if I re-do this design is making the nose slightly shorter - maybe .010-.015". This would make the meplat marginally wider, reduce the weight a tad, and allow less strain over whether the boolits will stick out the ends of the short-cylinder-length revolvers...

Basically, I'm OVERJOYED with the quality of these moulds and how well Lee hit the mark. Those guys who were hoping for a slightly "fat" boolit should be well-pleased too!

My wife and I are wrapping them tonight and tomorrow, and I hope to hit the post office Monday and/or Tuesday, so if all goes well, you guys should be casting with these next weekend! :mrgreen:

[Patrick L]

You said
DIA: .434"-.435"


YEEEEHAH!!!! My big throated .44 Spl and I love you!!!

[MakeMineA10mm]

schucks...

http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/hearts.gif

I hope they're not too big for some of the fellows with narrow-throated guns, but they can be sized down, still be .001" to .002" big and still work great...

Overall, this is me:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/banana.gif

[GLL]

:) :)

I really look forward to playing with this one !

Thank you for all of your work !

Jerry

[JesterGrin_1]

I can hardly WAIT:)

They look GREAT MMA10

[MakeMineA10mm]

Jerry,
Yours were the first ones I boxed up and addressed for mailing. (It's mainly symbolic, because 50 of the 52 moulds are going at the same time to the post office... The two hold-outs are guys overseas who I must fill out a customs form on and see a counter-person.)

Everyone who gets one of these owes a debt to Jerry. He provided me guidance as well as samples of bullets cast from several different moulds (including all of the non-group buy boolits in the comparison picture above). His awesome photography was also inspirational.

I am indebted to you Jerry, and you are one honorable member of this board.

[MakeMineA10mm]

BTW, I got 1/3 of them packaged up tonight. Just ran out of steam, and was working alone as my wife got pulled away for another project.

I'm hoping we'll get them finished off tomorrow, as I can put these in the night-drop at my post office with the automated teller, and that will save me from messing with them during the work week. BUT, we're spending some time with our daughter's grandparents (OK, my parents...) tomorrow after church and the grass needs mowed.

But, I promise you, this is a very high priority to get these 1yr old orders out to you guys. You've waited long enough!

[hunter64]

I was out by 4 days of my projected prediction, but about a week early of my "In my hands" prediction, lol. That is great news, a little bit fat but they can always be sized down with no difficulty. Always easier to size down than to size up. I have 2 44 Magnums that love .431 and 3 that love .430 and one that shoots all over hells half acre unless the bullet is sized to .429. The .44 special people should love this bullet as cast.

This mold will be the final swan song between myself and Mr. Lee, life is to short to wait for 9 extra months when all I have to do is pay another 30 bucks and I can have it right the first time and in my hands in under 3 months. Heck , I can't take the family to McDonald's for under 30 bucks, skip one trip to McDonald's and the difference has paid for itself. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it when you put it into that context. Some will disagree with me and that is fine, we will just agree to disagree. I will be at the range shooting and you can wait another year for a GB mold to arrive.

[94Doug]

Well, I'm excited.

Doug

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, the first 20 moulds were shipped this morning. (The post office is really quiet and easy to ship from at 0700 on Sunday morning...) They went into the APL (drop box with automated postal kiosk) and will ship out tomorrow sometime. Some of the responses on the APL said you guys should get them in two days, and some said three days (looked like it depending on how far away from Illinois you were as to how long it would take).

Now for the bad news. I ran out of Delivery Confirmation stickers, and naturally, either the postal clerks didn't re-stock the public area of the lobby, or someone else took all of them... So, I'm off to a couple other post offices in the area to hopefully find more so I can finish up. The rest are wrapped, just not addressed yet. As soon as I get DC slips, they'll be able to go out. If all else fails, I'll pick up a stack tomorrow afternoon when I ship out the international orders, and address them tomorrow night. With 2-3 day delivery time, that should still get them to all of you before next weekend (except the international shipments, which always take longer).

Wish me luck on finding DC slips at some of the smaller Post Offices around here.

[Down South]

I'm glad that it worked out great. I hope that Targetshootr is happy with his mould. I would have been glad to get it, but like I said I have plenty this style mould that I can work with.

[MakeMineA10mm]

OK guys, they're all in the mail (including international orders)!

Most of you (accept on the far coasts or the two overseas orders) should see these on Wednesday or Thursday. On the far coasts, certainly no later than Friday.

This was the fastest group buy I've gotten in the mail. Took all of two days, plus the trip to the Post Office today for the two international packages.

Happy casting!

:cbpour:

(Now that I've fulfilled my Honcho duty to you guys, I have some Keith boolits to lube-size and load!!! :grin: )

[mick27]

i got mine today, looks great !! can't wait to try it out..
thanks for all you've done..

mick27 (08560)

[Bear4570]

THANKS MM10, got mine today and will try er out this weekend. Appreciate all you thought and effort for this buy.

Chuck

[mallard1]

MM10

Received mine today. THANKS for all the help.
I will try out and see how it works on the deer this fall.

[Rich S]

Thanks MMA10,
Mine arrived today, looks great.
Regards,
Rich

[Clyde]

64093 - Received mine today and it looks fine.

Thanks for Honchoing this buy.

[94Doug]

Mine came today too. Well yesterday, I mean.

Doug

[big dale]

My friendly fly-fishing postman delivered the new mold on Wed. afternoon. It looks beautiful! Looks like my largest sizing die for my old Lyman sizer is marked 430....I may need to get a slightly larger sizing die. This is the first group buy I entered and the third mold that has arrived. Thanks to all for their hard work and long wait, cause it looks like it was worth it.

Big Dale

[WARD O]

It was waiting in the mail box when I got home last night. It looks great and I am looking forward to trying it out! This is the first group buy I've joined and it is also the first time I've ventured beyond a two cavity mould. New ground for me.

Thanks a lot for taking your time to do this job!

Ward

[MtGun44]

Got mine yesterday.

Looks good.

Thanks very much.

Bill

[wickerbill]

Got it today. Looks good to me. Thanks for all your work and time MMA10MM.
Bill

[MakeMineA10mm]

All you guys who slay a deer with one of these this fall, I like deer summer sausage with just a touch of pork added, and no spicy stuff, please... [smilie=l:

[fatnhappy]

Mine arrived today, thanks very much. Not to clutter the thread, but this was the last Lee group buy for me.

[johnch]

Mine arived today (43445)

John

[targetshootr]

Mine looks good too. Thanks MM.

[luv44mag]

I have mine now....95926

It looks great. Thanks a bunch!!!

[2hawk]

Received yesterday, looks like a good'un! Just lackin a little lead, is all ;D

[EDK]

Mould arrived Wedsday afternoon as I headed for work (4-to-12.) Saturday at the earliest to fire it up.

Thanks again for all your trouble honchoing this.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Highland Drifter]

MMA10,
Mine showed up in the mail Wed. (9/16). The mold looks great. Thank you for all your hard work.

Brian

[Mack Heath]

44099 arrived yesterday. The cavities look gorgeous. Thanks for all the effort.

[Patrick L]

Nothing for me yet:cry:

And its PERFECT casting weather this weekend!

[debass]

Mine arrived a couple days ago. I cleaned it then heated it up on a hot plate. It cast beautiful bullets right from the first cast. They average about 261.8 grains with WW+2% and measure about .433. Just right.

[gunsbrad]

Mine showed up and I am tickled pink. I had about given up hope of seeing it this year. Thanks MMA 10mm

Brad Hurt:drinks:

[GLL]

Both of mine arrived ! :)

VERY NICE !

Thank you for all of the work.

Jerry

[Patrick L]

I forgot you were shipping USPS!!!! When I got no mold yesterday I thought I was screwed till Monday.

I had a nice suprise today when I got home from, of all places, the range!

Looks great, maybe I'll cast some tonight. Thank you MMA10MM, and thank you Swiss 96/11!

[MakeMineA10mm]

I think that's everybody except the overseas orders (which always take extra-long)... You had me worried there a minute Patrick, as I couldn't believe they'd take 6 days, but I guess they did... So much for 2-3 day service with Priority Mail, eh?

Hope everyone enjoys these as much as I am. I shot the first four groups with mine this morning, and I'm quite pleased. My Marlin 94 feeds them fine and I got a 1" group at 50 yards with them. Pistols weren't so good, but I tried a different bench-shooting technique, and I think that hurt me. I'll try again with the next batch I load up and go back to the old way I shot groups. :smile:

[Mohillbilly]

Mine came a few days ago, I must say this mould is one of the nicest that I have gotten from Lee. Thanks Mike 63010

[hunter64]

MakeMineA10mm: What was your technique for shooting the .44 Mag pistols and how was it different?

[Norseman]

I got a notice from the Post office that it was ready for pick up on friday, but I wasn't able to get it until today. Looking forward to try it out this evening.

Regards from Norway

[Tom Myers]

My mold arrived last week and I am just now getting around to checking it out.

On examination, I must say that of the 17 Lee six cavity molds that I have, this one appears to be the best in workmanship. With the mold closed, the parting line between the blocks is invisible on the top of the mold. I am really amazed at the apparent quality of the mold.

I spilled my last bottle of Bullshop's Sprue Plate Lube so I am not even going to attempt casting with the mold until I can get more and avoid any chance of galling the top of the blocks.

Thanks again MMA10mm your patience and diplomacy with this long endeavor is sincerely appreciated.

[denul]

PM sent to MMA10mm

[jt1]

Mine has arrived. Got to get it cleaned up and try it out.

Thanks to MMA for putting the GB together.

John

[DAFzipper]

Best looking Lee mold yet! There is still hope. Cleaned mold and cast a few. Weigh 263 grains with my WW alloy. Diameter is .4325 to .433. Boolits dropped from mold easily. The only thing I did was lightly smoke the mold. Thanks for putting up with me MMA. Great looking boolit!

[MakeMineA10mm]

I got a notice from the Post office that it was ready for pick up on friday, but I wasn't able to get it until today. Looking forward to try it out this evening.

Regards from Norway
Now that is AWESOME news. Got there faster than I could have hoped for! Happy casting up there in Norway, brother.


My mold arrived last week and I am just now getting around to checking it out.

On examination, I must say that of the 17 Lee six cavity molds that I have, this one appears to be the best in workmanship. With the mold closed, the parting line between the blocks is invisible on the top of the mold. I am really amazed at the apparent quality of the mold.

I spilled my last bottle of Bullshop's Sprue Plate Lube so I am not even going to attempt casting with the mold until I can get more and avoid any chance of galling the top of the blocks.

Thanks again MMA10mm your patience and diplomacy with this long endeavor is sincerely appreciated.
Tom, thank YOU for all of your help. Couldn't have done it without ya! Honchoin' isn't hard, but it isn't easy, either! Communication, patience, and diplomacy is key.


Best looking Lee mold yet! There is still hope. Cleaned mold and cast a few. Weigh 263 grains with my WW alloy. Diameter is .4325 to .433. Boolits dropped from mold easily. The only thing I did was lightly smoke the mold. Thanks for putting up with me MMA. Great looking boolit!
Heck, you guys are EASY to put up with! Just treating you like I know I'd like to be treated...

[MakeMineA10mm]

MakeMineA10mm: What was your technique for shooting the .44 Mag pistols and how was it different?

Well, usually I shoot from a sandbag rest with the gun snuggled into the sandbag, my elbows on the table, and my hands up in the air. Kind of a cross between standing (like a handgun was meant to be shot) and benchrest.

This time, I tried to do it like I read about another "professional" shooter who bench-tests handguns. Still used the sandbag, but tried to use my strong-hand arm more like a rifle stock - lined it up straight behind the pistol, etc.

I shoot pistols standing 95% of the time, and neither Weaver nor isocyles puts the hand in a straight line behind the pistol. (Traditional Bullseys does, however.) Anyway, I just think the new technique was incompatible with my shooting. I'll go back to my regular style next range trip, for sure!

Got a hundred loaded up now, and working on re-loading all of my other cases with these boolits too... Should have a good 300 or so by the end of the weekend. :mrgreen: