Anyone tried Clays in 45 Long Colt?

[Just Duke]

Anyone tried Clays in 45 Long Colt?
I have given Trail Boss a good look see and it seems a little more pricey-er than the Clay. The velocity is a wee bit slow even for my tastes. Not sure how clean the Trail Boss burns but in a lever gun cleanliness is a must for me.
I plan on using the Lee 255 grainer.
TIA,
Duke

[rusty marlin]

It probably doesn't matter in a rifle, but I don't like Clays in big cases for the same reason I don't like 231 or bullseye. These powders are too "snappy" and don't give a nice smooth recoil. I much prefer American Select or IMR PB for reduced loads in the .44 mag and .45Colt.

[Just Duke]

Yes I shoot the Clays in 45 ACP and find it snappy.

[Willbird]

4.0 of bullseye was THE load for 45 acp target shooting for many many years, some will still debate that bullseye is more accurate than clays, BUT clays is cleaner. I never found 4.0 of bullseye or even 5.0 to be "snappy" in 45 acp.


Bill

[yondering]

Clays can be made to work OK, but it's a bit fast for the 45 Colt. Universal burns pretty clean (it says "clays technology" on the bottle) and would be a much better choice. Not as versatile as dirty old Unique, but still pretty good, especially for mild 45 Colt loads. (I'm guessing you want this for cowboy action shooting or something like it?)

I find the faster powders, like Clays, don't give the same level of accuracy, especially with middle weight bullets, compared to Unique and Universal.

Also, consider that a lot of the dirty gunk in your gun and brass can be a result of your boolit lube rather than your powder. If you are getting a film of soft sticky lube in your bore, chamber, and brass, it probably won't matter what kind of powder you use, it'll still be dirty. I find this to be very noticeable in my revolvers and semi-autos.

[Jack Stanley]

I've used eight point four of Universal Clays with the Lee two fifty-five and it seems to work fine for me .

Jack

[Heavy lead]

I use Clays in 12 gauge 7/8 target loads and love it, best powder and cleanest I've ever used, always thought it would be a good wadcutter load in the 38, but as I have plenty of Red Dot, I never used it. I use to use Universal Clays in 45 Colt and 44 Magnum a lot, but switched back to the "new" Unique when they cleaned it up, to be honest I like Unique a little better. I always had more unburned powder with the Universal than Unique, and I can buy it for less than 100 bucks per 8#. But IMO they're as close to the same application (not data) as you can get. Another thing I like about Unique is that it is bulkier IMO much easier to see a double charge. We sure have a lot of choices out there, don't we?

[timkelley]

I've been doing the same as Jack Stanley and it works pretty well for me.

[cohutt]

I'm sure most know, but just in case any casual CB browser wasn't aware:

Clays and Universal Clays (and International Clays as well) are different powders. Clays is fast, Universal Clays is a little slower.

Be careful that you don't use Universal Clays data with Clays, or you will certainly notice it to be "snappy" to say the least. Hodgdon doesn't use "Universal Clays" as a description in its load data tables anymore, it lists it as just "Universal" to avoid any confusion.

[jawjaboy]

Yep.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/jawjaboy/IM000157.jpg

[WildmanJack]

Duke,
I've been using Clays in 12 ga. loads for years, I have about 6 pounds of it and decided to use it in .45 colt, .45 ACP, and my .357 Gaucho's. I love it. it's very clean burning and ( don't want to sound cheap) but it last a looong time.
Good luck with it,
Jack

[Jack Stanley]

There ya go Duke , ya got the long and the short of it . What is nice about Unique and Universal is it can be used in so many things and do reasonably well in all of them . It might not be the best for all but for pushing lead at the pistol line (even using gallery rifle loads there ) I'm real happy with either . Now that Unique has gotton cheaper , I'll more than likely buy another pile of it to use .

Find the one ya like and get about fifty pounds of it ... I'll bet you can find a way to use it all .:-D

Jack

[compass will]

Duke, I been using clays for 45 colt in my puma 1892. I run the max load listed in the Hodgdon book. I also use the Lee 255 grain 6 hole mold and what ever that harder orange lube is RCBS (I think) sells when I size the boolits.

Results:

Out of 4 lever action silhouette matches this year, in the A class, I won all 4 matches, 3 matches I hit 10 pigs in a row. I advanced to AA in the last match and missed first place by 1 shot. This is with the stock (booring) sights on the 1892.
Everyone tells me I should be going to the state match the weekend after labor Day but my wallet says different. Next year I am going to add a Marbles tang sight to at least the 1892.

Using the max load I get less blowback on the shells because it is almost enough power to make the brass expand to fit the chamber. I figure they make this gun in 455 also so the 45 colt loads I run should be ok. No leading has ever been found.

You just have to be careful while reloading since I think a 45 case can hold over 3 max loads of clays.

In my wheel guns I run trailboss only because I need to produce so much more ammo for cowboy action matches, and it's easy with trail boss to watch for double loads while loading.

Hope this helps :Fire:

PS: A bottle of clays is good for like 1400 colt 45 loads, it seems to last a long time.

[runfiverun]

you only use like 4.5-5.0 of the clays and can use the 160 t 255 gr boolits
with the same load gr's.
and clays wil do you a good cowboy load for your shot-gun events.

[targetshootr]

Universal takes care of 95% of my shooting. With a 250 gr 45 I use from 8 gr to 10 gr and you could probably go up to 12 gr but check your manual. Clays is ok but a little fast. The burn rate of Univeral is almost identical to Unique but cleaner to use.

[Just Duke]

[smilie=6:

[Rocky Raab]

I use both Clays and Universal. Clays lasts so long that I still have one of the two pounds I got from the first production lot. I don't use it in everything, but I use it regularly, so that batch from the early 80s is more than economical!

Universal is so close to Unique that it is indeed a cleaner-burning substitute - although NOT with exact charge levels. My supply is a wee fraction faster than Unique.

The powder that's becoming my new favorite for mid-range loads, however, is American Select. It measures beautifully, burns exceptionally clean, is accurate and consistent. It has a burn rate very close to Green Dot, but isn't a "fluffy" flake. The kernels are almost brittle, in fact. Even better, it is almost always on the shelf and costs a bit less than others.

[prs]

Harrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I reckon I have a different tolerance for cleanliness in a lever action. My Marlin '94 sees a steady diet of real black powder under 250gr PRS boolits. I can shoot hundreds of rounds without cleaning or wiping or such and not loose accuracy. I also load with Unique for my son who has similar rifle and he maybe has cleaned it a time or two, I dunno; but he can shoot flies out of the sorgum off the back wall with the best of 'em.

prs

[Rocky Raab]

Clean burning is like the olive in my martini: it's nice, but not the main thing I sought. Most of the recent powders are clean-burning, but what attracts me to them are their other qualities.

[35remington]

Agree pretty much with your sentiments, and have used Am. Select myself, but don't you find it to be a rather large flake?

I limit the loads I shoot with it to "not too light" so my metering consistency doesn't go bugger all in something like a .380 size charge with the measuring system I'm using. Cavity diameter is my issue. I would assume it would be absolutely ducky in the larger charges used in a 45 Colt as long as they too were not super light. Even quite light in the 45 Colt probably wouldn't present any measuring problems for me.

Have to try that.

So far excellent in 45 ACP, have tried it in lighter charges in 38 Spl and don't find it all that suitable there. And shotgun works well. So far that's all I've used it in.

[Rocky Raab]

Yes, AmSel flakes are largish, but they flow well. I use a digital dispenser, so measuring ease isn't an issue for me. I mention it because it is an issue for other folks.

[The Virginian]

Try 4.6-5.0 grains of Clays with a 250-255 lead bullet in .45 Colt. Very clean burning even with otherwise smokey lubes. Pressure is low and so is velocity around 650-700 fps.

[DragoonDrake]

My CAS load is the LEE 452-255-RF over 5.0gr of Clays. I use it in both handguns and the rifle and have never had a problem.

[fredj338]

For CAS, I have used ReDot for years. About the same burn rate w/ good loft. I haven't tried Clays in the 45colt, but in the 45acp, it is prone to pressure spiking at the top end & the top end isn't all that high a vel.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

I've used Clays for 45 Colt, 44 Mag, 38 Spl and the 12 ga. As its the powder specified or the 3/4 oz youth load, I just use it for everything. Need a new 4# jug.
CF

[NHlever]

Try 4.6-50 grains of Clays with a 250-255 lead bullet in .45 Colt. Very clean burning even with otherwise smokey lubes. Pressure is low and so is velocity around 650-700 fps.


What kind of velocity do you get with that 50.0 grain load? :D :D You might want to edit that if you still can.

[bslim]

Has anybody tired 5Grns of Red dot??

[MtGun44]

Be careful. I have not looked at .45 Colt, but in .45 ACP it is not possible (according
to Hodgdon, who should know) to make full velocity with a 230 boolit with
Clays. It maxes out on pressure first. I suspect it would behave similarly in
the .45 Long Colt, esp with heavy boolits.

Bill

[geargnasher]

Duke, what you want is what a bunch of folks really want, but doesn't yet exist. It's called Unobtanium Clays, has a burn rate similar to HS6, combusts cleanly in the 12-16K CUP pressure range, and has a VMD of about .2000, yet meters like water. Oh, and costs about $16/lb.

Gear

[BorderBrewer]

My favorite plinking load in my 45 Colt Vaquero's is RCBS 45-250-FN over 4.2 grains of Clays. Light recoil you can shoot all day, accurate, and very clean burning.

[44 WCF]

Yep, I've been shooting ever since neighbor gave me 8lb, or is 7 lbs in 8lb can, can't remember. Anyway using loads straight from Hodgdon it has been very satisfactory, I dont notice the snappy in the my Marlin 24" CB or Red Hawk but in Vaquero it is rather distinct. But clean,,only have 5 lbs to use up............in 44 Mag with 240 gr SAECO TC GC it has been rather unbelievable in my Marlin CB......

[The Virginian]

Sorry guys 5.0 grains of Clays for .45 Colt....not 50!!! Eeek!!!!!!! That would be a load you would fire once!

[NHlever]

Sorry guys 5.0 grains of Clays for .45 Colt....not 50!!! Eeek!!!!!!! That would be a load you would fire once!

:D :D :D
Yea, that was a wild guess on my part too.

[dverna]

Clays is a great powder for CAS. You can load light 12 ga and all the Pistol calibers. Easy to double charge in pistol though.

Don

[The Virginian]

I like it in .45 Auto-Rim meant for modified .455 Webley Mark VIs that have had their cylinders shaved to take .45 ACP (Never shoot .45 ACP pressure loads in these guns as it is akin to a proof load and it will ruin them over time) or .45 AR. I use a 250-255 grain bullet in a Starline .45 Auto-Rim case, Remington large pistol primer with 3.5 grains of Clays. Soft shooting and the velocity is about 650 fps and 12,000 CUP. It is easy on the brass, gun and the shooter.

[Rocky Raab]

Yes, AmSel has largish flakes, for sure. I use a digital dispenser (old RCBS and now a Hornady) so "difficult to measure" is a completely moot point for me. I'll concede that flake size might be an issue for anybody using an old-fashioned manual measure. (Rocky grins a bit.)

[TXGunNut]

Went looking for a fresh can of Unique one cold day in 1998, couldn't find any so I bought Universal. Metered better, burned cleaner, haven't looked back. I load 7.5 grns under a Keith style 255 for a BP equivalent hunting and plinking load in my Ruger.