Help, I give up. I am asking for help

[tbobbo]

I have been lurking here for a couple years, reading, studying, and learning. I joined awhile ago and have kept reading. I am stumped right now. I am trying to cast 9mm. I have started competition shooting and if I am too continue I need to cast. I sell tires for a living so for me lead is free. I have a few hundred lbs saved up. I have tried Lee 6 hole molds.....with a little success. Then they seem to get sprung. I figured I got them too hot. So Midway had Lyman steel molds on sale and I picked up a 4 hole 147 grain at .357. I carry 147 grain 9mm so I want to mimick my carry round for competition. The Lyman mold only gave me about 90 usable boolits out of around 200. I am getting some trash that sticks to the mold and will not come off. Looking here I see to heat it up and use bees wax to remove it with wood. I have gotten some of it off......but not enough to get the mold to close all the way. I was casting with my melt at about 750, and with a hot plate I tried to keep my mold at 400, but according to my temp gun it said I was more like 300. Reading here I know the temp gun isn't the most accurate......but it's all I have. I am using the Lyman digital thermometer for the melt temp. Again, I know it's not the best.....but better than nothing I would assume. I found I had my Lee drip o matic turned up way high in the past....no wonder I wrecked the aluminum molds.
How agressive can I get cleaning my steel mold? I have not used any brushes on it. Can I use a brass brush? I like this boolit design, so I don't want to wreck this mold. My lead is a mixture of clip on and stick on wheel weight. I am fluxing with sawdust, then with bees wax. Then I put more sawdust on top to keep on top while casting. I am sorry for the long post.....just trying to give the experts all the info so I can get the right answers.
So I am heating up my mold and hitting the dirty spots with a propane torch......and then melting bees wax on the stuck on lead/tin/whatever the stuck on stuff is, and scraping with wood sticks to try and remove the gunk. When not in use the mold is covered in kroil for a couple days for rust protection.

[country gent]

I use a tooth brush for general cleaning with soap water. A brass of phospher bronze brush should be okay if used carefully. use it with the grooves and vent lines to avoid rounding corners off. Bamboo skewers from the grocery store work well also.
In my casting tool kit is a set of allen wrenches, a couple screw drivers. A couple of the small firearms maintenance brushes nylon and bronze. a piece of burlap. a piece of flannel. an awl or ice pick. Bamboo skewers and some wood pop cycle sticks with one end cut square and flat.
The kroil will loosen some of the crud. Some of the commercial release agents are pain to remove and may require a solvent such as mineral spirts turpentine acetone or a non chlorinated spray cleaner. Hoppes number 9 or shooters choice bore cleaner both will remove lead with time and applications. The heat and scrape or brush works also but may just spread it around also. Working in a pan of solvent with the brush will wash the crud off.
Work slow and carefully think before jumping in here.

[nvbirdman]

You didn't mention if you cleaned the molds. Also, I don't know if you can get a Lee pot hot enough to damage a mold. (I could be wrong on that one.)

[tazman]

On the Lee molds. Is the gap in the middle of the blocks or at one end?
If at one end, the locating pins may have moved in the holes. This is not uncommon. They can be adjusted back into position and staked in place. The molds may not be ruined.

[wistlepig1]

Try some spray brake cleaner on the gunk. Then us a tooth brush {your wife's} See if that remove the gunk. If that works repeat til clean. Let use know. One thing at a time.

[Tom_in_AZ]

Degrease molds thoroughly, smoke them.

Sounds like you need to flux your lead to remove impurities. If they aren’t filling out right, your mold is too cold or not enough antimony/tin. Easily fixed by adding some Linotype.

If it takes longer than about 4-5 seconds for lead to frost over the lead and or mold are too hot.

Not of these are huge problems, but can be frustrating.

Aluminum molds are more temp sensitive due to aluminum transferring heat so quickly.

YouTube is a great source for how to vids!


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[HangFireW8]

I'm wondering if the sawdust on top is getting into your molds. You don't need sawdust unless you're using crazy high temps, and/or dissolving in Antimony.

Another possibility is you've got some zinc wheel weights in your mix.

Some pictures of the crud and the good and bad boolits would help.

If you really want to win competitions, it's unlikely the high recoil of 147's is going to let you be competitive.

[tbobbo]

I did clean the Lyman steel mold before using. Dawn, then brake cleaner. The Lee's......I forget, and they are gone. I only have Lyman steel molds now.

[tbobbo]

The Lee molds are gone. I only have steel molds right now.

[tbobbo]

Degrease molds thoroughly, smoke them.

Sounds like you need to flux your lead to remove impurities. If they aren’t filling out right, your mold is too cold or not enough antimony/tin. Easily fixed by adding some Linotype.

If it takes longer than about 4-5 seconds for lead to frost over the lead and or mold are too hot.

Not of these are huge problems, but can be frustrating.

Aluminum molds are more temp sensitive due to aluminum transferring heat so quickly.

YouTube is a great source for how to vids!


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I am fluxing using sawdust, then a little bees wax. The bees wax really seems to make things flow well. I smoke the mold with matches. I forgot to say that.

[tbobbo]

I know for certain no zinc is in my melt. I know what wheel weights are zinc and what are not in an instant. I sell wheel weights......I have zero problems knowing what to grab and what to leave. I will try leaving the sawdust out. Once I get my mold clean enough to try casting again.

[Bazoo]

You can safely use a bronze brush to scrub a steel mold if needed.

[Minerat]

If you have lead sticking to the face use an unmelted bar of lead to removed it gently once the mould reaches casting temp. The hot lead on the mould will stick to the colder bar. I have had to do this when I cut the Sprue too soon and leave a smear on the top os the mould.

[azrednek]

Don't know it works on all Lee molds but it might be worth a try to get them clean. I got two found at a yard sale clean after trying solvents and a fingernail brush to no avail. I put them in boiling water and added non sudsing washing soda or dishwasher detergent. Rinse them immediately with hot water to remove any residual detergent. Same method I use to degrease small gun parts before cold bluing. Have no idea what kind of stubborn crud was in the aluminum molds but they came out clean.

[huntnman]

Are you smelting wheel weights before, melting them in your casting pot?

[Tom_in_AZ]

Are you smelting wheel weights before, melting them in your casting pot?

Wow, can’t believe I didn’t pick up on this.


Don’t do that!


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[vzerone]

Sawdust and anykind of wax is the best flux to use because the wax fluxes the metal and sawdust lets a good portion of the alloys that didn't blend and come to the top to reblend with your mix. Geargnasher when he was on this forum talked about that at length. Sawdust alone is not a do all, neither is wax.

If you heat the lead build up on your mold with a propane torch till it melts you should be able to rub most of it off with a cotton rag. Over vigorous use of a brass brush can and will ruin even a steel or iron mold. Something may be too hot either your pot or your mold or your casting tempo is too fast. Your sprue puddle should solidfy in about 10 seconds and this varies. By solidfy I mean after the puddle has gotten hard and changed colors a few times. If you notice the color when it first starts to get hard and then after it's fully harden they are different. When it first gets hard it is still very soft and will leave alloy streaks on the bottom of your sprue plate and top of the mold. One old trick to help keep those areas stay alloy free, which is not mentioned much anymore, is to scribble them up with a No. 2 lead pencil. You can even rub the lead pencil in the tapered sprue hole and top of the sprue plate so the sprue will jump off when you whack the sprue plate open. Don't scirbble the mold cavities.

I try to run my pot at about 720 degrees.

[tbobbo]

Sawdust and anykind of wax is the best flux to use because the wax fluxes the metal and sawdust lets a good portion of the alloys that didn't blend and come to the top to reblend with your mix. Geargnasher when he was on this forum talked about that at length. Sawdust alone is not a do all, neither is wax.

If you heat the lead build up on your mold with a propane torch till it melts you should be able to rub most of it off with a cotton rag. Over vigorous use of a brass brush can and will ruin even a steel or iron mold. Something may be too hot either your pot or your mold or your casting tempo is too fast. Your sprue puddle should solidfy in about 10 seconds and this varies. By solidfy I mean after the puddle has gotten hard and changed colors a few times. If you notice the color when it first starts to get hard and then after it's fully harden they are different. When it first gets hard it is still very soft and will leave alloy streaks on the bottom of your sprue plate and top of the mold. One old trick to help keep those areas stay alloy free, which is not mentioned much anymore, is to scribble them up with a No. 2 lead pencil. You can even rub the lead pencil in the tapered sprue hole and top of the sprue plate so the sprue will jump off when you whack the sprue plate open. Don't scirbble the mold cavities.

I try to run my pot at about 720 degrees.
I did use a pencil on top of the mold the first time I used it. I will try 2 stroke oil today.

[vzerone]

I did use a pencil on top of the mold the first time I used it. I will try 2 stroke oil today.

If you still have lead sticking even after the pencil work then like I said something is too hot or the tempo is too fast. Is your sprue plate tight fitting against the top of the mold? Is it laying flat?

If anything I may smoke them and I won't use a candle to do that, I use a butane lighter. Some say candles carry over wax in the soot. Think about how we clean our molds when new. The reason is to get the manufacturing oils off them. So why then would we put oil on them again? Now while you're digesting that you can take two stroke oil and put some on the bottom of the sprue plate and top of the mold then wipe them off with a rag!. i believe that is what you mean right?

[bigcountry022885]

If I had to guess you might of got some some zinc in there I have done it before and it will make you through some **** bullets


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[Larry Gibson]

Clean the lead and gunk off the mould with the propane torch as described above. Re-clean the mould with carb cleaner and then use the propane torch lightly over the surface including the sprue plate and cavities. Hold the mould so you can see the moisture (oil or whatever....it will be there) come to the surface and evaporate off. don't over heat just evaporate the moisture off. Swab out the cavities with Q-tips to remove any residue. Re-pencil the top of the mould and the sprue plate. If you use oil use very little and do not get it in the cavities. I do not smoke cavities and if properly cleaned never found a need to.

I suggest you start with a fresh batch of COWWs. Leave the SOWWs out. Smelt in a separate pot and use beeswax to flux thoroughly before removing any debri. The clips can be removed first though but don't skim any of the alloy off with them. When thoroughly fluxed and the debris is skimmed off add 2% tin. Then pour into ingots. I do not use sawdust. I have tried it but found it produced no better alloy, just made a bigger mess with more smoke and stink. Those that want to use it feel free, I just found it un-necessary is all.

Melt the old alloy out of your Lee pot if there's still some in there so you can start with the fresh alloy. Fill the pot so the melted alloy is about 1" from the top. Flux again with a small chunk of beeswax. As it melts I drop 2 wooden matches on top. That ignites and does away with most of the fumes. As it burns I flux/mix the alloy with a large spoon (GI mess kit) and when the alloy is fluxed and the flame is out I skim off the debris. Put the Lyman thermometer (it will wok fine) in the alloy with the clip holding the thermometer tip just off the bottom of the pot. The thermometer stem should not be touching the pot. Adjust the temperature of the alloy to 710 - 720 degrees. That is the temperature you want the alloy to stay at.

With the Lee pot as you cast and the alloy level lowers the temperature will drop. [Note; received a PM saying their experience was just the opposite. Could be as it's been a long time since I used a Lee pot. I used 2 of them before giving up on them. Could be some change has been made to the temp control since I used one. The point is, whether the temperature increases or decreases, is to keep the temperature as close to 710 - 720 degrees as possible. If this is done by adding alloy to keep the level in the pot to a +/- level or by adjusting the temperature level rheostat as the alloy level goes down doesn't matter. This doesn't matter what make of pot is used, just keep the temperature as even as possible.] I add the sprue back to the pot as I wait for the next to harden. I also suggest keeping ingots hand so you can add them to the pot to keep the alloy level and temperature fairly consistent. One or more ingots can be placed on the hot plate or top of the pot to pre-heat thus melting faster and not giving such a large drop in alloy temp when put in the pot. I will periodically flux the alloy when the oxidized alloy builds up on top of the alloy. It's not really necessary but I do it anyway when ingot(s) are added and waiting for the alloy to come back up to temp.

The mould can be pre-heated on a hot plate but again if not casting with the ambient temperature below 45 - 50 degrees I've not found a hot plate necessary. The mould temp is better maintained by adjusting the casting tempo. I lay my moulds across the top of the pot while it is coming to temperature. With my Lyman 4 cavity moulds I get excellent bullets within one or two pours. When casting I have the mould guide adjusted so the spout is about 3/4" above the sprue plate. The mould is inserted all the way under the pot until the cavity closest to me is under the pot spout. I then lift the lever and fill that cavity until the alloy "boils" back up out of the hole creating a generous sprue. the mould is slid toward me to the next cavity filling it in the same manner. sometimes I lower the handle stopping the flow of alloy between cavities but that is dependent on the mould and cavity size. When all the cavities are filled I hold the mould steady for a moment to let the sprue partially harden and then pull the mould out and set in on a piece of plywood. The previous cut sprue is then added to the pot while the fresh sprue hardens. When the fresh sprue has hardened/solidified. it is cut and the bullets dropped out, The sprue is closed and the mould is positioned under the pot for another fill. I then cast away and have very few rejects.

Casting for quality instead of quantity will result in a larger number of bullets per casting session because you will have less rejects. So remember;

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

In the Lee pot keep the alloy at a fairly consistent level to maintain a casting temperature of 710 - 720 degrees. When the alloy temp starts dropping below that add more ingots and wait for the alloy to come back up to temp.

[jimb16]

I see where some of you use graphite from a pencil to lube the sprue plate hole. I have a friend who does welding. and I got a soapstone stick from him to try. It works very well. I also use it to "coat" the ramp on my shot maker. When I do get a lead buildup on my mold, I too use a propane torch to heat the mold to the melting temp of the lead and wipe it off with a cotton terry towel. If it is extremely stubborn, I'll give it a swipe with fine steel wool.